Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: joness on March 14, 2001, 05:17:00 PM
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ftp://lists.ient.com/pub/WarBirds/WBIII
Enjoy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
joness
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nvmind
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 03-14-2001).]
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Good boy Joness. Now run off to master "MG" for the biscuit reward for a job well done.
-Westy
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Aside from him not posting it in the wrong forumn, I see nothing wrong with that post.
Thanks for the link.
J_A_B
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If you knew 'who' he is you'd know 'why' he posted that here JAB (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) It's not a biggy. I had already down loaded it. It's nice. Better than before. However definately nothing for Hotseat to light up a victory cigar over. The graphics are not any 'leap' by far - contrarty to what has been touted for so long from the team there. And the sys specs are a hog in comparison to AH. Nope. WB III, even given it's beat release, is not going to be grabbing HTC's crwon any time soon.
To use someone elses' screen shots as an example (it aint worht my ftp space and these do fine)
http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/018934.html (http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/018934.html)
It is, at best, on par with AH. One good positive is the MAC guys can see 3D now and not feel like they're paying the same for less.
If someone needs to save $5/mo this could be an option.
-Westy
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Westy,
I'm at work so I haven't downloaded or seen it yet, but I would like to correct you on making a statement about what you saw.
I am by far not a cheerleader for iEN and I do fly AH these days more than I do WB, but I still like both. This release of WBIII is a BETA and as cautioned by them, has many features and effects purposely disables so that they can load test it properly. As time goes on they will turn more and more features on.
So I think it would be seriously unfair to judge this very first beta release to the current version of AH, just as it was unfair to judge the first version of AH to then WB.
I seriously hope that WBIII raises the bar for online combat sims. I for one, know I will be the better for it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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1st Lt. Wicked
XO,487th FS "Lil' Bastards"
352nd FG "Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"
352ndfightergroup.com (http://www.352ndfightergroup.com)
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Hehe, no offense, Westy bud, but you have become the HTC cheerleader extraordinaire (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Everytime ANYONE mentions WB here you go nuts.
(http://www.rhinobytes.com/haze/temp/b25c.jpg)
You telling me that doesn't look good for an initial beta release? A release that, like AH, is bound to get better with every update over the beta cycle?
I give HTC kudos when I feel they're deserved, and iEN kudos when I feel they're deserved. In this case, they deserve some kudos. WB3 looks to have a lot of potential.
Spitboy -SW-
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Will hold off on Kudos till i see if any FM changes and connect issuses have been addressed. If not at least there planes are as purdy as ours.
Dog out............
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And you must be the Ying to my Yang Spitboy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
YES, they do get kudos for the work they did. You're screen shot looks very, very nice. What are the settings and yous sys if I can ask.
Now, back on topic (gets into cream and burgundy sweater wuth the gold letters HTC on the front, pleated skirt and sassy pom-poms)....
How do you figure I went nuts? I didn't rant, rave ot trash WB III. Don;t lump me in with your pet MAC boy MG. I gave an honest first impression. I've been trying it offline for about an hour and I'm just going to put it away till penidng some changes. It's definately underbaked. The chicken is still pink inside.
YMM, of course.
I honestly would feel guilty if I worte all my thoughts on what I think of WB III. I also have no doubt if I gave a true nit picky synopsis of all that I found wrong we'd end up having the WB's junk yard dog team here pronto. Snapping at my heals and looking for a fresh bloody t.
All that I have found right in WB III I've already had (and more) here in AH for quite some time. WB III is not bad. It's not that great either. <shoulder shrug>
Wicked, I understand that this release is a true beta product. IMO, it does not live up to the hype that HS's been making it out to be. THIS software is what they have been playing/testing with. That is my 100% honest opinion of course.
Sure I'm an AH fan, chearleader, whatever. But I'm not dumb, brand blind nor looking to have Pyro's love child. HTC gets $30/mo from me, I get an outstanding deal. It works well. I like all the folks at HTC. I____ well, no need to mention the folks at iEN (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Anyway, I prefer Fenway Franks. Spitboy prefers Colonial. They're both hot dogs. I don't feel threatened because his favorite is coming out with a new improved product on par with what I like. I was given a taste test of the actual product. I did not like how it tastes. Now the other tasters are going to string me up for being heretical?
If I thought WB III was a better bargain or I got more value for my money? It's simple. I'd become a WB III subscriber. Same went for WB 2.77. I'm not a customer of WB 2.77 and I do not see anthing that makes me go "wow!", "holy toejam", "would you look at that!" , "hey HiTech when can we have xxxxx (fill in the blank)". I just don't see it getting there. There are alot of ambiguos and thinly hinted at promises of more ot come. What that stuff is I have not clue.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-14-2001).]
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I got cracked up when I read that thread, and read that none of the links go anywhere. I'm not a big internet genius, but when I add a movie, film, etc. to my squad's webpage. You can bet, even with my limited experience, I check my link before I go posting it somewhere.
It's just something you do. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
Who was it that found where the file was anyway?
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How do you figure I went nuts? I didn't rant, rave ot trash WB III. Don;t lump me in with your pet MAC boy MG.
Don't lump me in with MG, either, please. If you knew the history, you'd know that I've known MG a long time and have worked with him on a few projects. However, I've also pointed out to him in public on AGW that I think his slamming of HTC is way overboard and not justified.
Your first reply set the combative tone for this thread at the outset. I direct you to the AH 1.06 released thread on AGW, where AGW denizens showed a lot more tact, IMO, when provided with info on developments in the genre. Cause that's really what it's all about - we all love flight sims.
