Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on May 30, 2005, 08:25:02 AM
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Think about it.
Objective discussion and reply requested.
India? (caste system)
Japan (cultural ideology)
Northern Ireland (weird, but it popped up on the search)
England (ditto)
USA (minefield)
France (see above)
Israel
Arabic Nations
any I missed?
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I think this'll fly bout like a lead balloon....
IN
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yah me too, upon reflection. But the balloon is up....
subject came up at a club dinner last night... topic seemed to wander from racisim to nationalism.. and which was the greater evil. was thought provoking. everybody left with all their appendages.
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sometimes the word nationalism is just putting a less ugly mask on the word racism.
nationalism that fears racial mixing is simply following normal KKK teachings. Same for feeling that only people of that nations race can understand the nation.
for instance... Japan is racist not nationalist.
lazs
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From my experience, I'd say Japan. People in arabic countries are extremely friendly to foreigners, and I can't imagine why England and Ireland are on the list...
Daniel
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You missed Africa on that list.
Robin Williams: "Yaching is difficult in Chicago...they tend to shoot at you from the south shore"
Peter O'Toole: "Ahh yes...you have a very steady sort of violence in America. Here in the tropics it is a life of sun duldrum and boredom punctuated by the occasional blood bath...I do believe we are expecting one at any moment."
Bartender: "There there...stop all this talk about a revolution."
Peter O'Toole: "Well it happened in Kenya didn't it? They dragged those fat bergers off in the middle of night, forced them to drink blood from a severed sheep's noodle and hacked them to death with machetes".
Robin Williams: "I knew a guy who stiffed a loan shark once. A couple of these guys (pulls his nose to one side) came over, cut off his arm, beat him to death with the arm then put it in a blender and made a dip out of it and served it at his sister's wedding. His sister liked it so much she asked for the recipe"
Twiggy: "My, you two are a charming bunch."
Peter O'Toole: "My dear, unlike you I have not been moving from discoteque to discoteque with my prettythang hanging out of a French-cut bathing suit"
Twiggy: "Well, you're missing all the fun.
Peter O'Toole: "Mmmm....I suspect you're right."
From Club Paradise
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IN!
Egypt held the Hebrews in slavery for 4,000 years (perty sure race could have been one factor)
Karaya
PS - Everyone knows "all Honkies are racists".
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I lived 6 years in Japan... and saw far more racism in Yurop than I ever saw there, especialy northern Yurop.
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The most racist culture in the world is???
Teh Intardnet BBS culture !
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I'd say Skuzzy will find this thread to be INflamatory
:p
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I'd go with Chicago...
then again... are you racist if you hate everyone else equally?
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Originally posted by Curval
Robin Williams: "I knew a guy who stiffed a loan shark once. A couple of these guys (pulls his nose to one side) came over, cut off his arm, beat him to death with the arm then put it in a blender and made a dip out of it and served it at his sister's wedding. His sister liked it so much she asked for the recipe"
Wow Curval, thank you very very much. I knew that quote, it was imprinted in my head, but I couldn't remember for the life of me where it came from.
-Sik
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The African American community is about the most racist I have met. Ironic for a culture that screams "racism" at every corner, but that is the way I see it.
dago
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Oh its a trick question. They are all equally racist.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Wow Curval, thank you very very much. I knew that quote, it was imprinted in my head, but I couldn't remember for the life of me where it came from.
-Sik
;)
O'Toole had some real classics in that movie, although that particular one was Williams.
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nobody seems to want to have a civilized discussion on the topic.
Why is everyone in America so afraid of offending?
Democracy means everyone can state their opinions without any fear of retribution.
On the subject of racism, you will probably find it in every country in Europe where there's a lot of new immigrants from poorer countries.
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Originally posted by spitfiremkv
On the subject of racism, you will probably find it in every country in Europe where there's a lot of new immigrants from poorer countries.
As opposed to every state in the USA where there are a lot new immigrants from poorer countries?
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the US of A was created by immigrants from poor countries, not just by Brits.
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Asians are incredibly biased against "darker" skin. But it is hard to call it racism, more of a aesthetic preference.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Re: The most racist culture in the world is???
To answer this objectively.... to really get to the bottom of this pressing question, we're gonna need some way of measuring it. Some parameters or something.
