Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on June 01, 2005, 03:44:27 PM
-
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050531-110035-3165r.htm
Maybe it will help the Army's recruiting numbers. :aok
-
One Wisconsin lawmaker figures if the U.S. military trusts 19-year-olds with a $10 million tank, then the state should trust them with a beer.
Give em a case and then put em the tanks. Problem solved. :)
-
so you can vote, be sent off to die in a war, but not have a drink legally, that's asinine.
all should be 18 period.
-
letting punk kids drive at 16 is bad. Agree 18 is a good age defining adulthood across the entire legal system.
-
Its not illegal to drink alcohol if you are under 18 here.
Its illegal to sell alcohol to those, who are under 18.
But once you are 18, you can simply do what ever you want to do....
Sit in park and drink your favourit whisky, vodka....
Or enjoy your beer, while you are sitting on the main squer... (yeep even w/o camo :D )
But most people prefer some confortable pub or bar :cool:
-
if you can claim yourself as a dependant on your tax form you ought to be able to grab a beer on the way home from work.
there is no age where you magicly become an adult. it's when you start pulling your own weight.
-
^^^^
truth!
-
old enough to serve then you are old enough to vote and drink if that is what you desire.
pick an age and make it the same for all those things.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Jackal1
Give em a case and then put em the tanks. Problem solved. :)
a fully armed tank!
-
hehehe
it was those of us who could drink at 18 which caused them to up the age :)
now-a-days it should be 21 for everything: drive, drink, war as the youth of today do not have a clue
-
Originally posted by lazs2
old enough to serve then you are old enough to vote and drink if that is what you desire.
pick an age and make it the same for all those things.
lazs
Yep, to include crime and punishment.
-
Isn't this proposition only for 18yr olds in the service?? Does that seem fair?
-
It's a boondoggle that'll never fly. The proposition calls for allowing 19 and 20 year old servicemen and women from Wisconsin to be allowed to drink in Wisconsin. Military ID and a valid Wisconsin drivers license would be required.
Ultimately it would require an act of Congress to allow one state to alter the drinking age for a tiny proportion of it's population. This change is DOA and frankly, I'm not that unhappy. The way our 18-20 year old shiny new E-1s drive around here is already dangerous enough... They are generally a little safer after they've done a tour or two and matured enough to learn that they don't actually have the magical invulnerability and immortality bubble around them.
- SEAGOON
-
Think a law is going to stop 19-20 year olds from drinking in Wisconsin? The beer capital?
But that ^ is here nor there.
Drinking age - 16
Driving age - 18
Harsher penalties (excluding jail time) on first time DUI offenders. Revoke driving privileges, larger fines. You're gonna drink, then you're gonna be responsible and not drive above the limit.
Maybe some responsibility will develop in the two years before those who choose to drink get behind the wheel.
-
just a lot of BS talk. Will never happen. Why?
The 21 yr old drinking age was forced upon the states due to the Fed holding up huge amounts of federal highway funding if they did not raise the drinking age to 21. This was a ploy to attract the votes of the MADD supporters.
No offense to any of the ladies BUT this is another example of the incredible {un}intellegence of the female voter. Thier big gripe was that kids (18-20) were drinking and dying on the highways. True they were, but for the most part they were killing themselves. It's the 40+ mostly white males drinkling at happy hour that were and still are killing the mom & 3 kids in the mini van. These guys are reponsible for more innocent deaths than any number of 18-20 yr olds. Never seen any law to stop these guys.
Problem is all we did was take them out of the clubs and put them in to thier homes and behind shopping malls. They are still drinking and the are still driving. Just more ineffective feel good legislation.
-
Originally posted by Octavius
Think a law is going to stop 19-20 year olds from drinking in Wisconsin? The beer capital?
But that ^ is here nor there.
Drinking age - 16
Driving age - 18
Harsher penalties (excluding jail time) on first time DUI offenders. Revoke driving privileges, larger fines. You're gonna drink, then you're gonna be responsible and not drive above the limit.
oddly enough, currently those ages are reversed (here), and for the exact same reason...gives us kids some respect for the car before we start drinking (legally)
im also liking this dump a ****load of responsibility on people in one go rather than ease em in nicely you guys are promoting...
as for wisconsan...its not like there not just jumping the border into canada to get wasted anyway...
-
well let me just sell you this from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
I reported to camp pendlton, CA the weekend before April 1st 1996. That weekend was the LAST weekend 18 year olds could drink and buy beer (yes they could only buy beer) on base.
It just so happens this was one of the selling points for the military for me and they changed the rules. That weekend I had guard duty and instead of drinking and living it up I was breaking up all sorts of fights at the E-clubs. The Mrines were living it up because it was there last chance to legally do so. (side note: this was also when E clubs were the place to be. The Del Mar Eclub was a happenin spot)
OK fast forward a bit. This did not stop 18 year olds from drinking...now they did it in their rooms quietly....they did it with fake IDs in clubs....and worse....they did it in Mexico. What this did was shift the "problems" off base and out into the public. Most notable was when a young Marine was driving home from mexico drunk and killed a family on their way to disneyland.
The irony here is you could still drink underage at most overseas installations. This didn't last too long though either. I say give them a "beer card" for on base, they screw up they lose it.
There is no reason a GROWN MAN who's seen combat on the streets of faluja should not be able to have a beer back home.
-
poepl should learn to drink *before* they learn to drive...
-
Allowing the kids to drink may work. Or drafting the 101st Fighting Keyboardists might help. Lord knows
there is a problem. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=810405)
Getting close to being only a couple of choices left. Leave Iraq, or draft. Is there an alternative I'm missing?
