Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Oddball-CAF on June 04, 2005, 11:40:08 AM
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Gents,
Just wanted to say goodbye. I'm taking a sabbatical from Aces High for the next couple of months or so. In a nutshell, the current state of the Main Arena, with planesets ranging from 1940 to 1945 basically makes flying a lot of planes I enjoy a waste of time.
The La7 in particular has caused me so much aggravation that I'm cancelling my account. That these things were never perked, even to a small extent, is probably due to financial considerations on HTC's part. Something I can accept, since they've got to put food on the table. If this is "whining", I could care less, really.
I just can't see how AH is a simulation of WW2 with so many planes of the entire war period flying at once, and with the
sophmoric strategic system in place, which is another large beef of mine, I've lost my enthusiasm.
It's been a distinct pleasure to fly with and against most of you, and perhaps down the road, I shall have that opportunity once again. But for now, it's time for me to walk away.
My best regards to all,
Oddball
Cactus Air Force
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Odd
Take some time off bro, I feel the burnout too right now. I have to agree that La7's have strained my liking for the game a bit. I've tried to look at both sides of the fence regarding perking and not perking the La7 and I just don't see it. Sure, others will say that if you perk it the dora will just be the next La7. I don't see it that way.
Nothing unperked out accelerates the la7, top speed is only beaten by a well flown Tiffie, 3 cannon setup is devastating. Oh well.
Till we see you again Oddfaddah !
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"I just can't see how AH is a simulation of WW2 "
Therin lies your problem--the MA ISN'T a simulation of WW2 and was never meant to be.
J_A_B
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What's your online handle?
eskimo
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Try the Special Events, worked for me. :aok
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Hate to see ya go bud! I usually take summers off from AH. I have the past 2 years anyhow. This Spring I havent been home much, so I'll probably keep playing through summer.
I found a break every so often helps me alot.
As for the MA, I dont think anyone will ever create a game that keeps everyone happy. Where your frustrations lie, another's is a joy. I would like to see more strategic stuff, that really affects the game too. Flying with ya...you know Im not quite as hardcore to realism as you. That said..there has got to be hundreds of others who are just happy to run around the arena and killkillkill, realism be damned.
I too recommend investing your playtime in events, such as Friday Squad Ops (FSO). Its the best regular event the game offers in my opinion. Also the events that come along every once in awhile are usually alot of fun. Even the DA can be a blast. Get in there and hook up with a guy using the same plane, or one thats from the same time period. 68KO even has an air race event that sounds like a lot of fun too!
To me the MA has always been the place to hangout, waiting for the next event. I dont take it seriously. My blood pressure is high enough!
So when you come back..try some of these things out. If you need a break...take it! I'll be here to fly a buff run with ya when you do!
Have a nice summer bud!
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That's sad to hear, Odd.
Just today, I saw a smug enemy Tempest flying around at low alts. Disgusting as it is, I took up the La-7, ran it down, and then kilt the 70 point plane with my free La-7. Too bad the Temp only got 5 mins of WEP, while I had 10 mins.
Oh sure, the Temps good. Quad Hizookas.. 2k payload.. DT capability.. at least decent high alt performance..But I doubt thats an advantage over the La-7 worth 70 perks.
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Hate to se you go oddCAF.
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Dont give up. You just need to improve your ACM against them.
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Jeez, Odd. I can understand and respect burnout and all that, but letting the fact people fly Lalas get your goat? That's lame man.
Who are you and what have you done with the real Odd? :)
culero ~pokepoke~
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#$!@#!
:mad:
Happy trails, man..
Hope you reassess your anger and get back soon.
<.S>
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buddy, hope to see you soon.
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I know exactly how you feel about the mayhem arena
sorry to see you go odd
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One of the MA's simple pleasures is killing LA7s in my P38G.
Sorry to hear you are feeling burned out. But having been there, done that, you'll be back :)
Enjoy the time off
Dan/CorkyJr
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Just take a break i'm having one now also.
And i even have 4 weeks vacation im in the middle of a bored with gameplay thingy.
Right now im in my il2 period.
I downloaded a campain (kokoda) and played offline.
I can degrade even more that is creating missons for Il2(+AEP+PF).
After that lowest point i turn to the hyperlobby and in the end i miss the gameplay in the MA and the PG.
Ill be back :)
Never had problems with the La7 or any plane. Even in the early midwar PG.
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Sorry to see you go OddCAF, I'm sure (hope) you'll be back sometimes :)
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Originally posted by J_A_B
"I just can't see how AH is a simulation of WW2 "
Therin lies your problem--the MA ISN'T a simulation of WW2 and was never meant to be.J_A_B
It's Quake with a WW2 theme and the La7 is the BFG token hacker. :)
...-Gixer
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I understand Odd, but you stay in touch.... I get bored over here in Italy!! Not alot of chances to fly with the Squad. As far as the Lala goes....Perk it! All the stupid HO's people do with it is crazy and they are just cheap arse pilots! THe have no respect for anyone but themselves and no skill is involved in ramming some other plane.......cheap I tell ya!
I will have to get another game and try hooking up with some Rookies Raiders with yah.... keep your wings level and thy speed up! Ciao!
SKETCH
PS> Your buddy Scribble say "Hi Odd" :aok
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Oddball, now that I see and recall you handle (oddcaf) I looked up your stats in Tour 64. As I predicted you mostly fly heavy, faster B & Z planes (Fw 190D-9, P-47-D30, Bf 109G-10, P-47D-11 & Tempest). Of those, your K/D seems only to suffer in the Jugs and 109G-10. The problem, as you have pointed out, is that The El-Gay-Seven can out-accelerate, out-climb, out-run & out-turn most of these birds. Why not stick to the planes that you fly and do better in against the El-Gay and that have a turning advantage (Spit-V, LA-5, 109f-4)?
eskimo
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Hurry back Odd, I'll be droppin the lgays for ya until then. :D
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Hey Odd....
Don't stay away too long. I went through a short burnout period a few months ago myself...you'll get the bug again...at least I hope you do(your one of the few people that would give me a check six!) I know how you feel about the game play as of late. The LA should be perked.. The TA152...f4uc...and spit14 are, why not the LA? Put a small F4uc size perk on it....you want to up and HO with it...you'll pay a price.
Speaking of HO's, thats whats really been getting to me latley. They really need to try and do something about that. It's WAY to easy IMO. Helm and I were even talking about going to the TA and practicing them....lol. Just for the times when thats all the enmy wants to do( which seems to be alot )
Well.....enough rambling from me
Just take some time and I think (or hope )you'll get back in the saddle again and cover my prettythang.
See ya in the air
AX
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As CO of the Cactus Air Force, I am sad to see this. AH has lost a class act in the MA, one with as much wit as myself, and he will be missed.
I can outturn practically anything in an La7, I do agree they should be perked. However, as much as I enjoy turnfighting in it, I relish HO'ing other Lgay drivers and winning 95% of the time.
I concur with eskimo's post on the plane type's that Odd flies, to an extent. I've seen Odd pull of watermelon in a D-11 that is unbelieveable.
After 10 years Odd (going back to AW), you deserve a break. I'll miss you man!
ODM!
Karaya
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Dont give up. You just need to improve your ACM against them.
You couldn't be more wrong about it Sun.
Karaya
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Gotta love how some drop the La-7 Whine Bomb on their way out the door.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Gotta love how some drop the La-7 Whine Bomb on their way out the door.
No comment.
Karaya
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Gotta love how some drop the La-7 Whine Bomb on their way out the door.
LA-7 and all Commie planes are way overmodeled here (Source MUST be "Official" Kremlin Documentation), hence one reason I play more Pacific Fighters these days than AH. Very frustrating to say the least. The 3-canon Lgay with its poor copy of the FW engine saw VERY little combat, almost none! How many 2-Canon LALAs are flown in the MA? Unless it is a mistake, probably NONE.
I dont see any problem with what he is doing, he is voting with his wallet and leaving a reason. If my squadron wasn't here, I would be gone myself for a myriad of reasons, I just happen to like hanging out with them more than I dislike various problems with the game.
So best of luck to ya Oddball!
