Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dago on June 04, 2005, 09:46:15 AM
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One again some pathetically insecure person who had to try to prove his masculinity with big strong dogs has been the cause of another childs death. This time it was his own son who died due to his fathers self-image problems.
I understand the reason some legislatures outlaw pit bulls.
dago
Proving your a man with a Pit Bull (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=533&e=3&u=/ap/20050604/ap_on_re_us/fatal_dog_mauling)
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This guy (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/) has a compound with about 30 pitbulls, rottweillers, and dobemans. They basically run free within it and they are ALL well behaved.
Surprised me...
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This always makes me sick. There are plenty of big strong dog breeds out there that are also gentle giants.
Shoot, here in the DFW area you can adopt a Great Dane for $100. You get more dog for your money and get an actual pet and not a time bomb.
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Originally posted by Sandman
This guy (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/) has a compound with about 30 pitbulls, rottweillers, and dobemans. They basically run free within it and they are ALL well behaved.
Surprised me...
A guy like that knows how to care and handle the dogs. Unfortunately I see too many of the Hey Look At Me types with pitbulls. It's getting cliche. You'll usually see a trailor , a couple of kids un-supervised. A wife or Ole Lady who looks like she gets the crap beat out of her, then Mr Tough Guy with his Pitbull.:rolleyes: Ahh East Texas.
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Originally posted by Shifty
A guy like that knows how to care and handle the dogs. Unfortunately I see too many of the Hey Look At Me types with pitbulls.
Yeah and then they try to "train" what is considered the more agressive breeds to protect, attack, and kill or they just abuse and beat them.
Love and take care of just about any dog and it will protect you when it needs to. Will probably have better judgement of what is/isn't a threat too.
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I'd make my remark about pit bulls and what should be done with them...but the "i own a pit bull and it's a great dog " morons will show up and say how it's the owners and not the dog(which is NOT the case)
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Originally posted by Heiliger
Yeah and then they try to "train" what is considered the more agressive breeds to protect, attack, and kill or they just abuse and beat them.
Love and take care of just about any dog and it will protect you when it needs to. Will probably have better judgement of what is/isn't a threat too.
Nailed it.
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best to simply be able to shoot em when you need to.
lazs
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Where I work, and yes I am working now..
At a vet hospital, there is a bulldog/lab I think mix, and a full blood bulldog..
Male and Female the full buldog is male, and he is the sweetest thing, he's calm, yeah he has got a bark, but he hasn't bitten me yet, and I'm the one who yanks him out of his cage, takes him for a walk then shove him back into the cage, Only time he's growled at me was when I stared into his eyes, to gage his reaction, and this was before he knew me..
Outlaw an animal and next thing you know, common house cats must be GPS'd and wear muzzles when outside.
Outlaw the owners, have some people who check up on animals, like social workers, hell it might trim down this kinda stuff, but we all know how the US Adoption program thing is going..
I could show you the meanest 4lb dog in the world where I work, it's not the breed, it's psychological or the owners, or abuse..
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Sorry if I dont see you as either experienced on animal behavior or people behavior yet hawk.
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Originally posted by Dago
Sorry if I dont see you as either experienced on animal behavior or people behavior yet hawk.
Agreed.
Is Hawklore asking us to weigh this singular and probably probably short timed experience with a pit bull against the numerous pit bull attacks that have not just maimed but killed not only children but men and women?!?!
Surely that isn't what he is saying.
And saying that cats will be next, etc is just silly, young man.
The Straw Man falleth down.
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Just don't go where pitbulls are and there's nothing to worry about. Carry a gun in case one attacks you. Seems pretty clear cut to me.;)
Les
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Originally posted by Hawklore
I could show you the meanest 4lb dog in the world where I work, it's not the breed, it's psychological or the owners, or abuse..
Sometimes that is true, but you can't ask a dog to go against what it was bred for. I can train my collies to not try and herd ducks into a circle, but I can't really cry foul if they slip up and do it.
An owner can make any dog turn mean. But some just have it in their blood.
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An owner can make any dog turn mean. But some just have it in their blood.
very true..i think most of it is how they are raised
morons will show up and say how it's the owners and not the dog(which is NOT the case)
do you got absolute proof that its the dog not the owners? i seen alot of breeds taught to be mean..same with people...we all got a little killer in are blood...but if we grow up wrong or abused..we mite kill..should we outlaw people too?.lol..i believe most dog attacks are how they are raised by there owners
i have owned german shepards<~~killer dogs for sure..none of mine ever bit kids or snapped or growled at anyone..they were too busy being happy then to worry about there environment ..i have owned a boxer...lab...dashound....and right now i own a 260 pound saint bernard named argo..none of them have ever bit anyone...i dont make them fight other dogs..or train them to be mean...i raised each of those dogs from pups..i have never had a mean one yet..but i sure there are exceptions..and you get a mentaly unsafe dog
so lets outlaw people!!! the real killers:)..lol..think im going to start makin threads called... another person attack!!..guess i cant do that.dont think i could post that many attacks..lol
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When I was a young teen selling door to door in the summer, I had a German Shepard manage to open a screen door to get at me. He bit me on the leg, then ran away.
There is the differance between most dogs and a Pit Bull. The German Shepard bit me, let go, then ran. The Pit Bull would have kept attacking me until I was dead.
BIG DIFFERANCE.
People who say "it's just the owner" don't have a clue. They are ignorant of the fact that animals have an inbred nature, and though it might appear dormant, at some point it very well may surface.
My Golden Retriever had the typical disposition of a Golden Retriever. Friendly and gentle, I can't imagine it ever attacking, and only fighting in defense of it's life.
A Pit Bull is given to attacking, and even in defense mode, it will not stop until it kills.
