Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: IownU on May 31, 2005, 09:37:34 AM
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;)
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I'm sure you know why its implemented kilz, but for those who don't, its meant to encourage folks to switch sides to even out the teams. Now I don't agree with GVs being counted as part of this deal because there just aren't enough of them to limit. However, I don't have a problem with the fact a tiger couldn't be launched. You should still be able to take out panzers and t34s, but a tiger is a perk ride and I think the limiting of such powerful hardware is the whole idea of this venture.
I don't have any problem with the planes being limited either, but everyone should be able to take up an osti, m16, panzer, or m16. Otherwise, your defense against a gv attack is far limited.
I understand your frustration though.
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Originally posted by LTARkilz
last night the Knights could not up tigers ostis A20s very limited to what we could up so if we can not up ostis tigers panzers then how are we supposed to defend our bases against tigers and panzers i dont think its right
As one who was flying Bish last night, I imagine it had a bit to do with the better then 2 to 1 advantage in numbers over the Bish and almost 2 to 1 numbers advantage over the Rooks the Knights had.
It was getting downright silly watching the horde steamroll the place.
It's the main reason I tend to go to whatever country has the lowest numbers to fly. Don't need the ENY to nudge me. It just doesn't seem real fair to have the numbers be that off.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Come visit Rookland next time .. we'll show the scenery, our antic castles , and we'll even let ya visit the sheep pens ..(the stolen sheep pens ) that is.
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Seems to be working OK if they are getting ENY'ed.
If anything the current limits is the only problem.
I.e. on average it seems that one country needs around a 50 player advantage before it starts, but when it does start it hits more severely.
I preferred the older way where it started earlier but with a more gradual restriction.
Think part of the problem is that the ENY value of the aircraft/GVs has not been changed since the ENY restrictions (except the Me163?). Maybe this should have been looked at in conjunction with the restrictions.
Seems strange that after all this time there has been no tweaking of ENY limits or values since the only tweak shortly after it was introduced.
Still more than possible to defend a base from GV's if you don't have Panzers, try an IL2, Hurri 2D, or use eggs, all work just as effectively.
As a Bish we rarely get ENY'ed anyway, and on the very rare occassions we do, it doesn't affect what I fly.
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SIMPLE SOLUTION ,,STOP BEING A HOARDE MONGER,,,now heres a hankey,,,,get over it
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Seems to be working OK if they are getting ENY'ed.
If anything the current limits is the only problem.
I.e. on average it seems that one country needs around a 50 player advantage before it starts, but when it does start it hits more severely.
I preferred the older way where it started earlier but with a more gradual restriction.
Think part of the problem is that the ENY value of the aircraft/GVs has not been changed since the ENY restrictions (except the Me163?). Maybe this should have been looked at in conjunction with the restrictions.
Seems strange that after all this time there has been no tweaking of ENY limits or values since the only tweak shortly after it was introduced.
Still more than possible to defend a base from GV's if you don't have Panzers, try an IL2, Hurri 2D, or use eggs, all work just as effectively.
As a Bish we rarely get ENY'ed anyway, and on the very rare occassions we do, it doesn't affect what I fly.
I don't think it should affect the 163 as that plane can only be taken from one field so it is greatly limited anyway. I think it should be used sparingly with respect to GVs as it can take out a whole aspect of the game depending on what the limit is.
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Originally posted by Howitzer
I don't think it should affect the 163 as that plane can only be taken from one field so it is greatly limited anyway. I think it should be used sparingly with respect to GVs as it can take out a whole aspect of the game depending on what the limit is.
Thats why I said surprised that no ENY value adjustments have been done to aircraft or GVs (apart from the 163, or was it removed form them?) since the introduction of ENY limitations.
The idea is sound, I just think there's a little more could be done in respect to ENY values, and when and how the restrictions kick in.
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Originally posted by Howitzer
I'm sure you know why its implemented kilz, but for those who don't, its meant to encourage folks to switch sides to even out the teams.