Otherwise, it's a he said, she said.
That is not to say that I dismiss the importance of the question. Au Contraire! I think it's highly beneficial for us to come to some agreement on this. For if we fail to, it would be at our own peril.
So I propose that we develop a fail-safe way of quantifying and then comparing the relative racist attributes of the various cultures. Through this, we would know, without a shadow of a doubt, exactly which culture was the most racist. And by virtue of our newly gained and impenetrable insight, know what needs to be done.
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Originally posted by spitfiremkv
the US of A was created by immigrants from poor countries, not just by Brits.
Not really. Mostly created by Brits. (New Jersey, New Hampshire, New York, Jamestown, Portsmouth etc.)
It grew and prospered with the work and efforts of immigrants from all lands but really I think most of the creators were Brits.
dago
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As Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe were born in Virginia, and Hancock and Adams were from Quincy Mass, and Franklin was from Philadelphia Penn, I would argue that the USA was founded by Americans.
Ghandi was born in a British Colony as well but I would call him Indian.
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Kill the Intolerant!!!
kbman
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France
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Dago, I realize that you're trying to answer spitfiremkv honestly, but his remark deserves no reply. He is saying: "On the subject of racism, you will probably find it in every country in Europe where there's a lot of new immigrants from poorer countries." He is actually saying three things:
1) That the root of racism is found where poor immigrants come face to face with afluent citizens.
2) That this confrontation is best exemplified by Europe.
3) That therefore, Europe is the most racist.
When you break his words down into tiny bite-sized pieces, they slide off the fork like over-cooked pork. When broken down as such, not one of these assertions weathers a reasonable examination.
Taken as a whole? It looks like something, but you end up choking on it.
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1960's:
Civil Rights Activist: Mr. J. William Fulbright, I believe you are a racist!
J. William Fulbright: Perhaps so, but you must understand one thing.
Civil Rights Activist: And what would that be!?
J. William Fulbright: I don't like white people either.
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Originally posted by Dago
Not really. Mostly created by Brits. (New Jersey, New Hampshire, New York, Jamestown, Portsmouth etc.)
It grew and prospered with the work and efforts of immigrants from all lands but really I think most of the creators were Brits.
dago
Actually most of the immigration seems to stem from military practices of Spain,France and England. They tried to bring in lots of people to immigrate in order to control vaster territories of land. All three contributed lots of people and in the End Great Britian won out because they had over population and dwindling resources. Hence people wanted to leave. France and Spain had problems trying to get people to "want" to immigrate and thus lost control of their territories to the British. And lets not forget the slave trade.
Interesting side note that I am not sure most people are aware of is that Indians (Native Americans) owned slaves. Though they treated them better than whites they still had posession of them as property.
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Funked, can you develop that, if you're serious?
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In the interests of controversy how about Israel?
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Hangtime mentioned Israel.
I couldn't disagree more.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
In the interests of controversy how about Israel?
how typically euro of you!!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
In the interests of controversy how about Israel?
how about no :D
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cuba.
definately.
;)
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oh. and any country who seeks to drive its occupants from its land or impose a state religion or build tall fences to segregate.
:cool:
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Originally posted by JB88
oh. and any country who seeks to drive its occupants from its land or impose a state religion or build tall fences to segregate.
:cool:
America? (ala the Native Indians)
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you guys ever read anything on the indian wars?
lazs
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Why..did Lott write a book on them too?
:rofl
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I think Hangtime is just tryIN to stir up somthing with this thread.
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Canada and America are the least racists countrys I've ever been. Probably because they are the least ethnically homogenous countries in the world.
However America is the most nationalistic country I've ever been in. But I haven't been to europe or asia yet.
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The Nips.
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Most former Eastern Bloc countries seem to have a real problem with gypsies! They are not exactly fair handed when treating that particular minority.
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Originally posted by Suave
Canada and America are the least racists countrys I've ever been. Probably because they are the least ethnically homogenous countries in the world.
However America is the most nationalistic country I've ever been in. But I haven't been to europe or asia yet.
what is wrong with being nationalistic? especially considering that this great people has historically lent a helping hand to anyone and routinely even feeds it's enemies. this is the only consistently giving people in the history of mankind. we have a lot of which we can be proud and the rest of the world has much to emulate. we are easily the most compassionate and servile people on earth.