No excuse for the continued breeding of the dog that has proven over and over to be a threat to life.
dago
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There is the differance between most dogs and a Pit Bull. The German Shepard bit me, let go, then ran. The Pit Bull would have kept attacking me until I was dead.
i dont think there is a big diffrence..you ever see faces of death? one of them have a video of 2 burglers breaking into a car lot...one guy barly gets out with a german on his tail,,other guy gets attacked then drug down and mauled to death..pretty soon its just a dead body being drug around for hours and hours!! while the cam goes back and fourth,,and there still attacking the hell out of it,,even know he is dead..and when the police show up,,they have to shoot the 2 dogs to get them off the body...so dont think just because you got bit and let you go will happen every time.no matter what breed it is
People who say "it's just the owner" don't have a clue. They are ignorant of the fact that animals have an inbred nature, and though it might appear dormant, at some point it very well may surface.
all dogs are inbreeded....i dont like pittbulls they are ugly..but i have seen very nice ones i would trust...and i seen some german and labs i wouldnt trust with anyone,,lol..some people dont have a clue if they think there raising doesnt effect there behavior...dago do you really think it doesnt matter if you beat a dog every day and feed it raw meat and teach it too attack..compaired to a dog that was threated like a person and with respect? i think its foolish to say it doesnt matter
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Originally posted by hyena426
i dont think there is a big diffrence..you ever see faces of death?
Why would I watch that video? Heck no, let the sick and morbid watch it.
dago do you really think it doesnt matter if you beat a dog every day and feed it raw meat and teach it too attack..compaired to a dog that was threated like a person and with respect? i think its foolish to say it doesnt matter
No doubt you can teach any dog to be mean, obviously. But, some dogs dont need to be taught, some have the natural instinct to attack. Do you think it is some weird coincidence that Pit Bulls attack and kill so many times? Why dont we read about Golden Retrievers mauling and killing regularly? I gotta believe there are more Goldens in this country than Pit Bulls. Coincidence? Hardly, and it isnt just how the dogs were raised. I imagine a lot of those Pit Bulls who killed weren't mistreated.
Is anyone actually gonna say each Pit Bull death, each and every one was the result of a bad owner? You gonna say each owner had routinely beaten the dog? Taught it to kill?
dago
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Breeding for temperament (aggressive, docile or inbetween) has been deliberately going on for a long, long time. It works.
That said, any breed's results will show the bell curve.
With a Lab, the vast majority will be overwhelmingly non-threatening to humans.
Take a breed that's been bred to fight and kill and you can realistically expect different results.
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Why would I watch that video? Heck no, let the sick and morbid watch it.
sold millions of copies..i dont own it..but i seen it..and it was sick..but oohh so true...you said germans wont maul you to death..i seen it on video..and wasnt just mauled to death..was mauled long after death for hours and hours..all night
Do you think it is some weird coincidence that Pit Bulls attack and kill so many times?
only 15 to 20 people die a year from dog bites..is that so awfull and horrifiing to handle? more people die eating food than to dogs..lol
In fact, no breed of dog has more than 0.1% of it's members involved in serious attacks. It would be absurd to say that 0.1% of the dogs in any breed are 'merely fulfilling their genetic destiny' by attacking someone or something, and that the 99.9% of all dogs who never attack, are behaving somehow "abnormally" by not behaving aggressively. Most dogs never attack anyone, and that includes the often maligned breeds, too! If any breed were 'genetically predisposed to attack', certainly more than 0.1% of them would!
In regards to the theory that aggression can be either inherited or genetically linked, what unique, relevant genetic information could possibly be shared by:
the Labrador/Rottweiler cross (Sporting/Working Group) that killed one of its owner's children,
the Soft-Coated Wheaton Terrier (Terrier Group) that killed a neighbour's dog,
the purebred Golden Retriever (Sporting Group) that killed its owner's child,
the Border Collie (AKC, Herding Group) that viciously attacked a neighbour's dog,
the purebred Pomerananian (Toy Group) that killed the owner's child,
or the purebred Bullmastiff (Working Group) that killed one of its owner's child's friends?
In fact, the ACTUAL dogs involved in attacks do not share any unique genetic information with each other, besides that which makes them dogs
The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictibility is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)
In all fairness, therefore, it must be noted that:
Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner most often is responsible -- not the breed, and not the dog.
An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).
Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be likely to bite. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack. <~~strait from dog bite .com...even they say it has to do with the owners not the dog breed
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German Shepards are sweeties unless trained to be guard dogs. Best guard dog is a small dog that barks at strangers. Guaranteed to scare off territorial interlopers.:D
Les
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Dogs are just like people
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"
Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner most often is responsible -- not the breed, and not the dog.
An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).
Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be likely to bite. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack. <~~strait from dog bite .com...even they say it has to do with the owners not the dog breed"
of course, most people arnt "responsible (read: excellent)" owners, the average/common owner wouldnt be able to keep certain breeds interested and happy, they dont have the time, patience or facilities.
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Originally posted by lazs2
best to simply be able to shoot em when you need to.
lazs
Lol.... I thought of you last Sunday, lazs. And of packin' heat.
I was out fishing. Takin' a break on shore. There was a pitbull there. I was eating a sandwich.
Now, I am absolutely freaking TERRIFIED of pitbulls. My worst nightmare. Out of everything. I am terrified of crows only second.
My problem is that, well, it turns out that they can sense fear and they don't like it one gawdamned bit.
So I basically end up getting attacked by dogs and crows all the freakin' time.
So you know, of course, I've been trying to think of ways of limiting my exposure to such attacks. And all I've come up with is to try and not give them any idea, even the slightest suspicion that I basically hate them.