While it rarely affects me, I haven't seen much evidence that it has this affect. Those who will switch country to fly for the lower number (i.e. underdog) will probably do so without the ENY pushing them. Prior to joining a squad I would do this quite often. Those loyal to their country will remain so and up some other ride.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
While it rarely affects me, I haven't seen much evidence that it has this affect. Those who will switch country to fly for the lower number (i.e. underdog) will probably do so without the ENY pushing them. Prior to joining a squad I would do this quite often. Those loyal to their country will remain so and up some other ride.
That's something I've never understood, going back to AW days. This notion of 'loyalty' to a country. That somehow the other guys in the other country are different, bad, whatever just seems silly to me.
The idea of evening the numbers and allowing for better fights seems like a much better thing to be loyal to. Good folks and bad folks in all the countries.
Dan/CorkyJr
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If you think back to when it was first introduced there were a lot of howls of protest.
So HT modified how it works, he made it kick in later, but the restriction curve was steeper.
Maybe somewhere in between would be a better balance, as I said I am surprised no further refinements have been done since that initial one way way back.
Yup the loyalty thing to a country has baffled me also. We have flown for all three depending on who was on average the underdog. Just happens to be that Bish are more than likely to be lowest numbers now, except on rare occassions.
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Sorry Kev, I misunderstood you.
Clifra... I agree with you totally, but I think what I said captured the intended spirit of it =)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
That's something I've never understood, going back to AW days. This notion of 'loyalty' to a country. That somehow the other guys in the other country are different, bad, whatever just seems silly to me.
The idea of evening the numbers and allowing for better fights seems like a much better thing to be loyal to. Good folks and bad folks in all the countries.
Dan/CorkyJr
Yeah, not a big deal for me either.
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Originally posted by Howitzer
Clifra... I agree with you totally, but I think what I said captured the intended spirit of it =)
Which brings up the question, "what's the point of having it, if it's not doing what it's intended to?"
Not that I really care if it's there or not.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Which brings up the question, "what's the point of having it, if it's not doing what it's intended to?"
Not that I really care if it's there or not.
Perhaps that it gives the overwhelmed country a fighting chance?
Remembering it's a game and the essence of good gameplay is balance, whether that be numbers, or giving the lowest numbers side an advantage of some kind.
Looking at last night, if Panzers were unavailable there must have been one big numbers imbalance.
If you can't defend a base from GV's, without having Panzers with that numbers advantage, there's something wrong. You still have M8's, IL2's, Hurri 2D's, 110's, eggs, rockets etc.
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Was it not the Knights and Bishops who wanted the Eny setting implemented? Bishops do tend to be outnumbered but the Knights on the other hand are far from being out numbered.
So why is it now a Knight is complaining about not being able to ride his/her ride? The 30+ advantage or more not enough for you guys?
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Well after saying we (Bish) are rarely ENY'ed.
Just maxxed out at ENY 36.8 LOLOLOL.
No complaints though.
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I give it a 3/10.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
Was it not the Knights and Bishops who wanted the Eny setting implemented? Bishops do tend to be outnumbered but the Knights on the other hand are far from being out numbered.
So why is it now a Knight is complaining about not being able to ride his/her ride? The 30+ advantage or more not enough for you guys?
Guess they didnt like the position of their "Win" button.
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LtarKilz, I'd like to know why you and your squad mates couldnt change to the side with the lowest numbers?
Seems to me the ENY is working fine... Its just that some players refuse to adjust to it.
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Quite frequently take fields using 110's to strafe the town down, so yup I can say you don't need bombers.
Preferable maybe, but theres more than one way, bombers aren't the only way.
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Earlier today when us (Bish) won reset:D :D Our ENY was almost 40. That easly eliminates 1/2-3/4 of the planes. Yet we were still able to push forward using the planes we could. I do have to agree though, that it is very frustrating not being able to defend against a gv attack.
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Knits ENY hit 39 tonight. Yaaaaay! I'm not sure how this affected the virtual war, but we had an excuse to fly high ENY planes. Numbers have been horrible lately, but there have still been a few good fights, even if we are 'stuck' with with the 30+ ENY planes. Good stuff.
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I saw the ENY hit 40 last night for Nits.
Switching countries to even out game play....you're telling me I
have to play your way, in order for me to play my game?:D
Seen too many "flames" in other threads when someone makes
a suggestion like that. I am surprized it never seems to happen
when ENY is brought up.
