Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: SAS_KID on May 20, 2005, 08:07:29 PM
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Can anybody help me with tips on evading enemies with an F4F-4 and what should be my minimun speed in performing evasive manuevers?:confused:
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keep your eyes on, whats going on, outside your plane. you have to know the enemy is there, before you can evade him.
learn ACMs. go to the Training Arena and ask if any trainers can help you with learning ACMs.
as for the F4F-4 try to keep it in the 200-300 mph band. in hard manuvers, it'll quickly lose speed. try to regain as much as you can after the manuver.
it'll manuver all the way down to stall speed. but get too slow, its a sitting duck. learning the ACMs will teach you to manuver and keep speed from falling too much.
another thing is, what is the enemy flying? knowing the enemies planes capabilities, strenghts, and weakness.
and fly to exploit their weakness. know thy enemy.
I could go on and on, but I have to go now. hope this helps some, anyway.
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Thank you Ill keep those in mind and also if anybody knows what is the most manuverable Corsair medium to low alt?
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The most "manuverable" Corsair is the F4U-1. It is the lightest of the Corsairs and is the fastest on the deck.
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Ok thank you.:) O wait which one?
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Originally posted by Patches1
The most "manuverable" Corsair is the F4U-1. It is the lightest of the Corsairs and is the fastest on the deck.
Excluding the perked F4U-4, which is quite a bit faster everywhere.
For that matter, I would consider the F4U-4 the most maneuverable Corsair. Its far greater power; meaning acceleration, speed and climb, give it a much greater overall maneuverability than the F4U-1, which is far more limited in vertical maneuvering and cannot sustain a prolonged fight with the F4U-4 on anything close to even terms.
My regards,
Widewing
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While I agree with Widewing about the advantages of the -4 the -1 sure handles sweet when it comes to doing a little bit of everything.
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I'm assuming he doesnt have enough perks to be "manuevering" a F4U4 around so I would say F4U-1 is the right answer.
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although widewing is right, i think we should take out the F4u-4 from the equation.
no disrespect towards SAS_KID but it will only confuse him.
SAS_KID. about the F4u \ F4f
those are 2 completely different planes.
the F4u is the corsair
and the F4f is the wildcat.
hope it helps clear out the fog :)
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Lol,
Reminds me of the Saturday Night Live skit with Gilda Radner as "Emily Litilla" confused about why everyone was concerned about "violins" on television.
Regards,
Malta
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I'll add 1 thing to this...the F4F is one of those planes that requires a plan going in. It's not going to keep E or get it back very easily so awareness of both the E state and plane capabilities of the "other guy" is essential. It's an excellent angles fighter and like all american iron can generate massive amounts of E if it has alt to work with. Ideally you want to engage with enough E to force the fight and then use the planes greatest disadvantage (its E bleed) as its greatest advantage...you can work wonders vs spitties and nikki's but only if you are aggresive and fly a smart opener...if you havent bagged em in 20 seconds you probably wont live another 10...if you happen to have some alt...drop the nose to gain E and rinse and repeat...
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Until you're quite familure with the american turn fighters I suggest you consider the FM2 over the F4F. They are pretty much the same plane but the FM2 has a better engine.
Turning success in the american planes is a game of energy manipulation, and this is why the wildcats are so dangerous. To take advantage of being slower requires a fairly intimate knowlege of reversals, however. This is why you don't see many f4fs in the MA. I've always done very well in the FM2 as it's awsome turn rate (it's the american zeke) makes it a beast if you set up your reversals. SpitVs are your usual prey in this, as their E retention makes it pretty much impossible to shake you if you set up a good merge.
Aside from trying to sucker people in with reversals this plane is a solid attacker. Despite being very slow by MA standards it's a pretty decent diver that can handle high speeds. Dive down on your prey like a mad man and cut throttle while turning to very quickly become near co-E. The E bleed of the F4F means you should be able to pull for a shot no matter how hard your opponent turns so long as you anticipate his moves. When you're not moving in for a kill keep a light touch on the stick. This plane isn't so different from the F6F E retention wise until you pull too hard and run out of speed.
Overall this is just a different balance of turnfighter from the rest of the herd, but just a turnfighter none the less.
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Roger that you guys thank you.:aok
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[Shameless Discontent Trolling ON]
What 'E' management?
Just pop a notch or two in any US plane and you'll outturn everything in both instantaneous and sustained turns, except the best of turners - Spit5, Hurris, Zekes.. etc.
[Shameless Discontent Trolling OFF]
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You feel you get out turned by planes that shouldnt out turn you? You get out turned by say P51s in a F4F?
Reason is simple. You are turning they are manouvering.
Turning is the safest way to a quick death.
By using ACMs one can kill a tight turner (Zekke, Hurricane, Wildcat, Spitfire MkV) that turns in less then 20 sec after the merge flying a P47. Its extreamly easy to do and works 95% of the time. All you do is you do a Immelman after the merge instead of a flat turn. If he flat turns he is dead.
People look to tight turning planes for manouverability and then use them for flat turning and die all the time.
All your manouvers should always be both horizontal and vertical in motion.
Your flight path should NOT be "follow the path of the enemy". You should always work on getting angles on the enemy. Meaning you do your own manouvers. Know what shot you are looking for and constantly work to get it. Manouver your self into position for *the* shot, dont turn your self into position for *a* shot.
