Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Replicant on May 22, 2005, 03:18:10 AM
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Interesting website of the origins of driving on the left-hand-side and the right-hand-side of the road.
http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/driving%20on%20the%20left.htm
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I really hate shifting with my left hand.
Do you think that because most U.S. cavalrymen wore their sidearms cross draw is why we drive on the correct side of the road?
did we whup the brits because they were still thinking sword era?
How much does it cost the uk to continue with this madness? Allmost every Healey built was built with the steering on the correct side.
lazs
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“Visitors are informed that in the United Kingdom traffic drives on the left-hand side of the road. In the interests of safety, you are advised to practise this in your country of origin for a week or two before driving in the UK.”
I think I'll hop on the expressway for some sunday morning UK driving practice.
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Are the shifting pattern and pedals also changed on a wrong sided car?
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Originally posted by Monk
Are the shifting pattern and pedals also changed on a wrong sided car?
No.
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I dont like to offend anyone so i always drive in the middle unless im drunk.. then i use both sides.
I drive liberal style!
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Originally posted by Monk
Are the shifting pattern and pedals also changed on a wrong sided car?
But the windscreen wipers are normally arranged to park the other way and are positioned differently so as to give the driver's side the best sweep. However SOME car makers in the past could not be arsed to make this mod. Porsche was one. Even the 1960s/70s Austin/Morris 1100/1300 had the wipers on the wrong way, leading to a huge unswept area on the driver's side.
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I'd rather we drove on the left, steering wheel on the right in America. It makes it a lot easier to lean out the window and squeeze off a few at the guy who just cut you off. Unless your left handed.
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Thank you.
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I used to drive 100 ton Euclid haul trucks in a quarry. We had to drive on the left with right hand drive for safety in case of a collission and so we could see the edge of the cliff better. It was quite an unsettling experience until you got used to it.
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when I drove in england it was a mess... I didn't really understand the signage and the streets/roads/highways are freeking NARROW.. they have a 4" shoulder on the roads instead of a 10 foot one and it rains constantly and after the 4" shoulder is a usually a stone wall put up to fend off vikings or some such..
Shifting with my left and going into the merry go round called a "roundabout" while trying to read the quaint little signs.... I tried to pick a gear to stay in so that I could concentrate on all the other crap.
Their roads explain the no muscle car thing but their weather sure makes a mockery of their weather sealing in their old roadsters.
lazs
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LOL Lazs! ^ :lol
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LOL, try taking an 18-wheeler off the interstate anywhere in New England, Ohio or Pennsylvania. The roads were made for horse and buggy and just paved over in the last 50 years. Most of them barely have 8 foot lanes and none of them have any shoulder at all.
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Shifting with my left and going into the merry go round called a "roundabout" while trying to read the quaint little signs.... I tried to pick a gear to stay in so that I could concentrate on all the other crap.
Lazs, even our women can manage roundabouts and gears and signs at the same time.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Their roads explain the no muscle car thing but their weather sure makes a mockery of their weather sealing in their old roadsters.
I always wondered why there were muscle cars in the US, as there was a nationwide speed limit of 55mph when I was there in the early 80s. Most of the cars I saw had speedometers calibrated to only 85mph.
The straight roads and easymode turning went a long way to explain the dead steering/sloppy suspension I found on most of the cars I drove there.
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You needed to be here in the 60's, beetle...
As for american cars... Most American car's made in the mid to late 70's were pretty bad...
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8' wide roads!! I woulda killed for a 8' wide road in limey land.
I wonder how well these "women" do on our freeway system in LA traffic while shifting with their right hand and staying in the right lane and reading our traffic signs?
80 mph? where I live the soccer moms in mini vans will drive over the top of you if you slow to 80mph. They will flip you off with the hand not holding the cell phone too.
I guess our roads could be called "easy mode" for being wide and mostly straight but... driving through the mountains through all the turns at high speed is a lot different than the 40mph creeping around I seen everyone doing in england... there were only a few freeways and they were heavily patroled by cops and it was a monsoon most of the time anyway... I never seen anyone doing what we would call "speeding" here. They were all driving very slowly everywhere I went.
lazs
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after I stepped in front of a car when I was a kid in Tynemouth England, my parents had my vision checked when I couldn't read a license plate from so many feet away. The doc told them I was legally blind and needed glasses ( I had told them that a year earlier in New Orleans but my A/B report card from catholic school mislead them - I could read fine)
they felt bad, thinking I almost got run over cause I couldn't see - I thought it was because the car came from the wrong direction - never used to looked to the right before stepping off the curb ..