I don't feel threatened because his favorite is coming out with a new improved product on par with what I like.
Again, don't put opinions in my mouth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) WB is by no means my favorite. I haven't flown WB in at least 4 months. I merely said I think it looks good for a first-look beta and shows promise. I like to give people credit when I feel they deserve it.
Spitboy -SW-
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It is a beautiful screenshot. Competition is good. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I just got out of a offline session with wb3. Unfortunately my P2 333 is just under min specs. Everything else is at min spec.
Still, I could get around ok. I like the terrain, Nice fuzzy feel to it from a distance. The planes look good. Im using the hires cokpits and was disappointed, they look like 2.7 but understand these are still being developed.
I didnt like the way I had to load my 8 views into memory. Unfortunately, the tracers and hitflashes still look like 2.7. The smoke and flame look alot like EAW.
I am going to spend more time with it, but until I upgrade I wont torture myself online
with it.
AH does appear finally to at least have a neighborhood competitor with WB3s. My take is AH v1.6 is still quite a bit advanced along developement lines and overall user interface options, but WB3s use of custom skins and modular design allowing for community aid in developement (adding GVs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) still makes WB3 extremely viable in the long haul if these things come to fruition.
WTG I guess for the folks at iEN (considering how long this has taken). With some work WB3 (and an PC upgrade) just might be worth an account for this AH afficianado.
Until then,
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 03-14-2001).]
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Cool Screen shot! Have to wander over to have a look see! Competition is good! Will keep HTC on their toes. They are already, but they need to stay that way.
Thanks for the look joness!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Graphics look nice...but that's to be expected. Tracers still look odd, but will likely be fixed. From what it looks like they're using a whole lot more polygons than AH does--hence the higher requirements.
Sounds are about what can be expected. Somewhat better than the AH default sounds, but nothing incredible, quite similar to the previous release.. Flightsims these days seem to skimp on the sounds--probably expect community to make better ones anyway.
Cockpits....basically the same as WB2, except seem to have added 3D support.
FM....didn't get to fly around much due to throttle problems, but seems like a cross between WB2 and AH--overall feels like AH, but still has that "mushy" feeling from WB2.
Damage model...lord knows.
Interface--reeks of "beta". They definately have a lot more work in this area.
Seems like a good release, but unquestionably not a finished product. Brings WB's technology up to that of AH, and possibly a hair beyond. I still like AH better.
J_A_B
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Nice screen, but they forgot the ventral turret AGAIN. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Eye candy looks sweet! Let me know when they get to the flight, gunnery, and damage model improvements and I'll give her a whirl!
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Westy, mac users already paid MORE for less (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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OFF TOPIC !!! (sorry I just had to type that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
Downloading it right now; Is there something I should know before installation?
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<copy and paste>
<YAWN>
You can take an old ugly hooker off the street, bath her and give her a new dress.
Shes STILL going to be an old ugly hooker under the fresh wrapper.
The HTC team did a fine job in developing WB... they surpassed it long ago with Aces High.
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Say what you want, the clouds look like clouds. Real actual clouds, in layers, and moving filmy traces.
Lovely things.
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As you can probably tell from others that have downloaded the beta, there's really nothing to get all excited about yet. A finished product is a L-O-N-G way off.
bowser
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Jihad, The problem with your analogy is that HTC is the one who applied the makeup to the Hooker and gave her the new dress. WBIII is a totally different engine and crew.
Not to stir it up, just pointing that out.
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Looks pretty nice. No shark teeth square beach tiles and smog monsters. Matter fact, that terrain is a sight for SORE eyes.
Ill pay for it, why not?
And Ill answer that myself after trying it.
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Downloaded it and tryed it about an hour.
Well its still a beta but from cockpit Spits (XIV) wings looked too small ?
Some other issues came up too but its still a beta, Let's wait the real thing.
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I'm eager to see what Creamo thinks about it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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It doesn't live up to the hype that was posted on the AGW. They say it's better than AH. No, not by a long shot. The full version might be out before Christmas, but by then AH will be even better. Is WBIII beter than AH?
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Lt. Col. Aaron "txace-" Giles of the 457th BG
"Fait Accompli"
In arena: semperfi
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Wb is not better in the FM, Gunnery, Balistics but i think they are going to get into detailed damge modeling.
Eye candy is just that! Comparable graphics. Also keep in mind that HT has allway kept the Program very small. Great for guys on modem to download.
But, my main Item above all is the FM. Really the only thing that im concerned about. Ive kept my WB account open all this time just to see how WBIII feels. Tonight i will decide if i cancel it or not. Ive been waiting for FM changes.
Dog out.........
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I can't believe I just wasted an hour on that.
I work in software QA. I've worked on both games and productivity software. I have a preety good idea what kinds of changes happen while going from beta to Gold Master.
Its CRAP as it stands now and it is so crappy that I have severe doubts about IEN's ability to fix it.
CRAP!!!
BTW, I played WarBirds and have nothing against IEN. If they produce a quality enough sim, I'd sign up. This is just my professional opinion as a Quality Assurance Engineer: CRAP!!!
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Wardog, remember that WBIII beta right now is mostly a graphics update. I dont think they did much to the FM but if you wait for future updates im sure they will be adjusted.
And karnak, nice reasons you have there. Im sure a QAE would have to give lots of reasons in his field of work....
joness
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Staga, you can change the FoV, between 55,70 and 90 degrees. At 55 degrees, the planesizes starts to look real!.
Tracers, smoke, flames are still all placeholders.
Only 4 planes got 3D cockpits sofar, Zero, 109E, F4U and one more(cant remember).