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Not that the edification value of this thread is very high, but some of the most intolerant cultures on the globe are actually in Africa.
The sheer mind-boggling scale of the bloodshed caused by tribalism and ethnic hatred in sub-Saharan Africa makes the "soft racism" of most of the first world pale by comparison. A good example being the slaughter of almost a million Rwandan Tutsis at the hands of their fellow Rwandan Hutus (and then the subsequent RPF reprisals that killed about 60,000 Tutsi) in the 90s. Then you have the ongoing genocide waged by Arab Northern Sudan against the Black Western and Southern Sudanese and so on. Almost every civil war, rebellion, revolution, and general free-for-all slaughter in that continent since the end of colonialism has been in some way motivated by tribal hatred. So if you want my vote for most racist, it would be most of the African Nations south of Egypt.
- SEAGOON
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I'd say, given the oportunity and a reason (I'll go with religion first, color of skin second) we are all racists. Some more some less, some wont admit to it. Hate is what got as here and what will take us in the future, whatever it may be.
You don't agree? Look at history. The greatest achievements of humans where from war and slavory.
More evidence, this thread.
:p
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You asked which culture but then you mentioned nations.
Usally there are several different cultures in any given nation. Some moreso then others .
The USA for example is a nation of a great many cultures as well as races.
So which is it you ask?
Which culture is the most racist? or Which nation?
I will respectfully refrain from answering on both counts as any responce or opinion even if objectively and honestly given would only raise the ire of somebody.
I am however
IN
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
France
Their not racist.Just amazingly obnoxious and rude.
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i only recently met one of those french people. his name is juneau and he is definately a jack ***.
alteratively, i have a good friend who resides in normandy. great guy. smarter than hell.
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Originally posted by JB88
cuba.
definately.
;)
huh....:confused:
Communism really took care of the race issue in Cuba. To them, it doesnt matter wheter you're "meztiso", black, or indigenous... "tu eres Cubano!"
:)
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Originally posted by Nash
When you break his words down into tiny bite-sized pieces, they slide off the fork like over-cooked pork. When broken down as such, not one of these assertions weathers a reasonable examination.
Taken as a whole? It looks like something, but you end up choking on it.
sorry for having an opinion and posting it here. did you wake up with a dripping bootyhole again?
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Can't believe nobody took Saurdaukar's bait.
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Originally posted by spitfiremkv
sorry for having an opinion and posting it here.
Nothing really wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with people telling you that your opinion is ill thought out. Oh what a wonderful world it would be if everyone did their own heavy lifting by thinking things through before just spewing it out here. Though I suppose it's actually part of what makes the ubb entertaining.
But if an opinion is to be worth anything, it is because of the sense that the opinion reached was the result of the careful consideration of things. Either evidenced in the post itself, or demonstrated by one's posting history. Neither of which were present in your post.
So it is just more "blaaarhhhgh". And there are people out there right now making a hell of a good living off of doing just that. There's no sense in just giving it away for free here. As far as this board is concerned, I'd say the market is already cornered.
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some good stuff upthread.. and thanks fer tryin to keep it civil folks!!
Somebody pointed out nationalism... it's slippery texture often leads one to believe it's a very close cousin to racisim.
Are they?
My grandpa.. a wise old bastard who was a patriot to the very core of his being; once remarked to me that Nationalism is only a fart away from being the sheitte we call Racisim.
I think I disagree.. I can discerne a diffrence between the way I feel about my country vs how I feel about any racial group.. in this Nation, there are virtually ALL racial groups present; most members of which seem to be proud of their American Nation AND their racial heritage.
However, (and I suspect that this is what Gramps was refering to) there are Nations out there that seem to insist that their National Heritage is tied to a specific and defineable Race or Religion. They hold the purity and sanctity of their religion and race to be paramount, Nationality to them means not a country, but instead something darker.. more dangerous. Racial Purity, or Religious Zeal.
With that as a yardstick, what National entities are racist? Somebody leveled a finger at some Sub-Saharan African Nations as being 'Racist' (in this case 'tribal') by that yardstick.. looks like I'd have to agree. Another indicated that Japan has Racist leanings, I'd have to agree there too (how they ostracize non-racially pure citizens would be a crime in our country).