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Originally posted by lazs2
I guess our roads could be called "easy mode" for being wide and mostly straight but... driving through the mountains through all the turns at high speed is a lot different than the 40mph creeping around I seen everyone doing in england... there were only a few freeways and they were heavily patroled by cops and it was a monsoon most of the time anyway... I never seen anyone doing what we would call "speeding" here. They were all driving very slowly everywhere I went.
lazs
depends where you are i guess, i have to drive into london every day along the major N/S motorway, traffic in the outside lane tends to stay around 90mph, often raising to 100 or more.
on the normal roads traffic tends to flow about 10mph faster than the speed limit. so in 30 area's it would, as you say, be around 40mph.
its the small country lanes that are national speed limit that are the real killers here.
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Originally posted by lazs2
8' wide roads!! I woulda killed for a 8' wide road in limey land.
LOL Lazs! - one like this?
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lane1.jpg)
I drove down this yesterday. Yes, it IS a two-way road, and sometimes I have had to back up when coming head to head with another vehicle. Farm vehicles along here and/or horses are a high possibility. The general rule is that the driver coming downhill gives way to uphill traffic and is the one who's supposed to back up. Not everyone is aware of this convention, however.
Lazs, a good driving test is to do what many of us Brits have done - drive in a hired car in a large city, on the side you're not used to, where the signs are in a foreign language. We'll make a driver of you yet! :cool:
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Beetle, that pic is nice and makes me think of even more about how interesting Britain is. (even though to you it's just a normal pic)
I hope to be able to go to Britain some day. Politics aside, I really love Britain and always have.
When I think of Britain, I think of so much history and culture.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I dont like to offend anyone so i always drive in the middle unless im drunk.. then i use both sides.
I drive liberal style!
My sentiments exactly Nilsen....wish I'd have read this first though cause I tried it the drunk way and the results were less than pleasant.;)
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NUKE! Yes you'd like England, I'm sure.
Those stone walls that Lazs spoke of - designed to keep out the vikings - are actually called "dry stone" walls. Here's another pic - they are very common in northern England, particularly the Yorkshire Dales where this pic was taken. The stones are laid one on top of another, with no cement or mortar. Many were built before the days of cement mixers. ;) This road is more than 5 feet wide, so of course it's a two-way road. :p
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/drystone.jpg)
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Narrow roads. There are plenty here too. Boreens we call them. You know they're narrow when when your wing mirror keeps brushing the undergrowth. I remember overhearing an American warning another about the risk of rubbing off your wing mirror on the stone walls. How I laughed until shortly afterward I managed to do just that. :(
Hill roads are the best, you can lurch along at 60 miles an hour or so from crest to crest like a speedboat. One mistake and you plunge off the road and into the bog never to be seen again.
Actually that would be speeding. The speed limit on roads like that in the picture is 50 mph. Used to be 60. I believe it still is in Britain ???? Even so driving at 50 on a road like that is insane.
The other day I drove down a road with a 60 limit (100 Km We've gone metric). At one point there was a tight right curve with humpback bridge followed by tight left. Right before it stood a sign with a 100km limit.
I always get a sore left arm when I try to drive at the speed limit on those roads. Not from driving but from the wife punching me :lol
(http://www.oconnors.com/images/0094_LandscapeCo_Wicklow.jpg)
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yep... those are the walls but they were even closer to the pavement in a lot of the places I went.
I don't know about the driving test thing but I drove rush hour london traffic and all over the island... 1200 miles worth.. I didn't wreck anything but felt very claustraphobic.
furball... what I mean is... everyone around here drives fast and... accelerates very fast. Impromtu drag races everywhere... You go to sleep on a quiet night listening to flowmasters at 6 grand and 3rd gear rubber. I never seen anyone in england actually getting on it. Everyone accelerated like gas was gold.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... those are the walls but they were even closer to the pavement
You mean the road. The pavement is what pedestrians walk on!
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curious, what side of the bed do most of you married brit bananas sleep on?
i drive on the right but sleep on the left side of da bed.
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beetle... pedestrians walk on the sidewalk and.... it is not paved it is made of cement.
lazs
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lazs, there's no such thing as a sidewalk in Britain. It's a pavement, and sometimes (often) there isn't one.