So my next experience on this riverbank would be the test. I'd act all casual "good doggy" style. And it was cool for about 5 minutes.
I even asked the owner: "Is your dog cool?"
"Oh yeah" he said, "she loves people. Wouldn't hurt a fly."
So, right on... I'm getting all in the hang of acting casual. In fact it worked so well that I could actually feel a sense of calmness washing over me. And the dog was just hangin' out, being cool. I am thinking, "this is great." I am thinking, there is no shrecking WAY that this dog can sense that I HATE ITS shreckING GUTS!
That's when all hell broke loose.
It charged over to me (bolted!), from about 20 feet away and skidded to a stop about 2-3 feet in front of me. "GRRRRRRRR" it said, in the barred fang business style that only pitbulls can pull off with any authority.
I, uhm... well I took the sandwich that I was holding and tossed it
about 10 feet to the side. It happened in an instant, and I could be mistaken, but I think the dog and I shared a moment of humour when we both realized the decision making process involved in either going after a 1/2 pound of stale processed 7/11 meat, versus getting about 180 pounds of the real thing.
The dog was still "grrrrrrring", and in the "I am about to make one terrific leap at your jugular and wreck your whole entire day" posture. I took one step back. It took one step forward. I put my right hand over my heart like I read discourages some bear attacks. It had no effect.
I didn't even hear it, but the owner scrambled out of the water and made its way towards us. I don't know the cause/effect relationship to the events but the result was that the dog was now on its hind legs doing the 'road runner' animation while the owner held it back by its neck.
So, whatever. I live.
But I am mightily pissed off. "Sorry," the owner says. "She's not like this," he says.
At that point, I am thinking about how if there wasn't the owner around, I could in fact quite likely not have survived the encounter. I am thinking about a gun. I am thinking about lazs. I am thinking that everyone of those dogs should be euthanized.
I am also thinking now about how I'll never get over my fear of them, which only increases the odds that my fear will be manifestly justified in future encounters. I am so screwed.
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Nash I had a similar encounter with a pair of pit bulls once.
In my front yard.
They had gotten loose from the pen the drug smuggler down the road was keeping them in, and were exploring.
2 rounds of 12 guage 3 inch 00 Buck from the riot gun I keep handy next to the front door of the house solved the problem immediately.
Being armed is a good thing.
culero
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I was out jogging and was attacked by a dog, maybe a pitbull. It was the one time I left my .44 at home. In retrospect, I wouldn't have shot that dog even if I had the revolver with me. I didn't have to, and I would have been tempted, but things didn't work out that way, so I had to use Karate.
Les
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LOL are you kidding me? You used Karate on a dog? That rules!
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Les, with all due respect, any time any dog is unrestrained and off its owner's homestead and exhibits aggressive behavior toward a citizen, it should be put down. With extreme prejudice.
Just for perspective, I am a "dog guy". I've owned and handled large dogs all my life, and have always subscribed to the "dog is man's best friend" philosophy. I love 'em. I don't believe pit bulls are a bad breed, and have known many that were perfectly tractable individuals. They are simply very strong and peculiarly equipped by bred-in characteristics for fighting, therefore dangerous if uncontrolled.
I just firmly believe that dogs of all breeds are the responsibility of their owner to control, and that if said owner fails to do so then the best interests of the community are served by summary execution by whichever citizen encounters the out of control animal.
Of course, I feel the same way about thieves and other malcreant people, so take what I say with a grain of salt :)
culero
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Originally posted by culero
They are simply very strong and peculiarly equipped by bred-in characteristics for fighting, therefore dangerous if uncontrolled.
Why do I picture an automatic gun, gaff taped to the hand of an epileptic?
tick tock.
Kill 'em all.
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You could have done it Nash, the way he attacked, straight on with forceful speed, after jumping a 6' fence, lunging into the air right before I punched it in the nose. It settld down instantly. Couldn't run, I was payimg attention to that.;)
And didn't have my gun, so there's no way of determining if a man can get in a physical fight and conceal a gun at the same time. I doubt it, I couldn't do it.
Les
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As long as we're getting into specifics, I've obviously given it a lot of thought:
How to win at Pitbull war.
Best I've got is gouge out the eyes. But not sure I'd get the opportunity.
How do you beat these things?
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You beat 'em with your mind. If you can't talk your way out of trouble, then you're in trouble. On the other hand, in here it's more like West World for you Nash.:)
Les
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hehe.
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Heyyy, Westworld was a serious business place. I loved the part where Yul Brenner let the lawyers have it. That is one of the best westerns ever made. Woo hoo, could you imagine running into something like that? You'd like it I'm sure.
Les
:cool:
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Western featuring Yul Brenner as a robotic cowboy? What's not to like? :)
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Freak all of that.
Go for the neck. If it jumps at you swat it with your hands or kick it aside. Be quick. When it's down jump on it and subdue it with your body weight but be sure to grasp your hands around its neck. Just under it's chin. I can't bit you then and you can do what you want with it.
Lift it up and slowly suffocated it. Slam it against a wall. Throw it at your neighbor who steals your newspaper. Find that old girlfriend that dumped you and make her take you back. The possibliblites are endless. It's all up to you.
You could keep it in your pocket for any troubling times that might come up in the future. Just imagine when someone takes advantage of you and you say, "Oh yeah? I've got a pitbull in my pocket!". Of course they will laugh at you at first, but when you pull it out of your pocket....boy, oh, boy will they change their minds.
Yeah, that's what I would do if a pitt butt attacked me.
But then again, I'm only scared of running out of alcohol.
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How do you beat these things?
As they come at you feed them an arm, body slam and fall on top of them on the follow through.
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lol, good stuff drunky! :D
But is that really true, Dirtbag?
