Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Krusher on May 27, 2005, 07:27:42 AM
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I thought this was an onion article when I first read it.
BBC link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm)
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.
They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.
The research is published in the British Medical Journal.
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Good thing they can't get their hands on guns.:aok
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Sadly, there is no option left except to Ban the Butterknife......... and all of its relations, both distant and close.
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Ahh... so if a law abiding person can only be slashed instead of stabbed he all will be well?
How they gonna ban fists or feet? You do realize that I could probly beat you to death with my bare hands curval? Or even one of those cricket paddles (I seen shaun of the dead).
You let women and city dwellers vote and eventually.... well... you are all women and city dwellers.
seems that they can't control druggies and drunks so.... they bring everyone down to the level of a druggie or a drunk.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
You do realize that I could probly beat you to death with my bare hands curval? Or even one of those cricket paddles (I seen shaun of the dead). lazs
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Cricket paddle!
Karaya
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I think Karaya wants a spanking.
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One word-------> Lame
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How come the picture of a group of people mugging someone with cricket paddles reminds me of Monty Python.
What are they going to mug him for?
"Pardon me sir, but our bowler has run out of balls. Please be so kindly to give us yours or otherwise we would have to beat the snot out of you with our cricket paddles."
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Well lazs...you could try. Just beware the mighty 9-iron. ;)
Of course if you had a gun you could shoot me from hundreds of yards away.
Which would I prefer...violent crimminals with guns or kitchen knives. Methinks the latter. Just a personal preference.
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Originally posted by Curval
Which would I prefer...violent crimminals with guns or kitchen knives. Methinks the latter. Just a personal preference.
Why put up with violent criminals attacking you with butter knives when all you need to do to solve the problem is ban kitchen knives? It worked with guns, right?
Then when violent criminals start using 2x4s you can pass a law banning boards longer than one foot so they're less of a weapon.
Then you can require all pieces of pipe longer than three feet have a flexible joint in the middle so it can't be swung to make pipes less lethal.
You guys are on the right track for solving all criminal assaults, you just need to ban one potential weapon at a time.
:aok
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I thought in britian the only crimes there were drive by arguements
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Another criteria would be non viloent citizens with guns and criminals who are afraid. But then that would mean discriminating against the poor criminals and not allowing them to conduct their usual activities. Instead they'll just have to ban large knives except for those who absolutely need them like chefs and butchers. Everyone else can learn to eat quiche and other non tough foods. I mean really, who really NEEDS a large knife or any other sharp object. You should be able to feed yourself with a spoon. :rolleyes: :p
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Ridiculous arguments. Just ridiculous.:rofl
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I have read and heard over the years that being shot to death is largely preferred over being stabbed to death. Not sure why except Im guessing that being shot is quicker and most likely less messy. One thing is for sure, people will be killing each other as long as more than two humans persist simultaneously on the planet.
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Not nearly as rediculous as an actual serious proposal to ban "large" knives from the populace, particularly with anyone giving any support to it.
Next, people can't be trusted to behave, we must therefore put all people in an institution where they can be monitored and controlled properly so they do no harm to anyone. After all, the government knows best!
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I'm not supporting it at all. I feel that I could hold off (or at least have a chance at holding off) an attacker with a knife (of any size) whereas I would not stand a chance if they had a gun. (unless they shot as badly as I do with a handgun)
Yeager: Be interesting to note who was able to determine that. Just whose opinion was sought first? The guy/girl who was shot to death...or stabbed to death. :rofl Amazing that after that they could be killed again and then give their opinion on which was worse.
LOL!!!!
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No worries Curval... lazs is a petty tough guy, but I'm betting you could outrun him.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
No worries Curval... lazs is a petty tough guy, but I'm betting you could outrun him.
Correct...he has that gimp leg afterall. Pretty tough to outrun a bullet though.
:)
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curval, I dont see the humor in it. Ive just picked this stuff up over the years. Mostly from reading the opinions of crime scene investigators and people associated with determining cause of death. Pretty standard fare, plus I have my own hunting experiences to draw from.
Its akin to the debate over hunting large animals with rifles as opposed to using bow and arrow. The arrow, like the knife causes death slowely, as a general rule, by prolonged bleeding (commonly referred to as "bleedout") whereas the rifle bullet tends to be faster, instantly in many cases, and is considered "more human" for what its worth.
I can imagine preferring to die quickly rather than in prolonged suffering agony at the hands of a lunatic. Also, escaping someone with a knife, let alone fighting off someone with a knife, is a very difficult business and you are likely to be severely injured, if you survive.