SCDR
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Originally posted by SCDR
I saw the ENY hit 40 last night for Nits.
Switching countries to even out game play....you're telling me I
have to play your way, in order for me to play my game?:D
Seen too many "flames" in other threads when someone makes
a suggestion like that. I am surprized it never seems to happen
when ENY is brought up.
SCDR
The flipside to this is, you are saying you want HTC to modify their game so you can play it your way :)
Dan/CorkyJr
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Originally posted by Guppy35
The flipside to this is, you are saying you want HTC to modify their game so you can play it your way :)
Dan/CorkyJr
:rofl Nope, I think it worked fine before ENY was started, but a few ppl with connections to HT "whined" about
the "horde", and because of that we have what we have today.
SCDR
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SCDR: You are completly incorect with your assesment.
It was not done do to any whines.
It was not pushed by anyone that has connections with HTC.
Inbalance had become a problem that had to be delt with.
It was discused for alternatives before being implemented.
It has worked to lower side imbalance issues.
It does not force you to play any certain way, it simply presents you with a choices.
HiTech
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Only problem is, I can just barely fly the what people call the "easy" or "dweeb" planes i.e...... the low eny newbie planes, So kick me in anything above those planes and I'm in deep chit! :eek: Not complaining but when the planes are at the 36 to 40 eny. I'm not really into playing, so I log. In that respect i quess it works one way or the other. but to have to log because of the limited plane selection <------------I dont like it working that way :(
People will say ,.. shut up fly a this or that, well thats fine IF I wanted to or could fly one of those "mossy f4 hur1 sbd or a thisandthat . And not just be a perk generator for the other country folk. Besides I dont want to be forced to do it , or forced to log. As it is now thats the choice after eny gets so high.
Would be nice to have something else or nothing, so those of us that might be subscribing to fly for fun, in something we Can fly, whether its a dweeb / geek/ newbie/ "No Skill" plane, should'nt matter. We should be able to make that our own " Unskilled" choice. Give me a la7 all day long and I could not hit/kill/down nothing . I cant fly the dang thing. barely can fly a spit or niki any of those. sigh......
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Actually you have 3 choices -
1) Take a different plane/gv.
2) Move countries. (can always go back after only 6 hours).
3) Logoff.
If your at an env of 30+ there is a huge imbalance so I dont see your problem.
Unless its - I want a vastly numerical advantage AND all the latest equipment.
Last night if you added the Rooks and Bish together you Knits STILL outnumbered BOTH of us combined.
Sorry but this whole premise of this thread seems like a selfish whine.
We are all here to have fun. Try being on the vastly outnumbered side on a regular basis, lot more fun for us now that you are limited to selection.
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Originally posted by hitech
SCDR: You are completly incorect with your assesment.
It was not done do to any whines.
It was not pushed by anyone that has connections with HTC.
Inbalance had become a problem that had to be delt with.
It was discused for alternatives before being implemented.
It has worked to lower side imbalance issues.
It does not force you to play any certain way, it simply presents you with a choices.
HiTech
Sorry sir.
OK, I made a bad assesment. Yet, that is the impression I have
gotten from reading ENY threads on this BBS. I am sure I am not
the only one to do so.
You are correct, I have to make a choice when ENY is "working",
as well as other people have to make a choice. 1) Keep playing
with what we have, 2) Switch countries, or 3) Log off.
Look HT ya got a most excellent game here, but does ENY really
work the way you wanted it to? Look at last night, Nits out
numbered BOTH Bish AND Rooks combined by about 2 to 1.
How many people switched from Nit to one of the other
countries? I think it was other way around, alot of people
switched to Nits, or logged off in frustration.
SCDR
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yup the "jumpers" cause some of it .... and the high numbers in one country today, are not the same tomorrow, It goes around to every country at some time. Rooks dont always have the huge numbers , neither do the bish or knits.
I'm not thinking this is so much a whine thread, more of a statement thread, that I, and looks like some others just dont like those three choices. For sure the log off is not what I subscribe to a paying game for, I dont want to switch countries whether it winning or losing for bunches of reasons, one being my squad members are not gunna like killing me or worst me killing them. If I wanted to be stuck flying limited plane selection I'd go to the CT arena.