Then there's 'religious' bias.. some nations seem to treat 'non-believers' as second class citizens. Israel, India, Arab Nations come to mind...
But which nation would you think represents the biggest, most offensive (by american standards) culture of 'hate'.. be it religious, racial or tribal?
..and again, thanks for the reasoned non inflamatory replies..
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Of the signifigant nations in the world
I think it has to go to Japan and India.
The japanese are just racist period and wouldnt understand any point of view that presented it as a bad thing.
The indians not so much racist as culturaly stuck in the middle ages as regards woman and the whold caste thing.
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Hangtime,
Actually historically the great divider has always been the same from Babel onwards - language. While we may also be able to divide along lines of color or other characteristics, the most profound separator of people has always been language or dialect. That is one of the reasons why in forming a common nation you need to have a common language. In fact this was recognized from the very beginning by Empire builders such as Alexander who insisted that all the inhabitants of his domains speak a common Greek language (a simplified version of Attic Greek called "Koine" - this in turn became the lingua franca of the Ancient Med. and consequently the language of the New Testament).
Balkanization, or the dividing of peoples from one another even though they live in common geographic areas often proceeds via a refusal to adopt the common language, or an effort to stamp it out in their locale. You can see this in the radical division of Quebec from the rest of Canada. The foriegn language is inextricably associated with the old or alien culture.
This is one of the many reasons why people groups will never be assimilated into multi-ethnic first world nations such as the United States or Australia without also adopting the common language of that nation. Programs that allow them to function in the society using the language of the "old country" foster balkanization and further divide the people groups within that nation - which in turn fosters suspicion and racism on both sides of the line.
- SEAGOON
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Amazing this thread isn't closed yet. I guess it's because no one has really said anything anti American. Which is interesting considering the US's track record on the subject.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Hangtime,
Actually historically the great divider has always been the same from Babel onwards - language. While we may also be able to divide along lines of color or other characteristics, the most profound separator of people has always been language or dialect. That is one of the reasons why in forming a common nation you need to have a common language. In fact this was recognized from the very beginning by Empire builders such as Alexander who insisted that all the inhabitants of his domains speak a common Greek language (a simplified version of Attic Greek called "Koine" - this in turn became the lingua franca of the Ancient Med. and consequently the language of the New Testament).
Balkanization, or the dividing of peoples from one another even though they live in common geographic areas often proceeds via a refusal to adopt the common language, or an effort to stamp it out in their locale. You can see this in the radical division of Quebec from the rest of Canada. The foriegn language is inextricably associated with the old or alien culture.
This is one of the many reasons why people groups will never be assimilated into multi-ethnic first world nations such as the United States or Australia without also adopting the common language of that nation. Programs that allow them to function in the society using the language of the "old country" foster balkanization and further divide the people groups within that nation - which in turn fosters suspicion and racism on both sides of the line.
- SEAGOON
Hunh. Never considered it from the aspect of language.. I have a very good frind who's latvian by heritage, but born and raised here. When he's with his parents he speaks latvian, when he's around us, it's english.
One afternoon he dropped by with the family in tow for a block-party BBQ. They stayed together, speaking latvian amongst themselves. It was like there was a little 'fence' around them.. finally I asked his father 'you speak english?' He said, 'yes, of course.' My response was.. 'so speak it here'. From that day to this I was never sure WHY I was annoyed at them.. now I know. Yer right! It fosters mistrust, widens the 'gulf' between the cultures.
Excellent points!
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Originally posted by Gixer
Amazing this thread isn't closed yet. I guess it's because no one has really said anything anti American. Which is interesting considering the US's track record on the subject.
...-Gixer
Yah gixer, it's a discourse that runs close to the line.. an exchange of observations and ideas for the most part without venom.
hopefully, nobody will take yer bait.
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It's not bait, it's only cecause it's a discussion about other countries and racisim that it's still going otherwise it would of been shut by the 3rd post.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
Amazing this thread isn't closed yet. I guess it's because no one has really said anything anti American. Which is interesting considering the US's track record on the subject.
...-Gixer
US isnt alone with our track record. We're just one of the more recent
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Question for Gixer:
The New Zealand wars, where in the mid 1800's the British Empire fought the Maori people... was that racist?
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Does religisism count?
If so, Utah is the most unabashed descriminator of the bunch.