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Yeager, if your deer are dying any more slowly from an arrow wound than a rifle bullet, you are using the wrong bow and arrow. Considering a modern compound bow with expanding broadheads and modern, lightweight composite arrows can reliably fire said arrow at over 1000 fps and hit a deer 75 yards away with enough force to spit a chunk of his heart the size of a golfball out the other side of his chest cavity, there isnt much "bleeding out" to be done at that point, above and beyond what happens with a high power rife bullet. As a matter of fact, when you add in fiber-optic sights that have been properly ranged, there's as little chance of missing under 100 yards as there is with a scoped rifle. Which is why I turned to black powder rifles with iron sights for my hunting. Recurve bows are too cumbersome for me to consider a viable alternative in the woods, and everything else is so easy these days its more of a slaughter than a sport.
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wait till they pass the "protect everyone act" and everyone will be wrapped up in kevlar bublle wrap ALL THE TIME so no one at all can get hurt.
(http://www.mwsc.edu/orgs/tke/images/fall2003/FunWeekFall03/Jesse_InBubbleWrap.jpg)
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Wow...arrowheads that cause mass tissue damage and tear out deer hearts for instant stop one shot kills hehe.
Guess I need to keep up on bow hunting technology.
Real bowman use longbows.
:aok
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
wait till they pass the "protect everyone act" and everyone will be wrapped up in kevlar bublle wrap ALL THE TIME so no one at all can get hurt.
(http://www.mwsc.edu/orgs/tke/images/fall2003/FunWeekFall03/Jesse_InBubbleWrap.jpg)
It's good to see Gunslinger's now making his own body armor
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Yeager, if your deer are dying any more slowly from an arrow wound than a rifle bullet, you are using the wrong bow and arrow. Considering a modern compound bow with expanding broadheads and modern, lightweight composite arrows can reliably fire said arrow at over 1000 fps and hit a deer 75 yards away with enough force to spit a chunk of his heart the size of a golfball out the other side of his chest cavity, there isnt much "bleeding out" to be done at that point, above and beyond what happens with a high power rife bullet. As a matter of fact, when you add in fiber-optic sights that have been properly ranged, there's as little chance of missing under 100 yards as there is with a scoped rifle. Which is why I turned to black powder rifles with iron sights for my hunting. Recurve bows are too cumbersome for me to consider a viable alternative in the woods, and everything else is so easy these days its more of a slaughter than a sport.
Who the f**k CARES if the deer feels pain? We have guys posting that they can beat someone to death w/ their own hands and others care if bambi has a fatal arrow wound I wish you closet PETA wannabees / toughguy hunters would stick to ONE program.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Who the f**k CARES if the deer feels pain? We have guys posting that they can beat someone to death w/ their own hands and others care if bambi has a fatal arrow wound I wish you closet PETA wannabees / toughguy hunters would stick to ONE program.
:rolleyes:
Ummm......
If you choose to believe those stories about "they can beat someone to death w/ their own hands", thats your problem. I hear alot of those stories every day. No different than monkeys beating on their chests and howling.
I dont care so much if the deer feels PAIN, so much as I care that it doesnt get away and suffer for days before dying from a wound filled with pus and gangrene. I care because if I only wound instead of kill, it speaks to my lack of skill. I care because leaving a wounded animal to suffer is just wrong. No hunter I know that's worth a damn would do that. I care because wounded animals are dangerous, to other people and property. Perhaps because I was taught a basic respect for life by people who cared what I turned out like. I'm sorry you lacked that. As for PETA, they are only useful for comic relief. Kinda like your post here.
Oh, and most of all Mr. Smarta**, I care because its the FRIGGEN POINT of hunting is to KILL what you are shooting at. Not wound it and watch it die slowly.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Wow...arrowheads that cause mass tissue damage and tear out deer hearts for instant stop one shot kills hehe.
Guess I need to keep up on bow hunting technology.
Real bowman use longbows.
:aok
I do love shooting longbows and recurves, but I just cant see hauling something like that around in the woods. Not for me at any rate. If you like it more power to ya bud. I like carryin my Hawken replica with powder horn and such out for hunting. Yeah I cheat and use pre-lube patches to make cleaning easier, but the rest I try to stay as far from "modern" as possible. Just more challenge.
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I've been deer hunting with compound bows for over 20 years, and even worked for the state wildlife agency, and I've NEVER seen ANY compound bow that can shoot a regulation hunting arrow/broadhead combination to anywhere NEAR 1000 FPS.
Not even a 95 pound draw bow with twin cams, shooting a carbon fiber arrow with a 90 grain broadhead shooting off an overdraw.
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You haven't seen the new rocket-propelled arrows? The charge ignites about 5 feet out in front of the bow.
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Well... if the bad guys have knives... blunt point or otherwise.. I want to be able to shoot em rather than some messy struggle.
curval... myu three year old grand daughter can outrun me. I do have some small skill in getting people angry enough that they get in range tho. It's a gift.