Extend my arm, let the dog take it, and body slam it?
I sincerely really am looking for a good method here. I'm gonna have to use it, there is no doubt.
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No tis not. He will bite your arm and even if you can manage to lift your arm he will still have a bite of it. Meaning he will be hanging from your arm.
My experience is different from most. I've been in the Marines and it actually does change you.
When I first came out of boot camp I was the Numero Uno Most Bad Arsed Son Of A Bithc to Walk The Face Of The Freaking Earth.
Then I learned a little difference. I was the most bad arse person in my mind. That might seem trivial, and some may say neglible, but it's apt for the moment. I have confidence.
That's why the pretty, stupid, slutty girls, who don't have a brain can get by. The are confident that even though they are dumber trhan a box of rocks they will always have someone who wants them.
I'm fatter than I was in the Marines. I'm also more out of shape. But I will wager my weight (as large as it is) in gold that I also have more mental fortitude than your average disphit that is walking around thinking that he is a baddass. Much less some barnyard animal.
I habitually carry my (hold on pulling it out of my back pocket) Smith and Wesson SWAT First Millenium Run knife with me. It's the one with a nice little nub that you can *FLICK* the blade open. It's always with me unless I'm sleeping. Sometimes when I'm thinking about something deeply, I even take it out an slowly open it and close it. In a weird way ithe repititious action helps me think.
Next, I always carry a pen with me. It is also a weapon. Beast or human aside, I can weild this to my advantage.
Lastly is my keys. Keys are a little dicey. You have to have one that is long enough and you have to make sure you hold it right. A knife or a pen is easier because they are longer and more stable. But keys are almost always there for almost everybody.
It's not just a matter of sensing fear. It's rather a sense of being a victim.
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Yeah but how do I kill the dog?
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I do not think all pit bulls are bad, but they do require special handling cause they are agresive.
You had better make sure it is damn well trained, never gets out on its own and you never unleash it when there is any chance of running into people who do not know dogs.
That said, 99% of pit owners are ultra melons that do not take care of them, these are the no fear wearing lifted 4X4 (that never goes off road) driving, Dog anyone who looks at them urban tough guy, or mexican/black gangbangers.
They are very common in the bay area.
I would never want to own one, the two I had that had SOME pit in them were enough.
A friend of mine had her 13 year old rot killed in their fenced backyard by one. It jumped 2, 6 foot fences.
The owner being a typical pitt avacado, didnt even offer to cover the vet bill. So I offer to let them borrow some guns, luckly her hubby has them and she knows how to use the shotgun. The cops they talked to said if it ever gets loose again even if it is NOT on your propertie, call 911 and then shoot it.
I know this girl and I know she will too.
I was taking my lab out for her morning ****, before work last month, and we are on the way back to my condo... I notice a Pitbull between us and my door.
My lab is a sweatheart and has never been around agressive dogs, but i have and I can tell this pit things my dogs excitment is agression cause it is focused on us.
I try and calmly go around the other way and the pit rapidly closes, but not all the way to I turn and face it will trying to get my back gate open...(****ing contractor wired it shut!!) Cause I wanted to get my dog someplace safe so if it attacked I could take care of it without having to deal with two dogs. Plan foiled byt the damn gate not opening.
I have a 4 inch blade kershaw Ken onion knife on me.. thats it. So I decide to get that ready, and then yell at the dog. He backs off,( I new this was a risk, but its all I had) enough I can get to the door, by the time we are there the bastard is running back.
By the time I get to the gun and back to the door it is gone.
Owner must have found it. I am not sure who owns it. next week I packed when I took the dog out.
Would I shed a tear if the bread was banned? Well not because I like them, but because its just another step towards the government taking rights away.
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I feel like Miagi telling Daniel-son how to fight.
You kill the dog with your very being. This isn't a computer game.
I remember Donky Kong where we learned that if you do *this* at exactly *that* time you can get to the next level. Life usually is not like that.
The Samuri accepted death. That is why they were able to fight so well. They knew they would die at some time and did not fear death freeing their minds to focus on combat.
Nash, you must free your mind from such constraints. Remember, you have already faced and victoriously overcome what many of us either cannot understand or overcome ourselves. That in itself is powerfull.
In the most parlance of parlances I would offer this...if the dog attacks, do not think...REACT.
The dog is not trying to outsmart you, the dog is simply reacting. All you have to do is also react.
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Nash,
You go out in the woods with nothing? Not even a knife?
Hell even in the peoples republic of Cali the laws still alow you to have a gun on you concealed if you are hunting or fishing.
(well atleast as close as two years ago, the last time I checked the law)
I would not want to fight a dog with a knife or a club, my choice would be a shotgun, or my M1, but anything is better then your hands.
Even then you can still kill a dog with them, if you have to kill it by ripping its throat out with your teath!:D
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RPG
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Well geeze, no. I haven't even checked into the laws. Maybe I can carry a gun down there. Who knows?
I mean, I'm just trying to fish... is all. Didn't really occur to me.
What I need is tips. Poke it in the eyes, crunch it, strangle it or grab it by the legs and try to frisbee it tips. Not guns or yoda advice.
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I have seen it done Nash, it was a German shepard and did not survive the experience.
Yes you will get bit Drunky, but a bite on the arm is much better than a bite on an area such as the throat or groin.
BTW, I carry the same knife and a S&W 457. :aok
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Doh....every dog is different and even the same dog will react different on most occasions given different circrumstance.
As I said, this isn't a computer game. There is no compunctual right answer for every occasion.
Let out the beast inside. Have you ever seen The League of Extroidnary Gentlemen? Remember Mr. Hyde with the long arms?