LDS or go AWAY.
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holy crap.. I'd forgotten about the Mormon Church. Good point!
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Originally posted by slimm50
I think this'll fly bout like a lead balloon....
IN
I think Keith Moon said that after listening to Jimi Page's then unnamed new band.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
I think Keith Moon said that after listening to Jimi Page's then unnamed new band.
yup only I think he said lead zepellin, they were the opening act for the who.
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Damned if I would wanna follow Jimmy Page.
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What I don’t understand is, how can other cultures be racist if they are obviously so inferior to ours?
eskimo
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ahhh, yah see; that's the quandy. What makes you think these other cultures ARE inferior to ours?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
ahhh, yah see; that's the quandy. What makes you think these other cultures ARE inferior to ours?
The key word is “obvious”. It’s not something that needs to be explained, its just something that you know, deep inside.
eskimo
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(You know that I’m being sarcastic, right?)
eskimo
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(yah. had to step onnit tho before somebody like Gixer grabbed it and started a flame war. ;))
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Originally posted by Saintaw
I lived 6 years in Japan... and saw far more racism in Yurop than I ever saw there, especialy northern Yurop.
That my friend is because Japan has few foreigners and refugees and illegal aliens. I think they proved the racism in previous times.
There is racism in Japan like everywhere. I read about an American who knew Japanese. He was sitting on a plane when the hostess came up and said to the Japanese man beside him. 'I hope you don't mind sitting beside the Gajin . We can move you if you like?'
Racism is everywhere.
Hangtime your Granpa was right, nationalism is one step away from racism. I believe what you are thinking of is patriotism. The word Nazi is derived from the word nationalism. I think a patriot would die for his country, nationalist make other people die for their country.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
That my friend is because Japan has few foreigners and refugees and illegal aliens. I think they proved the racism in previous times.
There is racism in Japan like everywhere. I read about an American who knew Japanese. He was sitting on a plane when the hostess came up and said to the Japanese man beside him. 'I hope you don't mind sitting beside the Gajin . We can move you if you like?'
Racism is everywhere.
Hangtime your Granpa was right, nationalism is one step away from racism. I believe what you are thinking of is patriotism. The word Nazi is derived from the word nationalism. I think a patriot would die for his country, nationalist make other people die for their country.
i think that some japanese take issue with our body odors. apparently the high meat content in our diet gives off an odor they find unpleasent. i object to the way the japanese smell to me at times, it reminds me of going into a bait shop. i also dislike the way people from india smell, the high curry content in their diet makes me nauseous. that makes me a racist?
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Originally posted by GScholz3
Lol Storch, you'll LOVE Italy! :D
now that's racist! (i'm part italian) italy has the best smelling women on earth yaknow :D nothing wrong with the smell of garlic, basil and oregano.
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Originally posted by storch
now that's racist! (i'm part italian) italy has the best smelling women on earth yaknow :D nothing wrong with the smell of garlic, basil and oregano.
But the broccoli farts are nothing to write home about.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
But the broccoli farts are nothing to write home about.
''I'd inhale deeply as they were emitted
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Originally posted by storch
now that's racist! (i'm part italian) italy has the best smelling women on earth yaknow :D nothing wrong with the smell of garlic, basil and oregano.
Remember me to wear a kevlar pants if we ever have to meet.
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I'm a Krout- Mic- Limy- squanto- Frog, but for some reason...I feel fine.
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I'm British so I already own two pairs of Kevlar reinforced trousers. :lol
( pants I wear underneath my trousers! )
I bought em from here!
http://www.dragginjeans.com.au/
They Protect me very well and others too ;) :lol :lol
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Originally posted by GScholz3
You're part British as well? :lol
I said I'd whiff not that I would eat anything. :D
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To really understand the question you must really understand 2 things and that is the difference between racism and biggotry.
Bgigotry is when a person has a distain, hatred, contempt or steriotypical attitude toward people of another race.
Biggotry is personal.
Racism is the use of the power of the state to opress people of a certain race.
Racism is Political/Governmental
We see biggotry all over the globe in every walk of live. It is difficult to stop and very hard to remove from a culture because it is taught from parent to child.
In what countries of the world is actual political racism practiced?
Depends on how you look at it. One could say that racial preference laws in may western countries are indeed racist by the strict definition.