One more thing, I guess if i can deal with the Eny factor and either log , fly different plane or switch countries. Well then, It seems to me, It'd be just as easy for the people to deal with, Not having any restrictions, and me not having to log fly diff plane or switch.
If that means I have to fight la7's or spits all night when the country im in is out numbered and losing our butts, well so be it! I'll deal with that much easier then the other 3 choices! I can give it , it can take it ........red rover, red rover send your la7 over! Out numbered or not!!
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somehow me mind starts thinkin'... perhaps its time to set another goal other from resetting the map or "winning the war" or at least another criteria for it and not obliterating one side to the stone age by taking their bases away.
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If that means I have to fight la7's or spits all night when the country im in is out numbered and losing our butts, well so be it! I'll deal with that much easier then the other 3 choices! I can give it , it can take it ........red rover, red rover send your la7 over! Out numbered or not!!
Real easy to say when your not in the country that is usually outnumbered.
Try swapping for a day see how much 'fun' it is now compared to pre ENY.
In fact it's still not great, but it's a huge step forward from the pre ENY situation.
An example - Few nights ago as has been stated, Rooks + Bish still equalled less than the Knits. You really think either country wouldn't have been steamrolled if the ENY wasn't in place?
Try looking at things from the outnumbered countries 'fun' aspect, not too easy if your usually in the majority.
Tactic - Whats so hard when you log on for a squaddie to say 'OK were flying for this country tonight'? No need for squaddies to be shooting each other down, communication.
SCDR - For a while now Knits have had the largest number of players on a consistent basis. Bish and Rooks seem to have the numbers advantage very rarely, and if they do it's very rare it is large enough for the ENY to kick in.
If anything I just think the level at which it starts should probably go back to the original settings, i.e. earlier but on a less severe curve.
Can anyone honestly say they only get enjoyment/fun from flying one plane only in the whole available planeset? Granted majority of the time I'm in a Tiffy, but you will also see me in P51s, Hurri 2C, IL2, Spits, F6F etc depending on the situation.
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I think the whole ENY thing is funny, in a sad sort of way.
It was REAL cool when the Knits constantly whined about the Rooks having numbers. Now, the Knits have numbers most often, and they whine about ENY, and that is even better.
I always new that Rook numerical superiority was a fleeting thing, numerical superiority in games like this is always in a state of transition. Sometimes change takes a little longer, that's all.
ENY still has its problems. When two countries have equal numbers, and the third is at a decided numerical disadvantage, the ENY system ASSumes that the two bigger countries are ganging up on the smaller country. NOT!! Oh well, that's okay too.
I don't care. But I sure like listening to losers whine about HTC playing favorites and using ENY to pick on THEM.:rofl
By the way, with regards to switching countries, the 327th has ALWAYS been a ONE COUNTRY squad, since LONG before AH. Although some members occaisionally have a shades account and swap sides, we ain't messin with tradition. It is not "loyalty to a chess piece" :rolleyes: , we were doing it that way LONg before there WERE chess pieces in flight sims. We figure we can fly whether we have numerical supriority or not, we take the good with the bad and keep right on flying. We can take a loss just as well as we can take a win. That's the way it has always been.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
SCDR - For a while now Knits have had the largest number of players on a consistent basis. Bish and Rooks seem to have the numbers advantage very rarely, and if they do it's very rare it is large enough for the ENY to kick in.
Yep Kev your right. When the squad was Bish I only saw ENY go maybe as high as 10, if that.
SCDR
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I was perfectly happy when they first tried to address things by lowering the Lala's ENY(?) to the same level as a 262 (5). I was flying Knight during the time when the Rooks were in total numerical superiority. It was really nice landing 30-50 perk sorties with regularity simply because everyone on the huge country had to fly a lala and I was in a G2 or something like it.
Seems like a good trade off to me. The bigger country can fly whatever they like and the smaller country can fill the skies with cheap Tempests and 262's, and afford to lose them in vast #s.
I don't really mind the system as it is though. I just think it was silly how a bunch of people used to complain about fighting hordes of lalas. I say a horde of Spit I's is just as aggravating.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Can anyone honestly say they only get enjoyment/fun from flying one plane only in the whole available planeset?