On a lark (and a drunk one at that) I played that part to a particulalry agressive dog once. I had my doubts but I stuck to the character. I was agressive, dominating, and above all else I portrayed confidence. Truth be know, the dog bucked and avoided me. It was cool.
Stop asking for a step by step way to avoid being molested by a dog unless you want to start carrying a gun.
Confidence is key, you have to be able to look them in the eye and tell them, "I can kcuf you up despite all of your animal rage. In fact, I'm pretty pissed of about my girlfriend leaving me and I'm ready to tear someone's freaking head off. AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH."
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Originally posted by dirtbag
I have seen it done Nash, it was a German shepard and did not survive the experience.
Yes you will get bit Drunky, but a bite on the arm is much better than a bite on an area such as the throat or groin.
BTW, I carry the same knife and a S&W 457. :aok
The Kershaw Ken onions are nice arnt they, almost a switch blade but perfectly legal.
If Cali didnt suck ass, I would have a .45 on me at all times, either a sig 220 or some form of government model.
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Originally posted by dirtbag
Yes you will get bit Drunky, but a bite on the arm is much better than a bite on an area such as the throat or groin.
Unless I don't see the dog I will not get bit.
I will bend as the willow before it breaks, I will stand resolute as the mountain, or I will attack as fierce as the dragon.
Again, you cannot definitively plan for what is not know.
When your mind is empty all things, then all things are possible.
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Nash,
Let it get your arm, then get it on the ground with your weight on it and use your other arm on its throat. If you can't do that improvise. I was only half joking about biting it's throat. Go for its eyes, nose whatever, hell shove your fist down its throat, but fight don't run. Running will almost always make it worse.
Even a big stick is better then your hands.
I would never go fishing out in the middle of know wear without some kind of weapon, preferably a gun. Unless of course its a state park or local park then its ilegal. If you get out of the city it is just prudent, rattle snakes, mountain lions, bears etc. Hell even a park in the hayward hills has mountain lions.
Nature may need saving from man, but thats large scale. On the small scale many of natures criters are a much bigger threat to you then the other way around if you run into them on a bad day.
Fighting a pit would suck, they are all muscle.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Nash,
Let it get your arm, then get it on the ground with your weight on it and use your other arm on its throat. If you can't do that improvise.
This examplifies my point.
Why plan exactitudes when none are definitive or absolute?
When you throw a rock into the river, it simply goes around it.
I think the movie Fight Club had a good saying in it. It's when he's burning the top of his hand. Something about giving up everything is the only time we can be able to do anything.
My last post about this part of the topic.
If it makes you feel good to establish guidlines about how you will react to an animal attacking you, then good, it makes you feel better. This does not guarentee that you will be prepared.
'Let it get your arm'. That sounds like good advice. But what if the dog is a German Shepard and it has been trained to attack your legs??? What of your preperation then?
Instead of locking yourself into just one option, you should learn to be fluid, just like the river as it moves around the rock in it's path.
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You people better be careful.Walk in my yard,and you'll face the wrath of these ferocious dogs.
(http://www.chaanimalshelter.org/grads/Bailey-Tobey.jpg)
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Sox
Those will send terror racing through Nash's heart, you are so mean!
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Sox
Those will send terror racing through Nash's heart, you are so mean!
You best not smell like a pork chop. :D
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The old man from "Friday" said it best:
friday.wav (http://www.moviesoundscentral.com/sounds/dog.wav)
PG-13
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When I go out where sabetooths and mastiff's roam I carry a sack of kittens...
works every time.
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Damn, Drunky is a lot smarter than he looks. Color me impressed :)
culero
PS - Nash, if you don't think carrying a pistol is approriate, I'd recommend a baton as the next best option. Either requires some considerable training and practice to be proficient, but the baton is very effective against aggressors (including dogs) at close quarters if used properly.
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doesn't allowing citizens to be armed reduce crime?
shooting a charging dog is not an easy undertaking, the bullets often ricochet off their heads.
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You guys are forgetting one critical form of pitbull attack...the flying out of a car attack after taking a sharp corner!!!
This actually happened a month ago.
A friend of my sister and her boyfriend were driving along near the airport here and came to a fairly sharp turn. Coming from the opposite direction there appears a car travelling at very high speed...tinted windows, stereo blaring, and a pitbull with its head out of the window enjoying the breeze. The car attempts the turn without slowing down. The pitbull is launched out of the window by the force of the turn. The pitbull lands on the hood of the car driven by my sister's friend's boyfriend.
Injuries all 'round.
The pitbull has a broken back and is unlikely to live very long. The owner of the dog grabs it up and typically leaves the scene of the accident (probably dumps the dog in the ocean). They have the plate number of the car and call the police. The pitbull owner denies any responsibility including a denial that he was speeding. No charges are laid and the boyfriend of my sister's friend is saddled with a $3,000 bill from the repair shop.
Pitbull attacks come in a variety of ways and are generally the owner's fault. In this case very litterally.
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the only "charging" dog I ever shot was hit in the spine about half way back... no ricochet. The other two in the pack skidded to a halt at the gunshot and started to mill around giving me good full profile shot on the one and an 3/4 shot on the survivor who was running away and got hit at some spot I think was near the belly... he made it to the weeds and a ditch that ran away from me. This was with a lightly loaded 44 mag with 240 grain cast slugs at about 950 fps.
A large german shepard looking breed in Washington state I killed once with a round nosed lead 38 special was growling and sorta moving sideways to get to one side of me and offered about a 1/4 frontal shot... lower neck.. he flipped up bitiong at himself and I missed the next two rapid double action shots and he made it into the brush where he was found the next day.
cops kill dogs all the time with things like 38 specials and 9mm and shotguns with buckshot. One of the pits in this story was killed by an officer.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
best to simply be able to shoot em when you need to.
lazs
Laz,
What do you do if it is a zombie pit bull???? :p
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Originally posted by Yeager
Dogs are just like people
After watching a dozen or so of the Dog Whisperer episodes, I've started to notice a pattern. The most screwed up dogs are the ones that are treated like people.