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Odd. I agree with the conensus. The LA-7 should be perked. I fly the LA-5 on occasion, but I always gravitate to the Yak 9U, and sometimes I get gravitated in it. I thoroughly enjoy shooting down LA's.
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LA-7 and all Commie planes are way overmodeled here (Source MUST be "Official" Kremlin Documentation), hence one reason I play more Pacific Fighters these days than AH. Very frustrating to say the least. The 3-canon Lgay with its poor copy of the FW engine saw VERY little combat, almost none! How many 2-Canon LALAs are flown in the MA? Unless it is a mistake, probably NONE.
I completely understand the frustration, but really, lets becareful about what we say. Our Lavochkins and Yakoblevs uses fairly reasonable performance numbers.
If you wanna see overmodelled planes, just pick out the La-7, or the Ki-84 from your Pacific Fighters plane roster.
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It must be time zone related................
I never see these hordes of La7's in euro time zones...........or is it only Bishops that fly La7's?
I enjoy the La7........ particularly when I'm one agin many.....I still get in too deep and still get hammered but its fun.
I agree the 3 cannon version could be perked..........
I use a Yak9U for mid alt stuff and the La7/5 for low level stuff and the Il2 for clearing out GV's.
Re Ho'ers etc I am just amazed that folk use the La7 for this when the Typhoon is available.
cya Oddball:)
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PS,
I just flew for an hour last night (intense hour) and didn't see one LALA. Check out the CT.
eskimo
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Odd, hurry back, it won't be the same without ya!
Cya Up!
Dawg
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Originally posted by Oddball-CAF
Gents,
Just wanted to say goodbye.
The La7 in particular has caused me so much aggravation that I'm cancelling my account. [/QUOTE
Stop being a *****, eveytime you kill a LA LA7, you garner extra AH2 mojo fun powers.
Can't kill them sitting at home whining there chief. Get back in and start throwing bullets. Just saying.
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Sad too see you leave bud, hope to see ya soon. <
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ODD, you and I have been flying for several years now, and I do not like you leaving. Let's say you and I get some Hogs and burn those la 7's down. Come back Odd
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Originally posted by Tilt
snip
Re Ho'ers etc I am just amazed that folk use the La7 for this when the Typhoon is available.
Really...or even the 110 :)
culero (not that I'd ever do that)
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Here we go again. Crying about the lala while we are talking about how fun it is to kill it. Lala is fast. Thats just about it. The cannons can't hurt you if you don't get in front of it. However, I am tired of the LA considered a dirty plane simply because it can run down the vulch tards in the 51s and D9s, so please perk it. Lets hear some whines about the D9 and the 51 for a while. Oh, wait, they are not Russian. Never mind.
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Odd,
Similiar frustrations on my part but just in regards to the MA in general.
I have found the following to be helpful for me.
1. Fly the DA.
2. Fly KOTH-- (did for the first time was a blast).
3. Seek out and fly Scenario Play etc... (I need to do this).
and finally come back when TOD is here
Semper Fly,
Balsy
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Oddball, now that I see and recall you handle (oddcaf) I looked up your stats in Tour 64. As I predicted you mostly fly heavy, faster B & Z planes (Fw 190D-9, P-47-D30, Bf 109G-10, P-47D-11 & Tempest). Of those, your K/D seems only to suffer in the Jugs and 109G-10. The problem, as you have pointed out, is that The El-Gay-Seven can out-accelerate, out-climb, out-run & out-turn most of these birds. Why not stick to the planes that you fly and do better in against the El-Gay and that have a turning advantage (Spit-V, LA-5, 109f-4)?
eskimo
if i may comment on this "suggestion"
personally i fly the D9 almost exclusively, and have somewhat learned how to stay safe form la7's, though it means i pass up fights with other planes, because an la7 is within 5k icon of me.
that is the problem here i think. i wouldn't be caught dead is a spit (except for my squad's "Dweeb week") im not one of those twisty deck fighters. i have zero interest in that style of fighting. OddCAF and i have flown together many times in the past, and he is similar in thought.
also, why should i change what i fly, and do what i don't like to do just because of the La7? or to put it this way, if the la7 in real life could for lack of a better word "School" every other plane it fought against, why is it not the best known, and most revered WWII plane in history? i have met people, even a relative who is a WWII buff (and does knwo quite a bit) and they have never heard of the la7.
as you said "is that The El-Gay-Seven can out-accelerate, out-climb, out-run & out-turn most of these birds." that is the general consensus. now ther eare people who don't know how to fly the la7 properly, and are beaten every day in the MA. but in even a decent pilot's hands it is in my opinion hands down the deadliest plane in the plane set. as someone else said, you can chase down tempests. does that not make it the fastest prop plane in the game?
i'll use the p38 fanatics statement about the la7:
what it can't out turn it can out run and out climb.
there is no doubt about that.
so back to the original comment. i really don't think the la7 was that "uber" in real life, but it is in here. with a plane that performs that well, and is used en-masse in the MA, as to almost disrupt gameplay, it should be perked.
oh well thats my opinion
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What gets me about the La7 is that, yes it may not be quite as good as the tempest, but it's infinitely cheaper.
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LOL ... the La-7 Whine Bomb has fully engulfed this thread. It's not about OddBall's departure but rather another thread that can be added to the incessant whining about the La-La.
i really don't think the la7 was that "uber" in real life, but it is in here. with a plane that performs that well, and is used en-masse in the MA, as to almost disrupt gameplay, it should be perked.
Come on 73 ... you "think" ... please provide some data that proves all of Pyro's research to be wrong.
I see more german iron (109s and 190s) than anything else when I fly in the MA, but I'll be damned if I am gonna ask for them to be perked or say that they disrupt gameplay.
I took up a G10 the other day and beat La-7s with ease ... I don't see the problem.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
...I took up a G10 the other day and beat La-7s with ease ... I don't see the problem.
you are a much much better pilot than me, and we all know that.
personally if i am dragging 1 la7 with no other con's in icon i can 1/2 of the time do a scissors / yoyo and get him off me enought to escape, but i will not beat him most of the time (and will die if it is a decent pilot).
i know in a straight up merge i will lose to the la7 75% of the time if i stay in the fight. i just am not that good.
i also know that i am not the worst pilot in the MA.
what does that mean? well all the talented virtual pilots say "it's the pilot on the plane" when you are not that good it IS the plane. i can kick some major butt in the la7 during dweeb week (by all measures of stats, which is the only way i know to measure), but i dont want to be a dweeb, so i don't fly it as my normal ride. in fact why should I?
well heck, i say have everyone medicore in the MA fly la7's and nothing else. then we'll see what people say.
again there's my opinion.
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Originally posted by JB73
if i may comment on this "suggestion"
personally i fly the D9 almost exclusively, and have somewhat learned how to stay safe form la7's, though it means i pass up fights with other planes, because an la7 is within 5k icon of me.
So the problem really is that the LA7 will run you down? Would you engage a SpitV if a 51, D9, or KI84 was 5K out?
also, why should i change what i fly, and do what i don't like to do just because of the La7? or to put it this way, if the la7 in real life could for lack of a better word "School" every other plane it fought against, why is it not the best known, and most revered WWII plane in history? i have met people, even a relative who is a WWII buff (and does knwo quite a bit) and they have never heard of the la7.
Why should the others change what they fly? This is not real life and the LA7 cannot school anything. As my friend Storch said, these are cartoon airplanes and we are pretending to be fighter pilots.
My point is, if the LA7 was gone tomorrow, the same crying would happen about a different plane. Most likelly the D9 and the 51 with some NIKI.
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Originally posted by dedalos
So the problem really is that the LA7 will run you down? Would you engage a SpitV if a 51, D9, or KI84 was 5K out?
yes i would. i can fight those planes, but i can not fight an la7 in any plane, not just the d9.
in a 190f i can get inside, but not catch to shoot the la7. in a g10 i can catch the la7 sometimes, but he will out turn me and then i can not get away. in a 190a5 i can not do anything against the la7. in the 205 i can sort of hang with the la7, at least to not get shot, but will not get him.
again as stated in each post:
oh well thats my opinion
again there's my opinion
maybe i am the only person who can not fight an la7 in any plane, but from the complaints about it for the last 3 years i doubt it.
lastly for a final time that is my opinion
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Originally posted by JB73
also, why should i change what i fly, and do what i don't like to do just because of the La7? or to put it this way, if the la7 in real life could for lack of a better word "School" every other plane it fought against, why is it not the best known, and most revered WWII plane in history? i have met people, even a relative who is a WWII buff (and does knwo quite a bit) and they have never heard of the la7.
