Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bustr on May 24, 2005, 12:54:49 PM
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Skuzzy,
Sorry about that post. I actually wanted to understand why the law got passed or if it was a joke. I guess I have lived under a misconception about Norway all these years..................
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Why are you apologizing?
All EU countries have similar discrimination and hate speech laws. Canada and the Commonwealth countries do as well.
People are in jail for saying what they think and believe in those countries.
Don't let the hypocrites fool you when they complain about the US.
Certainly don't apologize for pointing that hypocrisy out.
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Nothing to do with the initial post anyways. It had taken a bad turn and needed to be put down like a rabid dog.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Nothing to do with the initial post anyways. It had taken a bad turn and needed to be put down like a rabid dog.
I had a rabbit dog once. A cute little....oh wait...nm.
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Guilty... it wuz me.
... ummm.. hey, you ain't gonna poke me with that thing, are yah?
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dont be sorry for your post but next time dont take a "blog" for a real thing.
what is posted as : "Norwegians are guilty until proven otherwise" is all turned oppside down.
Please,,, give me a break. We have much the same laws and constitutions as the rest of the western world.
and freedom to speach aswell, that does some certain organisations to be able to bloooble, babble on the net and get more attention that they actually need.
I agreee about how we are dealing with people like Mullah Krekar is a shame. But as long as the norwegian police with help of US or GB intelligence cant prove him guilty, we have a problem.
I and most of us wish him and/or his fellow criminals outta our country just as you guys.
PS! sorry for my bad English I'm in a hurry doing my mastergrade.
(I am way to old for that but it finnally worked out)
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Good luck on yer Masters, Airguard!
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Originally posted by slimm50
I had a rabbit dog once. A cute little....oh wait...nm.
When I was 7 I lived in Peshawar Pakistan. I found a bat laying on the ground and picked it up. It bit me. Lab tests concluded rabies. I got 21 shots in the stomach muscles.....................w e rabid dogs will get even with the world one day..muhawwwaahhhhaaahheheheh eheheh...............:)
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Good luck airguard.
Wotan.. wtc are you talking about :confused:
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My post is clear, what don't you understand?
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Name a person here that is jailed because of what he has said or thought please.
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Thank you guys it si supposed to be finished the 10th of june.
oboy my spelling :D (just had a overview of my former post hehe, and I dont bother to fix it )
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Masters in english airguard? :D
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Wotan.. wtc are you talking about :confused:
Wotan is actually correct.
But he fails to include the USA.
The fact is that while freedom of speech is a laudable ideal; it remains an ideal. That's to say there's no place on earth that perfectly supports it yet; though of course some are much; much closer than others.
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Well... there is not a single individual here that is jailed for saying or thinking anything.
I havent heard about anyone in the US either.
Wotan?
you beeing sued by google for server abuse?
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I can name plenty of them...
The most publicized right now is in Germany (after being deported from Canada) is holocaust denier Ernst Zundel.
While clearly a kook and a Nazi apologist he is being held based on his published beliefs.
I can fill this thread up with others from all across Europe.
From your own country I will offer a quick cut-n-paste:
The conflict between the freedom of speech and Norway’s obligation to fight racism remained a hot-topic of discussion in 2002. Two court decisions in particular contributed to this.
· In April, the leader of a nationalist group was sentenced to unconditional
imprisonment (35 days) for having distributed, over the Internet and through the print media, strongly depreciatory remarks about minority groups in general and about Jews in particular. According to the court the remarks expressed hate and promoted
persecution. This was the first time a person was sentenced to unconditional prison term on charges of hate speech, and as such the decision was considered to be a step forward in the fight against racism. The verdict was issued in the district court and was not appealed.
The Norwegian Helsinki Committee (http://www.nhc.no/engelsk/index.html)
From this PDF (http://www.nhc.no/land/norge/04/IHF_Norge2003.PDF)
I will get more name and more incidents like this when I get home later if you like.
Make no mistake I am not defending Nazi's but what I am talking about is speech, speech that is protected in the US.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Well... there is not a single individual here that is jailed for saying or thinking anything.
I haven't heard about anyone in the US either.
Wotan?
you beeing sued by google for server abuse?
Oh that is rich. I am work so I get back when I can.
I have been waiting 2 days for your 'giamboni' quote about the intellectual superiority of Norwegian troops...
So when you deliver I may consider your impatience as reasonable.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Nothing to do with the initial post anyways. It had taken a bad turn and needed to be put down like a rabid dog.
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH/223639_a.jpg)
who cried when old yeller got shot?
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Originally posted by Seeker
Wotan is actually correct.
But he fails to include the USA.
The fact is that while freedom of speech is a laudable ideal; it remains an ideal. That's to say there's no place on earth that perfectly supports it yet; though of course some are much; much closer than others.
Actually I did include US but not explicitly. I stated the Euro hypocrisy in pointing out US flaws and ignoring their own. I didn't say the US was with out flaws.
I also didn't say that the US doesn't suffer from the same nonsense. But in EU and Norway its more extreme then in the US in terms of what type of words you can use. In the US you can say almost whatever you want (to exclude threats, or the classic fire in a crowded theater etc...).
hate speech can get you into trouble if during the commission of crime you use hate terms.
For example some one beats up a a minority and calls him racial names the whole time he is beating. In addition to the assault / battery you can be charged with a 'hate crime'. Crimes against property are similar. If you spray paint racial symbols and phrases all over a minorities house you could 9in some states) be charged with a hate crime.