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@CPXX
Got any good pix of Irish road racing?
I think Laz would like it :)
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(http://www.pacemakerpressintl.com/SPORT/BIKES/2000%20SEASON/images/prevs/prev14.jpg)
Ok but those guys are nuts. Has anyone got a link to a video of a lap of the Isle of Man TT?
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In late 1987 I spent a month in Britain. My sister and I drove all around the perimeter of the island and also darted around the Lake District and Whales. The entire nation seemed to be closed for the season, so we just drove and drove. The youth hostels were closed except for London and Edinborough, so we even slept in our car. Growing up in Alaska, I was quite used to little crappy rough roads, so I thought. The roads in Britain were well maintained, but extremely narrow for cars of any size. I remember clipping the hedges with my side mirror, while oncoming lorries’ (big trucks) side mirrors seemed to pass just over my other side mirror. What would have been a normal two lane city street in Alaska, would work as a three lane in Britain. It was not uncommon for both lanes to move to the side so that the center could be used for passing, even on corners. I never saw a Brit panic when things looked hairy; they just found room and squeezed in wherever they could. I squealed around thousands of corners and didn’t seem to be going much faster than the local traffic and certainly was never harassed by bobbies.
There was this one time on Christmas day though; we came to a good sized round-about at about 5 A.M. I was making numerous laps around it while my sister was trying to interpret the crappy British signs (you never knew if the sign was indicating the name of the road, number of the road, the next major city, minor village, a creek, or even some old limey’s farm. Just for fun they would abbreviate words occasionally). Some roundabouts, like this one, were the junction of more than two roads. It was dark and there was no traffic. I was having a ball, working the car from a powered under steer to a four wheel drift, back and forth, for several minutes. Headlights approached from a distance and I contemplated toning down my skid pad test to a minor squeal. As I squealed by the approaching car I saw that it was the local constablemobile. They had seen me make many laps on their approach; it was obvious that I was up to no good. I turned off on the next exit since my sister had yet to figure out which road we needed. The constable followed and pulled me over. As he approached I asked him if I was on the road to wherever and explained the problem with the signage. He confirmed that I was on the correct road, apologized for the signage and wished my sister and I a merry Christmas. No mention of my significant speeding or tire squealing.
You never know what to expect on British country roads. You can be whizzing along at a good speed, pop over a little hill and find a sudden 90 degree turn with a 10 foot inside radius, right in front of you.
We found a one lane mountain road in the Lake District that was 30 degrees steep, not percent, but actual degrees. I found a few places where I was able to catch air on hilly country roads; when we did I would usually turn around and get some air a few more times in each direction. I pretty much destroyed the underside of our Fiesta on one of them; gotta love them rentals.
On the average, I would say that Brits are much better drivers than Americans. They have to be. There’s no room to screw up. Brits also seemed to be much more alert and considerate than American drivers. If you were the 10th in line at a traffic light, you could expect to be rolling in just a few seconds after the light changed. In the US drivers are always dorking around with their stereos, food, kids, cigarettes or whatever to notice that the light has changed and cars are moving. If you are the 10th in line at a traffic light in the US, two or three drivers will probably flake out and cost everyone several seconds each. We have to have such long light just to get the 10th car through.
On the big freeways drivers used the passing lane for passing. There was a 65 mph lane, a 75 mph lane, and a passing lane. Drivers didn’t just drive at whatever speed they wanted in any-ol lane. With the exception of congestion near London, you could always pass in the passing lane. In the US, I don’t think that most drivers are even aware of the passing lane concept.
eskimo
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Originally posted by cpxxx
(http://www.pacemakerpressintl.com/SPORT/BIKES/2000%20SEASON/images/prevs/prev14.jpg)
Ok but those guys are nuts. Has anyone got a link to a video of a lap of the Isle of Man TT?
I have lots of videos on the TT, they release one every year well worth the $$ simply amazing racing to watch and the bike camera shots are incredible. By far the greatest track/racing event for bikes in the world. Love to give it a go one day.
Lazs, driving on the left or right side of the road makes no difference pros or cons. It's just a matter of what your use to.
I loved the time I was there though touring all over those backroads in the UK on a bike, especially around the lake district,Scotland and Wales.
...-Gixer
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Thx CPXX :)
There's only one real road race in Britain; at New Brighton; just out side of Liverpool.
