Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on May 29, 2005, 01:22:32 PM
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just saw a news report that the IRAQI defense forces are fighting back and actually won a major battle by repelling a terrorist attack on a police station.
They (IRAQIS) are also conducting operations in bahgdad to thwart and respond to all the recent bombings.
This to me is the best kind of news coming out of that country. One of the major goals of the US exit strategy is to have IRAQIS provide for their own security.
Kudos to them!
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whatever it costs to pump up their police forces it is worth it. This is how general Abrahms won the war in vietnam and it is the example that everyone dealing with insurgent terrorist forces uses today.
It is the only way to win. the locals know who isn't a local and can best deal with it.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
This is how general Abrahms won the war in vietnam
What version of the war did you learn...the Lott version?
:p :rofl ;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
This is how general Abrahms won the war in vietnam .
lazs
:lol
Which Vietnam war did you win?
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
:lol
Which Vietnam war did you win?
...-Gixer
the one on the ground. At times it was in fact one. Reguardless of your amerihating veiws and history the CURRENT EVENTS OF THIS THREAD TOPIC are relevent and in fact good news
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
the one on the ground. At times it was in fact one. Reguardless of your amerihating veiws and history the CURRENT EVENTS OF THIS THREAD TOPIC are relevent and in fact good news
US won the war on the ground in Vietnam? :confused:
Yes that is a good news story on Iraq, not that theres been allot of details on the story.
And where does Amerihater come from? Is that on old term or one that's just come about during Bush's years in office? :lol
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
:lol
Which Vietnam war did you win?
...-Gixer
the US was winning the war in Vietnam, but lost it at home...
produce a bit of glee there Gixer for you to laugh about the US pulling out of Vietnam? Or is it glee over the 58000+ US deaths?
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popcorn - check
deckchair - check
plenty to smoke - check.
ok, carry on.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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Originally posted by Bodhi
the US was winning the war in Vietnam, but lost it at home...
So what caused them to lose it at home if they were winning on the battlefield in Vietnam? Surely if the war was going well in Vietnam you wouldn't lose public/political support.
Of course there isn't any glee over 58000 dead nor for the millions of Vietnamese killed.
Just curious about the new version of history that I haven't heard before.
...-Gixer
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Great good Iraq story turns into battle over history.
Operation Lightning was launched as a direct challenge to the bloody wave of militant attacks that have killed more than 720 people since the April 28 announcement of Iraq's new Shiite-led government, according to an Associated Press count. At least seven militants died in suicide bombings or gunbattles Sunday.Iraqi security forces will erect 675 checkpoints to try to deter assailants around the city and in areas where attacks are frequent, and begin street-to-street sweeps.
Baghdad will be divided into two sectors, Karkh on the west bank of the Tigris river that separates the city, and Risafa on the east. Karkh will be divided into 15 sub-districts and Risafa into seven sub-districts. Police and emergency personnel will operate 24 hours a day.
It was not known how long the Operation Lighting (search) would last.
Gen. Richard Myers (search), chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the Iraqi performance in the offensive would be an important indication of their readiness to take over security issues, a key part of the U.S. exit strategy from Iraq.
"Clearly what we want to have happen in Iraq is to have Iraqi security forces take charge of their own security. And every day, they're more and more able to do that," he said on "FOX News Sunday."
In western Baghdad, insurgents attacked two police stations, an Iraqi army barracks and a checkpoint within 30 minutes in the Abu Ghraib (search), Amariyah and Khadra neighborhoods, killing three civilians and wounding 15 people, including 10 Iraqi security forces, police officials said.
About 50 gunmen fired rocket-propelled grenades, mortars and machine guns at Baghdad's police Major Crime Unit in Amariyah at about 3:30 p.m. in a half-hour battle. U.S. military spokesman Lt. Col. Clifford Kent said insurgents apparently were trying to break detained militants out of custody, but the attack was repelled by Iraqi police and commandos.
Several minutes later, a car bomb exploded at a nearby Amariyah army barracks and an Iraqi military-controlled checkpoint in Abu Ghraib, the focus of a recent Iraqi-U.S. military operation, dubbed Operation Squeeze Play, a prelude to the current offensive, to clear the volatile area of militants.
About 4 p.m., gunmen attacked Khadra police station during a 15-minute firefight, police Lt. Majid Zaki said.
The Iraqi government said the offensive would continue despite the violence.
"With the escalating operations by security forces, we expect such reactions coming to the surface, but this will have no affect on the operations," Laith Kuba, spokesman for Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, said during a press conference.
An Internet statement released in the name of Al Qaeda in Iraq claimed responsibility for Sunday's attacks, which it said were in response to Operation Lightning and the detention of Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison. The statement's authenticity could not be verified
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Originally posted by Swoop
popcorn - check
deckchair - check
plenty to smoke - check.
ok, carry on.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Sorry to dissapoint I have to leave in a few mins to go flying for the day. :)
...-Gixer
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Aw.....but I wanted to find out how America won in Vietnam and turned it into the shining example of western democracy that it is today.