Indeed, it is my opinion that many western liberal are quite racist as thier practices tend to lock racial minorities in a form of economic bondage making them politically beholden to them. This is the new covert racism of our time.
It clouds the issue when you call a biggot a racist. He is not, he is mearly a fool unable to escape his flawed upbringing.
By these definitions, what are the most racist countries? I really do not know. Unless a country is putting these practices into the "Law of the Land" then it really cannot be called racist.
Individual behaviour is biggoted, only governments and those who advocate the use of governments against a particular race can be racist.
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well cliff it may not be bigotry on the part of an individual it could be xenophobia. racist policies can be implemented by anyone not just governments. I bring to your attention the policy of not hiring or associating with (enter your favorite race here) simply because you dislike them as in I won't hire to tend my yard because they are all thieves. or i used to attend that church until it started getting full of . it happens all the time.
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Originally posted by storch
well cliff it may not be bigotry on the part of an individual it could be xenophobia. racist policies can be implemented by anyone not just governments. I bring to your attention the policy of not hiring or associating with (enter your favorite race here) simply because you dislike them as in I won't hire to tend my yard because they are all thieves. or i used to attend that church until it started getting full of . it happens all the time.
When it is perpetrated BY the individual, it is biggotry. Never said biggotry isn't bad it's just a matter of definition.
Unfortunately you cannot fix something unless you understand it. The person in your example is a biggot not a racist. If he makes it corporate policy then yes, he's a racist.
Yes it does happen all the time but it does not change the meaning of the words. Racism is when biggotry is made the policy of the state, corporation of as in your example the church.
BUT! A church, being a private institution is perfectly within its constatutional rights to implement such a policy. Just as the Boy Scouts are within their rights to deny membership to homosexuals.
Governments, corporations or anyone who offers employement does not have that right.
As I said, the biggot is a product of his environment. Racism is when the biggot attampts to use power, be it governmental or corporate to impose his biggotry.
xenophobia is nothing more than biggotry without the color factor. xenophobia is a factor of human tribalism. Something we still have a lot of I'm afraid.
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sometimes i'm a biggot and xenophobia, it just can't be helped these day.
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The worst place I or my family have visited has got to be various bits of the Islamosphere. INstitutionalised sexism and the racism is just so casual.
My father was in Saudi some years back as a consultant. They were driving past part of the site and he noticed what looked like a rubbish dump and suggested that it might be a good idea to clean it up. Cue much embarassment: that was where the Pakistani labourers lived.
I was in Brunei in 2003 and there were three classes of people: the Bruneians on top, then Western guest workers and the Chinese (who actually run the economy), and then the others - the menials, foreigners like Philipinos brought in to be housemaids and the like - who are definitely untermensch
Not a nice place.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Question for Gixer:
The New Zealand wars, where in the mid 1800's the British Empire fought the Maori people... was that racist?
That was colonialism...
...and the Maori's fought sufficiently well (their fortifications had trenches, killing points, and bomb shelters), the British to a point where it was far easier to negotiate than subjucate.
Tronsky
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I think to understand biggotry you either have had to have been a biggot at one time or been the object of biggotry.
I also thing that liberals force biggotry onto all of us.
lazs
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The understanding bit I agree with as for the Obsession with the word Liberal bit
Thats bizarre reasoning!
To be honest you sound pretty Liberal yourself as I understand the word to mean!
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I am using the word in the current political sense not in the hardcore defenition of the word. I may even be using it in the current AMERICAN political sense which is only fair considering that this is an American BB.
lazs
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Not the old This is an American BB so P*ss off foreigner" tosh I hope?
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nooo.... the old "this is an American BB so try to keep up" tosh.
(whatever tosh means).
lazs
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Lazs 2
Turing machine 0
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Originally posted by Curval
You missed Africa on that list.
Ummm...Africa's a continent...
UNlike that other country that was left off the list, South America?:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Ummm...Africa's a continent...
UNlike that other country that was left off the list, South America?:rolleyes:
you are absolutely right. It's appalling how the white citizens of South Africa are being treated by the black majority.
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blacks in africa discriminate against other blacks based on skin shade... the darker the skin the further down on the pecking order.
lazs
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I wonder if biggotry can be on a purely subconcious level.
