Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on May 25, 2005, 07:40:33 AM

Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: beet1e on May 25, 2005, 07:40:33 AM: LOL - the NON campaign is 8 points ahead of the OUI campaign. And worse is to come - I didn't know that Holland would be voting on the following Wednesday. They look set to vote against...

Bad news for Chirac. I saw this cartoon today. May need Straffo to translate. I think it says something like "from the sublime to the ridiculous is only one step"...

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/graphics/2005/05/25/ixd25big.gif)
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Saintaw on May 25, 2005, 08:01:11 AM: They need to say YES, if the want to be part of the 21st century & remain competitive.

I *realy* can't understand why they are doing this referendum in some countries... It makes no sense to have a referendum on a paper that not even 0.0001% of the pple will spend time reading. They will vote based on whatever their party leaders was babblin' about on TV. Hell... I fe**ing WORK for the EC and haven't got round reading it yet...

319 pages... c'mon.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: slimm50 on May 25, 2005, 08:15:44 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
They need to say YES, if ....

I *realy* can't understand why they are doing this referendum .. It makes no sense to have a referendum on a paper that not even 0.0001% of the pple will spend time reading. They will vote based on whatever their party leaders was babblin' about on TV. Hell... I ...haven't got round reading it yet...

Heh, sounds like our political process, don't it?
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: moot on May 25, 2005, 08:49:26 AM: I'm not staying long enough to find out how good it is firsthand, so I haven't read it.

But all I hear about it, hearsay and radio comments, is that no one really knows what it means, that you need to be a lawyer to understand it enough to do more than guess a yes or no.

Although it is a lengthy phonebook of lawyerese, no one seems to really care. No one I know has given it more interest than repeating what they heard about it, and that's across an almost complete spectrum of the population.
The few people that actually had an opinion (I was bored and curious and went around asking people at random one afternoon), didn't feel like specifying their lean for or against it.

It gives the same impression as the 2002 election turnout and consequences.

I actually agree with the locals on one aspect of things: I don't think the government has much to do with what I expect from it. It stands for almost nothing I care about, and isn't always true to those things it does stand for.
In general it's hard to please everyone, but over here it's hard to do half of that.
I'll stay polite..

Beet: that's correct
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Saintaw on May 25, 2005, 08:56:49 AM: You'll find a "Reader's Digest" here:

http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: moot on May 25, 2005, 09:00:09 AM: thanks :)
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 25, 2005, 09:06:53 AM: In fact I've changed my mind I'll vote OUI not that I agree with the constitution (I was unable to read it completly)
But because I'm neither right-wing extremist nor left-wing extremist.

And all the politician I've seen supporting the NON are at minima scumbag and moron.
I despise them so much that in case i'm the next French dictator my first act will be to have them beheaded (I'm moderate I could have tortured them)
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Toad on May 25, 2005, 09:14:21 AM: So the vote will be on a Constitution the voters can't be bothered to read because the highly respected and trusted polititicians have made it impossible for the average voter to understand?

Well, at least you can trust those politicians not to hose yas. ;)

Sorry, but I have to smile when I read this stuff after all the complaints about the US system and how it suxxors.

319 pages, written by pols and lawyers, unintelligible to the common voter......... yah, you've got NOTHING to worry about. :rofl
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Saintaw on May 25, 2005, 09:22:11 AM: No Toad, the actual constitution is about 120 pages, the rest are the human right charts, and some other explanative speeches attached to it. (I think in France they received the "light" version by mail)

You don't need to be a lawyer to understand it (what I read so far looks pretty clear, it cites the limitations of the constitution on the EU Vs Per country basis), I guess they just have to learn to be a little less lazy (me included).

Oh, and us city folks like to call it "sophisticated", not "complicated" :p

Edited for speeeling -> DUH!
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Hangtime on May 25, 2005, 09:23:32 AM: I like Straffo's reasoning.

"I changed my mind. People I hate are voting NO, so I'll vote YES.'