Wait....er......
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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"FOX News Sunday."
:rofl
For that acurate and balanced reporting. :lol
No wonder I haven't been able to find any detailed information on the events.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
So what caused them to lose it at home if they were winning on the battlefield in Vietnam? Surely if the war was going well in Vietnam you wouldn't lose public/political support.
Of course there isn't any glee over 58000 dead nor for the millions of Vietnamese killed.
Just curious about the new version of history that I haven't heard before.
...-Gixer
Gixer,
The US prsecuted the war in such a way that enraged a fair amount of the populace of the US, aided by the media, they protrayed events that were monority portions of the war (kinda rings a bell in Iraq) as the majority.
In EVERY ground engagement of any size, the US kicked the crap outta the NVA.
Unfortunately for the US, the clips of body bags arriving home on the evening news and the US media helped to trigger a series of events that restricted the US's overall prosecution of the war.
Had the US not had this hampering political influence, the NVA and VC would have been defeated, although it would have meant a long term occupation, along the lines of what is going on now in Iraq.
In the end, political pressure forced us to pull out, and in the end doomed the South Vietnamese Government and it's people to a brutal communist oppressive regime.
Gixer,
Ohh, and my apologies for the laughing about US deaths comment, it was not right.
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Originally posted by Gixer
"FOX News Sunday."
:rofl
For that acurate and balanced reporting. :lol
No wonder I haven't been able to find any detailed information on the events.
...-Gixer
are you saying then that this never happend? or that the AP is misreporting??????
Please go stick your head in some sand and completly ignore what you read then....be my guest.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Gixer,
The US prsecuted the war in such a way that enraged a fair amount of the populace of the US, aided by the media, they protrayed events that were monority portions of the war (kinda rings a bell in Iraq) as the majority.
In EVERY ground engagement of any size, the US kicked the crap outta the NVA.
Unfortunately for the US, the clips of body bags arriving home on the evening news and the US media helped to trigger a series of events that restricted the US's overall prosecution of the war.
Had the US not had this hampering political influence, the NVA and VC would have been defeated, although it would have meant a long term occupation, along the lines of what is going on now in Iraq.
In the end, political pressure forced us to pull out, and in the end doomed the South Vietnamese Government and it's people to a brutal communist oppressive regime.
Gixer,
Ohh, and my apologies for the laughing about US deaths comment, it was not right.
Those are some good points but it dosn't result in changing history. And that America won the war in Vietnam.
As for all your points it's an interesting debate though probably impossible to continue without insults once Nuke arrives. Unfortunetly I have to go check the weather so I'll have to get back to you at a later date.
Thanks. And no worries on the deaths statement.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
are you saying then that this never happend? or that the AP is misreporting??????
Please go stick your head in some sand and completly ignore what you read then....be my guest.
No I just said I'd like to see some other news reports on the matter as Fox certainly have their own way of reporting on events.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
No I just said I'd like to see some other news reports on the matter as Fox certainly have their own way of reporting on events.
...-Gixer
What "way" is that?
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I thought this was about the suicide car bombers switching their insurance company to Geico.
I know it's bad taste but I had to. :D
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Originally posted by Gixer
No I just said I'd like to see some other news reports on the matter as Fox certainly have their own way of reporting on events.
...-Gixer
so you are saying that Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff direct quotes on a news program is biased?
do you not trust the AP either....the facts don't change much considering the article came from them, or are they biased as well?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ?SITE=VTBRA&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&SECTION=HOME
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Originally posted by Swoop
popcorn - check
deckchair - check
plenty to smoke - check.
ok, carry on.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
What are we drinking? :)
culero
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Originally posted by Bodhi
the US was winning the war in Vietnam, but lost it at home...
"And we would have got away with if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!"
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Oral jousting with a chump!!
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Originally posted by Gixer
No I just said I'd like to see some other news reports on the matter as Fox certainly have their own way of reporting on events.
...-Gixer
As do CNN MSNBC and every other news outlet.
Each put their own spin on a story but I havent seen one including any of the 3 that were any less accurate then any other.
Only the spin is different.
Take a measuring cup and fill it exactly half way.
One side will report it as being half empty, another will report it as being half full.
Both reports exactly accurate. The only difference is in the way they report it.
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So, Gixer; at what age did yer mom stop dropping you on your head?
... just curious.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
As do CNN MSNBC and every other news outlet.
Each put their own spin on a story but I havent seen one including any of the 3 that were any less accurate then any other.
Only the spin is different.
Take a measuring cup and fill it exactly half way.
One side will report it as being half empty, another will report it as being half full.
Both reports exactly accurate. The only difference is in the way they report it.
I understand but I still don't see how any of the FACTS in the article were Spun......How do you spin a direct quote?
Gen. Richard Myers (search), chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the Iraqi performance in the offensive would be an important indication of their readiness to take over security issues, a key part of the U.S. exit strategy from Iraq.