In my case enjoyment means staying airborne the longest and with some measure of luck actually get a kill. The KI-84 seems to do that for me. I'd love nothing more than to be able to be a master of the P51, it flies and handles just the way I like, but I get cut to ribbons in it and any other plane within a minute of con. The KI is the only plane that I can stay alive in for a couple of minutes.
I'm with Tactic, the ENY only hampers my fun/enjoyment.
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Basically it comes down to this-
Flying when grosely outnumbered isn't fun .
All ENY restrictions does if you don't want to change country is level the playing field. You can't have your cake and it eat it.
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Originally posted by thrila
Basically it comes down to this-
Flying when grosely outnumbered isn't fun .
All ENY restrictions does if you don't want to change country is level the playing field. You can't have your cake and it eat it.
Flying when grossly outnumbered is a hoot! As long as you have a few friends along with you. Being along againt the hoard gets a bit boring.
There is nothing more boring than being at a completely flattened field with a bunch of friendlies hearing, "Is there a goon on the way", "Anyone bringing a goon?", "Where is the goon?", "I thought you were bringing the goon?", "Well, i though you were bringing the goon?", "There's no troops at near by bases!" :rolleyes:
ENY almost never affects me so I give it very little thought.
I just land, ditch, bail and go find a fight somewhere else.
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Very true there Kev, that could happen. The squad I'm part of has toured all three countries, we rotate here and there. Been on all three sides of the fence, I've even been in all three countries on my own too, I've played bish , rooks , and knights all three, for months at a time in each country.
Funny thing is, all three countries, are all the same as far as players, meaning they all have there motivaters, whiners, b&z'rz, runners, good guys, bad guys, turn fighters, etc.... There's no country i dont like, there is cool people in all of them! .
To me this is not a country issue, Its a player issue, why you ask, because I'm willing to deal with no restrictions no matter what position the country is in that I'm flying for. Whether its Good -Bad -indifferent thats all.
The politics in AH can get quite heavy at times, we all, in some ways are pushing for the same things with different Remedies.
I'll admit it, I'd like to be able to fly as good as several people on aceshigh, there is guys in here that can fly most anything and do damn good in it.
I'm no where near as good as one of these pilots, names of just a few killas! , Racrx, Ezee, spazzter, jb42 , shane, murdr, kev367th and the list goes on and on. These guys are just a few of the pilots that can fly lots of different planes and be quite deadly. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE any of the people listed above on my six in any type plane , not even a Paper plane, no matter what I'm in a la7 , spit, niki what ever. I've been killed by the best players in AH and killed by the worst player in Aceshigh <---- yes I killed myself! :p
I need every little bit of help i can get, I fly really bad in the easist dweeb newbie planes, so with restrictions its just goes down hill for me.
And yes Kev my friend, out all the plane set unfortunately the only planes i can fly and like to fly are a couple of the low eny planes. I have more important things that I apply my time to in RL plus I'm just too busy learning other things in life at this time, to add in learning how to fly other planes in a game that I play for fun. More power to those of you that have the time and patience to learn this game and all the planes.
Just gimme my dweeb plane to putt around in, sight see, look for property to buy, bomb bases, scrafe just have fun.
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Originally posted by tactic
Very true there Kev, that could happen. The squad I'm part of has toured all three countries, we rotate here and there. Been on all three sides of the fence, I've even been in all three countries on my own too, I've played bish , rooks , and knights all three, for months at a time in each country.
Funny thing is, all three countries, are all the same as far as players, meaning they all have there motivaters, whiners, b&z'rz, runners, good guys, bad guys, turn fighters, etc.... There's no country i dont like, there is cool people in all of them! .
To me this is not a country issue, Its a player issue, why you ask, because I'm willing to deal with no restrictions no matter what position the country is in that I'm flying for. Whether its Good -Bad -indifferent thats all.
The politics in AH can get quite heavy at times, we all, in some ways are pushing for the same things with different Remedies.
I'll admit it, I'd like to be able to fly as good as several people on aceshigh, there is guys in here that can fly most anything and do damn good in it.