Ethically, I beleive that it is wrong to judge by superficial traits, but about a year ago I hip tossed a man out into the street when he put his hand on my shoulder. I saw him coming, and felt apprehensive before he got to me (having been robbed at gunpoint a few times by people of the same ethnicity). I know that not everyone with those traits is going to attempt to rob me, yet I still get a bit nervous around them. When I am walking alone and happen to come close to a group of them, I start thinking at mach 10, trying to roll through every possible scenario to the end game. The funny thing is that I have friends of that race, yet I see them in a totally different light, and do not get nervous around them. I wonder if this is some form of biggotry, or some kind of mental illness?
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Originally posted by lazs2
blacks in africa discriminate against other blacks based on skin shade... the darker the skin the further down on the pecking order.
lazs
not only in S. Africa, it happens here as well mostly amongst the Haitians.
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Question for Gixer:
The New Zealand wars, where in the mid 1800's the British Empire fought the Maori people... was that racist?
Originally posted by -tronski-
That was colonialism...
...and the Maori's fought sufficiently well (their fortifications had trenches, killing points, and bomb shelters), the British to a point where it was far easier to negotiate than subjucate.
Tronsky
So are you saying colonialism wasn't racist?
Or are you saying that if the native people fight hard enough then it isn't racist?
Seems to me that the attitude of Europeans during the colonial age, (that they had a right to displace indiginous populations, to supplant their religious beliefs with Christianity, to change their culture to something resembling european due to the inherent superiority of the european ideal, and to attack and kill those who fought back) is the essence of racism.
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you can't have colonization without racism.
lazs
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It's a BS theory, why wonder when it doesn't behave like a rational theory?
That's why it's possible to make pretty movies about times long past in (e.g.) white empires, starring not-so-bad members of the "racist" social groups. They give candy to the poor little untermensch offspring, upping their karma because despite their active (or not) affiliation with said group, they are "good" and pretty for the movie.
It's a cliche, but one blurry enough to apply to many.
I hate your filthy guts, but once you give me your land, I'll make compassionate fashion trends in your image.
Like Frenchy said, when the brain stops, the insults start.
You could have colonization without racism, the same way you can impose martial law without diktat being your end rather than just your mean.
It's impossible to control someone without first putting him in the position of not being able to not depend on someone else.
grammar edit.
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Originally posted by lazs2
you can't have colonization without racism.
lazs
What if you colonize an island with no inhabitants?
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then you must be british
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Originally posted by moot
It's impossible to control someone without rendering him incapable from not depending on someone else beforehand.
I'm going to think about this statement for a while and try to figure out if what it says is what you think is is supposed to mean, but I think that what you left unsaid is not entirely unlike what you might have not meant but said anyway.
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No, he didn't. He said what you thought he said, but meant what you figuerd it might, but that COULD be something else entirely, which could mean he was being obtuse.
But yer right. We should think about it... there might be something there, just waiting..
watching..
planning..
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Stick to the subject... racism isn't inherent to coercion.
Concise but not precise statement, obtuse interpretation.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
IN!
Egypt held the Hebrews in slavery for 4,000 years (perty sure race could have been one factor)
Karaya
PS - Everyone knows "all Honkies are racists".
Where did you get that information from ?
Egypt ? Hebrews ? Slavery ? 4,000 years ???
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Originally posted by moot
Stick to the subject... racism isn't inherent to coercion.
Concise but not precise statement, obtuse interpretation.
okay.. but if the basis of racisim infers 'inferior/superior' races then either the 'superior' race attempts genocide or it goes for coercion.. via intimidation, subjuctation, slavery; etc.
yes? no?
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Yes. I wasn't going after the OP, that's just a long discussion and I'm too lazy for ten paragraphs.
I was commenting on the colonization tangent specificaly.
Then again, not entirely "yes". You could very well stay civil with a group despite considering it lesser, like is done with animals. That's splitting hairs, but that's what I meant with the movie example; it's not a meaningless nuance.
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Ok, I see what Lazs and maybe you, too, mean.
I don't believe in the higher/lesser scale premise. I don't believe in ethics as a sufficient reason to supplant one's purpose.
e.g. If your purpose was to take something "belonging" to someone else, considering whether they are lesser/higher is straying off your purpose, off-topic.