The fact that it was as good as we have it modelled here is a matter of record.
The fact that it was not so "famous" in the West is a matter of who wrote that history. Even folk who post here refer to "commies" and basically decide that disqualifies all records.
It should be one of the best known and most revered planes of WWII. However it would have been useless as a bomber escort or even a medium or high alt bomber interceptor it would have been equally useless for long range maritime use or even in any area of the tropics where its wooden construction rotted due to fungicidal attack.
It was a plane of its place and its time and suited the war it had to fight perfectly. It was ideal at low alt interception of fast attack ac or low alt short range escort. A role that is a perfect fit in the MA.
Because its the fastest ac in the MA it can run away best which means it is the "safest" ride for them that want to play that way.
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The same whine about La-7... It becomes boring.
I flew La-7 the last half a year almost exclusively. This tour I decided to try something else, and now flying P38, Spit, Yak, etc.
My God, how it is boring! And problem is not with K/D, K/S or rank. In LA-7 I had tens of fights per hour, now I rarely have two. 90% of "fights" look like: merge, HO attempt, evasion, reverse, opponent dives and runs away, and I can't catch him. When I am in La-7 they didn't run. Or couldn't. They had to fight.
You, who are complaining about La-7, I have an advice for you: try it! You will be surprised how much more fun you will get for the same money.
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I agree with Tilt here. The way it is used in the MA has little to do with reality. If WW2 had been fought like the MA is, the LA7 would have been highly revered.
73, if we all know Slap is a better pilot than you, then we also know you are better than me, and frankly, I fear a Dora much more than a LA7. I fear a A5 more too. I might win 1 out of 10 against the Lala, but 0 against those others. The most fearsome plane to me is a Yak.
OddCaf is certainly correct about how the LA disrupts things, I myslef find it annoying, especially since when I use it I just die....alot, while others rack up impressive numbers.
I remember being somewhat at ease fighting the La7 using a G10 back in another life (er, AH1 that is) but cant seem to fly that thing anymore either.
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Originally posted by Vad
You, who are complaining about La-7, I have an advice for you: try it! You will be surprised how much more fun you will get for the same money.
I'd rather have the clap. If you can't find a fight, it ain't because you ain't flyin an elgay7. If flying that **** is the only way to have fun for my money, I'll spend my money elsewhere. The elgay7 is the king of the cherry pick, and NOTHING spends more time running than it does. The only thing close is a Tiffy or maybe a D9.
people who have trouble finding fights in anything but those planes define a fight as a cherry pick where they run if they come close to blowing all the advantage they had. There's nothing wrong with extending, mind you, but 5K out is more than extending.
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
OddCaf is certainly correct about how the LA disrupts things, I myslef find it annoying, especially since when I use it I just die....alot, while others rack up impressive numbers.
This is the EXACT point people make about perking it. It DISRUPTS the MA. Seems that was how the CHog got perked.
Personally, I don't care. The clowns who fly it in the most annoying way will simply find another plane to cherry pick, HO, and run in. But if it isn't perked, then the CHog shouldn't be either. Funny how the CHog gets perked because it has 4 20MM cannons, but there are plenty of other 4 cannon or 3 cannon planes that are not perked.
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Originally posted by Vad You will be surprised how much more fun you will get for the same money.
i think this sums up the general problem here.
it is not about "quake fun" for me, and if i ever were to feel i am playing aces high like that i will forever stop playing.
i play aces high to somewhat relive or re-enact WWII air combat, not to see how many planes i can kill at 200" before myself getting killed.
i dont think i am alone in the fact it is not a "game" in the aspect of duke nukem with the God mode hack or whatever.
it is a "game" like pac-man. those higher levels the ghosts are MUCH faster, and hard to get past. some people could get to the high levels of it, me i never got past maybe the 3rd level or something.
even in that it is a bad example. this is a multi-player sim / game. you are not fighting a math problem, you are fighting a person. if that person chooses to take the easy way out and play air quake, i can choose to do multiple things, one is quit, another is not fly near them.
i dont think anyone can really say that they would do worse if they flew an la7 instead of their normal ride, especially the good pilots, they would really be able to exploit it's strengths. that's where it gets frustrating, when a really good pilot flies an la7 then brags how good he is. it's like taking a mack truck to a demolition derby, then cheering yourself for wining so easily.
i personally say do what you want, but i have every right to say i think you are flying in a dweeby way. that's my right.
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(http://site2.bbri.com/images/other/wine.bmp)
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
people who have trouble finding fights in anything but those planes define a fight as a cherry pick where they run if they come close to blowing all the advantage they had. There's nothing wrong with extending, mind you, but 5K out is more than extending.
What ever. VAD is right. I spent over 2 hours in the MA last night looking for fights in KI84. Guess what happened. 190s and G10s and 51s diving to the deck 10 seconds after missing the HO or the cherry. Say what you will. The profesional cherrie pickers and vulchers use the D9 and the pickers the TYFFI or the 51. The problem is that the LALA does not allow them to land their kills so they want it perked.
By the way, I jumped in a lala last night and forced people to fight instead of running so yeah, it helps you have fun. And the two Temps with the 1 51 that were buzing the field for over 15 minutes all of a shaden went somewhere else. Except the 51, he could not run in time. They others must have been out of fuel.
Don;t blame the plane because some dweebs HO and run. They very quickly learn and move into the D9.
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This is basically why I stopped playing. Not the La-7s, they are just a symptom of it, but rather the "make a half assed pass and dive away in terror wimps" who don't want to fight.
I subscribe to this game to have air to air fights. Seems most do not however and that makes it a poor fit for me now.
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Originally posted by JB73
i personally say do what you want, but i have every right to say i think you are flying in a dweeby way. that's my right.
Of course, you have that right.
But take a look. There is a difference between those who are flying La-7 and those who are whining about La-7.
I don't tell you what you have to fly, I don't complain about your style of flying and I have no problem with other players. Moreover, if you feel uncomfortable with your normal ride because you are beaten by La-7s you can easily solve this prolem - take La-7. I don't insist, it is just advice. Do that if you want, or don't do that - I will be happy anyway. You have all choices.
But you are asking me to change my style of playing. You are asking HTC to perk my favorite ride. You are not happy with my plane of choice. You don't want to make changes on your side, you want to change me. You insult me and my way to play this game, you mock my favorite plane, you do everything you can to force me to play this game like you want.
Why? Do you have this right also?
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Originally posted by Vad
I don't tell you what you have to fly, I don't complain about your style of flying and I have no problem with other players. Moreover, if you feel uncomfortable with your normal ride because you are beaten by La-7s you can easily solve this prolem - take La-7. I don't insist, it is just advice. Do that if you want, or don't do that - I will be happy anyway. You have all choices.
You're not complaining because they're not the sissies who try to cherry pick and then run like screaming babies when they miss. You are the one doing that in a fighter that allows you to do it. It does not disallow fighting in it by anymeans, but as it can run the people who pick it tend to be those who do run at the slightest whiff of a fight.
It boggles my mind that people pay money monthly for a massively multiplayer combat game and then do all they can to avoid actual combat.
Cherry picking is not combat.
Like others I would quit before being denied the fun of using the great many WWII fighters that I am fond of that are not La-7s. I happen to really like Spitfires, Fw190As, Mosquitos, Ki-84s, P-38s and A6Ms. If only the La-7 is viable to have fun with in AH now that should tell you something is wrong. Very wrong.
However the La-7 is just a tool. The Fw190D, Tiffie, P-51s and Bf109G-10 can all be used in the same way. So in the end it is the players, not the planes, that are the problem.