I've raced it once; and it was a lot of fun; but then I was only on a 250.
I'd hate to be on a litre plus bike in an Irish road race; even the best tyres get only so much grip on fresh cow slime :)
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Originally posted by Seeker
I've raced it once; and it was a lot of fun; but then I was only on a 250.
250's are heaps of fun though, some of the most fun races I've ever had have been on 250's. Friend who rides with us and also races at speedway has an Aprilia 250 and we can barely keep him in sight when the road gets really tight which is quite often here in NZ.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by beet1e
LOL Lazs! - one like this?
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lane1.jpg)
I'm off work tomorrow. I'll take a few shots of the local county roads here in Texas. They look a lot like that.
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QUOTE]Originally posted by Seeker
Thx CPXX :)
There's only one real road race in Britain; at New Brighton; just out side of Liverpool.
I've raced it once; and it was a lot of fun; but then I was only on a 250.
I'd hate to be on a litre plus bike in an Irish road race; even the best tyres get only so much grip on fresh cow slime :) [/QUOTE]
They do clear up the fresh cow slime, I think. I never raced but I've ridden the same roads on my old 350LC. Character building is how I would describe it. There is nothing quite as terrifying as going into a corner too fast with walls on either side. You really do scream like a woman :D
I'm just not brave enough to road race. One mistake = instant death. I did ride around Brands Hatch. That was terrifying. I mean I was really scared but I couldn't bring myself to slow down even when I went straight on at Druids and cut across the grass at Surtees not once not twice but three times. I survived but fell off my roadbike at five miles an hour on an oil patch on the way back to London. :(
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Originally posted by Gixer
I have lots of videos on the TT, they release one every year well worth the $$ simply amazing racing to watch and the bike camera shots are incredible. By far the greatest track/racing event for bikes in the world. Love to give it a go one day.snip
...-Gixer
Yeah, 30 years ago when I was young dumb and fulla cum I saw that race as the most desirable way to ride a motorcycle, and wished I could go.
While I was stationed in Colorado I bought a BSA 441 Victor Special, and used to take rides on the weekend in the foothills and mountains, looking for similar problems and imagining I was there. Those were some fun rides :)
culero
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nothing wrong with driving on the left side of the road unless you care to sell cars or buy cars. Then it costs you money... nothing wrong with it unless you wish to travel and drive in other countries.
None of this however explains the contraryness of brit motorcycles shifting and braking on the wrong side.
I have heard that the isle of mann roads are granite based and have very good traction even in the rain.
I never raced motorcycles except a summer doing TT... sort of a combo of motocross and flattrack. I used a 40" trumpet and the stupid shift set up damn near ruined me a couple of times then and later when I used a normal setup.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
None of this however explains the contraryness of brit motorcycles shifting and braking on the wrong side.
Why do you consider it the "wrong side" there's no right or wrong just left or right. I've riden all sorts of bikes with all sorts of breaking/gear change arrangements. But I've never slagged any as wrong just characteristic and enjoyed riding them all very much.
...-Gixer
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yeah sure.... only one country makes em that way and the rest of the world does it another but there is no right or wrong?
Why do it at all? Seems they are doing it knowing it is wrong.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Why do it at all? Seems they are doing it knowing it is wrong.
lazs
Why do revolvers revolve clockwise instead of anticlockwise? Why,What... What if your aunty had balls she would be your uncle?
It's only wrong in your opinion to other it seems right. And to me there's no right or wrong when it comes to bikes. Just good and not so good.
...-Gixer
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yeah sure.... only one country makes em that way
Um, the world's largest car producing country drives on the left.
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Originally posted by Nashwan
Um, the world's largest car producing country drives on the left.
Japan?
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Originally posted by lazs2
yeah sure.... only one country makes em that way and the rest of the world does it another but there is no right or wrong?
Why do it at all? Seems they are doing it knowing it is wrong.
lazs
Actualy; it was only Yank manufacturers that had left hand changes; until the USA made it law as a thinly disguised protectionist measure for HD. But with the USA being such a dominant market; bike manufactures shifted to the left side en masse due to product rationalisations.
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nashwan... the worlds largest car manufactrurer drives on the right (the U.S.) we still make more cars here than japan does. But...
japan does not make motorcycles that have shifters on the wrong side.
gixer... you know as much about revolvers as you know about the U.S. thanks for trying to pander to me tho..