Gives me hope...

;)
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 25, 2005, 09:29:16 AM: not exact, I just (and simply) hate people :D

Btw your dear Pasqua vote NON it say a lot.

hahem isn't "sofisticated" spelled correctly "sophisticated" ?
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: beet1e on May 25, 2005, 09:29:35 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
They need to say YES, if the want to be part of the 21st century & remain competitive.
Well Norway seems to be doing very nicely, having said NO more than once. While Germany, one of the core members, has been in deep doo-doo for some years.

I don't have to read all 320 or 120 pages to make my mind up to vote NO, if we are ever given the chance to vote on it. The single currency is a big worry, what with surrendering control of interest rates to Brussels. I remember the interest rate "experiments" and Norman "je ne regrette rien" Lamont only too well.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 25, 2005, 09:31:52 AM: Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Well Norway seems to be doing very nicely, having said NO more than once. While Germany, one of the core members, has been in deep doo-doo for some years.

Norvege got oil , not Germany.

The only clever solution I see is to :
INVADE NORWAY !
and get ride of the native :p
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: beet1e on May 25, 2005, 09:42:00 AM: Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Norvege got oil , not Germany.
... and fish too!
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Spooky on May 25, 2005, 09:45:19 AM: Quote
Originally posted by straffo

And all the politician I've seen supporting the NON are at minima scumbag and moron.
I despise them so much that in case i'm the next French dictator my first act will be to have them beheaded (I'm moderate I could have tortured them)

Vive l'Empereur !
I'm already sharpening the guillotine !

I feel exactly like you Straffo !
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Saintaw on May 25, 2005, 09:53:47 AM: Beetle, where did you get that idea about the interest rates?

Those would be fixed by the BCE/BEI (based in Luxembourg) ... and voted by each Member State's OWN ministry. Besides, this would be a legislative issue, not an executive one.

Straffo: mon ortograffe nai pas toujur au poing ;)
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Sparks on May 25, 2005, 10:23:38 AM: The fact that they have made it so long and involved, the history of EU civil servants with long and involved things and a total and utter distrust of the EU as a entity will make me vote no when the time comes.

I hope France saves us the trouble.

Please someone tell me how a unified Europe is "going to keep us competitive" ? no one has yet made a convincing argument to me.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Chairboy on May 25, 2005, 10:49:04 AM: Long constitutions worry me. The US Constitution is pretty short, comparatively, but there's still tons of back and forth over interpreting things. Check out some of the 'separation of church and state' threads for an example.

The longer and more complicated it is, the greater likelihood that the thing will only protect Tyrants, not the people they rule.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 25, 2005, 11:00:41 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Spooky
Vive l'Empereur !
I'm already sharpening the guillotine !

I feel exactly like you Straffo !

look I've my minister of internal security now ! :D
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Hangtime on May 25, 2005, 11:06:03 AM: sounds like an attempt with lawyers & paper..

..at what the Reich took a stab at with panzers.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: john9001 on May 25, 2005, 12:44:31 PM: i favor the EU, because the next time they start killing each other the US can call it a civil war and stay out of it.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: GreenCloud on May 25, 2005, 12:52:32 PM: can we ban the euros from talking about this stuff on our Amercian Board...

Does anyone in USA care?......

We all know the world revolves around California
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: beet1e on May 25, 2005, 02:23:27 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Beetle, where did you get that idea about the interest rates?

Those would be fixed by the BCE/BEI (based in Luxembourg) ... and voted by each Member State's OWN ministry. Besides, this would be a legislative issue, not an executive one.
SAW, I'm not a financial expert, but I understood that interest rates had to be centrally controlled by the EU - not possible for economies with the same currency to set their own. Isn't that why Germany got saddled with a 3½% interest rate when it needed to go down to stimulate their economy?