-
Raise the pay, increase the GI Bill benefits, build better housing on base, improve the free medical care for the entire soldier's family, improve the ability to earn college credits while in service, increase SGLI....
in short, spend money.
You want an all volunteer military, it's costs will vary with what the volunteers expect to do.
Right now, the price of volunteers is up.
-
Is the money for happy homes there, when it isn't there (http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001581.html) for training?
-
Any state can set any age as the legal drinking age. The problem is, if they set it below 21 they lose ALL federal highway funding.
-
You asked if there was anything else that could be done. The answer is "yes".
Do they need more money for training too? Probably some but probably not as much as they claim.
Wars are expensive. Trying to have "guns and butter" is even more expensive.
Wonder how many volunteers we'd get if the only thing the army did was guard good lookin' chicks in bikinis.
Watch and see... the US and its military will survive this "end of the world" crisis in recruiting.
I think I'll save my angst for something else.
-
I think I'll save my angst for something else.
Ahhhh.. ummmm...
I got nothin.
;)
-
Originally posted by Toad
Watch and see... the US and its military will survive this "end of the world" crisis in recruiting.
Yeah, and you're really the go-to guy for these kinds of predictions.
Sorry. But....
And I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the fact that there is a shortage. Your rosy picture of fixing it through better housing and medical care etc. aint in the cards and we both know it. It's not a realistic response to the issue. Hell, the drinking age prolly has a better shot.
-
VRB's will come back.
If that don't work, we'll draft illegal immigrants insteda deporting them.
See,, that was easy.
Next?
-
this isn't a crisis. This is nothing compared to the recruiting shortage during the job market boom of the late 90s.
Retention/recruiting during that time sucked. Why enlist or stay in when I can get out and make 3x's that much (that's what I said in 2001.....(at least until 9/11) Even Navy Carriers were sailing 200 sailors short during deployments (wich were up 300%)
The marines were going to give me $30k and orders to Pensacola, FL instructor duty (choice assignment) and I turned it down to go work in silcon valley. I'd be an E-7 right now if I'd stayed in.
Our pay since then has increased draticly....almost every base I've been to is building new housing or new barracks. Bonuses in alot of the shortage areas are up. (side note: the USAF just cut the Egress bonus.....A co-worker just got $50k to reup....I can't re-up till next year :( )
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
this isn't a crisis.
Our pay since then has increased draticly....almost every base I've been to is building new housing or new barracks. Bonuses in alot of the shortage areas are up.
yet...
-
When I was 18-19-20 I would have agreed with this... Now I would like the minimum drinking age set to 46.
-
Nash, I love your negativity. It's refreshing to have something that stable to count upon.
Step away from it........ you REALLY think this is the end of the US military? You REALLY think it's the end of the US as a world power?
Recruiting is down.... yep, it happens for a variety of reasons just like Guns pointed out. (BTW, you asked if there were any possibilities you were overlooking. I pointed one out. You feel it's highly unlikely they'll spend more in many areas to recruit. I feel it's much more likely they'll spend rather than draft. Draft is what's unlikely. IMO. Nonetheless, spending is something you overlooked.)
Be interesting to see a graph of Army recruits vs goals over the last 50 years, wouldn't it? I'm guessing it's not a perfect match...what do you guess?
You're becoming the go-to "Chicken Little" guy of the BBS when there's any possibility of poking and prodding to produce insecurity and worry over the good ole US.
Trust me.... we're here bigtime for your lifetime and a bunch more besides. Pretty much all you need to worry about, right? Unclench your hair roots.
-
Originally posted by Toad
Nash, I love your negativity. It's refreshing to have something that stable to count upon.
Step away from it........ you REALLY think this is the end of the US military? You REALLY think it's the end of the US as a world power?
Er, no Toad. That's not what I said at all.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Getting close to being only a couple of choices left. Leave Iraq, or draft. Is there an alternative I'm missing?
Right, no negativity there. Thanks, my mistake.
-
a subtle vote of no-confidence.
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
When I was 18-19-20 I would have agreed with this... Now I would like the minimum drinking age set to 46.
Amazing how the perspective changes as we age.
for example, in their early years -when they are young and naive- many people come out loudly against the idea of bringing back the draft or our involvement in unnecessary wars. however when they reach 30 or so the idea doesn't seem to bother them nearly as much as it had before.
-
Originally posted by Toad
Right, no negativity there. Thanks, my mistake.
lol. It's not like I aint negative about a few things. It's not like a few things don't bug me. But telling me I'm negative and then making up examples of it such as the collapse of the military and the end of the US as a superpower, which I've never said, in order to paint me with that brush makes you a bit more negative than me, I think.
-
Originally posted by capt. apathy
Amazing how the perspective changes as we age.
for example, in their early years -when they are young and naive- many people come out loudly against the idea of bringing back the draft or our involvement in unnecessary wars. however when they reach 30 or so the idea doesn't seem to bother them nearly as much as it had before.
Naw.. that still bothers me.
-
Nash, you are the surrogate US hand-wringer on this board. IMO, of course.
Not that they're aren't a few native hand-wringers. Still, I appreciate your deep concern for our well being.
I don't know how to thank you enough.
-
BTW Nash, it's going to be a slow Friday night here.. pouring rain.
Any chance of one of your famous Friday Night Fishing Expeditions?
-
Pouring rain here too.
So yeah, maybe... Anything in particular you'd like to discuss?
I'm kind of burned out, though. It may take some warming up to get in my usual sanctimonious and vitriolic groove.
-
Well, we could try "False BBS sanctimoniousness and vitriolicity for $200, Alex."
-
Har har.
:)
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
When I was 18-19-20 I would have agreed with this... Now I would like the minimum drinking age set to 46.
Ok let go for 50 (it sound better than 46 :p)