They're dogs. Treat them like dogs.
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first off, the pitbull as a breed is extinct, the breeding stock began to dry up when dog fighting became illegal. some remnants may have managed to stay pure until the early '80's due to the underground, but the breed is gone for good now. the media is wrong when they keep identifying these dogs as pitbulls as they're in fact american staffordshire terriers or mongrels of.
the akc has never reconized pitbulls. the adba does, but i doubt you can find anyone with the papers containing the lineage to back it up. the only difference between a pit and a staff was the family history, one was breed from fighting stock the other from show stock.
i should have been more specific and stated "shooting a charging american staffordshire terrier" laz.
i wouldn't expect less from you, but i doubt the average citizen is as much a zealot when it comes to training. i've never seen a pack of dogs charge at 110% from any distance tho, they'll usually do the stalking wolf pack thingy, whichs makes for easy targets, if you see them coming from a far even more so. same goes for big dogs like sheperds, not hard to miss the chest and all if you drop down on one knee, they have small a head compared to their body size.
cops kill staffs, sure the usual mo is four or so cops with their weapons drawn and someone opens the door.
a surprise charge from a staff is a different story, they are small compact and have tremedous acceleration. a 60 lbs staff at full charge can knock a large man down with a body slam. it's not impossible to land a shot on grease lightning, but also it's not a simple walk in the park.
btw, i'm all for banning staffs, or classify them in the same vein as firearms, same penalities and screening.
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I disagree with your assertion that they are "extinct". I have met some folks who do in fact breed them. Nope they aren't your typical AKC breeder. They know they are breeding fighting dogs and sell them to the people who use them for fighting. They are bred in the US and tha majority of the buyers are from Mexico.
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Originally posted by Nash
LOL are you kidding me? You used Karate on a dog? That rules!
I tried to find a link but could not. I did read this story in the print editon of the paper and it is true. It is not some wild internet rumour.
About a week ago in the Sun (Toronto Edition) they had a picture of a man with some stiches on his forearm. He had been attacked by a female grizzly bear. He defended himself by using Karate and kicking the bear in the head. He looked like a real bad bellybutton type of guy
After he kicked the bear in the head it ran away.
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Originally posted by Cougar68
Sometimes that is true, but you can't ask a dog to go against what it was bred for. I can train my collies to not try and herd ducks into a circle, but I can't really cry foul if they slip up and do it.
An owner can make any dog turn mean. But some just have it in their blood.
Yeah, but banning and thinning out/threading out the not wanted dogs is more difficult but much more humane...
Ok yeah it dosn't sound humane, but yall get what I'm saying..
And for those of you who don't know me..
I have plenty of experience with animals, and humans..
No, maybe not as much of one as some of you, but do consider, I am entilted to my opinion, my thoughts and my suggestions.
Constructive criticism is always welcomed but don't just say no.
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Ok, I just got off work about an hour and 30mins ago, leave me alone! :lol
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mav... for zombie pits you simply turn em into twitchers first and then kill em at your leisure.
torque... charging is what one of the pack does while the others try to circle. Hitting the one running at me seemed to "distract" the other two.
The sheppard mix was growling and making feints and moving off to the side. easy shot. Worst come to worse... you could feed em your arm and then take an easy shot while they are trying to rip your arm off.
Back in the day when people shot their own dogs when they were injured or too old... I shot a few... maybe half a dozen for guys who couldn't bring themselves to do it. Shot em all with a 22 High Standard pistol or a Marlin 22 rifle... All one shot to the head... no ricoshets.
lazs
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Originally posted by Sandman
After watching a dozen or so of the Dog Whisperer episodes, I've started to notice a pattern. The most screwed up dogs are the ones that are treated like people.
They're dogs. Treat them like dogs.
Agreed !
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The cops had to fire so many shots to stop the lunging pit bull, the gunpowder set off an overhead smoke detector.
Still, the dog didn't die.
But she wasn't the toughest dog on the block. That title belongs to Maya, a 74-pound black Lab who took on India, the 120-pound pit bull who was mauling a sixth-grader on the Northwest Side.
Maya's big day began just before 9 a.m. on May 26 as India, the next-door neighbor's pit bull, was acting up, police and witnesses said.
Maya's owner, Dawn Montiel, 35, arrived home from a night shift and pulled her car into her driveway in the 4200 block of North Drake. The pit bull greeted her by jumping on top of the car's hood. She managed to make it inside her house, but neighborhood kids began pouring down the street en route to class at nearby Patrick Henry Elementary School.
Montiel and her 15-year-old son, Michael, yelled to the kids from their windows, warning that a pit bull was loose. Many hustled away as India barked, but one boy froze.
"We kept telling him to 'Go! Don't stop! Keep going!' " Montiel said. "But he just stood there."
The 12-year-old boy later told his principal he stopped to help the smaller kids. But it gave India a chance to pounce.
To distract the dog, the Montiels threw bread and dog treats out of a window, but the pit bull ignored the food, she said.
The pit bull first latched onto the boy's groin, and then bit into his ankle, police said. His 9-year-old sister, who was walking with him, began swatting at the dog with her book bag. The boy yelled for his sister to run away so she wouldn't get hurt. That's when Montiel and her son went for the door to help.
"In our minds, we were going to go out and save the boy," she said. "But our dog had other plans."