Viewsystem..well it's there :P.
It does though appear that every round is modelled now. (you can get hitsprites on ground without seeing a tracer).
Sisu, I've been beta-testing on a few big applications as well and I've seen beta software in a far worse state than that and still come out on top at the end...but there's not doubt about it...still a lot of work to be done...and more than that..it seems reasonably stable too!. (Which is highly surprising <G> ).
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
This is Yardstick, follow me"
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Does anyone else notice the horizontal axis seems squished? Looking straight down on a plane from external view a wingspan aligned in the vertical is about 1/2 inch longer than in the horizontal. It also makes the f6f side view look real stubby like an f4f.
Maybe its just my machine, but it was noticeable in 1280x1024 and in 1024x768.
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It crashed within 2 minutes of use on my system.
I'm not saying that it isn't possible that the final product could be good. I'm just saying that this sure looks bad right now.
And yes, I have seen worse things that were "beta". Mind you, they sucked when they were released though.
Daff,
I'm Karnak, not "Sisu". Sisu is a Finnish word that means "What must be done, will be done, regardless of the cost".
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Well, without a system (waiting for the new processor to come in) I won't say one thing about how bad or good it is, but WBIII will have to really outperform AH for me to get an account there next to my AH one. And there no chance in hell that I'd drop my AH account for iEN, and I'm sure that most people here agree. So HTC has little to worry about right now.
However it'll be interesting to see what gets added to AH in the coming months with WBIII and WWIIgeneralsonallthetimeOnlin e being released. In the end, it's better for us, the players, because you'll see some great features and price wars..
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downloaded it,tryed it and it sucks. nothing but a little eye candie.
same game new grafix
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WWIIgeneralsonallthetimeOnlin e
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) sounds like something Id come up with!
I generally (no pun intended) liked what I saw in the initial release. Understanding clearly that it is a basic release for testing. The key will be what it is like in 6/12 months.
In the meantime, the WB loyalists are finally getting something serious to chew on.
Im happy for em. Born and raised there.
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 03-15-2001).]
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I have'nt DL it. Probably wont. Dont have enough puter anyway. But, I am suprised at the flames about it. Why any of us would be unhappy about a new WW2 sim coming out, is beyond me.
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Well one reason might be that is just
"OFF TOPIC" like Staga said before.
nice Graphics, but what is that ugly purple sky supposed to be, is that mars atmosphere (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)?
Maik
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I dunno about anyone else but when i fired up the prop engines i got this wierd spinning square insted of the spinning prop, i also got little squares for tracers, bomb blasts, rocket blasts, and fire..
NOT impressed.
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Originally posted by Sancho:
It is a beautiful screenshot. Competition is good. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
\
Could not agree more! As stated in another forum by me.. Look what the Japanese did for the American Autombile industry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://home.nc.rr.com/ammo/public.html/unw_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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I gotta say I'm not overly impressed with it so far, although it does have a couple of nice 'features' that would go well in AH.
1. Gun shaking in buffs (although possibly a bit overdone in WBIII)
2. Those nice misty, hazy cloud layers.
Apart from that, nothing to get too excited about. Graphics seem 'OK' but there are some glaring oddities. Try the Ki84, stop the propeller and take a good look at it. Looks like something knocked together in 5 seconds with an arc welder and a couple of Coke cans (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
But, it has promise.
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Somebody say something about hookers???? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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PakRat
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://home.att.net/~ahpakrat/pakrat.jpg)
"I see dead people"
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someone tell me if the Fw190 initial rollrate sucks as much as it did in WBs2.7
If it does, then I wont waste any minute in downloading it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Well, preferences and differences aside, I'm glad the WB community finally got their graphics upgrade, and I'm sure they will continue to improve, so far, they are following the trail the HiTech has blazed, and you can bet more of what they implement will be concepts already used here, which, for their community, is a GOOD thing!...that being said, WTG iEN, and congrats to their player base, ya finally got 'there'. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/Mag33-Blank-Sig-22.gif)
~Death Rattlers~
Member of 'MAG-33' (Click here) (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/M3.html)
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/vmf323inquirer.html)
Click here for interviews with other Aces High Squadrons (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/SPOTLIGHT1.html)
"Anytime you can engage, and disengage the enemy at will,
you have already won 1/2 the battle before merging.."
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-15-2001).]
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"same game new grafix"
Hehe, not the same game by a long shot.
Lots of new features added, lots changed, and lots can be done with this engine, were as the old 2.77 was maxed out.
This link might help you a bit:
http://www.dogfighter.com/interviews/show.php3?interview=984006498 (http://www.dogfighter.com/interviews/show.php3?interview=984006498)
[This message has been edited by sky_bax (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Spitboy I honestly wrote what I did with a very neutral tone and demeanor. Never meant or intended it to be combative in nature.
IMO, WB III is still in an early beta state. Look at the glaring problems. The FM feels like a Cessna would if it was in AirWarrior "RR" and there are so many graphical problems I'm amazed they were not fixed before this was releases. Yes, it is a beta so I'll play nice and compare WB III to AH when WB III goes pay to play. That's only fair.
But I will give my opinion as we're all so apt to do in both camps on what is out..
I suspect it was released too early and into a "so called" "open beta" for marketing reasons. To try and retain or gain desperately needed financial backing for the company and to help retain the fence sitters who are tired of WB 2.xx and the connects. WB III doesn't need a load test. It hasn't made it that far. If they think it has the WB customers are being ripped.
I've participated in several beta's and IMO the WB III release is by far the least finished and polished given to players to test.
