Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on May 29, 2005, 08:46:38 PM
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Or will the "Non" vote be allowed to stand and so begin the downfall of the EU?
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.. do we care?
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I do, I'm from europe originally and do take some intserst in the political goins on back there.
What do the other people from europe think? What does this mean to the eu?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Or will the "Non" vote be allowed to stand and so begin the downfall of the EU?
It won't be the downfall of the EU, but it may well be the downfall of the new EU constitution.
Here's the BBC's analysis of what the French No vote means:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4552937.stm
and some more
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4581861.stm
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Here is my take on it,
Most of the European governments have not given the people the choice on whether or not to do anything concerning the EU the ones that are giving the people the choice are finding out the the people do not want it....(most of all for the wrong reasons)
if I look at the Netherlands it looks like the (European Constitution) will fail here also, when people are asked why the will vote against it, most are saying things like,
look what happened with the Euro (In Holland a lot of prices doubled over night) and now the government comes back and said "ya" we overrated the Euro conversion rate by about 15-20 %) or because of all the social cuts etc.... which in most cases have nothing to do with the EU.
However the Major reason here most are against it is because in Holland we are paying 3-10 times the amount per person that the rest of the EU countries.
We vote on 1 June and it looks like it will fail here also 70% Against 30 % for as of yesterday
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Not quite sure why all the fuss. The proposed constitution was not a make-or-break issue, despite what the pro and anti camps claimed.
Life will go on, and at worst, there will need to be a rethink on the future shape and workings of the EU bureaucracy. No big deal.
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the euro barbarians are about due to start another world war I would think.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the euro barbarians are about due to start another world war I would think.
lazs
LOL
Karaya
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So what this means is that the French PEOPLE refused to ratify the surrender the French Goverment wanted to pass?????
Seriously I always thought the EU had some serious ramifications for a nations soveriegnty. It almost looks like the making of a new nation encompassing all the older nations based on a copy of the United States.
What will this mean for the state of the EU. Is it a valid "state" or does it have no real basis for existance without a constitution? Secondly what authority does the EU have to enforce it's directives / guidelines?
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Seems to me it can't work unless they give up sovernty(spelling) for a federal system...too much pride and ancient bad blood for that.
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MSNBC.com is reporting that Chirac himself may resign. I don't get these politics...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8022003/
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Seems to me it can't work unless they give up sovernty(spelling) for a federal system...too much pride and ancient bad blood for that.
You suppose the NON is related to the question asked but it's not completly the case, most of the NON-voter didn't have read the text.
Seriously when the communist and the fascist are the same bed nothing good can come from.
PS I've no answer to your question GRUN.
I don't know nor can predict what will happen next.
Except perhaps the politician will understand this as kick in the butt.
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I thought I read somewhere that even though the French people voted against, the French gov't (Ministers) can vote themself and overturn. Is this true?
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The governement can't but the parlement can as it's the citizen representation*
* sarcam intended :)
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got it - thank you.
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Originally posted by lazs2
the euro barbarians are about due to start another world war I would think.
lazs
They should certainly behave a bit more civilized, like the USA. There should be a law......hmmmm.:confused:
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Originally posted by straffo
The governement can't but the parlement can as it's the citizen representation*
* sarcam intended :)
yes but in france would the parlement go against the public reforendum?
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Traditionnally no,but there is no rule to prevent this.
It would be very bad taste IMO./
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Originally posted by straffo
Traditionnally no,but there is no rule to prevent this.
It would be very bad taste IMO./
I assume they would also face re-election problems (they are elected officials no?)
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Exact in theory but as my compatriot didn't really voted against EU but more against our current governement I'm not sure it's impossible plus as said de Gaulle in the past : "les français sont des veaux"
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Articles mention that the no vote was motivated by great fear and uncertaintty about the EU and France's economic & employment future. I found this surpising.
I say that because lately I have noticed lots of boasting from Europe about America's impending economic doom and lots of pride in the euro and the EU economy - so in light of the news above was this usa bashing just a distraction to soothe our euro posters latent domestic fears?
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Originally posted by Maverick
It almost looks like the making of a new nation encompassing all the older nations based on a copy of the United States.
I'm not sure how the formation of a nation from a number of colonies all founded with the same language, culture and history can be seen as a model for the formation of a nation from a number of nation states with completely different langauges, cultures and histories.
For those Europeans who want a single European state (misguided though they are at this point in history IMHO) one of the main points is to form a state that is completely different from the USA and will act as a counter to US influence (political, economic and cultural). If you think they want to be another USA then you are seriously mistaken.
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I had assumed the whole point of the EU was to mass all them lil bitty countries together (under Chirac's leadership, I presumed) to create a counter to the US--only problem is many of those countries have frightful economies (judging by inflation, unemployment rate, GNP, etc), because they have socialist leanings--and multiplying, say, Germany's economy by 10....they would STILL suck
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Hey pei, go take a chill pill, it was an analogy.:rolleyes:
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somewhere in Iraq a good buddy of Chirac waits......
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Originally posted by Pei
I'm not sure how the formation of a nation from a number of colonies all founded with the same language, culture and history can be seen as a model for the formation of a nation from a number of nation states with completely different langauges, cultures and histories.
For those Europeans who want a single European state (misguided though they are at this point in history IMHO) one of the main points is to form a state that is completely different from the USA and will act as a counter to US influence (political, economic and cultural). If you think they want to be another USA then you are seriously mistaken.
Well lets see...if they made a single "nation" out of europe..hmmm...One UNITED nation of member STATES...under a common government but still individually sovereign...sounds familiar..but can't quite put my finger on where I've heard this one before.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Well lets see...if they made a single "nation" out of europe..hmmm...One UNITED nation of member STATES...under a common government but still individually sovereign...sounds familiar..but can't quite put my finger on where I've heard this one before.
Formation of the English state from the various Anglo-Saxon princedoms?
Formation of Germany form various independent states?
Likewise Italy, Russia in the 10th century etc......
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will act as a counter to US influence
so they are forming this EU to oppose us? Not to better their own lives?
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I get the sense it could be interpeted two ways..
1. an economic consortium designed to compete on a closer to 'level' playing field with the US Dollar (kinda goofy considering the international flavor of american corporations)
2. A military/political/economic foil for the US to fill the power gap left by the collapse of the Soviet Union. I suspect the french see themselves as the politicaly dominant european force with the the Germans as the dominant economic/military arm of the union.
I don't see much of a positive nature in a Unified European Nation/State WRT America, albiet an economic union or a political one. Seems to be bad news, short term or long for us.
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<--- wondering if the EU will invade France.
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<--------- hoping the EU invades france
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Holy crap! The neu Europa wont be stopped!
Next thing you know the USA will have to liberate France once again.. :)
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Ca ne me fait toujours pas rire.
Et de plus , le comique de répétition est une technique humoristique éculé.