'He looked like a wolf'
As soon as their front door opened, Maya blew by, knocking the Montiels over "like bowling pins," she said. Montiel went down and Michael hit a wall.
Maya bounded down all eight stairs of her front porch in one leap, aimed for the pit bull and bit.
India let go of the boy, and as he fled with his sister, the two dogs began circling each other, Montiel said. Soon, India got the best of the smaller Maya and locked onto her neck. Then, in a move police called "bizarre," India dragged Maya up the Montiels' stairs and into the home, Montiel said.
They thrashed about in the living room, knocking over a coffee table, lamp and a chair before Michael separated them with a broomstick and rescued Maya, who suffered deep puncture wounds.
By then, Sgt. Lameka and Officer Froylan Serna, both of the Albany Park District, arrived. They found India cornered behind the chair and coffee table.
Soon, India began inching out.
"He looked like a wolf coming right at you," Lameka said. "The next thing you know, he came out lunging."
Said Serna: "We paused a half-second, then we shot."
Serna fired his 9mm Beretta three times, and Lameka shot her .38 Smith & Wesson revolver at least once and the dog fell to the floor. But after a few seconds, like a horror movie, the dog got up and lunged again. Lameka and Serna began firing again.
When they were done, they had shot nine bullets, hitting her seven times, they said.
The house fell strangely silent after the shooting ended, they said. But as the smoke wafted up, it set off the smoke detector.
It was the first time either officer had fired a weapon -- other than in training -- in nearly 30 combined years of service. "People asked why we didn't [use a stun gun]," Lameka said. "But it only would have aggravated him more."
Despite the bullet wounds -- including three to the head and one to the neck -- India was still alive. Animal Control workers carried her out on a stretcher. She was later euthanized.
Maya, meanwhile, is on the mend. But Montiel is worried about her injuries -- and how she'll pay for them. She said the pit bull's owner paid the initial $250 veterinarian bill, but another $600 bill is coming and Maya may need more surgery.
That's why teachers and workers at Patrick Henry took up a collection. A school counselor dropped off $400 to Montiel on Friday with a card that read: "Congratulations on having such a marvelous dog."
"People say this sounds like a movie, but I'm not kidding," Montiel said. "God only knows what would have happened if it weren't for Maya."
Her son was more blunt: "If it [weren't] for Maya, the kid would be dead," Michael said.
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seems that if it weren't for guns... a lot more people would be dead or injured in that case.
If it was in there.... I missed the part about the bullets bouncing off the dog. Maybe they should have used 22 rimfires... I never seen one bounce off a dogs head.
lazs
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Maybe they just needed a good ol' cricket bat. It works for zombies, why not dogs.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Maybe they should have used 22 rimfires... I never seen one bounce off a dogs head.
lazs
Don't know, never tried. I know they will bounce off a hogs head quite easily. I've seen guys culling heards with a .22 rimfire. You have to hit them right between the eyes to do it. Higher up, they just skip.
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Originally posted by Dago
When I was a young teen selling door to door in the summer, I had a German Shepard manage to open a screen door to get at me. He bit me on the leg, then ran away.
There is the differance between most dogs and a Pit Bull. The German Shepard bit me, let go, then ran. The Pit Bull would have kept attacking me until I was dead.
BIG DIFFERANCE.
People who say "it's just the owner" don't have a clue. They are ignorant of the fact that animals have an inbred nature, and though it might appear dormant, at some point it very well may surface.
My Golden Retriever had the typical disposition of a Golden Retriever. Friendly and gentle, I can't imagine it ever attacking, and only fighting in defense of it's life.
A Pit Bull is given to attacking, and even in defense mode, it will not stop until it kills.
No excuse for the continued breeding of the dog that has proven over and over to be a threat to life.
dago
I rented a room from a woman many years ago. She owned a female pitbull that was about 3 years old. I had a young German Shorthair (just under a year old). That pitbull tryed to fight over food one day and got the crap beat out of her by a much younger and smaller dog. This particular pitbull was the biggest baby you ever saw. The food incident was the only time I ever saw that pitbull even remotely aggressive. (She had very short hair and her skin was pink, so you could see the bruise around her left eye very clearly. She had a black eye from my hunting dog :rofl )
This particular pitbull actually made a good pet and would have tryed to lick a burglar to death.
Just because a dog is bred for hunting, or in the case of pitbulls for fighting doesnt necessarily mean it will do what it was bred for without further training. It is more likely to do the things it was bred for, however training can either reinforce those instincts or just the opposite can happen. Careful breeding of pitbulls can reduce and eventually eliminate the aggressive tendencies.
A well trained dog (no matter the breed) will sit instantly when commanded to do so and wont leave that spot until released by his owner/trainer. A well socialized dog (socialized with humans) will never bite either. Socializing a dog with humans ideally begins just days after birth. There is alot of truth to the statement that there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. Even the aggressive pitbulls I have seen in my life had a desire to please their owners. Any dog that posseses even a moderate desire to please can be trained. That training can be good, bad or non-existant, either of the last two can be a fatal mistake in the case of pitbulls.
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I have owned 6 Pit-Bulls in my 25 years of owning dogs, I own 2 now and when they die, I'll get more. I have also owned a couple shepards, and some mutts. I have been around all types of dogs and other animals my whole life. I.M.O. You can no more judge a dog by its breed than a man by his skin tone.
My experience has shown me that Bloodlines and Surroundings are what determines a dogs dispostition. I have bred several litters of Pits, I am still in contact with 5 of the pups from my *****. They are ALL great members of their respective families. They go camping, boating, for walks and lead normal dog lifes. They have NO IDEA they are viewed as savage killers by the the general (tellem what sells)media, and the sheep masses that beleive in full everything the media says, and ONLY what the media says.