In a civil society, straying off the mutual consent to keep one's liberty from infringing on others' is risking to set off a m.a.d.-type chain reaction.
Purpose precedes ethics.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Seems to me that the attitude of Europeans during the colonial age, (that they had a right to displace indiginous populations, to supplant their religious beliefs with Christianity, to change their culture to something resembling european due to the inherent superiority of the european ideal, and to attack and kill those who fought back) is the essence of racism.
Colonization and re colonizing the colonized was not practiced solely by the Europeans and it's not a recent phenomenon.Without colonization man would probably still be huddled around a fire somewhere in Africa scatching his arse while thinking about how he's going to get his next meal with a pointy stick, and I don't just mean contemporary Africans who still live that way.
Using your logic the human race has been inherently racists from day one. But it depends on how you define racism. You only have to look in your own back yard as recently as the 1960s for an example of what I would consider to be the essence of racism, and all done without a colonizing Euro in sight.
Excel
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colonization is racism. If you feel that the people on the land have less use for it than you then you are a racist.
Curval may have hit the only example where that is not true... a tiny island that is not inhabited. That is like moving into a vacant apartment as oppossed to throwing the occupants out because... well... their wishes are inferior to yours.
The brits and spanish have particularly ugly reps.
The japs pretty much did the oppossite until modern times... same for china... they simply would not allow any intermingling because all other races and cultures were felt to be inferior. They no doubt still feel this way.
Every race and country on this earth is still very racist.
lazs
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Ummm...Africa's a continent...
UNlike that other country that was left off the list, South America?:rolleyes:
ummmmm....
The question was:
"The Most racist CULTURE in the world is???"...not country.
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The most racist culture on the planet without a doubt is mankind in general.:eek:
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Originally posted by Excel1
...Using your logic the human race has been inherently racists from day one. But it depends on how you define racism. You only have to look in your own back yard as recently as the 1960s for an example of what I would consider to be the essence of racism, and all done without a colonizing Euro in sight.
Excel
My statements of colonial era racism were in response to statements Gixer made which looked like a pot and kettle situation to me. NZ has its race history, and does not take away fromracism in US history. We should allow that all cultures have elements of racism.
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Gypsies.
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Discrimination based on Race, Religion or National Origion is clearly defined in the United States. Discrimination based on Race = Racism, Religion = Religionism, National Origion = Nationalism. They are not the same, and can overlap. All three are commonly used classifications of people, and in many ways, helpful for understanding a person's history, culture, values and traits. However, they are not a good basis for discrimination when considering items of public interest. I think when we talk about racism, in the narrowest terms, we are talking about discrimination based on race. Is this thread talking about general discrimination, or just race and racism?
Note: Language has commonly been a valid and proper way to discriminate because of the necessity to communicate in a normal social order. Some of the issues with Language have already been brought up. Without a common language, the normal social and cultural order breaks down, and leads to natural divisions. Canada and some Balken states have tried to overcome this natural barrier, but it has been a difficult obstacle to National order and unity. Racism is when a person is discriminated against even though they have learned and can speak/write another's language. Someone from Switzerland should pipe in on this issue.
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Japanese is the best-known as a racist culture, but, I bet you, there are other countries which correspond to this definition. I'm sure that some African nations can be seen as being racist.
The problem of human race is nowadays less actual than the problems created by the militant religious teachings mixed with nationalism.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Think about it.
Objective discussion and reply requested.
India? (caste system)
Japan (cultural ideology)
Northern Ireland (weird, but it popped up on the search)
England (ditto)
USA (minefield)
France (see above)
Israel
Arabic Nations
any I missed?
Well im not native speaker but i think that you dont know meaning of racism or you pick wrong term.
Racism = hostility based on race ... right ?
Now tell me what is racist about Indian casts ? .... Nothing, they arent racist, they are just kings of discrimination.
Arabs ? I dont think that they are racist at all. They are anti american (since american race formaly doesnt exist, they cant be racist)
French ? .. French are just a little bit drunk.... They still belive to be something special... ohh well.
So if we will not consider xenofobia, discrimination and stupidy as racism, i would say that biggest racist i ever saw are chinese.
But problem with chinese is, that they dont use honey even among themself
I also think that most of racism is in big cities, in most poor parts.