As for the clouds? Aye yie yie. I guess it's al a case of what you *want* to see. I run in 1024X768, 32bit mode. It runs fine. These "clouds" look like the thin whispy smoke one would see in a grave yard scene from a Bela Lugosi horror flick. Flying into the layer (it's so thin I hesitate to call them clouds) is *very* realistic, but then your breifly in them and there is no substance. Suddenly you're through to the upper side and looking around at this thin whisp of "smoke" Going back down through them is very weird as it looks like diving thru a watered down layer of skim milk.
Is it better than what the WB player had? MAC customers? Absolutely. But for the rest the current WB III is like a half way house on the way to the real thing. I'll comment when it's out. No more from me now as it's not warranted. Most folks see the same things I do. Be they here or even in AGW.
-Westy
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All I care about... Are there still "micro warps"? Do planes have six views that are anywhere close to as well done as the AH ones yet? Does the Corsair still have 1500 HP? Are they still stuck in "allied Vs axis"?
lazs
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At least WB3 won't have the "well done AH" Linda Blair 6 view.
You won't like it, Lazs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Lem
(http://www.lemsko.de/3d/shoot.gif)
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Noticed it still has the horrible roll interita modelling.
When a FW-190 has a worse initial roll than a twin engined SE-2 Islander, it leads me to believe it might not be modelled accurately.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsanta.tripod.com/stSanta.jpg)
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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I don't have a problem with WB's introduction of their new effort, however, regarding loyalty to a particular sim, WB's and IEN don't deserve my loyalty. In comparison to the customer service and frequency of upgrades and overall growth of AH, IEN has fallen pitifully short of the mark.
Now I realize I'm in the minority, and that loyalty regarding these sims may not be high on most peoples list. I will choose to remain with those who have made the effort to support my hobby and will not support a company who milked its player base until AH began to get in its pocket deeply enough to warrant a change.
I am happy for the WB's community...they have been loyal to their sim and most certainly deserve a better product.
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Ice
13thTAS
It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!
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Heck, anyone can see that the version available is totally unfinished and a lot of work has to be done untill it can be called a playable game..
It's a big improvement over 2.xx WB but still a lot less from what I expected.
There are games that look better (like CFS2 patched..) There are games that promise more (WW2OL unreleased) but there is only one game where I feel the joy of air combat.. And thats Aces High. Some claim our FM arcadish (maybe the E reserving part of it is) but it really feels playable and I can 'sense' the controls..
That's something I still wait to find from any competitor.
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Originally posted by Macchi:
At least WB3 won't have the "well done AH" Linda Blair 6 view.
You won't like it, Lazs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Lem
(http://www.lemsko.de/3d/shoot.gif)
Lem, I understand you are a very big part of WBIII, but why can't you just keep your mind 'open' and be constructive, rather than acting like a juvenille?
This prospective you view of HT's 3D cockpits
doesn't quite give the advantage you think it does...
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I act like i want as long as i live in the "free" part of the world.
And i prefer simulations where cockpits look like the real ones.
Lem
[This message has been edited by Macchi (edited 03-15-2001).]
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You guys crack me up. You slag WB for having an imperfect beta, cheerlead AH, but if you read the HTC board, you can still see plenty of squeaking about what you have here. Go figure.
Reminds me of the old joke Woody Allen used to tell in his stand up days. Two old Jewish ladies eating lunch in a restaurant. One says,"This food is lousy", and the other one says "yeah, and such small portions too".
Its all good guys. Don't take it personally that their trying to improve the product. HS has let out enough rope, lets see if makes a lasso to corral some new customers, or hangs himself with it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Lugnut
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Originally posted by Macchi:
I act like i want as long as i live in the "free" part of the world.
Lem
Well, as part of the WBIII team, you certainly are not helping out the customer base...you must feel threatened by AH if you must resort to slamming it.
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Careful there Rip, that same logic could be applied to everyone who comes over to AGW from here to beat up on the kids in the schoolyard (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Lug
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Originally posted by Lugnut:
Careful there Rip, that same logic could be applied to everyone who comes over to AGW from here to beat up on the kids in the schoolyard (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Lug
Lug, show me one post where I slammed WB's.
Also, only once I posted about AH (originating thread) in the Main forum, all my other postings were in OT.
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Come on Rip,
where did i slammed AH please.
I am a player and i have my opinions. Don't come with the old "you have to hold a different standard than we" crap.
Lem
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If you re-read, you'll notice I didn't single you out, mearly pointing out that there have been many folks (here) who aren't bashful about bashing WBs (no pun intended). Are they feeling threatened by iEN? Not likely.
Lug
(edited for spelling. I should have used the spellcheck feature, which AGW would do well to adopt, if for no other eason than HS' tentative grasp of English)
[This message has been edited by Lugnut (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by Macchi:
Come on Rip,
where did i slammed AH please.
I am a player and i have my opinions. Don't come with the old "you have to hold a different standard than we" crap.
Lem
No, I am not going to do the homework of repeatably pulling up everyone of your posts slamming AH in AGW, nope, sorry, ain't gonna play that game. You know, I know, the communities know.
"Opinions" fall into two catagories:
One that is delivered with constructive criticism...
One that is delivered with saracasm (Juvenille).
You just happen to voice your opinion with the latter.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-15-2001).]
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You won't do it, because you won't find any posts in AGW where i slammed AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Lem
P.S.: did you ever looked into a mirror Rip?
[This message has been edited by Macchi (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Its funny, you know.
half of the posts in here is about how WBIII
stink, yet almost none have actually tried it.(atleast not on the min-system-req system)
and for you Ripl.
