Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rv6 on June 06, 2005, 01:55:05 PM
-
Hi All..
I'm sure that the answer to this lies on dozens of websites and elsewhere hereabouts.. But I'm hoping that one of you "in the know" can cut right to the chase (hm? good pun!), and tell me,,
What is the fastest propeller planes (in general order) in AH today?
You often see this asked by Noobs in the MA, and the answers are all "depending" on this, that, the other thing..
Air density,, fuel loading,, altitude,, color of joystick,, etc, etc, etc.
Given this "for instance".. (Like the Cub-Scout Pinewood Derby)..
We line up ALL PROPELLER PLANES, line abreast, over the ocean, all doing 100 kts, with 50% fuel load, all clean config. (no tanks, etc),, at 5,000 ft.. (y'all wit me so far?) :-)
On signal, they all hit max power WEP, nose straight down and level off at 500 ft agl..
What is the order of finish at the shorline, 3 miles ahead?
IE:
#1. Tempest
#2. La7
etc..
Thanks much in advance,
RV6 ~
-
fastest prop fighter of WWII...
Focke Wulf Ta-152H-1
Max speed at altitude: 470+ mph @ 47,000 feet+
-
Originally posted by 1K3
fastest prop fighter of WWII...
Focke Wulf Ta-152H-1
Max speed at altitude: 470+ mph @ 47,000 feet+
Originally posted by rv6
We line up ALL PROPELLER PLANES, line abreast, over the ocean, all doing 100 kts, with 50% fuel load, all clean config. (no tanks, etc),, at 5,000 ft.. (y'all wit me so far?) :-)
i would guess..
TEMPEST
LA-7
F4U-4
190D-9
TYPHOON
using whels' list http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57526
-
I'm not sure if that list is right anymore furby... although your searching skillz are still mad l33t. Seems that the G10 should be faster on the deck with wep than what that list says. I don't know, maybe I'm just full of it.... but just seems that way.
-
P-47M did 470mph @ 30k in stock factory condition. However 56th FG mechanics got more HP and speed out of them in-theatre and there were common reports of 500mph.
-
the tempest was the fastest propellor/piston engine powered fighter ever built. when the raf realised nothing would go faster, they moved on to develop jets properly.
if you'd really like, im going to raf hendon on thurs. they have one there, and i can get LOADS of info if anyone would like
-
wasn't the Do 335 faster than the tempest?
-
Fastest prop driven aircraft WWII era -
Me209 in 1939 got to 469mph.
Not broken until 1969.
http://www.simviation.com/fsdcbainme209.htm
Dunno where you got the TA-152 figures from 1K3.
-
according to the smithsonian:
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/dornier_do335.htm
The Do-335 was one of a small group of aircraft marking the pinnacle of international piston-engined development. It was the fastest production piston-engined fighter ever built, attaining 846 kilometers per hour (474 mph) in level flight
-
Originally posted by JB73
according to the smithsonian:
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/dornier_do335.htm
Well knowing the Smithsonians history for a few inaccuracies and without official recognition or independent sources, I'll still go with the Me209.
I know someones gonna ask about what inaccuracy -
The single plane that flew the most operational sorties during WW2, isn't the B26 they claim and have in Smithsonian, it was actually a Mossie. It survived the war and was lost just prior to an airshow. Wish I could still find the link :( .
Just checked Smithsonian website, they have amended their claim. Now states 'more that any other American bomber'. They must have got a nudge from someone, LOL.
-
Fastest propellor driven aircraft:
Tupolev Tu-95 'Bear'
A quick Google search put it's top speed at 575mph
I was told that UK Tornado's could not keep up with them without using afterburners, although I find that a bit hard to believe.
-
I'd have to go with the Bear as well...
-
oh i don't doubt the smithsonian can make a mistake, but google is your friend ; )
i read accounts of 447, 477, 474, and 472 mph LOL
personally i think it was the fastest, but thats my opinion ; )
-
Originally posted by hogenbor
Fastest propellor driven aircraft:
Tupolev Tu-95 'Bear'
A quick Google search put it's top speed at 575mph
I was told that UK Tornado's could not keep up with them without using afterburners, although I find that a bit hard to believe.
wasnt it a turbo prop and not piston?