Maybe a 1943 arena really is the way to fix it. That would limit the "one crappy pass and run" people to the P-51B, which lacks the firepower to be really effective in that role. Maybe people would actually learn to fight instead of run.
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I think HT should instantly lock a thread when the word LA7 is found in it. They are all the same. A bunch of people telling everyone how good they are cause they don;t fly it, and what dweebs the people that fly it are. :rolleyes:
I'll say it one more time. Dweeb, chery picker, vulch, running ride #1 is the D9. Most crying agains LA7? 190 and 51 drivers. I wonder why ;) If I see an LA7, I expect a fight cause atlist its driver thinks he has the better plane. If I see a MOSSI or 190, I either don't bother doing anything after the HO attempt or I have to give them my 6 in hoppes they come back to engage. The 190 that is cause the MOSSI whent on to the next HO run.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Cherry picking is not combat.
Sure is. You get picked because you are not watching your 6 nor do you have a wingman effectively watching your 6. Your flying in a multi-bandit environment and got picked by the wildcard bandit. Find a wingman and fly with him, cover each others 6. If I see you in that situation you can bet I'm gonna pick you too.
I don't chase the running La7s. I reposition and wait for their return.
Maybe a 1943 arena really is the way to fix it. That would limit the "one crappy pass and run" people to the P-51B, which lacks the firepower to be really effective in that role. Maybe people would actually learn to fight instead of run.
And St. Nick will bring you a new 'puter for X-mas.
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Originally posted by Karnak
You're not complaining because they're not the sissies who try to cherry pick and then run like screaming babies when they miss. You are the one doing that in a fighter that allows you to do it.
Ok, it is exactly what I am talking about.
I have no idea what are you flying, what kind of your style, etc. I don't wonder, actually. And I don't make any accusations, I don't make guess about your style. Do whatever you want and fly whatever you like.
I don't know if you have ever flown with me or against me. I don't think that you have even heard my call sign. And I am absolutely sure that even if you have you forgot it in few seconds, I am far from good pilot. But why do you think that you have right to talk about my style? Because you believe that a lot of La-7 pilots do that? In this case you are wrong. La-7 are mostly used in base defence. There is no sense to run in this case (why to take off on the capped base in this case at all?) , and you rarely have chance to cherrypick being on the deck and having horde of 190s with 3000+ alt.
But every defence sortie I see 190, p38 or p51, which come with alt , make suicide dive on field trying to kill ack, radar or plane on runway, and run away. I have no chance to catch them in Spit, but I have 50% chance to kill them in La-7. If you call this cherrypicking, ok, let it be so.
Anyway, you blame me for cherrypicking, screaming and running just because i am flying la-7, but you have no facts or evidences. Do I have to say who is the person who accuses somebody having no facts?
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Oddball, sounds like a slight case of burnout. Everyone goes thru it at least once. Hope to see you back when yer finished with the sabatical.
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i just want to pop in and make clear....
my usage of the word "you" is in the generic sense... you as in anyone who flies the la7, or you as in anyone who flies a spit.
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"if the la7 in real life could for lack of a better word "School" every other plane it fought against, why is it not the best known, and most revered WWII plane in history?"
The LA7 is built to perform best in short range, low altitude engagements.. That is exactly the kind of fighting that happened on the Eastern Front. It just so happens that the fighting in the MA resembles the Eastern Front more than anything else, and in that kind of environment the LA7 excells.
Try taking them up to 25-30K sometime (where much of the air war in the West was being fought) and see how well they hold up. The LA7 is a sitting duck up there. Heck, anything over 10K effectively neuters the LA7.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
"if the la7 in real life could for lack of a better word "School" every other plane it fought against, why is it not the best known, and most revered WWII plane in history?"
The LA7 is built to perform best in short range, low altitude engagements.. That is exactly the kind of fighting that happened on the Eastern Front. It just so happens that the fighting in the MA resembles the Eastern Front more than anything else, and in that kind of environment the LA7 excells.
Try taking them up to 25-30K sometime (where much of the air war in the West was being fought) and see how well they hold up. The LA7 is a sitting duck up there. Heck, anything over 10K effectively neuters the LA7.
J_A_B
In addition.
Russian fighters were equipped with oxigen masks, but russian veterans wrote that they had no chance to try it during the war. On occasion when they needed them they didn't work anyway.
Could you imagine P51 with broken oxigen equipments?
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Originally posted by JB73
i just want to pop in and make clear....
my usage of the word "you" is in the generic sense... you as in anyone who flies the la7, or you as in anyone who flies a spit.
Same.
Clifra,
I didn't get cherry picked very often because I watched for it. They'd try, and then run like sissies. That is the problem. They would run instead of fight. A straight path through with guns blazing and then running for your life when you miss is not fighting.
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Think about it -
Once fuel porkage was limited to 75%, you could almost guarentee the Lalas use would increase.
So all the guys who complained about 25% fuel and are now complaining about the Lala - no-one to blame but yourselves.
Porking fuel was the one way to limit them.
J_A_B - By 43/44 the air war in the West was mostly at low alts.
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But porking fuel had impact on other planes than the La7.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
J_A_B - By 43/44 the air war in the West was mostly at low alts.
This is very interesting. I guess the B-17's, B-24's, and Lancasters all flew below 15K, over all those German cities, in 1943 and the 1st half of 1944. That would certainly explain why both sides were working on high altitude performance.:rolleyes:
Only AFTER the invasion, 61 years ago today, did the air war become mostly a ground interdiction action. And even then, high altitude bombing was still going on.
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Once fuel porkage was limited to 75%, you could almost guarentee the Lalas use would increase. So all the guys who complained about 25% fuel and are now complaining about the Lala - no-one to blame but yourselves.
Geez Kev, we gotta have something to whine about ;)
Seriously, I dont think they need to perk the la7, I just meant I understood how one can become annoyed at their high usage. I dont mind fighting one, not one bit, just hate it when I roll into a home base, vulching lala runs away and I decide to heck with it and go to land.......and of course here he comes, putting holes in my plane as I am slow and low on approach or on the ground. (I am not very good at landings and have to take my time with them)
But, I flew it a lot when i first started, the fuel thing became annoying and I always was a 109 fan so started flying it instead. Tried most everything, couln't figure out how all those N1K's were so deadly when i couldn't do a thing in them......but lately I have come to appreciate the N1K a bit (still I prefer the KI84).
So, Odd is burned out by all the LA7's. Understandable. I would rather see other types used more often instead of the same few planes, but for guys like me, flying a less forgiving aircraft is not a very good option. Maybe a few of the highly skilled would be willing to do some "teaching" about how to win and survive in some of the less popular models.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
This is very interesting. I guess the B-17's, B-24's, and Lancasters all flew below 15K, over all those German cities, in 1943 and the 1st half of 1944. That would certainly explain why both sides were working on high altitude performance.:rolleyes:
Only AFTER the invasion, 61 years ago today, did the air war become mostly a ground interdiction action. And even then, high altitude bombing was still going on.
Mostly, and we were discussing dogfights as opposed to interceptors going after hi-alt bombers with their escorts.
There was a lot more going on than hi-alt bombing raids, jeez.
Thats explains why most aircraft from late 1943 onwards became more and more geared for lower alt fights. Not saying there wasn't hi-alt planes in development/in use or that it never happened. But it was greatly diminished from the earlier war years.
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You spoke of the air war in the West, in 1943 and 1944. There was little or no air to ground war in the Wesy until AFTER the June 6 invasion.
For the most part, fighter development continued to be about SPEED, and mostly at higher altitudes. Superchargers and their configuration was geared towards increasing power at high altitudes, as was propellor development.
There were of course exceptions, such as some Merlin equipped planes having their superchargers regeared to tune them for mid-low altitude efficiency.
However, throughout 1943, and the 1st half of 1944, development was geared towards increasing power, speed, and climbrate above 20-25K. In fact, even in the second half on 1944, the majority of the air to ground work, and the low altitude work, was handled by fighters designed for high altitude performance.
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Originally posted by Karnak
... However the La-7 is just a tool. ...