I'm no where near as good as one of these pilots, names of just a few killas! , Racrx, Ezee, spazzter, jb42 , shane, murdr, kev367th and the list goes on and on. These guys are just a few of the pilots that can fly lots of different planes and be quite deadly. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE any of the people listed above on my six in any type plane , not even a Paper plane, no matter what I'm in a la7 , spit, niki what ever. I've been killed by the best players in AH and killed by the worst player in Aceshigh <---- yes I killed myself! :p
I need every little bit of help i can get, I fly really bad in the easist dweeb newbie planes, so with restrictions its just goes down hill for me.
And yes Kev my friend, out all the plane set unfortunately the only planes i can fly and like to fly are a couple of the low eny planes. I have more important things that I apply my time to in RL plus I'm just too busy learning other things in life at this time, to add in learning how to fly other planes in a game that I play for fun. More power to those of you that have the time and patience to learn this game and all the planes.
Just gimme my dweeb plane to putt around in, sight see, look for property to buy, bomb bases, scrafe just have fun.
As honest and sincere as this post is ... I still have no sympathy for your plight.
The "list" of names on that list, are not on it because the were magically endowed with abilities ... they worked for it ... they earned it. They have flown all the planes and put the time and effort in to achieve what they know.
ENY is a game mechanisim that is here to stay. Learn to live with it ... learn to rise above it ... or get exasperated.
You say you have little time to spend to learn the different planes ... take no offense here ... BOLLOCKS !!!
Instead of always jumping in the lower ENY planes, make it a point to take the higher one ... win or lose ... die or kill ... eventually you will overcome. Find someone who CAN fly a higher ENY plane and ask them for help/tips/pointers/training. When I chose to take on the P-38 ... I latched onto Silat - CPorky - Morpheus - KillnU. Asked many questions, flew many sorties with them and at this point I would not say I am an expert in the P-38, but I can surely hold my own it. This is what you have to do.
You want to disable the ENY limiter because you don't have the time to get better in higher ENY planes ... but you would prefer those who are greatly outnumbered be completely smashed by the horde flying the lower ENY planes.
Take my word for it ... it is far less fun to endure that type of smashing country-wide, than you having to suffer the pains of flying higher ENY planes or logging.
Your reason are self-serving and don't need to be.
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Unfortuneately the almighty quest for a high -
K/S, K/D, and rank is the main culprit for the over abundance of 'dweeb' planes.
Until people realise it means diddly squat, things aint gonna change, and people wont fly (and get used to) the less uber planes because its nigh on impossible to run away in them.
Therefore when they get ENY'ed they are at a loss what to do.
A good example - next time a base is under heavy attack instead of upping the usual LA7, Nik etc, try a Hurri 2C, you'll be surprised. In a lot of cases you'll last a lot longer because of its turning ability, and it has those nasty 4x20mm hizookas.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
A good example - next time a base is under heavy attack instead of upping the usual LA7, Nik etc, try a Hurri 2C, you'll be surprised. In a lot of cases you'll last a lot longer because of its turning ability, and it has those nasty 4x20mm hizookas.
Dude, Hurri 2c is an UberNastyLittle... well, I can't say that here... that is one plane you have to be careful around.
Nik is not a runners plane. You are not running from to many in that ride. Just don't try to go vertical in your LaLa 'cause I'll catch you. :aok
To me, I really don't care what they fly. If I get killed (I do that alot) 99% of the time its because I made a mistake to give them the shot. Do some pilots force that mistake with their skills? They sure do but they are ussually not in a Uber Ride.
It's not broke, don't fix it, 2 threads in 2 forums on this subject, let it go...
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Originally posted by Howitzer
I'm sure you know why its implemented kilz, but for those who don't, its meant to encourage folks to switch sides to even out the teams. Now I don't agree with GVs being counted as part of this deal because there just aren't enough of them to limit. However, I don't have a problem with the fact a tiger couldn't be launched. You should still be able to take out panzers and t34s, but a tiger is a perk ride and I think the limiting of such powerful hardware is the whole idea of this venture.
I don't have any problem with the planes being limited either, but everyone should be able to take up an osti, m16, panzer, or m16. Otherwise, your defense against a gv attack is far limited.
I understand your frustration though.
I prefer to think the issue isn't to force side jumping, rather to disadvantage superior numbers by limiting low ENY aircraft (gvs too) that are theoretically better (hence, the low ENY).