Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: BTW on May 22, 2005, 11:46:00 AM

Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: BTW on May 22, 2005, 11:46:00 AM
I read a post here that states gun convergence works up down also as well as in the horizontal plane, i.e., if your target is closer than the convergence distance, you should aim a little below the target.

I have been unable to prove this offline using the target. I set the convergence distance to 600 yards and fired at the target set at .target 200

While the guns did not converge in the horizontal plane, they were at the exact level as the piper.

This was in the spit 9. It may be different on other planes as I haven't checked those
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: Ecliptik on May 22, 2005, 11:50:02 AM
I have never seen any proof of vertical convergence claims.  Assume that your guns are firing straight out.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: fuzeman on May 22, 2005, 01:36:27 PM
"Gunsight convergence has been changed so that your bullets will strike high when the range is less than the convergence setting."
That is from the 2.01 ReadMe file. I'll let you deceide.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: BTW on May 22, 2005, 01:55:08 PM
It has to a misprint as the opposite can be proven offline.

I set the convergence in a spit9  at 650 yards for both the 20mm cannons and the 50 cal.

I took the spit to 5 k headed directly north and put it on auto pilot and wep. I waited for the plane to get completely level and set .target 100. I shot cannons. There were two distinct impact points both level with the piper. I shot the 50 cals. Again, two distinct impact points, both level with piper. I set .target 0 (to clear off the holes), then .target 200. Again, cannons and 50 cal gave two distinct points, both level with the piper.

At target 300, there was one oblong area of impact, level with the piper. At distances 400, 500, and 600, the pattern became tighter but the level remained constant with the piper.


I don't know what the notes say, but this test can be easily reproduced offline and, IMO, indicates there is no vertical convergence.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: MANDO on May 22, 2005, 02:05:23 PM
BTW, then that should be posted at the bug forum.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: DamnedRen on May 22, 2005, 04:15:40 PM
There never was verticle convergence. Just some bullet drop from the heavier slower moving rounds. The .50's for instance can go out a few miles because they have a flat trajectory.

I'd suppose IF (using a pony as an example) you wanted all the bullets to end up at the same point in space, with regard to bullet drop, you might want to aim the '50's at 300 or so and the '20's to maybe 400. But you give up a little horizontal convergence in the process. By the same token a lil spread aint such a bad thing either. :)

Somehow I get the feeling you're expeccting to get a snipers accuracy using a grenade. If you look again at the target, and just like the old M-60 machine guns from the war, you will see a pattern emerge that covers a large area.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: MANDO on May 22, 2005, 04:49:01 PM
For some extrange reason search engine is not working for me, in any case, try searching about gun harmonization in the aircraft and vehicles forum (any date), it has been discused there a lot in the past.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: Morpheus on May 22, 2005, 06:33:17 PM
I beleive the read me file is true.

When I'm firing at a con from dead 6, and am under the distance at which my convergence is set at, if I dont aim lower I will miss with most or all of my rounds that are fired.

I dont think this makes a whole lot of difference until you come well inside the distance at which you have your convergence set at.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: TequilaChaser on May 22, 2005, 06:43:16 PM
1st, instead of using auto pilot, try using SHIFT X ( auto angle )

as fuzeman noted, there were some changes in 2.01 readme file

only differences I ever noted ( pre 2.01 release ) was cannon rounds had a slight drop over machine gun rounds. the 30 mm Cannon had an even bigger drop. for the most part cannon rds ( 20 mm ) dropped slightly if all cannon guns and machine guns was converged at same distance, so if you set the 50's 303's etc at say 350, you would want to set the cannons at 400 to make all hit/converge at the same distance. If all were set to same convergence the 20mm usually would fall a ring to  a ring and 1/2 lower than the machine guns. Again, this was all tested before the 2.01 release and and was tested using Auto Angle ( SHIFT X ) verses using Auto pilot/flight
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: TequilaChaser on May 22, 2005, 06:46:20 PM
using autopilot you are flying with a slight nose-up atitude verses flying with Auto Angle where you have the piper set dead on the target!
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: BTW on May 22, 2005, 08:19:26 PM
Well, one would expect if convergence is set at 650 yards for 20 mm cannons, they should hit above the piper (especially if the plane is pointed slightly up whille on auto pilot) when fired at 100 and 200 yards. That doesn't happen. The hits land level with the piper. Try it offline in a spit9 - its what happens.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: TequilaChaser on May 22, 2005, 08:56:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MANDO
BTW, then that should be posted in the bug forum.



GOOD POINT  MANDO!!!!  if infact this is a bug,  maybe Skuzzy/Pyro or Hitech will drop us a bone ( the answer )

BTW< what is your callsign/gameid  in-game? I like to know who I am talking with :)
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: BTW on May 22, 2005, 09:18:01 PM
BirdTW

And not to be all secret agent - its Etch. I'm just back to play the game and furball till i die - i.e., blow off steam and make stuff explode in an acceptable manner :D
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: TequilaChaser on May 22, 2005, 10:00:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BTW
BirdTW

And not to be all secret agent - its Etch.  



good to see you back you ole warthog :D


will look for ya up in the arenas Bro  ~S~
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: CPorky on May 23, 2005, 05:23:20 AM
This is an interesting thread, as far as I knew the gravity drop wasn't modeled or wasn't modeled properly.

If it is modeled, I'll likely place my convergence back at 650 for my P38 to allow me to pull less G on a wildly manuvering target that is beneath my nose.

That makes sense, right?
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: Ecliptik on May 23, 2005, 12:29:13 PM
Gravity drop has always been modeled.  I can't say for sure whether it's modelled properly but it seems fine, the ballistics have always seemed very realistic.  You can observe your tracers drop in an arc as they travel more than several hundred yards.  It was easier to notice in AH1 when tracers were much more clearly visible.  The effect is more pronouced when firing from a level orientation, as opposed to steep dives or climbs.  Your bullets will also lose velocity much faster if you're firing them upwards - one reason why, in a vertical head-on situation like a failed rope, it's always advantageous to be firing from above.
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: Eagler on May 23, 2005, 01:14:02 PM
convergence has nothing to do with gravity

one affects the horizontal path of a bullet, the other the verticle

otherwise, why do you aim above the target when chasing them and they are say 600+ ?
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: SkyWolf on May 23, 2005, 03:09:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
convergence has nothing to do with gravity

one affects the horizontal path of a bullet, the other the verticle

otherwise, why do you aim above the target when chasing them and they are say 600+ ?



When this happens is your convergence set to 600 + or 275? It seems this would be important based on what was said previously.  :confused:

Woof
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: TexMurphy on May 23, 2005, 03:52:36 PM
Try the same test with some guns that have worse ballistics.. like the russian or german cannons....

Tex
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: TexMurphy on May 23, 2005, 03:55:49 PM
Just did the test with the 190 A5.

.target 100 dead on
.target 800 far down to the left

Tex
Title: Gun convergence - gravity
Post by: BTW on May 23, 2005, 07:41:29 PM
What was the convergence set at? If it was dead on at 100 and convergence was set at 650, that seems there would be no verticle convergence , but gravity drop ( because of the down left at 800 out)

Anyway, it shows the ammo is different so I'll try some more.

Thnx