The thing is.. Mav is onto it... the real secret is to have the law abiding be better armed and trained than the bad guys.
lazs
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I've been deer hunting with compound bows for over 20 years, and even worked for the state wildlife agency, and I've NEVER seen ANY compound bow that can shoot a regulation hunting arrow/broadhead combination to anywhere NEAR 1000 FPS.
Not even a 95 pound draw bow with twin cams, shooting a carbon fiber arrow with a 90 grain broadhead shooting off an overdraw.
Correct. My competition bow I can break 275 fps with. I've seen guys around 350, but thats some expensive stuff. Those guys never see the woods really, they just live for competitions. The 1000 fps thing was an extreme exaggeration, designed to see how many I could catch. Damn you Capn lol.
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Did you bother reading the article? This isn't the government it's just some Doctor's writing in a medical journal.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Correct. My competition bow I can break 275 fps with. I've seen guys around 350, but thats some expensive stuff. Those guys never see the woods really, they just live for competitions. The 1000 fps thing was an extreme exaggeration, designed to see how many I could catch. Damn you Capn lol.
My hunting bow clocks around 260 or so. I would like to step up, but I've recently seriously damaged my right arm, so I can't draw my current bow right now, my right arm won't hold while my left draws. My bow is only a 35% letoff, it's a very old PSE, I've had it nearly 20 years. I'm hoping I can rehab my arm and get back on the weight bench, but since passing 40 I don't heal as well. I don't even know what I did to it. But it has a real cool looking bruise that runs from my wrist to my elbow, then crosses my bicep and turns under to my armpit. It comes and goes because I can't take more than a week or so out of the shop.
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Originally posted by Pei
Did you bother reading the article? This isn't the government it's just some Doctor's writing in a medical journal.
Clue here,
Who do you think the doctor wants to make and enforce the ban???
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
My hunting bow clocks around 260 or so. I would like to step up, but I've recently seriously damaged my right arm, so I can't draw my current bow right now, my right arm won't hold while my left draws. My bow is only a 35% letoff, it's a very old PSE, I've had it nearly 20 years. I'm hoping I can rehab my arm and get back on the weight bench, but since passing 40 I don't heal as well. I don't even know what I did to it. But it has a real cool looking bruise that runs from my wrist to my elbow, then crosses my bicep and turns under to my armpit. It comes and goes because I can't take more than a week or so out of the shop.
I broke my left arm almost exactly 11 years ago, and it is still not as good as it was then. There are bows now with a letoff that makes it feel like you are plucking harp strings instead of pulling a bow string. Almost no effort to hold it at all. Of course, they are unusable for hunts if you are going after trophies. They have regulations on how much letoff you can get away with.
As for the injury.......WTF?? If you have that big a bruise, and it "comes and goes", you better get that looked at. You could have torn important stuff in there. Even thinking about that makes me cringe, and I've been banged up and cut up in just about any way you can think of. Hope I'm wrong and its nothing serious, but you should still make the time. Like you said, things dont heal as fast anymore. It's your body, and while you dont get any extra points at the end for turning it in all nice and shiny, you should at least be comfortable in it if possible.
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My brother and I both pulled a "Charlie Daniels" (getting your arm caught in the driveshaft of a farm implement), my brother before Charlie, and me after. Both of us broke our left arms, and are left handed.
As to my right arm, I know I tore something, I'm trying to get it to heal. However, I own my own business, and I'm the ONLY engine builder/shortblock machinist there. Needless to say, I can't take 6-8 weeks off without going out of business. It's getting better, it just takes a while. The bruise comes back if I get careless and over do it.
There are no laws here about let off, you just can't have a mechanical device to hold the string in the drawn position. My bow is a 35% letoff, being 20 years old. These days, 65% is more common, especially on the high draw weight bows. The only thing allowed with a mechanical hold are crossbows. You have to be disabled to use a crossbow here in archery season.
If it ain't healed by July, I'll skip bow season this year, because two months is the minimum I consider to be enough practice time. Archery season starts in September here.
If it doesn't heal in time, I'll just do more muzzleloading and revolver shooting. It will keep me out of one hunt I want to make though, the hunt at AEDC, the Arnold AFB area. There are some nice deer, and it is a 3 day hunt close to home with a nice camping area.
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Police in Scotland have said people should have to register to buy knives in a bid to tackle some of the worst knife crime in Europe.
Senior officers want shoppers to produce identification and then have to wait for a period of up to five days for the knife to be posted out to them.
In Scotland last year, 51 people were stabbed to death.
BBC link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4072508.stm)
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I hope I don't live long enough for government to make my world completely safe.
lazs
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Originally posted by Krusher
I thought this was an onion article when I first read it.