What I remember of the ERM debacle was that Norman Lamont was trying to prop up the pound to keep it in line with the German mark in his 1992 experiment. It couldn't be done, even when our interest rate was cranked up to 15% - then up to 20+ on the day it all ended in tears - Black Wednesday. The £ crashed from US$2 to US$1.53. Our gold reserves were left depleted. Thousands of homeowners had their homes repossessed when they could not pay their mortgages at 15% interest. Thousands of small businesses went bankrupt...

... and I was so pissed off, I did not vote Conservative at the following two elections.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 25, 2005, 02:45:58 PM: More than the interest rate is the cost of working who kill the grow rate in Germany and France.

For example the minimum salary + tax in France is a little more than 2 time the UK one as I've heard.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Saintaw on May 25, 2005, 03:59:17 PM: Beetle, by all means neither am I a financial expert (my banker will agree to the above), but that's the info I have (one of those crazy coleagues of mine who actualy read the thing). It makes sense that the BEI would be the institution taking care of this (That's the central european bank), I'm sure I'll be able to dig up a link for you on that when I get back in tomorrow.

Straffo, yes... UK also has 20% less poeple on welfare than France, Germany or Belgium... so, yes... they do get jobs, but sometimes at lower wages. If you want a bigger difference, look at the EU eastern countries... met a guy today who's an official in Poland. He's got aproximately the same job here... earns about 5K/month ... compared to the 300€/ month there.

I'll agree that it's not all wonders but with the diversities we have with all 25 countries... you try & come up with a plan that makes "everyone happy".
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: lazs2 on May 26, 2005, 09:05:18 AM: hitler tried to unite you guys but you fought him every step of the way.

lazs
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: beet1e on May 29, 2005, 03:24:05 PM: Result in: It's NON!
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 29, 2005, 03:39:48 PM: Fait chier.

Mon pays est tellement plein de cretins que je me crois presque en Angleterre.

Voter pour de mauvaises raison est pire que vivre sous une dictature.

Et voir les communistes coucher avec les fachistes pour accoucher du NON me fait chier encore +.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: moot on May 30, 2005, 02:04:13 AM: Chier c'est bien, bouger c'est mieux.
Adios terre natale!
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Saintaw on May 30, 2005, 02:20:28 AM: I think I'm going to start some french bashing myself... what a bunch of **** !
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: beet1e on May 30, 2005, 03:20:47 AM: Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Fait chier.

Mon pays est tellement plein de cretins que je me crois presque en Angleterre.
:lol

Mais il y a plusiers de jours, tu m'as dit que tu voterais "NON"... :confused:
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 30, 2005, 03:31:48 AM: Je fait un petit outburst de temps en temps ;)

En fait j'ai changé d'avis voyant qui votait non.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: spitfiremkv on May 30, 2005, 09:28:23 AM: pourquoi dire non? vous ne voulez pas les pais pauvres entrant dans votre UE?
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 30, 2005, 10:04:58 AM: On a déja eu l'Angleterre dans le passé :D
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Monk on May 30, 2005, 10:09:44 AM: How bout dem Sox!
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Boroda on May 30, 2005, 12:58:40 PM: Quote
Originally posted by john9001
i favor the EU, because the next time they start killing each other the US can call it a civil war and stay out of it.

You'll definetly not stay out of it, you'll sell everything to every side of the conflict.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: Boroda on May 30, 2005, 01:01:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
hitler tried to unite you guys but you fought him every step of the way.

lazs

In fact now we see a third attempt after Napoleon and Hitler. When I remember who had to fix the problem last two times I really start worrying :(
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: spitfiremkv on May 30, 2005, 07:50:19 PM: yeah but now there's nukes...
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: spitfiremkv on May 30, 2005, 07:50:58 PM: je veux baisser une fille francaise.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: straffo on May 31, 2005, 01:38:33 AM: Et bien il faudra apprendre a éviter de faire des fautes qui entrainent des contresens.

Baisser : to lower.

Francaise : française.
Title: Cette dimanche ci, dites NON
Post by: moot on May 31, 2005, 02:14:01 AM: He means they're too tall for him.