Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on January 17, 2001, 02:05:00 PM
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First, you know that handy dandy field gunner position bitmap you have for the CV? Copy it and place a field skin over it with 6-10 circles immulating a ME163 A/C.
Then add either vertical launch rails or a dirt airfield at the HQ only.
Give it 5 min. of fuel, as they used to have (Think it was 5 min...)
They cannot be launched until an enemy con is within the sector, ie. they are not available to anyone until an enemy is within such and such a distance from HQ. (don't know if its possible, but try..)
If all the ME163 circles are occupied, it means that all available A/C have been launched, and no one else can launch another for -XX- time period and/or until another con is detected in the HQ area...basically first come, first serve, like the CV guns are.
Make the 163 very volitile (as I hear they were) with only 1 or 2 pings killing them..this will make the buffers happy.
Reasons: It will be just another amazing feature that AH has, and no one else has it, thus, "offer the public something the competition doesn't have, and they seek you out" theory.
More on the ME163 Poll: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/007504.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/007504.html)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-17-2001).]
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DOH! thought I was in Gameplay forum, my apologies!
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Might as well have SAM's Rip! Heh.
Just imagine how much fun being a radar operator on an SA-3 could be.
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Originally posted by Moose11:
Just imagine how much fun being a radar operator on an SA-3 could be.
Or NOT be: "If I trip that switch, I broadcast to any A/C with 100 miles a nice micro-wave highway for an incoming ATG missile..." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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7 mins of fuel Rip. And they were only volatile if there was a hit in the rocket engine or both of the rocket fuel lines. When T-stoff and C-Stoff (I think that's the names) mix, they become combustible. 1 or 2 hits into the fuel tank or engine, blammo. Otherwise they can take damage like anything else.
-SW
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Also, they weren't launched off of rails. They had a dolly that was jettisoned after takeoff. If they jettisoned too high, it would bounce back upinto the bottom of the plane and that was it for that pilot and plane.
They had a retractable skid underneath the plane that was lowered for landing. The pilot had to come in slow and at the right angle, otherwise he would compress his spinal column because the skid wasn't shock absorbing. So if a guy came in to fast in the game, the plane wouldn't blow up but the pilot could be counted as "dead".
-SW
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Rgr, that wulfe, I only mentioned launch rails cause someone else had in another thread, thought my mind was fading, and couldn't remember if they had them or not...also, look at the ME163, all but 5 feet IS ENGINE/FUEL TANK...(okay, you got wings too!) LOL!
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Actually, the inboard portion of the wings contained fuel tanks as well. The only areas that don't have areas you can hit that won't blow it up are the vert stab, the nose, the pilot seat and the area of the wings where the fixed leading edge slot is. The nose cone was solid armor (15mm) so damaging the electrical system(where it is) is gonna be hard. You could hit the small prop that creates electricity and have a power failure that way. I'm not sure if the control surfaces are electricly driven or not. The tank right behind the pilot is unprotected, so a single hit above the wings and behind the pilot would result in an instant explosion. I don't remember exactly, but I think the 163 had an ejection seat?
Of course this could all be a moot point since it would be hard to model elevon's with the current flight model parameters.. I think.
But... there was a 163 in WB you could fly offline. I don't know if they got any further than that?
-SW
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Bring it ON !
My full reply is HERE : http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/001353.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/001353.html)
Saw
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How many hours/sorties did an average WWII pilot have in Me163?
Many people would quickly accumulate hundreds of hours in those planes and make them much more deadly then they were in real life.
That would make buffers beg to weaken them and if it is done, a newbie would not be able to use them at all!
We have the same problem with long-range gunnery, but at least all planes are affected equally because all have guns.
Short experience of a pilot was a feature of Me163 and there is no way to reproduce it here.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 01-17-2001).]
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I remember flying the Me262 and Me163 back in WB 1.11 in the Training Arena.
It was a lot of fun!