You post your AH posts on AGW and demands
the AGW crowd should be tolerant with what you post, yet when someone from Warbirds post
anything here, you start a rant.
To the AH community
Play your AH game, enjoy it, and we will play ours (WBIII) no need for idiot comments.
If you have constructive critisism you are most welcome to post it on the AGW board.
if not, be quiet.
Peter
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Aside from all this bickering which isn't doing anyone any good at all, WBIII looks really good. I haven't gotten to fly it yet as I am at work, but she sure is a memory hog. I'm know there are bugs to work out so I'm looking forward to trying it out at home.
Congrats on Warbirds III (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Time for this to go to the off-topic forum before the thugs come in and start a real war.
Face it folks - no one will ever know if one FM is more realistic then another. Never. A couple reasons why could be that most of these aircraft have never been flown by anyone involved in the devolpment of the game (and probably not by the customers, either) and also that even with the correct 'data', no *computer game* will ever simulate the feeling of flight perfectly.
I like AH. I was one of those who ditched iEN for my own reasons when the beta came out for Aces High. There are some who did the same, some who stayed behind, and some who just showed up on the scene.
Are we all that different? (mostly) bunch of adults whose actions remind me of the jr. high school mentality.
Give it up - WBIII is WBIII. AH is AH. Most all of you have made up your minds already, and no amount of arguing on this board will change them.
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Originally posted by Macchi:
You won't do it, because you won't find any posts in AGW where i slammed AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Lem
P.S.: did you ever looked into a mirror Rip?
[This message has been edited by Macchi (edited 03-15-2001).]
Well, here's one sample: Warps and Flic rolls, please read this thread from THC, err i mean HTC
Of course, the other samples are all threads that can be found in a seach, but cannot be read (gee, wonder why that is Lem?)
And yes, I have looked in the mirror. I use constructive criticism. I don't *have* to resort to your sarcastic tactics, because I am more mature than you, sir. Have a nice day!
Fjoder: again, show me where I have been sarcastic in my analysis of Warbirds.
I believe constructive criticism is best for both communities! When it turns into a 'whos got the best'.well, you get threads like this! Expect this one to be locked, unfortunately, since the sarcasm stones have been cast by both communities.
Fjoder, please continue to post about WBIII in our Off-topic forum, I for one am interested in following the development of any online sime (as I *thought* you might be when I posted about AH in the Off-topic of your board)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by Lugnut:
You guys crack me up. You slag WB for having an imperfect beta, cheerlead AH, but if you read the HTC board, you can still see plenty of squeaking about what you have here. Go figure.
Reminds me of the old joke Woody Allen used to tell in his stand up days. Two old Jewish ladies eating lunch in a restaurant. One says,"This food is lousy", and the other one says "yeah, and such small portions too".
Its all good guys. Don't take it personally that their trying to improve the product. HS has let out enough rope, lets see if makes a lasso to corral some new customers, or hangs himself with it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Lugnut
Just to point out Lugnut that you WB guys have been squeaking about one thing or another on your board just like we have. It's either the connects, or the lopsided allies/axis, lack of WBIII updates (finally alleviated) etc..
Just another case of the pot calling the kettle black. (or whatever saying that is)
edit - spellchecked... and as I did that, it's been moved to OT. Thanks Pyro.
[This message has been edited by Moose11 (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Rofl Rip,
thats all you can bring up here.
You don't need sarcastics? You are 1 of the best examples of "talking this, but doin that" guys.
I let your imagination that you a more mature than me stay, because otherwise it would kill you that a stinking european anarchist is above your bigotte morale standpoints
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Never i have seen 1 guy putting the "What is slamming" standard so low like you.
Lem
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Agreed, we've all slagged each other at some point, as well as our "own" sims. No one lives in a glass house anymore, we all just stand piles of broken glass holding rocks, point at the neighbors and say "Look at what you did to my house". Call me an unintended hypocrite, I can handle it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
FWIW, I don't fly WBs anymore, nor AH, nor anyflight sim for that matter. I completed my 12 step program and cured my addiction (with a little help from iEN). Only sim I play anymore is GPL, which never seems to get old to me. I *may* try WB3 once it makes it past its premature birth into beta status, but for now I don't feel like pumping another $1,000 into my PC just to play more games. Se le guerre'.
Lug
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Lem you've done it. No need to try and put a different spin on it nor gloss over the fact. Maybe it's a language thing. Whatever. Just don't try to roadkill people.
-Westy
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I just played WBIII offline at 1280x1024x32Bit T&L..
The sky looks better than 2.xx, terrain even that it now has hills looks much worse IMHO.
The planes feel like theyre hanging in air, they are sluggish and there's no sense of compressibility as speed increases.. Compared to Aces High its amazingly easy to raise the nose of any plane at any given speed (minimum stall speed excluded.)
Of course this is because the FM hasn't been touched since 2.xx all the old quirks are still there. One thing I did like and that is the massive torque effect on f4u when taking off.. Feels more like the plane they called the 'ensign eliminator.'
The aircraft showed a bit more detail, however due to the fact that most effects are still missing the game looked barren. Shooting tennis-balls to planes without seeing much as a result unless exploding the plane on a pilot kill..
The release of WBIII is long overdue and they still have a LOT of work to be done..
All I can say is good luck to you IEN folks, I hope you will be finished soon in the future. In the meanwhile I'll play AH and will check WW2OL if there's anything to check anyway =)
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Just curious, is this a mid-air explosion?
If so, it needs some work...I know, I know, its beta!