Correction: The LA7 isnt a tool, the LA7 pilots are the tools. :D
JB73 you seem to be among the few people in this thread who get the point Oddball made.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
You spoke of the air war in the West, in 1943 and 1944. There was little or no air to ground war in the Wesy until AFTER the June 6 invasion.
For the most part, fighter development continued to be about SPEED, and mostly at higher altitudes. Superchargers and their configuration was geared towards increasing power at high altitudes, as was propellor development.
There were of course exceptions, such as some Merlin equipped planes having their superchargers regeared to tune them for mid-low altitude efficiency.
However, throughout 1943, and the 1st half of 1944, development was geared towards increasing power, speed, and climbrate above 20-25K. In fact, even in the second half on 1944, the majority of the air to ground work, and the low altitude work, was handled by fighters designed for high altitude performance.
So I guess that explains why Supermarine turned out mostly L.F. Spit versions from 1943 onwards?
1943 LF IX
1943 LF XIII
1943 MK XII optimised for low alt interception of 190s.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
This is very interesting. I guess the B-17's, B-24's, and Lancasters all flew below 15K, over all those German cities, in 1943 and the 1st half of 1944. That would certainly explain why both sides were working on high altitude performance.:rolleyes:
Only AFTER the invasion, 61 years ago today, did the air war become mostly a ground interdiction action. And even then, high altitude bombing was still going on.
Why the brit created the 2nd TAF so ?
It started in summer 1943 and not after the invasion
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Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
Correction: The LA7 isnt a tool, the LA7 pilots are the tools. :D
JB73 you seem to be among the few people in this thread who get the point Oddball made.
back sir, i just feel how i feel lol
i can't wait until the last week of june when JB's dweeb week is, i'll show the true meaning of dweebery in an la7 and spit V >: ) muhahahahahahaha
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Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
Correction: The LA7 isnt a tool, the LA7 pilots are the tools. :D
JB73 you seem to be among the few people in this thread who get the point Oddball made.
Which goes something like this: Whaaaaaaaaaa, there is a faster plane than mine!!! Perk it or get rid of it. My plane should be the fastest. :D :lol :D :lol
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Virgil,
The Merlin 66 with it's lower altitude performance was a direct result of the tests of the high altitude Merlin 61 Spitfire F.Mk IX's tests against a captured Fw190A determining that the critical altitude on the Merlin 61 was almost 10,000ft too high. The most produced Spitfire Mk IX was the LF.Mk IX with the Merlin 66, though they also made about 1000 HF.Mk IXs with the high altitude Merlin 70. The definitive Merlin Spit, the Mk VIII, was mostly powered by Merlin 66s are well.
It really depended on the role the aircraft was being used for. High blown engines were more desireable for P-38s, P-47s, P-51s, B-17s, B-24s, Lancs, Halibags, B Mossies and NF Mossies. Spits were more often employed for fighter sweeps, small scale strikes and medium bomber escort into France and the low countries, for all of which it was desirable to have engines with a lower critical altitude.
On topic:
I had no problem fighting La-7s, they just seemed to have problems wanting to fight me. Fighting was never the issue.
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So aircraft development begins and ends with the Spitfire with regards to the air war on the Western Front. Okay, whatever you guys think.
I guess we should all fly Spitfires and LA7's. You folks have fun now.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
So aircraft development begins and ends with the Spitfire with regards to the air war on the Western Front. Okay, whatever you guys think.
Did I say that?
You and Kev took oposite standpoints. I did not. I took a case by case stand point.
You said all develpoment was going towards higher alts. Kev said towards lower. I said it depended on the role of the aircraft and listed off a bunch of types for which high was desired, then pointed out that in the case of some lower was desired.
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Originally posted by JB73
back sir, i just feel how i feel lol
i can't wait until the last week of june when JB's dweeb week is, i'll show the true meaning of dweebery in an la7 and spit V >: ) muhahahahahahaha
Hurry Back Odd....I understand your frustration.
JB...holler when your turn DWEEB in the V:rofl I'll wing with you for a few sorties if ya like. Since of sourse I am the DWEEB that flies em.:lol
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LOL will do, if you can hang with my uber l337ness ; )
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ok, finally.
Just tried Spits, V and IX. Yes, I understand your frustration now.
Only planes which DIDN'T run away from my Spits were La-7. All others - Yak, F4U, Dora, and P38 - tried to run because they didn't have 5 K alt advantage.
You have very strange logic. If we take as fact that only what La-7 can do is running what is the difference how many cannons it has or how good is their turn or climb performance? If they only run away you would never see their cannons!
The problem is not that they run. The problem is that they DON'T run. And you can't run away from them. La-7's ruin your childish games in "real life". "I have to accomplish my mission, I have to bring ordinance to the enemy field, my squad commander ordered me to take that field so I am going to imagine myself as a WW2 hero!". You don't want to fight - it is "quake game" for you! No, you want to "win the war", to "accomplish my childish mission", to "protect bombers..." - anything but not fight!
Actually, it is ok, I will kill you in La-7 anyway. BUT WHY DO YOU BLAME LA-7 FOR BEING RUNNING AWAY? I don't understand to whom do you lie? To me? - I am flying on the same arena as you do, and I am old enough to see obvious things.
You lie to yourself.
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The Flying Zoo have 28 out of 32 in our squad taking a "sabbatical".
Hope to see you again Odd.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
So aircraft development begins and ends with the Spitfire with regards to the air war on the Western Front. Okay, whatever you guys think.
I guess we should all fly Spitfires and LA7's. You folks have fun now.
Only used them as an example to show that the trend was towards aircraft that performed better at lower alts.
Of course there were still high alt aircraft needed to escort, and to intercept high flying buffs.
Even after D-Day once the fight was almost exclusively down in the dirt both sides still kicked out the odd high flyer.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
(http://site2.bbri.com/images/other/wine.bmp)
Hey jacka**, if you are gonna insult my squadmate with your pic. Correct the spelling on your avatar, you idiot!
Karaya
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Oddball, sounds like a slight case of burnout. Everyone goes thru it at least once. Hope to see you back when yer finished with the sabatical.
Ren, I appreciate a NON-ROOK not interested in flaming. I received an email today stated a combo of the La-7 and burnout.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Ren, I appreciate a NON-ROOK not interested in flaming. I received an email today stated a combo of the La-7 and burnout.
Karaya
oh so i'm chopped liver?
fine
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Originally posted by JB73
oh so i'm chopped liver?
fine
Diced liver? :p
Of course not.
Karaya
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wait, wait...where is it? o damn. ah, here it is...
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1109147222_lgay_banner.jpg)
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Here's to what it was.
Good times
A_Clown
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I think what most folks complain about is this. If the planes had catagorys, each with a value that showed what the climb rate, speed,lethality, manuever, durability,acceleration. the chart would look like this:
SpitV:
climb=3
speed=3
leth=4
manuver=5
durability=2
accel=5
P51D:
climb=3
speed=5
leth=3
manuver=3
durability=4
accel=3
F4UD:
climb=3
speed=4
leth=3
manuver=4
durability=5
accel=1
LA7:
climb=4
speed=5
leth=5
manuver=4
durability=5
accel=5
Where most planes have one or two high catagories, but countered by also having 2-3 bad catagories, the La7 seems to have all high catagories.
I know when I fly it..unless the base is vulched, its a guarranteed 4-5 kills. If ever there was a "Its the plane not the pilot" ride, the La7 is it. We all know it. We all fly it at times. We all feel a lil dirty afterward.
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I flew an La7 in my pajamas once?
(how it got in there? I'll never know..)
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Originally posted by JB73
oh so i'm chopped liver?
fine
yeah what he said!
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Originally posted by FiLtH
LA7:
climb=4
speed=5
leth=5
manuver=4
durability=5
accel=5
I take your general point Filth however I would not give the La7 a 5 for either Lethality or durability.
Although it could earn a 5 for low alt climb.
It is not as durable as the F4U or many others and 3 x B20 do only just make 2 x hispanos . (forgetting the 303's)
And I agree the La7 arena std should be the 2 x Shvak version.
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Originally posted by Vad
ok, finally.
Just tried Spits, V and IX. Yes, I understand your frustration now.