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Actually, a hit to the hydrogen peroxide line and the pilot would literally be dissolved as he flew the plane. That was one of the dangers of that takeoff dolly - apparently the line was glass-lined and fairly fragile. A big bump and scrubbing bubbles flooded the cockpit. Probably not unlike the Wicked Witch of the West... "I'm meltinggggg"
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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Originally posted by PakRat:
Actually, a hit to the hydrogen peroxide line and the pilot would literally be dissolved as he flew the plane. That was one of the dangers of that takeoff dolly - apparently the line was glass-lined and fairly fragile. A big bump and scrubbing bubbles flooded the cockpit. Probably not unlike the Wicked Witch of the West... "I'm meltinggggg"
Yep that's what it did all right. The thing is they only had one pass on fuel. Then maybe 2 or 3 more passes where they were empty. On the last couple passes you could probably fill them full of holes before they went down. It's the climb and initial approach that would be the 'fun' part. I watched an interview with a lady that flew the 163. They got a surprising amount of stick time in it. There were 300 made. The thing is they were so damn fast that they were very hard to target with. They only made 9 confirmed kills out of all 300 planes. Even given the fact that people could potentially get a LOT of stick time in it I don't think it would be a major threat. I say put them on and try it out. If they get to dweeby bump the perk point cost up a bunch. I want to see them. It would be fun just to watch them scream up to intercept. They had such a limited amount of fuel that you better time it right or your not going to shot at a thing. I think if you want to squeak about any plane appearing on here it would be the 262. It's a FAR more practical and usable plane than the 163. The 163 will NEVER be a fighter or an attack aircraft. The 262 can do ALL of those roles. The 163 is candy the 262 is a threat. The 262 isn't a dog fighter and the pilots that tried to use them that way found it out. When they used them like the energy fighter they were they were lethal. I want to see the 262 on here it just needs to be expensive. The 163 would be a toy in my opinion. Like I said it can always be made more expensive if I'm wrong.
PS I would love to see ALL the planes that flew in here in WWII. They just need to be balanced so they don't unbalance the arena.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-18-2001).]
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I say go ahead and implement em in the MA. This is the one plane where the "perk" idea would work. Make it the only perk plane and make it pretty hard to get. I don't think the thing would be a threat to fighters but it would give lone suicide buffs fits. It would be a fun plane to have without causing too much uproar IMO. Just an interesting touch without really unbalancing things.
lazs
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Er, guys, Hydrogen peroxide by itself would do nothing to the pilot but make his hair orange! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Er, guys, Hydrogen peroxide by itself would do nothing to the pilot but make his hair orange! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
No, not in the consentration were talking about. Were not talking about the stuff you buy at the store. It's about 3% solution the rest is water. The stuff in those was 100% and deadly as hell. It would melt you to a blob of jello. The stuff for hair is about 10%.
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From the book I have, its a combination of T-Stoff and C-Stoff that gets you fried, both chemicals inert by themselves...
T-stoff=H.P.
I would not like to be in a crash with an aircraft full
of liquid oxygen. Another possibility would be fuming nitric acid, or dinitrogen tetroxide, but anyone
who was has tried working with either will realise the problems involved. Instead, hydrogen
peroxide could be handled relatively easily with a modicum of training, and it also has the advantage
that it can be easily dispersed with copious qunatities of water.
From: http://members.aol.com/nicholashl/ukspace/htp/htp.htm (http://members.aol.com/nicholashl/ukspace/htp/htp.htm)
Now granted, 100% peroxide cannot be good for your health, but it certainly wouldn't melt you by itself, I don't believe...post a link if I am wrong.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-18-2001).]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
From the book I have, its a combination of T-Stoff and C-Stoff that gets you fried, both chemicals inert by themselves...
Well if that's what your book says it's a little off. It is the enzymes in our skin that H2O2 reacts with. They act as a catalyst for the reaction. This is how H2O2 cleans a wound. Think what it would do in 100% solution all over your body
Look at the C-stoff. It's hydrazine hydrate, methyl alcohol and water. Lets just look at the methyl alcohol. Go get a bottle of methyl alcohol and poor it all over yourself and tell me it's inert. Just breathing the vapor of methyl alcohol can cause blindness or death. It's used as a solvent. As you noted H2O2 could be dispersed with copious amounts of water. If it wasn't available soon enough you were in trouble. Here's an example of what a high concentration of H2O2 will do to you. My mother was a hair dresser for 22 yrs. She worked with H202 all the time. They sent out a batch of bleach that had to high of a content of H2O2 in it. They had to recall it because it was melting the hair right off of people and leaving severe burns on the scalp. It isn't something to screw with. Ask any hair dresser they can tell you.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-18-2001).]