"Clearly what we want to have happen in Iraq is to have Iraqi security forces take charge of their own security. And every day, they're more and more able to do that," he said on "FOX News Sunday."
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I understand but I still don't see how any of the FACTS in the article were Spun......How do you spin a direct quote?
I wasnt responding to the article in question but rather to what I had quoted about fox "having their own way of reporting events"
It was more of a general statement then addressing a specific issue.
I watch all of em and I dont see Fox reporting and I mean the actual news reporting and not one of the shows like Hannity and Colms (dumb and dumber) or OReily as being any more or less accurate then any of the others
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(http://www.bfmcnatl.com/TommyFranks.jpg)
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^^ lol!
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Big laughs from both Hangtime, and Pei.
Gawd this board is hillarious at times.
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Originally posted by Slash27
What "way" is that?
Well you know they tend to lead off with Michael jackson, The runaway bride, some missing white kid, a car chase, then 1 minute on Iraq, then onto some other pointless crap that they say America is watching.
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On another matter I am sure that somehow this will be bad in the long run somehow someway. lol
Iraq's freshly minted legislators pounded out their first agreement on the 15 basic articles to guide their new constitution - including democracy, federalism, separation of powers and making Islam the state religion.
Now thats how you make a state sponsored religion. lmao
Ohhh Zarqawi please tell me you and Osama are having a git together in Iran.
Britain's The Sunday Times reported that al-Zarqawi left the country after being wounded in a missile attack and was thought to be in Iran. The paper said it obtained the information from an unidentified senior insurgent commander with close contacts to al-Zarqawi's al-Qaida in Iraq group. Iran denied al-Zarqawi was there
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Originally posted by Swoop
popcorn - check
deckchair - check
plenty to smoke - check.
ok, carry on.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
;)
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well... the Abrams method is what we are doing in Iraq. When Abrams left over 90% of the South was completely under the control of South Vietnamese forces and police militias.. there had been no rocket attacks of any significance for years... no offensive by the North had been able to take place for two years. Even John Vann said that the war was won. The policy of holding onto territory with U.S. supplied southern troops and milita was working perfectly.
The protests and peace talks didn't lose the war by bringing home the troops. The U.S. troops were allready pulling out in a planned manner and the south was taking up the load in an admirable way defeating the north in every engagement.
The protesters and peace talks cut the FUNDING for the south... and still... the huge advantage we had won kept the north from mounting any kind of major attack until 1975. The war was lost after we pulled out and it was lost by congress and the diplomats at the paris "peace" talks. At one point the south was down to one bullet per man per day and equiment readiness of about 10%
Now... the strategy that won the vietnam war is sound... hold ground and instal indiginous forces (who can recognize the bad guy and deal with him effectively) the indiginous know what needs to be done and don't really care about the press.
The war can be lost in the same way vietnam was if people like gixer get their way tho just as easily. We can abandon them like gixer seems to want and allow the gains to evaporate as lack of financial support kills the indiginous effort..
In which case... gixer can do the same thing as the protesters in 72 did and claim a moral victory while the country reverts.
We have allready won the war in Iraq. We need to support the indiginous people while we make an orderly withdrawl... and not until they can handle the forces from outside massed against them...
we can repeat history or make it. I feel that we are on the cusp of another vietnam but with happier results. New leadership can allways throw it away tho and repeat history.
lazs
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Gixer,
In EVERY ground engagement of any size, the US kicked the crap outta the NVA.
Unfortunately for the US, the clips of body bags arriving home on the evening news and the US media helped to trigger a series of events that restricted the US's overall prosecution of the war.
Sadly most folks know very little about the war, outside of a few blurbs in history books. I suggest you might read "We were Soldiers Once... and Young" by Lt. Gen. Harold G. Moore (ret.) and Joseph L. Galloway (ISBN 0-345-47581-X) especially the travails that the 2nd Battalion 7th Cavalry had to endure during their "Walk in the Sun" to LZ Albany. A common misconception, or myth if you will, is the influence that the media had on the conduct of the war on the American populace as a whole. The overriding failure was in the will of the Johnson administration to conduct the war as a "Police action", failure to call up the reserves, federalize the National Guard, or allow "Hot Pursuit" of enemy units across the borders of Cambodia or Laos. Lam Son 719 also points out the failure of the RSVN forces to defeat the NVA in a conventional type engagement after the "Vietnamization" as advocated by Gen. Abrams. Yes the U.S. could have won the war if it were conducted as a war, not as a series of increasing applications of military power designed to bring the DRVN around to the idea that "Unification" would be too high a cost politically and economically to bear. The Johnson administration was scared to death of the PRC becoming involved by widening the war into Cambodia and Laos, hence the piss poor micro-management of the war by Johnson and Mcnamarra's "Whiz Kids".
To all the vets that served there I offer you my heartfelt gratitude for your service and your sacrifice. Hopefully the politico's will pause and reflect on the conduct of the war by the Johnson and succeeding administrations prior to comitting U.S. military forces to any future conflict (one can always hope).