Only planes which DIDN'T run away from my Spits were La-7. All others - Yak, F4U, Dora, and P38 - tried to run because they didn't have 5 K alt advantage.
You have very strange logic. If we take as fact that only what La-7 can do is running what is the difference how many cannons it has or how good is their turn or climb performance? If they only run away you would never see their cannons!
The problem is not that they run. The problem is that they DON'T run. And you can't run away from them. La-7's ruin your childish games in "real life". "I have to accomplish my mission, I have to bring ordinance to the enemy field, my squad commander ordered me to take that field so I am going to imagine myself as a WW2 hero!". You don't want to fight - it is "quake game" for you! No, you want to "win the war", to "accomplish my childish mission", to "protect bombers..." - anything but not fight!
Actually, it is ok, I will kill you in La-7 anyway. BUT WHY DO YOU BLAME LA-7 FOR BEING RUNNING AWAY? I don't understand to whom do you lie? To me? - I am flying on the same arena as you do, and I am old enough to see obvious things.
You lie to yourself.
VAD, stop it man. You are making toooooo much sence. Thats exactly the problem with the LA7. It fights and kills the uber vulchers in their D9s. They want it removed so they can get their WTFGs after landing their 10 kills.
Example, I got over a base at 7K last night. It was already capped but all you could hear on VOX was the comments about the LA7s at 200ft of the deck. Never mind we had atlist 5K on them and people were vulching the bejesus out of them. They were a treat to the vulchers. Now, if we perk them, people will only up SpitVs to deffend and after we get a few runway kills we can safelly return home since the Spit will never catch a 190.
The crying about the LA7 is always the same. Its fast. People say that it runs, but what they really mean is that they can't run from it. And to be honest, where are all those lalas anyway? I don;t recall seeing that many of them. Maybe they run away?
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Don't have anything in particular against the Lag...but I can identify with Odd's complaint.
If I'm interpreting it correctly, he's actually referring to how ubiquitous it seems to be...and the prominent position it plays in the horde mentality.
Someone like Shane can make the Lag sing. When he makes it dance it's a thing of beauty. He's whacked me with it on numerous occasions. No big deal, really, because he'd do the same no matter what he's flying .
But great pilots flying the Lag isn't the problem. Nor are they the problem in any other plane. Getting jumped by a single Lag as you try to exit a fight and land your kills isn't the problem.
The problem is the four or five buddies tagging along who will not respect a one-one-one fight. Two moves is all the average pilot gets and then BANG, you're dead. The dweebishness of it is sickening.
Being a Southern Gentleman, I never engage in such activities myself.
Just yesterday, I flew off a carrier in a small attack against an enemy base. At first, the opposition was light. Shortly, however, about 20 enemy pilots upped from the base. Looked like four out of five of the enemy were flying Lags. A massive furball developed, which delighted some. Lags are one of the supreme furballing aircraft in the planeset, great for rushing in on an enemy aircraft that is already engaged.
While there are times that I can't resist a furball, for the most part, I avoid them like the plague. I'm not that good at that type of fight. Real-life pilots avoided entering a low-level furball because it wasn't conducive to a long life. In AH, the ability to re-up constantly in a very fast and maneuverable low-level aircraft allows the dweeb pilot and his buddies to overwhelm an enemy.
So, that appears to be the essence of Odd's complaint. It isn't the Lag itself that is the problem, it's the way it's being used.
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Just for you Odd,
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/284_1080784411_elgay7b.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/284_1080784379_elgay7a.jpg)
eskimo
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LOL eskimo. How did you get the picks of Shane's plane?
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So all those La-7s that I engaged in my Ki-84 that dove for the deck and ran like sissies after one or two manuvers, and never stopped running are a figment of my imagination? Riiiight.
All fast fighters do it because they attract the players who will do it. The fast fighters are merely enablers.
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>>You just need to improve your ACM against them.<<
Hmmm, for a guy who knows the proper use of acm, I don't think the good Faddah was talking about acm where the lala is concerned ;)
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>>LA-7 and all Commie planes are way overmodeled here (Source MUST be "Official" Kremlin Documentation), <<
I read a booklet several years ago, and posted some stats up in here about certain a/c in AH; the Lala was one of em. It seems (according to official accounts) there were several versions of most of the Russian a/c produced, some were busts, and some were effective for their intended purposes. I recall that the La7 model in it's final version (the version modeled in AH) was equipped with their heaviest and most powerful engine, nearer the end of WW2. There were some bugs with the initial version of it so, the original model of the La7 was decidedly underpowered when compared to the latter. The final version of it was fast, especially at low and mid-alts, and it compared to many of the late war a/c of warring countries, but completely outperformed most late war German planes (except the 262). I also recall that the final version of the la7 was only in use during the last 4 to 5 months of the war.
The late war La7 was the Russian version (if you will) of the tempest, or sptXX, or the P-47M etc. The tempest is perked, and the la7 is not. I don't know what the factors are that go into determining which planes get perked and which don't but, it seems there might be a slight discrepancy in the system.
It's so pat to write off a persons' complaints as whines; ones simply doesn't have to consider validity but, when so many complain over so long a period, perhaps there just might be something to it.
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To stop the La7 whinage I see only one solution : introduce the La9 in game
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>>please provide some data that proves all of Pyro's research to be wrong.<<
sigh, I will go back to my local library and locate the book I referred to below, and re-post the data, info, and overall "informed" information about the la7. I am under no illusion that will have any effect on your love for the lala but, it should provide you with some info that is accurate. Maybe even cause you to consider "not" referring to a person's complaint or point of view, as a whine :rolleyes:
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I was in the training arena sorting out a nose bounce problem in a Spit V. I got bounced by a LA-7. He was all over me. He would extend, climb and return. I was purely defensive. I hardly got a shot off.
I upped a Spit 14 and then I had parity with him. Didn't dominate by any means.
I don't know if this guy was and old hand or a noob. I suspect noob as I got no request or warning on the first firing pass.
I guess I never realized how out classed the spit was against the LA7 if the guy doesn't try to turn it.
Granted, I am a not a great pilot but I didn't think I was totally inept. But I sure felt that way against this LA-7.
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Originally posted by Don
>>please provide some data that proves all of Pyro's research to be wrong.<<
sigh, I will go back to my local library and locate the book I referred to below, and re-post the data, info, and overall "informed" information about the la7. I am under no illusion that will have any effect on your love for the lala but, it should provide you with some info that is accurate. Maybe even cause you to consider "not" referring to a person's complaint or point of view, as a whine :rolleyes:
sigh ... LOL ... such drama Don.
So, in essence, your saying that Pyro just pulled the variables that he uses on the La-7 right out of the air or dreamed them up. He keeps modeling the La-7 like it is so he can read this BBS and jump with glee at the 3 or 4 La-La whine threads are started per week. He REALLY wants to make people miserable ... thats his goal in life and this business.
Your booklet might have stats, but I will bet the ranch that Pyro also has plenty of reference material and stats on the La-7 and what he is modeling follows the data that he has.
My love for the La-7 ... LOL ... it's more along the lines that ... I do not fear the La-La, I kill it with extreme prejudice, and I do not come on here once a month and piss and moan at how uber it is. It's just another target as far as I am concerned.
The only problem that I see with the La-La is that most who do fly it don't have the sack to really fight in it. One pass ... HO ... miss ... on to the next HO.
I have to agree with Dedalos ... it does seem that those who do whine the loudest about the La-La really don't like it cause it hunts them down like a cheetah on its prey while they are trying to flee the scene.
I don't fly the La-La much anymore, but when I do, that is my goal ... run 'em down and then see what kind of fight they put up when FORCED to fight. Sadly tho, most take the 20mms from a dead 6 cause they have no clue what to do.
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Originally posted by Karnak
So all those La-7s that I engaged in my Ki-84 that dove for the deck and ran like sissies after one or two manuvers, and never stopped running are a figment of my imagination? Riiiight.
All fast fighters do it because they attract the players who will do it. The fast fighters are merely enablers.