After 911 you saw all sorts of hate speech against Islam and Muslims (and still do). In some EU Nations those types of comments could mean a jail sentence.
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Thats just sad Wotan.. Intellectual superiority of norwegian soldiers? Never said such a thing, but i recall what I said but I forgot all about it. I'll take another look on http://www.mil.no were it was posted
The ruling you refered to is from 2002 and nobody is therefore not in jail now.
The Nazi called Tore Tvedt from the organisation Vigrid posted nazi propaganda that was so harsh that it went beyond "freedom of speach" and was both false and threatning. To make direct threats against a group of people is illegal.
I can't comment on the german stuff, but I bet someone else can.
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Nilsen forgett it, looks like some people living behind the moon,
not worth to read or even start discussing about such crap.
*sigh*
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Originally posted by JB88
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH/223639_a.jpg)
who cried when old yeller got shot?
I did. I still do. Damn, maybe I coulda been an artist!;)
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
Nilsen forgett it, looks like some people living behind the moon,
not worth to read or even start discussing about such crap.
*sigh*
I know.
However I do feel rather silly for not finding the link I meant to provide in the other thread.
No guarantees Wotan, but im trying. Kinda like a needle in a haystack even if I know what site its on when i cant remember the sentace to search for.
Im on it tho, cause if i cant refind it ill accept an egg on my face.
hmm.. maybe its easyer to track down the thread here since I belive I have linked to it before.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Thats just sad Wotan.. Intellectual superiority of norwegian soldiers? Never said such a thing, but i recall what I said but I forgot all about it. I'll take another look on http://www.mil.no were it was posted
Yes you did and if you deny it you are a liar.
You said that the reason US soldiers are involved in so many incidents and Norwegian soldiers aren't is because US soldiers aren't as well educated.
Don't play your duck and weave nonsense with me. You said it.
The ruling you refered to is from 2002 and nobody is therefore not in jail now.
The Nazi called Tore Tvedt from the organisation Vigrid posted nazi propaganda that was so harsh that it went beyond "freedom of speach" and was both false and threatning. To make direct threats against a group of people is illegal.
I can't comment on the german stuff, but I bet someone else can.
First here's the AP wire on Tvedt
Subject: Convicted of free speech - Norway
Norwegian Guilty of Free Speech
Norwegian Guilty of Internet Racism
Associated Press Tuesday, April 23, 2002
OSLO, Norway: A Norwegian was sentenced to prison on Tuesday for posting racist and anti-Semitic propaganda on a Web site a rare conviction for hate speech on the Internet.
The Anti-Racism Center in Oslo filed a police complaint against Tore W. Tvedt, founder of the Vigrid right-wing extremist group, in November after finding possibly illegal material on the group's Internet site.
The Asker and Baerum District Court, on the outskirts of the capital, found the 59-year-old Tvedt guilty on five of six counts of violating Norway's anti-racism law. It also convicted him of a weapons violation and interfering with police.
The ruling said it put special weight on Tevdt's efforts to draw children and young people into anti-Semitic and racist beliefs. He was sentenced to 75 days in prison, with 45 days suspended, and two years probation.
Tvedt's lawyer, Vidar Lind Iversen, said he would appeal.
Activists welcomed what they said was Norway's first conviction for racism on the Internet.
"This is historic because it is the first time someone has been sentenced to prison and has to serve jail time for making racist statements," said Henrik Lunde of the Anti-Racism Center in Oslo.
He said the case also was precedent-setting because the Norwegian was held responsible for the contents of his home page, even though it was posted on a server that was based in the United States and out of Norway's jurisdiction.
In neighboring Sweden, the tabloid Aftonbladet was fined $3,400 on March 7 for allowing racist remarks on its Internet chat site, while a French court will hear a lawsuit against Yahoo Inc. involving auctioning of Nazi paraphernalia next month.
Lunde said it has been hard to get racism convictions in Norway, a Scandinavian nation of 4.5 million people, especially for propaganda often anonymously spread on the Internet.
"He was convicted for many reasons, which was possible because he stood up and clearly identified himself as the responsible publisher of the material," Lunde said.
On its Internet site, Vigrid professes a doctrine that mixes neo-Nazism, racial hatred and religion, claiming to worship Odin and other ancient Norse gods.
Lunde says the site included harsh, often extremely vulgar, anti-Jewish and racist statements, articles and even fairy tales for children.
The size of the group is not known, probably only a few youths, he said.
From what I can find there was no accusation of 'threats' just typical racist nonsense.
But you played dumb as if you never heard of such a thing.
I gave a 'famous' example of some one in jail right now in Germany for 'speech crimes'. You can search the internet.
I also included an example of the same type of crime being prosecuted in Norway. You acted as if it was unheard of...
I am not going to play any more straw man word games with you.
The statement I made in my original post is accurate.
Why are you apologizing?
All EU countries have similar discrimination and hate speech laws. Canada and the Commonwealth countries do as well.
People are in jail for saying what they think and believe in those countries.
Don't let the hypocrites fool you when they complain about the US.
Certainly don't apologize for pointing that hypocrisy out.
Instead of just playing some word shell game prove what I said is wrong in the above quote.
I am still waiting on your quote btw...
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Your bull starts on line 2 so i expect that the rest is no better.