The reason that revolvers rotate the way they do has nothing to do with choice. Some rotate clockwise and some counterclockwise... the reason for either is mechanical. Depending on how you build your lockwork... the "hand" (cylinder turning thingie) will have to be on one side of the bolt (center of the cylinder) or the other. viewed from the back... if the hand is on the right of the bolt... the cyl will rotate counterclockwise.. If it is on the left it will rotate clockwise.
lazs
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Japan has been producing more cars han the US for a decade or more. (And it's now about 2 to 1)
The US still has a lead when you count in commercial vehicles.
The reason that revolvers rotate the way they do has nothing to do with choice. Some rotate clockwise and some counterclockwise... the reason for either is mechanical. Depending on how you build your lockwork... the "hand" (cylinder turning thingie) will have to be on one side of the bolt (center of the cylinder) or the other. viewed from the back... if the hand is on the right of the bolt... the cyl will rotate counterclockwise.. If it is on the left it will rotate clockwise.
Which of course means the manufacturer has the choice which side to put the hand.
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Nooo... it means that different types of lockworks (there are patents) need to function differently. If your sideplate if on the right then the lockwork has to function a certain way same for the bottom etc. it is a matter of function.
Waht you are trying to equate it to is a tiny little island with a trickle of bad motorcycles whose only purpose in putting the shifter on the right is contrarryness... there is no funtional reason. It would be just as easy....easier.... to do it right.
A good revolver example would be the 1873 Colt single action.. the ejector is on the wrong side of the gun for right handed people. It has never changed...
The U.S. produces the most vehicles for driving on the roads... that is what we are taliking about right?
lazs
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Normally I would argue any point such as this with lazs...but riding my little motorcycle everyday to work makes me want to respond.
Lazs...are you saying the shift on these bikes is on the right side and the brake is on the left? That is bizarre....and freaking dangerous. I must concur with Senior Lazs....it is WRONG. :p
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no curval... shift is on the right and rear brake is on the left.
It is dangerous to have it that way.. if you are used to the majority of bikes you will allmost allways hit the shifter hard in a panic stop and the real wheel will probly lock. It could easily (and has) cause an accident that is completely avoidable by standarizing.
It is much like changing the order of the clutch and bhrake pedal in a car. there is no reason and it causes a dangerous situation.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
no curval... shift is on the right and rear brake is on the left.
It is dangerous to have it that way.. if you are used to the majority of bikes you will allmost allways hit the shifter hard in a panic stop and the real wheel will probly lock. It could easily (and has) cause an accident that is completely avoidable by standarizing.
It is much like changing the order of the clutch and bhrake pedal in a car. there is no reason and it causes a dangerous situation.
lazs
This is what I said:
Lazs...are you saying the shift on these bikes is on the right side and the brake is on the left?
Why no? That is what I said. I'm confused.
:confused:
IMHO the shift SHOULD be on the left side and the rear brake on the right. If it was reversed I would be in an accident for sure...exactly how you describe.
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I've never driven two wheeled motorised vehicles, but I've seen others, and the gear pedal seems to be on the left, and the rear brake on the right. Front brake is the right hand lever and clutch is the left hand lever. Is that how it is in the US?
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oops... so you did curval. I thought you said that they were both on the right.
beet.. yes. most bikes (all but brit ones) have the shift on the left and the brake on the right.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
gixer... you know as much about revolvers as you know about the U.S. thanks for trying to pander to me tho..
Really? That makes me quite smart then on both counts.
What makes you think I don't know anything about revolvers or any other type of firearm? I'd guess I've probably spent more time on the range with automatic and heavy weapons then you. Since I'm guessing only one of us has done military service.
...-Gixer
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and that makes you an expert on revolver how?
I have no problem conceding that you have fired more heavy weapons and full autos than me. Bet I have fired one more recently than you tho. Not that it matters. shooting them a few times doesn't make you an expert or even knowlegeable.
You proved you don't know squat about revolvers allready.... regardless of wheather you have ever fired one or not.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
You proved you don't know squat about revolvers allready.... regardless of wheather you have ever fired one or not.
lazs
You know Lazs I only used the revolver example as just that, a bit of a light humoured example that would suit you. But when it comes to guns your so defensive about them that you missed the point I was trying to make originally completely.
Lighhten up, you come across as some kind of crazed gun nut at times.
...-Gixer