Nop, not your imagination. I never said I did not see any. What you forgot to mention is how many 190s, 51s, TYFFIs, F4Us, and even P47s, dove to the deck after their first pass. Or is a P38 that goes into a clime untill he gets 5K above you before re engaging any different? However, people only open up threads about the LA7. Its the pilots not the planes that caus ethe behavior. No mater what we do, there is allways going to be a plane thats faster than the rest. As far as the LA7s manuverability, well, like most planes in the MA, it is more manuverable than a 190. Who ever does not like that should take up a fighter and not an interceptor.
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Ya Tilt..those are all just pulled from my butt :)
But you get the idea. It needs some type of limiter like the rest of the planes have. Just 2 cannon may help. Something to make atleast one of those catagories alot lower.
Dedalos..the 38 that climbs 5k above before re-engaging have the handicap(like most other planes) if he does get low and slow, there are planes that can catch it on the deck. The La can nose down a bit and be going over 300 before you can say boo. Its just too much plane in my book. But my book will never get published..so wtf :P
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2 pt perk on the lala and it would be a hanger queen......
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Ya Tilt..those are all just pulled from my butt :)
But you get the idea. It needs some type of limiter like the rest of the planes have. Just 2 cannon may help. Something to make atleast one of those catagories alot lower.
Dedalos..the 38 that climbs 5k above before re-engaging have the handicap(like most other planes) if he does get low and slow, there are planes that can catch it on the deck. The La can nose down a bit and be going over 300 before you can say boo. Its just too much plane in my book. But my book will never get published..so wtf :P
Yes, it is a good plane. But as I said before, there will always be one plane thats the best. If we keep perking what people fear as the best plane, we will end up with just the C202 being unperked.
The fact that it is good, does not mean it just dive to the deck. Thats just whaaaaa whaaaa whaaaa. The plane that the profesional vulch and run guys use is the D9. They are also the ones that post a lot in the LA7 threads.
I think think you might have missed my point about the 38 comment.
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Agreed, perking planes now wouldnt be good, as many have thousands of points to work from from back in AH1. The reason I think so many guys who use primarily fast planes like the D9 end up vulching is because 80% of the time most of the targets are low at one base or another. They spend 20 minutes looking for a high fight, and then decide to try for some low kills and end up getting whacked by the LA7. I dont know the answer for it..but I do understand their complaints. Yes many just want to vulch and in that case I have no pity, but alot of guys come down just for some action. Yes they could get a plane better suited for that...but then we have less of their preferred planes in the air..the same amount of LA7s, and now more spitvs.
Whats the bonus for killing an La7 now in say a D9? Maybe make an LA7 kill very high?
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Filth, I think we agree on most of the points. I will agree that some people will take a D9 and go look for a fight at high alt but not most. The D9 is not a pure fighter so I am guessing they are looking for what ever they blame the lala for (a fast cherry pick, vulch and run, or make a single pass at someone that does not know they are there).
A few months ago, I remember chasing a D9 for 2 sectors. Our base started flashing and hopping for an NOE, I took a LALA up to look for the goon. It turned out it was a high 190 that got as close as 5K and turned away. So, I chased him and two sectors latter while the lala was on fumes, he augered shooting at ord at another undefended base. I got the proxy and it was one of the guys crying about the lala in this thread. So, I put out on 200 the following: "Nice fight XX##". His responce was: "Who gives a chit. I got your ord". It was teh LA7 that forced him to a different field and to auger. He had no idea who the pilot was but he run to kill ord at an undiffended field that was not even his original target. Then he comes in here whining about the LA7 while he is doing what he acuses the LALA drivers of (run and not fight). Its people like him that made the original poster quit. Not an airplane.
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heres a nice film to all lala haters :)
common lala flyers (http://www.azhacker.com/images/pony-lalas.ahf )
Enjoy :)
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Originally posted by Don
[B
It seems (according to official accounts) there were several versions of most of the Russian a/c produced, some were busts, and some were effective for their intended purposes. I recall that the La7 model in it's final version (the version modeled in AH) was equipped with their heaviest and most powerful engine, nearer the end of WW2. There were some bugs with the initial version of it so, the original model of the La7 was decidedly underpowered when compared to the latter. The final version of it was fast, especially at low and mid-alts, and it compared to many of the late war a/c of warring countries, but completely outperformed most late war German planes (except the 262). I also recall that the final version of the la7 was only in use during the last 4 to 5 months of the war.
The late war La7 was the Russian version (if you will) of the tempest, or sptXX, or the P-47M etc. The tempest is perked, and the la7 is not. [/B]
I'm sorry but this is all just incorrect.........
Infact the la7 had the same engine as the La5FN. The whole point of the development was based upon the fact that no more power could be squeezed out of the Ash 82 FN and its intended successor the M71 (2200 hp to the Ash82's 1800hp) was totally unreliable. Albeit with a bigger better prop the La7 was an exersice in aerodynamics and structural engineering to reduce weight increase strength and reduce drag.
Power was never a problem.......the whole development was to reduce drag in all its forms.
It was always intended to have 3 cannon but the B20 (in the La7)was unreliable and only released for use at one La7 plant early 45. Hence the representative armament is the 2 x shvak 20mm cannon. IMO the 3 x b20 could be rightly perked as the Chog is now.
Performance of the La7 did subtly improve over time as the VVS constantly tested and refined the manufacturing system. Its from those tests we have data .........not "kremlin records"
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Interesting read here....Some of you never even said so much as a Cya to OddCaf. Seemed alright guy to me...But anyway.....
My 2 cents......
LA7's are more of a pest than a threat in my opinion. Shane and a few in them as was mentioned above are a threat. Joe Newbie isn't at all. He is a pest. He knows no ACM and has learned Ho after Ho and run away. Now after a while he learns and then becomes a menace. He knows enuff to turn better and semi avoids taking the ho shot though not everytime. He can hang in there pretty well but still has the run away move down.
Not every LA7 runs. Some guys , like Shane and others can make this thing a killing machine. They have the nact to do that in everything though. As was also mentioned above.
I fly a plane that can't retreat from anything. Won't out run any plane really. It can turn better than alot. It has good qualities. I haven't lost very many fights 1 on 1 with an LA7. I have been Cherry picked or had to dodge em while engaged so many times it's to numerous to count. But , when I see them in a 1vs1 it's nothing more than dodge a couple passes then they'll run away. MOST times...Not all. But I can say the same for about every plane I see or fly against. Thats the part of flying what I choose to fly that I have to accept.
LA7's are extremely good aircraft in the right hands. They are extremely annoying in others.
I don't like em , fly em , or anything. They are just another Red thing to shoot at. I won't someone who after running around the outskirts of a furball comes whizzing by at 500 mph's and gets a 1 hit wonder shot on me while I been yanking and banking with Hurris , Spits , Nik's and A6M's. All the while dodging the Typhie and 190 , and 51B , P47's and the 109G10's that are keeping thier alt like they should.
No problem with anyone who flies them neither. It IS what they choose to fly. I have been kiled by LA7's , but not manytimes in an even remotley 1 v 1 fight.
OffCaf has a valid point. You guys that seem to think he is just whinning , well that is your opinion. I respect that....But , at least give the guy a and hope you change your mind , instead of just beating at him with those 3 cannons.:lol
LA7's are nothing more than what people make them out to be. If you learn to just accept the fact that most will Ho and Run , a few fight , and even fewer really be GREAT then youll just keep being mad about nothing.;)
As I said...just my 2 cents.
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I got a film of blowing off half the wing of a la7, and have to go back and blow up the plane to get the kill.
They're like a roach that doesn't die. They fly back to base at 370 miles per hour with oil flying all over the place. Seems that would eventually cause engine problems.:rolleyes:
If you think of it as an arcade game, it don't make you quite as angry.
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Originally posted by BTW
:rolleyes:
If you think of it as an arcade game, it don't make you quite as angry.
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! Give that man a prize! Couldn't have summed it up better myself!
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Originally posted by BTW
I got a film of blowing off half the wing of a la7, and have to go back and blow up the plane to get the kill.
They're like a roach that doesn't die. They fly back to base at 370 miles per hour with oil flying all over the place. Seems that would eventually cause engine problems.:rolleyes:
If you think of it as an arcade game, it don't make you quite as angry.