BBC link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm)
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.
They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.
The research is published in the British Medical Journal.
I feel the call to ban knives in Britain coming fast! Man stabs wife 112 times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1682065,00.html)
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Originally posted by Maverick
Clue here,
Who do you think the doctor wants to make and enforce the ban???
I'd like to make the government to change the law so I get free booze and super models every weekend but it ain't going to happen either.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
There are no laws here about let off, you just can't have a mechanical device to hold the string in the drawn position. My bow is a 35% letoff, being 20 years old. These days, 65% is more common, especially on the high draw weight bows. The only thing allowed with a mechanical hold are crossbows. You have to be disabled to use a crossbow here in archery season.
What's "let off"?
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Originally posted by Pei
I'd like to make the government to change the law so I get free booze and super models every weekend but it ain't going to happen either.
I'd vote for that...
Tronsky
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Seeker, "let-off" refers to the percentage of reduction in the force necessary to hold an arrow at full draw provided by a compound bow. For instance, if a bow's draw weight is normally set at 60 pounds, with a "let-off" of 40%, the pull necessary to hold that bow at full draw has been reduced to 36 pounds.
There are some modern compounds that offer "let-off" substantially greater than 40%.
Regards, Shuckins
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Thanks.
I understand the explanation; but not how it works.
If it takes 60lb draw to bend the bow to the required amount; how does it take to hold it extended?
I've done a little bit of archery; but many years ago; and only on flat face long bows (albeit glass fibre).
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Seeker, the cams on a compound bow typically come into play when the bow is at half draw, dramatically lessening the amount of force needed to pull the string the remainder of the distance to full draw, and to hold it there. The draw weight that is listed for compound bows is the weight that the archer is required to pull at the start of draw, with "let-off" being the difference between that weight and that required to hold it at full draw; ergo 40% of 60 lbs.
Regards, Shuckins
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If you have to you can outrun a mad man with knife.
I've yet to see anyone outrun a bullet.
Sorry, no comparison.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
If you have to you can outrun a mad man with knife.
I've yet to see anyone outrun a bullet.
Sorry, no comparison.
I am betting your average knife wielding murder doesn't show his weapon of choice until he is in the proper position to use it.
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skyprancer... some people can outrun a knife weilder (if they are aware of it... most aren't) and some can't.
Some people can hit a running person with a bullet.... most can't.
My guess is that you would not be able to hit a family sedan or london cab with a revolver if you were running at the time. I am not kidding... with your handgun experiance I would be willing to bet that you couldn't hit a london cab with a revolver from even 20 yards if you were running.
At school shootings where the government has made everyone but the bad guy helpless sheep... the bad guy misses most of the time. Knives are much worse up close in most peoples hands..
It's not like in the movies... us with firearms rights know that.. you will just have to take our word for it.
lazs
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Originally posted by Krusher
I am betting your average knife wielding murder doesn't show his weapon of choice until he is in the proper position to use it.
Makes me wonder how many people get stabbed in the back & how many in the front.
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Originally posted by lazs2
skyprancer... some people can outrun a knife weilder (if they are aware of it... most aren't) and some can't.
Some people can hit a running person with a bullet.... most can't.
Is this suggesting it is actually safer to be shot at than attacked by a knife lazs? The wording doth suggest it.
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Most people believe that you are in more danger from an untrained knife wielder at close range than an untrained handgun wielder.
There are plenty of examples of gunfights at close range where dozens of rounds were fired with no hits. Knife weilders generaly get their victim.
The problem is... I don't want to get into a knife fight... even if the attacker allowed me to use my knife... I don't want to have us start carving on each other at close range.
I want to draw a gun and make him run away or fall down and ignore me.
lazs
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lol
:rofl :rofl
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I don't agree with everything Lazs writes, but he's right about the difficulty of shooting at somebody running (unless he runs directly towards or from you) or shooting while running.
The difference between a gun and a knife is the amount of anger needed to commit a murder:
Gun: just a flash of anger may be enough to pull the trigger and deliver a lethal wound, because the action of pulling a trigger is somewhat distant of killing somebody.
Knife: the anger needs to be greater as the act of pushing several inches of steel inside someone's body is much more "personal" and goes against one's instincts.
Children show these barrier of instincts: their jaw is strong enough to tear chunks of meat from a steack but when they bite another kid they very rarely draw blood and only exceptionally tear the flesh.
The risk of committing something irreparable in a jolt of temper is hence higher with a gun.
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yes desely... we are talking about people with intent to commit harm... least I thought we were.
curval... do you think more muggings are done at gunpoint or knifepoint in the U.S.?
lazs
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No idea. Probably knife-point.