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Hi
I know one of them C-stoff or T-stoff will set organic matter on fire, saw a LW demo film of this where a guy dips a rag into C or T and the whole thing lights up. Its litte wonder the 163 pilots wore rubber suits.
Bout 163 in AH, it could be done by only enabling 163 from a few of the larger bases, and creating 1 special 163 field close to HQ- this doesnt have to be anything fancy as 163 flew off of grass only. This way we could use it as a point defense interceptor, and it prolly wouldnt affect the game too badly as far as becoming a bomber scourge. It should be limited to numbers in use at one time and/or field, kinda like the manual guns on ships. Should prolly cost a few perkies.
thanks GRUNHERZ
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Very well thought out Rip. I really like your plan. Sounds very interesting. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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This sounds more like my high school chemistry class.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Lt. Col. Aaron "txace-" Giles of the 457th BG
"Fait Accompli"
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The problem is the no fear of being killed issue. Everyone would jump in every chance they got. Every time a base was assulted the sky would be full of them.
In RL, after the fuel was burned, the pilot had to glide back to base. This is when we "allied oppurtunists" shot them down most of the time.
In order to put Uber weapons like this one in the game, there needs to be a penalty for death.
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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
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Well the 163 would be a perk and only available at certain fields.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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COOL! I'm all for it!
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Give em to the outnumbered team (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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S! all
As someone mentioned above, the Me163 got only 9 kills in all the time it was operational. That is with 2 Staffels flying it starting in mid 1944. Far more than 9 German pilots crashed, got dissolved, exploded in mid air or were shot down. The Me163 was a failed experiment, continued only because Hitler liked the idea. If AH creates a fictional functional Me163 that is not subject to the problems, then perhaps it might become popular. But if the flying pilot has to deal with the real German pilot's possibilities of dying, then I doubt many will want to take the chance.
Build a Me163 when you've got nothing else left to build. (and include a sound effect where the pilot starts screaming when the C-Stoff or T-Stoff gets on him and starts to dissolve his face) Right now a 262 is a far better choice for investing the limited HTC development time.
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Originally posted by Buzzbait:
S! all
As someone mentioned above, the Me163 got only 9 kills in all the time it was operational. That is with 2 Staffels flying it starting in mid 1944. Far more than 9 German pilots crashed, got dissolved, exploded in mid air or were shot down. The Me163 was a failed experiment, continued only because Hitler liked the idea. If AH creates a fictional functional Me163 that is not subject to the problems, then perhaps it might become popular. But if the flying pilot has to deal with the real German pilot's possibilities of dying, then I doubt many will want to take the chance.
Build a Me163 when you've got nothing else left to build. (and include a sound effect where the pilot starts screaming when the C-Stoff or T-Stoff gets on him and starts to dissolve his face) Right now a 262 is a far better choice for investing the limited HTC development time.
I was the one who posted the kill figure. I agree with what your saying about it being a complete waste of German resources. As a matter of fact I have posted that myself. There are 2 reasons why I think it will be ok to put the 163 on here. 1st it is a perk plane. The perk point value of the plane can be easily modified if it becomes to popular. 2nd I think it will be a difficult plane to get kills in. The 1st reason is the best of all. It will be VERY easy to make it rare just put a high price on it. I think that we will here more squeaking about the 262 than the 163. The 262 is a far more potent weapon. The 163 is a toy, eye candy. I want it on here because I would love to see all of the planes that reached operational statues during WWII on here. I would also like to see them represented in a proportion that reflects there actual production. In my opinion that is the only reason the F4U-C needs to be perked. If my figures are right there were fewer chogs built than 163's!
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I think that Rip has it right. Like the field gunner model, there would only be so many 163's available at a time from a given location. Once shot down, that 163 isn't available for a certain "rebuild" time. The 163 might be another one of those fun diversions (like the PT, Tanks, gunners) that we all turn to after getting a bit flustered with fighters.
If you put a high perk price on the 163, no one would fly them.