(http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbpoges/wb3_02.jpg)
and...a side by side terrain comparison:
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ahss6.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-15-2001).]
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No offense skybax, but I read that article, and HS pretty much says, "Same game, new grafix". Sure, he promises lots of changes, but they're all slated for the future.
I'm happy that you guys have WBIII, and I'll admit, it is very pretty. I sincerely hope you guys get all the changes iEN has promised you. Er sorry, that's probably disingenous: HS spends half his time explaining why WBIII isn't what he promised, and the other half promising stuff that will be added in later.
Let me rephrase:
I honestly hope you folks get the best game possible. And if in the future it turns out that WB3 is the best game on the market, I won't feel threatened. Hell, I'll probably sign up.
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I do have to say that many of the aircraft look REAL nice from an external POV. Makes good PR screen shots. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
But they absolutely stink when sitting in them and looking out. And I "fly" my planes in the first person pov. The P-38 has the midsection of each boom invisible, the Spitfire has elevators for wings, the F6F wings look like crap, the 109 same, the P-51B cokcpit is a P-51D with a hideous "B" canopy overlay. The list goes on.
Not much appears to have changed when looking at screen shots from even November of last year.
And the fired rounds/tracers look like flaming tennis balls. Not bad. Just different.
HS is walking around with a big stick alright. And it's passing from one ear through to the other.
-Westy
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Well, I have it, and I played it for a while.
You can't deny the terrain looks great. Clouds, sky, ground, everyhting looks like it is better than AH, I didn't like the funky water, though.
HOWEVER. I understand it is just a beta, and with that understanding, I'm comparing a beta to a full release. AH, in my opinion, is just more entertaining. It is more "real" to me, who has never piloted a real plane. I know they have work to do, and will fix it up, but for now, I still prefer AH. Competition is good, as many havee said, and I can't wait for HTC to answer to those clouds, especially... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Greese:
You can't deny the terrain looks great. Clouds, sky, ground, everyhting looks like it is better than AH, I didn't like the funky water, though.
Did you see my screen shot comparison up above? Is that what the terrain looks like or is Brendo's screen capture doing it no justice?
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the think I'll never get, guys, is the NEED you have to slam each other because you prefer one or another simulation...this goes to both WB and AH sides regarding each other, and regarding WWIIOL, Il2 or whatever else.
If you dont feel threatened, then why do you say a single thing?. I've downloaded the game, have tested it, and I wont say a single thing about good or bad things -apart of the already known roll inertia problem in the 190-. I'm staying here because I like AH more than Wb, but I dont feel the overriding desire to slam the "other" simulation that some people here feel so hard.
If you like AH, stay there and get fun. If you like WBs, stay there and get fun.
But what is the purpose on jumpin' on each other's throat trying to yell the loudest "YOUR SIM SUCKS"?.
It reminds me of my parvular years,when I was four years old... with those "my daddy is richer than yours" or "my toy is purtier than yours" discussions...and when the language teacher came to stop a kid calling the other kid names, both little kids say "he does the same with me in the Maths class, teacher!"
yep, I think that we have a VERY similar case here....
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 03-15-2001).]
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That's not a real fair comparison, Rip (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
How about this one:
(http://wrecks.org/nice2.jpg)
(http://ripsnort60.tripod.com/ahss6.jpg)
That shows a good comparison of a plane against terrain in the two engines. The WB shot was on my Athlon 700, 256 RAM, Geforce 2 MX, at 1024 res and 16 bit color.
Spitboy -SW-
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Ah. I do see the same clouds you do. Looks like spilled milk. Maybe they'll get better.
No doubt the external views of the aircraft look really nice.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Thks Spit!~ Say, do they have any puffy clouds that you can actually lose your opponent in?
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My understanding of the clouds is this is simply their first pass. HS said elsewhere there were 16 different cloud layer types, and this was just the first one.
I'm not sure which type I like better - the big puffy ones or these whispy ones. From flying offline against the drones, at high alt, I saw it was possible to lose your opponent if you found a thick band. The ideal would be an arena that could sport both depending on the weather of the day, I think (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Spitboy -SW-
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I'd like both, where appropriate.
Anyway. This is the last word from me on WB III beta.
<cues up Peggy Lee's 'Is That All There Is...">
See ya when the pay-to-play mark is reached.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Actually I think Rip's comparison was better concerning the terrain. IMHO the one rip provided has less clouds obscuring the ground. Hence "terrain comparison".
(http://home.swbell.net/r-azar/vmfBF.gif)
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Originally posted by Westy:
I'd like both, where appropriate.
Anyway. This is the last word from me on WB II beta.
<cues up Peggy Lee's 'Is that al there is...">
See ya when the pay-to-play mark is hit.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
No way!? The Warbirds 2 beta is already out!?! How did I miss it?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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===>Frosty
====>Exposure2k.com
=====>Frosty@exposure2k.com
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Thks Spit!~ Say, do they have any puffy clouds that you can actually lose your opponent in?
Actually, yeah.
The clouds are randomly generated, in various thickness.
It's all very realistic if you give it a shot- just follow the tail "wisps" to the thicker stuff.
I'll admit that they aren't as thick as they *should* be, but you can get lost in the thicker stuff.
Do AH's clouds still not conceal the Icon?
-Reb
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Originally posted by Rebel:
Do AH's clouds still not conceal the Icon?
-Reb
?
If you mean when the other person is behind them or in them. Yes. If you mean when you are in them and someone else is not. Yes. If you mean when you are both in them and are no more than 100yds away from them. Yes
In other words, the icons disappear in the clouds.