-
Originally posted by Flyboy
wasnt it a turbo prop and not piston?
and from 1952, not WWII
-
"What is the fastest propeller planes (in general order) in AH today? "
"at 5,000 ft"
Tempest, with LA7 being second and probably the F4U-4 third
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by JB73
oh i don't doubt the smithsonian can make a mistake, but google is your friend ; )
i read accounts of 447, 477, 474, and 472 mph LOL
personally i think it was the fastest, but thats my opinion ; )
And perfectly entitled to it you are Sir.
Personally I think a Gloucester Gladiator with a tail wind of about 300+ mph would give it a run for its money :) .
-
Originally posted by Pooface
the tempest was the fastest propellor/piston engine powered fighter ever built. when the raf realised nothing would go faster, they moved on to develop jets properly.
if you'd really like, im going to raf hendon on thurs. they have one there, and i can get LOADS of info if anyone would like
That would be great Pooface, also could you take some pictures??? :D
(Temp geek and loving it)
-
Originally posted by 1K3
fastest prop fighter of WWII...
Focke Wulf Ta-152H-1
Max speed at altitude: 470+ mph @ 47,000 feet+
What the hell is going on at 47,000 feet?
-
Originally posted by stiehl
What the hell is going on at 47,000 feet?
Ask the Knights. :eek:
-
Originally posted by hogenbor
Fastest propellor driven aircraft:
Tupolev Tu-95 'Bear'
A quick Google search put it's top speed at 575mph
I was told that UK Tornado's could not keep up with them without using afterburners, although I find that a bit hard to believe.
More Kremlin data! :rolleyes: :rofl
-
(http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Seafury_RAN_WM587_Preserved_flying.jpg)
The Hawker Sea Fury Carrier borne fighter-bomber was the British Fleet Air Arm's last piston-engined fighter, developed during WWII it did not see service with the Fleet Air Arm until after the war. It was arguably the fastest piston powered aircraft ever manufactured.
It was a development from the Hawker Tempest, itself a development of the Hawker Typhoon. Originally, the Hawker Fury was designed by Sidney Camm in 1942 under F.2/43 specification, to provide the RAF with a lightweight replacement for the Tempest II.
On 23 June, 1942, Luftwaffe Pilot Oberleutnant Arnim Faber erroneously landed his Focke-Wulf Fw 190A-3 fighter at RAF Pembrey, apparently having mistaken this airfield for a Luftwaffe channel coast airfield. The British were thereby presented with a working example of the Fw 190 fighter, which had been giving the RAF an extremely difficult time. The Hawker Fury design was a direct result of the examination of Faber's Fw 190A-3. Examination of Faber's aircraft was largely responsible for the preparation of Specification F.6/42, which called for a new, high-performance fighter.
The design was modified in 1943 to meet a Royal Navy specification (N.7/43) for a carrier-based interceptor and named the Hawker Sea Fury. Hawker was designated to work on the land-based version, and responsibility for the naval conversion was assigned to Boulton-Paul Aircraft Ltd. of Wolverhampton.
Early in 1944, a revised naval specification, N.22/43, supplanted N.7/43. and in April 1944 contracts were placed for 200 F.2/43 planes for the RAF and 200 N.22/43 planes for the Fleet Air Arm. The first Sea Fury prototype, SR661, flew on 21 February, 1945. It was powered by a Centaurus XII engine driving a four-bladed propeller. This airplane had a deck arrester hook under the rudder, but retained fixed wings. The second Sea Fury prototype, SR666, was powered by a Centaurus XV driving a five-bladed propeller and was a fully navalized aircraft with folding wings. The prototype Sea Fury SR661 was subsequently tested for its suitability as a naval fighter, and in deck landing trials, at the A&AEE Boscombe Down in May 1945. Tests were still underway as the Japanese surrendered in August 1945.