Feel the plane and be creative. Learn to feel where the plane can go from where you are. Manouvering is not just using the basic ACMs (Immelman, Loop, Spit-S, Roll, Barrell Roll, High YoYo, Low YoYo) as they are but combing them. To reverse back on someone you might have to combine for example a half Barrell Roll with a low YoYo or a Low YoYO with an Immelman.
Finally learn to use your flaps.
Tex
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The Immelmann turn
http://www.furball.warbirdsiii.com/krod/ACM-immelman.html
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I fly the FM2 a lot. Well actually mostly. I am no where near being a good pilot but I feel I am getting better.
You have to have a plan. Know who is around you. If you blow the merge in a FM2 mostly you are now; way in the hole. Sometimes you can dig yourself out sometimes not.
The strengths of the FM2 are it can dive and not easily compress and you can turn like the dickens... but only for so long and you do not have the power to regain lost alt from a flat turn or anything like it. you have to use the vertical and turns in combination.
An anolgy that is helping me get a feel for this... E is like a bank account.. flat turns just empty it ( a turn basically in a circle) up and down turns empty and replace the account. never ever refilling it all the way but. you do not run out of cash so fast this way. If you manage your account right you should still have some money in the account (Energy) at the end of the fight you can use this to disengage and refill your account by regaining alt.
Like any analogy this has holes but it is helping me.
Running in an FM2- F4-f is a must early.... early other planes can just run you down. learning when to fold em is one of the most imprtant skills to develop in this plane.
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Originally posted by Widewing
Excluding the perked F4U-4, which is quite a bit faster everywhere.
For that matter, I would consider the F4U-4 the most maneuverable Corsair. Its far greater power; meaning acceleration, speed and climb, give it a much greater overall maneuverability than the F4U-1, which is far more limited in vertical maneuvering and cannot sustain a prolonged fight with the F4U-4 on anything close to even terms.
My regards,
Widewing
I agree with you up to the point of a plain down & dirty turn as hard as you can dog fight under 10k, the f4u-1 will beat the f4u-4. The -1 will turn inside the -4 quite easily & this can be used to adv regaurding energy management. Providing you are both same speed & alt & simular fuel load out. The -4's fuel consumpition is also a serious consideration. Under 10k & 50% gas or less the -1 is a bad little skooter. & it earns perkies like crazy :-)
imho chrispy
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Axiom #1: There is no substitute for stick time. The more you get the better you get.
Axiom #2: There is no substitute for quality stick time. If you don't know why the plane isn't doing what you think it should be doing just get with a trainer (in the Training Arena) and let him bring you along.
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There is only 1 problem I don't know any ACM's besides the Immenel or whatever turn and im not subscribed:( . For I don't know where to get the coupon and it costs way to much for me and my parents.
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Originally posted by Crispy
I agree with you up to the point of a plain down & dirty turn as hard as you can dog fight under 10k, the f4u-1 will beat the f4u-4. The -1 will turn inside the -4 quite easily & this can be used to adv regaurding energy management. Providing you are both same speed & alt & simular fuel load out. The -4's fuel consumpition is also a serious consideration. Under 10k & 50% gas or less the -1 is a bad little skooter. & it earns perkies like crazy :-)
imho chrispy
I suppose that I have flown 200+ 1v1 duels flying the F4U-1 over the past year. I like the F4U-1, but the F4U-4 owns it. Why? Because the F4U-4 simply takes the fight into the vertical and the F4U-1 cannot compete.
It's not about turning, it's about E management, and very few planes have the excess power of the F4U-4. A decent F4U-4 driver will simply take his plane where the F4U-1 cannot go, establish an advantage and break down the F4U-1. Getting into a flat turning duel is silly, why surrender one's advantage?
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
I suppose that I have flown 200+ 1v1 duels flying the F4U-1 over the past year. I like the F4U-1, but the F4U-4 owns it. Why? Because the F4U-4 simply takes the fight into the vertical and the F4U-1 cannot compete.
It's not about turning, it's about E management, and very few planes have the excess power of the F4U-4. A decent F4U-4 driver will simply take his plane where the F4U-1 cannot go, establish an advantage and break down the F4U-1. Getting into a flat turning duel is silly, why surrender one's advantage?
My regards,
Widewing
I agree with you 100% but they ussually don't take it in the vertical at least not right away they will turn hard once or twice and thats all the -1 needs. If the guy in the -4 is B&Zing and keeps his energy adv he will own the -1 but if he turns hard a couple of times he will loose E considerable faster than the -1. I am just saying if you are going to get down & dirty down low you are better off in the -1. Giving consideration to cost, fuel consumption, and the ability to turn. They will turn with the -1 hard once or twice, relize they can't stay with it and then pull vertical...then there flabergasted how the -1 stayed with them.
On another note Widewing, Do you think the acceleration is right on the hog? I guess if I had any complaints on the hog it is it acceleration, it seems like just every plane in the game can out accelerate it initially.
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The FM-2 has 150 more horsepower than the F4F-4 and is also 500 pounds lighter. It's performance closely approximates the earlier F4F-3. It's turning ability comes close to, but does not equal, that of the Zero.
If you can sucker a late war plane into a dogfight you can eat them alive.
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Again I won't really be able to use your guyzez info. to the best in the MA for I don't know where to get the coupons and my parents can't afford it.