-SW
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Rip, that flash is a hit sprite from being hit by one of the bombers guns.
One of the graphical features (only thing in this update as I understand) I like in this beta WBIII is the appearance of the ground down low. It dissolves into a somewhat higher resolution, than what it appears from altitude.
It's a bit hard to explain, but noticeable when looking for it.
Since AH has alot of actions going on at/by the ground this feature is something that should be looked into implementing into AH. From screenshots I have seen this is also present in IL-2.
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Rgr, thks guys!, (see Lem, once ya knock the B.S. out, we can communicate!)
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If you mean when the other person is behind them or in them. Yes. If you mean when you are in them and someone else is not. Yes. If you mean when you are both in them and are no more than 100yds away from them. Yes. In other words, the icons disappear in the clouds.
Wow! Deep breath, buddy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Thanks- The last version I flew didn't do that. Pretty cool effect, 'no?
-Reb
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(http://ripsnort60.tripod.com/ahss6.jpg)
Yeah and whats so great about it?
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Originally posted by Rebel:
Wow! Deep breath, buddy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Thanks- The last version I flew didn't do that. Pretty cool effect, 'no?
-Reb
Very cool effect. I wasn't trying to come off as condescending or argumentative. I just didn't know which of those 3 answers I gave your question was directed at, so I gave all 3 so I wouldn't have to post 2 more times until I got it right. :-)
-SW
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Fjoder said:
To the AH community
Play your AH game, enjoy it, and we will play ours (WBIII) no need for idiot comments.
If you have constructive critisism you are most welcome to post it on the AGW board.
if not, be quiet.
Fjoder: To the WB community. Play your WB game, enjoy it, and we will play ours (AH) with no need for idiot comments. If you have constructive critisism [sic] you are most welcome to post it on the AGW board. if not, be quiet.
(In case you didn't notice, this thread was started by a WB cheerleader who felt the need to trumpet the beta release on OUR board. Go away.)
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Compare the P-51B's from WBIII and AH, since they sport the same markings.
While the WB P-51B looks nice and all, the wing proportions are way off, something that is rather prevalent in most of the planes. The much higher use of polygons and the lighting effects are very good though, as is the dissolution of a texture into a bump map at low altitudes. There were alot of interesting little things that have pretty much been passover by Aces High, I'd assume mainly to keep system specs down. Things like rolling gear, cowl flaps, and certain aspects that help immersion some. Granted one tends to forget about that when trying to avoid a vulch.
AH still has some clipping issues that have been around forever, but it's not even worth comparing the cockpit art to WB. Aces High definately wins there, even when comparing to the early beta shots of AH.
I like the clouds in WBIII, they remind me of the cirrus clouds down here in Texas. When flying around in the WB clouds there transparency does tend to reflect what flying through a real cirrus cloud is like, much like what AH does with cumulus clouds. The transistion in AH is a little to cut and dryed, but it saves frame rates. The sun rises are pretty well done in WBIII, as the one in AH is. I still think the sunrise in AH has to much orange -- it should intially but the orange bleed over into the remainer of the sky seems a bit overdone.
Over all I like the lighting effects and overall feel eyecandy in WBIII, although other then that the game hasn't changed much from what I could tell. Kind of like AW2 3D on steroids, if anyone remembers that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) The aluminum reflection was interesting, but it reflects more of a well polished airshow plane then an airforce work horse. But it's still some great lighting work.
WBIII is going to need to make some headway in interface, incockpit features, cockpit art, gunnery, other effects, flight model attributes, if nothing else, the graphics engine looks promising.
Far as gameplay goes I just haven't found anything that beats AH.
I ran in in 1600X1280X32 everything was very smooth overall, but lots of weird bugs in this beta version.
I run AH in the same resolution. I'd consider it's detail a mix between, say AH and CFSII cranked all the way up.
- Bess
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I don't know what the WB guys are complaining about in this thread. The comments from the AH guys who have tried it, have been rather "gentle" I think. That's because we realize it's only a beta. If WBs was judged on it's own merits right now as it is, without the excuse of being a beta product, THEN you would really have something to be upset about.
bowser
[This message has been edited by bowser (edited 03-15-2001).]
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"(In case you didn't notice, this thread was started by a WB cheerleader who felt the need to trumpet the beta release on OUR board. Go away.)"
Pot, this is Kettle...
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
This is Yardstick, follow me"
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So far: A graphics update, and nothing more.
Oh, wait - they have drop tanks now. And you can have custom skins on your aircraft.
The FM/DM etc. is still 2.77.
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Daff that is roadkill. I have never started a thread on AGW about AH. I have never made a post announcing a new release. But if somebody started a discussion about AH I have jumped in and expressed myself.
In any case I am not complaining about Joness' post. Fjoder is the one I have an issue with.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Graphics:
Planes - look great
Terrain- just different textures
Clouds - nice, that's all
Sky - purple
FM:
Worse than WB2.XX
Overall:
More Alpha than Beta (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).
What to hell those guys are doin here???
Just my opinion.
Maik
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No, you have have never started a thread about AH, but you have certainly commented sarcasticly/negativly about WB compared to AH on AGW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
This is Yardstick, follow me"
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Originally posted by Daff:
No, you have have never started a thread about AH, but you have certainly commented sarcasticly/negativly about WB compared to AH on AGW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Daff
Are we all 5 year olds in here or just plain idiots?
Sheesh guys, I hear better arguements from my 6 and 4 year olds.
If everyone hates each other this much then why lurk on each other's boards??? You'd think you wouldn't even want to hear or see them! Step back and look how stupid this appears.