So, if you cliped the wing of a Spit or 51, what do you think happens? There are probably more planes that can do that but I know I can do it in a Spit or 51. KI84 needs flaps down. How about the A6M that can fight you for about a minute after it becomes a torch? How about the fact that you can ditch on trees? What about the lazer guided manned 5" guns? Buff guns that can shread you from 1.5K out? Diving heavy bombers that some of the people crying in here are also practising? Those and a lot more futures of the game don't make you see it as an arcade? The fact that 'you' can't win against an LA7 does? Cause lets face it, if you could kill it, you would not be crying about it.
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Originally posted by dedalos
So, if you cliped the wing of a Spit or 51, what do you think happens? There are probably more planes that can do that but I know I can do it in a Spit or 51. KI84 needs flaps down. How about the A6M that can fight you for about a minute after it becomes a torch? How about the fact that you can ditch on trees? What about the lazer guided manned 5" guns? Buff guns that can shread you from 1.5K out? Diving heavy bombers that some of the people crying in here are also practising? Those and a lot more futures of the game don't make you see it as an arcade? The fact that 'you' can't win against an LA7 does? Cause lets face it, if you could kill it, you would not be crying about it.
Lazer is a good guy and I don't recall ever seeing him guiding 5".
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Originally posted by pellik
Lazer is a good guy and I don't recall ever seeing him guiding 5".
:lol :lol :lol :lol
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I like fighting la7's and think I'm ahead in the matchup spit vs la7 (not sure). I just hate *chasing* them. You're right, about the bombers full of sharp shooting snipers. I mostly ignore them, like the bouncy orange looking thing in Doom
I just found a lot of my frustration came from this thought "How in the world could he do that???" When you don't think of it as modeled reality, you don't ask that question. Its an internet game, anything can happen - it doesn't have to be realistic.
I just find it more fun on those terms, even the nuclear roach la7 :)
Last camp I was 8-4 against La7's
This camp I'm behind 1-3
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Originally posted by dedalos
So, if you cliped the wing of a Spit or 51, what do you think happens?.
I don't know about the P-51, but the Spitfire spins out of control and into the ground.
Mosquito can be held level as long as you keep the speed above 250-270mph.
In my experience the La-7 is the toughest single engined fighter in AH. I don't know why, but it usually seems to take more than even the F6F-5 or F4F-4.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I don't know about the P-51, but the Spitfire spins out of control and into the ground.
Mosquito can be held level as long as you keep the speed above 250-270mph.
In my experience the La-7 is the toughest single engined fighter in AH. I don't know why, but it usually seems to take more than even the F6F-5 or F4F-4.
I mean lose a wing tip. I don't think the LA lost a whole wing and it was still flying. Spiti with a missing wing tip will fly home as if nothing happened. I think I have taken a guy out after he thought I should be going down and flew in front of me. I was able to manouver to put the guns on him.
The LA is tough. No one said it was not. Take it out of the picture and then another plane will be the toughest. Should we take taht one out too? and the next? and the next?
Saying that the LA is too good is fine. Quiting a game or asking for the LA to be perked is silly. It really boils down to: I don;t like that plane cause it is better than mine and therefore, it should be limited.
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QUESTION:
Are you afraid more of a SpitV, a NIKI, a 51, or an LA7 on your six and why? I left 190s out since they will not engage until you are in a fight with one of the above :p
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dedalos,
Unless they changed the FM on the Spit radically since I last played a Spit missing a wingtip is only going down. It cannot fly on a wing and a half.
Nothing in AH will fly missing one entire wing so I never took your statement to be about anything other than the wingtip.
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Originally posted by dedalos
QUESTION:
Are you afraid more of a SpitV, a NIKI, a 51, or an LA7 on your six and why? I left 190s out since they will not engage until you are in a fight with one of the above :p
La-7, everytime. The Spit and N1K2 are too slow to keep with me when I extend (not run until D5.0 is between us) and the P-51 is usually beatable. If I am in a Ki-84 I don't fear any of them, though I know the La-7 has the best chance at running from me. If I am in a Mosquito only the La-7 out does me in all ways other than sheer firepower, though a well flown P-51, Tiffie, Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9 is just as deadly as a poorly flown La-7 to the Mosquito.
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Picked a fine thread to hijack guys.
just let the guy go in peace.
he doesnt like La7s. Big deal?
So either say Bye bye or stfu.
Sad to see you leave Odd. You'll be back tho.
Enjoy your vacation. ;)
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>>QUESTION:
Are you afraid more of a SpitV, a NIKI, a 51, or an LA7 on your six and why? I left 190s out since they will not engage until you are in a fight with one of the above <<
Your question is a little revealing. In short I'm afraid of none of them (believe it or not, I play for the turn and burn). The best chance for a fight is with the spit 5, the rest will just run (unless they're one of the good sticks) if they can't get an easy kill.
In order, the chances of a fight are spit 5, n1k1, 51 and la7 (IMHO)
And I don't care if La7's are tough - was just saying - they're like a nuclear roach.
And yes a spit 9 can fly with half a wing - dead slow (like 125) and a whole lot of rudder. It sure isn't going to fly home, but it can probably ditch. The La7 was flying home.
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I'll look for the film. I have finished fights with the wing tip missing and retuned home for landing. The only way the spit will go down is if it was in the vertical when the tip was gone. 51 will make it home but you have to come in fast on the landing.
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dedalos, off subject a sec, what was up in the DA last night? There used to be a free for all between A1 and A2. I saw a bunch of people all on the same team flying arround. What are the rules of engagement?
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The unperked La7 is the worst single aspect of the game no doubt in my mind, but I'm not quitting over it, I just hunt them with a passion :D
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Originally posted by BTW
dedalos, off subject a sec, what was up in the DA last night? There used to be a free for all between A1 and A2. I saw a bunch of people all on the same team flying arround. What are the rules of engagement?
I don't think anything changed. It's just that people go where the numbers are. If no one is in the A1 area when you log on you don't go there. Next time you are on just ask if anyone wants to go to A1. ROE as far as I know is to ask the other guy if he wants to fight. Check 6 and wait for a reply and cold guns on the merge.
FFA can be fun but most likely you will end up with a couple of kids buzing you in LA7s :p while you are fighting some one else. We have the MA for that. :lol
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Im with my dear, departed friend Odd
on this---if any ONE thing ever makes me quit this game, its the unsquealing believable performance of the Lala- a PLYwood plane that takes hits as well as most metal ones, DIVES at 550 and maintains control (EVER seen an La rip?), is the fastest level-flying, accelerating non-perk ride in this game, all with a big, fat, drag-causing radial engine. A lot of you guys in here who said lala's are watermelon and ya killem like taking candy from a baby, your stats re:lala's dont seem to back that up--a REALLY good pilot driving a Lala ought to be illegal--look at Coors this camp--he is showing what an La7 can do when not powered by a noob-- my skills are somewhat below average, and even I can kill watermelon with one of those things
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It's not the planes that ruin it for me. It's their bullets and cannon shells. THAT's what ruins it for me.
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(http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04/images/la7fs_1.jpg)
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Originally posted by dedalos
I'll look for the film. I have finished fights with the wing tip missing and retuned home for landing. The only way the spit will go down is if it was in the vertical when the tip was gone. 51 will make it home but you have to come in fast on the landing.
Yep, Spit will get home with half a wing missing. I have film of myself doing it a couple times. Also the 38 will make it the same way.
Image of my 38G in it's usual condition. I was single engine with the good engine on the wing that was missing much of it. I got it down. I had to come in fast but I made it.
Dan/CorkyJr
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1110917113_wing_and_prayer.jpg)
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Originally posted by Don
>>LA-7 and all Commie planes are way overmodeled here (Source MUST be "Official" Kremlin Documentation), <<
The source of La-7's data may come from...
TsAGI
NII-VVS
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btw check this out, i think this is where HTC got the La-7 data
La 7 No. 452132-76
During the period April 1945 La7 serial No.452132-76 underwent production test trials at the NII-VVS. Below is some of the data from those tests...
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Perform.html#La%207%20No.%20452132-76