B.T.W. None of the houses that my dogs live in have ever been burglarized, none of the kids in those homes has ever been abducted.
A_Clown
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I grew up with a German Sheppard which was next door and owned by a retired couple.
For years, he was the ideal dog. Well behaved and well-trained, he would stop on a dime when told to heel.
One day, I was in the backyard playing with him, when he went beserk and attacked me (I was just tossing a ball and he was fetching,..like we had done for years). The wife came outside and then the dog turned on her.
The husband came out with a hammer and beat the dog to death.
The wife died from her wounds. I almost died. She saved my life. This is a dog who was mild-mannered and well trained. He was not an attack dog, he was just a dog. He never acted up in the 7 years he lived.
I have a simple rule. If an animal has the ability to easily kill someone, then it should not be allowed in public. The risk is not worth it and there is not a thing that can be said to make the risk acceptable.
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Originally posted by Toad
Don't know, never tried. I know they will bounce off a hogs head quite easily. I've seen guys culling heards with a .22 rimfire. You have to hit them right between the eyes to do it. Higher up, they just skip.
When I was a kid, we lived in the country and had a border collie that disappeared for about a week. When it finally returned, it had a crease right down the middle on the top of its head. Looked about the size of a .22. Not sure, but our guess was that one of the farmers shot it.
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Skuzzy,
I had similar experience with my uncle's German Sheppard when I was about 6 years old. We were at his farm and we were all playing in the yard (he has 8 kids). I'd been around this dog alot and it never showed any aggressiveness.
On this day, something snapped, and it turned and attacked me. I don't know if its because I was the closest or what, but before I knew it, that dog had me on the ground and was using my head as a chew toy.
Anyway, my cousins got the dog off of me, and I headed for the house, but before I could get inside my Uncle came walking out with his shotgun and grabbed me to come with him. He called the dog over and shot him right there and then. Then he turned to me and said "That dog won't attack anyone again", and walked off.
I'll never forget that.
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My wife works with the Missouri Pitbull Rescue, Kansas Pitbull rescue, and the national group as well.
All dogs have traits of their breeding. My particular pitbull shows a lot of those qualities. Built like a brick watermelon house, turns on a dime, has an excessive amount of energy, dog aggressive, and loves people.
Most of the stories that my wife has read and talked with in the rescue groups are all the same. Different levels of being dog aggressive and the biggest lap dog other than a mastiff. I have to put Bishop, my pit, outside when people come to the house… otherwise they get tailed whacked and a lick down.
A lot of owning a pit, and actually any dog, is the owner’s responsibility to training it. Bishops was primarily obedience and interactions with people. One of the 25 different commands he knows is “Ouch!” followed by some loud whimpering and yelling. The response he’s been taught to this is to back off and lay down.
I’m not ignorant to think that pits aren’t powerful and need some attention but to classify a breed with one stroke is, well, ignorant.
It actually comes down to property rights as far as I’m concerned.
And for those of you who think the pit rescue groups aren’t helping, they put down any dogs they take in that show people aggression, will not adopt to a family that has the same sex animal as what they want, require appropriate fencing, and do house checks for all the people that end up wanting to adopt one.
Start enforcing laws against owners is what’s needed and stay away from my property otherwise I’ll go after yours. Wait, guns have already been mentioned. Let’s ban them. It’s obviously the guns fault and not the owner.
To address what Stringer wrote, when and if my dog now or one that I own in the future attacks a person. Then that dog is no longer welcome and will be put down. Already had the discussion with my wife.
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A_Clown
Just one question...
Do you like the No fear stickers or the fear this ones?:D
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bad story skuzzy..sorry that had to happen to you...i have dealed with dogs all my life and never got attacked.. not saying it cant happen...but only 15 to 20 people die a year from dog attacks...your 50 times more likely to get attacked and killed by another person...and 10 times more likely to die from choking on food..only 0.1 of any breed is likely to attack...that means 99.9 precent of all dogs never attack...they are way safer than people are to them selfs..its allmost racial profiling dogs..99.9% of all breeds never attack..i wish people could be as good..lol
the worst killing animal in the world is the mosquito..kills over 2 million people a year..and for 4 legged critters..deers kill more than dogs..they kill about 80 people a year in car accidents and cost millions in insurance claims..the tsetse fly, kills another 66,000 a year..i think dogs are rather low on the animal killing records a year
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sorry about the story skuzzy and glad that it wasn't worse.
When I was a kid my grandfather had a grey shepard mix that looked like a wolf.. we would play with it and it was allways friendly till one time it turned and attacked us. Bit me and my brother and my grandfather kicked it and it ran off. while my mom and grandma were cleaning the dog bites in the house I seen my grandfather grab his 45 auto and go back out.. we heard 3 or 4 shots and the dog howl somewhere inbetween.
He also said that the dog wouldn't ever bite anyone again.
I agree with skuzzy in that all large dogs are dangerous weapons.
If your dog bites someone then you should be charged with assault.. if it kills someone then you should be charged with either manslaughter or murder.
lazs
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
A_Clown
Just one question...
Do you like the No fear stickers or the fear this ones?:D
Been a while since I've seen one, but remember the one with the cat & the rooster? The Rooster is calling the cat "*****" and the cats is calling the Rooster "Chicken"? That's the one.
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LOL
I had that very same sticker on my second GTO.
I cut the no fear part off though.
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Skuzzy- and what a terrible story.
I have heard but not confirmed that the mother of the boy locked the dog and the boy in the basement of the house, while the female dog who was in heat, was locked in the house. Then she left! THIS would definatley shift MUCH of the blame. Can anyone confirm or deny?
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Nash I loved your story. :) Gave me a good laugh after balwing over another thread. :)