Fly the damn sims and have fun in each of 'em. What is so hard about that?
Cobra
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What I tried to say was:
first of all, you are looking at a first beta release, very far away from a final release which unfortunally we wont see for the next 3 months. so I dont understand the ranting.
According to Interviews its just a BETA
features will be added, bugs will be removed.
FMs will be changed etc etc etc
When it comes to a final release, you can start ranting about features and bugs etc.
not now.
Funked: I've seen you bad mouthing WB in many posts. its ok, you are entitled to your opinion. What I tried to say was:
I was just stating, you should play your sim and I should play mine, and we should both enjoy our sims. not trashtalking the other sim. its so pointless, we should act in a mature way, not on a kindergartenlevel.
Enough already.
Peter
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Juzz, its just a video update really, especially if you consider that only a very few aircraft have 3D cockpits, and most are using the old 2D ones.
The drop tanks are just place holders, and you can't actually use the fuel in them right now, according to a post by Hotseat.
I think its great that the WB's guys finally got their new version, and I hope things go well for them.
I just hope that Hotseat starts to come thru with all his promises on "new features" like new planes and fixs for some of the age old bugs, or it could start some serious discontent.
Congrats WB's guys ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Quote:
"Terrain- just different textures"
Its MUCH more than that.
DF: At the conference and in subsequently released screenshots and videos a Grand Canyon display terrain has been used. Terrain in WBIII is generated by a procedural level of detail rendering system calling upon altitude and positional data rather than fixed art files. What terrain is planned for the open Beta, and, more importantly, how easily are new locales created with future expansion in mind?
HS: The procedural generated terrain system has been scaled back. Apple was very late releasing OpenGL 1.2. Soon after we received the software, it became very clear that our system was going to overstress the Mac platform. We were forced to re-design the entire terrain system to place less demand on the processor. The new system, which was just recently completed, is still semi-procedural, however it relies on a limited tile system. Since we have only recently started to work with the new system, terrain tiles / textures will be limited in the Beta release. Even with the scaled back procedural system, terrains can still be built very quickly.
The Beta terrain will consist of southern England / Wales, northern France at a scale of 2 to 1. The terrain point resolution (the distance between terrain points) will be 100 meters. We can go as low as 25m, depending on platform, however I believe 100m will give every one of the testers quite a shock. The terrain for the first Beta took about a day to produce versus the weeks the current terrain requires. Even so, our artist are building new tiles, and we are all still trying to figure out what "looks right" since traditional terrain tiles don't look very good in the high definition system of WB III.
The important part of the WBIII terrain system is the data point resolution. Many of our Campaign Managers (CMs) want to make terrains that require very small islands to be displayed, which is just not possible in other flight sims. Many small islands around France are now very visible / useful in the WBIII Beta terrain. Let me also add, our terrain is not only precise above ground, but also below sea level, should the need arise.
The ocean floor & water are modeled.
If you fly low over coast line you can see the ocean floor in shallow waters.
Ctrl / O (I think) reduces the sea level and you can view the ocean floor.
This terrian is more than just some different textures and fixed art files like in WB2 & AH.
[This message has been edited by sky_bax (edited 03-16-2001).]
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Lets start talking about AH v2.0
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Y
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From SeaWulfe:
Very cool effect. I wasn't trying to come off as condescending or argumentative. I just didn't know which of those 3 answers I gave your question was
directed at, so I gave all 3 so I wouldn't have to post 2 more times until I got it right. :-)
-SW
Didn't take it like that at all! Was a very informing and calm-natured post (unlike some others in here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ).
All I was referring too with the "deep breath" crack was just imagining some poor bugger trying to say all that in one sentence! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Missin' y'all in AH- I always loved to fight the AK's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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-Rebel
"You Rebel Scum"
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I honestly don't put much worth into what Hotseat says as I do in what I see from him and his team.
Hotseast talks out of both sides of his arse. When you think he's clear as a bell he's as ambiguous as anyone possibly could be.
You do make a good chear leader Skybax.
-Westy
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It seems that WBIII is heavily burdened by the Mac users.. They have to do a double job on everything and that IMHO is what will eventually drop them from the development speed of the competitors.
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These mini pseudo-flamewars between AH and WB's are a good reason as to why saying negative things about a game on its own forumn should be avoided when possible. It just creates hard feelings.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
J_A_B
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OK Fjoder you are making more sense now, <S>!
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This is my first post on an AH board and was prompted by Ripsnort's postings on the AGW board. And then coming over here and reading some threads.
That shot of Spitboy's of the b25 was taken on a Mac. As a Mac user I am very pumped with this release.
I would kinda agree with MrSid's comments about dealing with the Mac's vagarities slowing developement, but WBIII has captured 10% of the gaming market right there. In any business, 10% is nothing to sneeze about especially in a highly competetive environment like this one.
I would love to give AH a shot, I'm not bound by any loyalty to one developer, but it doesn't sound as if that's going to happen.
Macs are starting to come on as a gaming platform (GeForce 3 for example) but are probably going to keep lagging a bit behind because of market share. We all have high hopes with the Unix based OSX, but the bottom line is we're not going away (crosses fingers) and will remain an alternative to the windows people.
I really, really, really don't want this to degenerate into a platform war, but I did want to point out that we're out there, and we'll play and put our dollars to whatever we have available.
Fate
ps: Hotseat is a bit of a dickhead, but he does do what he's says he'll do and altho he pissed me off with many mac comments, he generally speaks the truth.
Fear and loathing in a one vendor world.