With the end of the Second World War, the RAF cancelled all production contracts for the Fury, deciding to concentrate all of its future efforts on jet fighters. The Royal Navy reduced its order for Sea Furies to 100 aircraft, and canceled the Boulton-Paul contract in its entirety.
The first production aircraft - a Mark 10 which was a carrier-based version, with folding wings- did not make its initial flight until September 1946. Although originally intended to serve with both the RAF and FAA, the RAF order was cancelled at the end of the war. The first deck trials with Sea Fury TF898 began aboard HMS Victorious during the winter of 1946-47. The Mark 10 was approved for carrier operations in Spring 1947, and five Fleet Air Arm squadrons were then equipped with the Sea Fury. The Mark 10 was followed by the Mark 11 fighter-bomber - 615 of these were eventually delivered to the Navy. It became the Fleet Air Arm's principal single-seat fighter and remained so until the introduction of the Sea Hawk jet fighter in 1953.
The Sea Fury served throughout the Korean War, replacing the Seafire, which was not really built for carrier operations, being too fragile.
The Sea Fury was used by the FAA, Canada, Holland, Australia, and other countries including the Iraq Air Force. A total of 75 Sea Furies served with the Royal Canadian Navy(R.C.N.) between 1948 and 1956. All flew from the Aircraft Carrier HMCS Magnificent in 871 squadron.
Aircraft Type: Hawker Sea Fury
Mark: Prototype 1939-1945, postwar Mk X
Primary Role: Carrier borne fighter-bomber
First Flight: Prototypes - September 1944/February 1945
First production aircraft - a Mark 10 - did not make its initial flight until September 1946
Date operating with FAA squadrons: Entered Service: October 1945 for fully navalized version- 1950s
Manufacturer: Hawker was designated to work on the land-based
version, and responsibility for the naval conversion was assigned to Boulton-Paul Aircraft Ltd. of Wolverhampton.
Engine: One 2,480hp Bristol Centaurus 18 air-cooled radial engine
Wing Span: Length: Height: Wing Area: Wingspan 11.7m
Wing Area 26.01 sq m
Length 10.57m
Empty Weight: Max.Weight: Empty Weight: 4,191kg
Maximum Take Off Weight 5,670kg
Speed:
Ceiling:
Range: Speed:740kmh at 4,586m
Radius 1,127km without external fuel tanks
Service Ceiling 10,912m
Armament: Four 20mm cannon
2,000lb of bombs or twelve 3-inch rocket projectiles
Crew: 1
Squadrons: Prototype to A&AEE
Battle honours: None in 1939-1945, postwar involvement in Korea
(http://air.xuexue.net/bomber/gfx/tu95/tu95_2.jpg)
So far as fastest propeller aircraft overall, the Russian TU-95 and TU-142 varients win. Amazing when you consider each engine is rated at 15,000 Shaft HP driving contrarotating props - just shy of 575 kts at altitude.
Some notes on the 95 -
The Tu-95 is the world's only swept-wing turboprop ever to enter service. Its distinct engines, each with two counter-rotating propellers, also make the Bear the fastest propeller-driven airplane ever built. The original Tu-95 was designed to carry two nuclear bombs to targets in the continental US. Later versions carried cruise missiles for long-ange stand-off missions. The Bear has also been used for reconnaissance, especially by the Soviet/Russian Navy which used the aircraft to locate US aircraft carrier task forces. A specialized variant of the Bear is the Tu-142 dedicated to maritime surveillance and anti-submarine warfare. Over 300 Bears were built.
PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude: 575 mph (925 km/h) at 40,010 ft (12,205 m), Mach 0.87
at sea level: 405 mph (650 km/h), Mach 0.53
Initial Climb Rate unknown
Service Ceiling 39,370 ft (12,000 m)
29,850 ft (9,100 m) with max payload
Range 8,110 nm (15,000 km) with max fuel
The Tu-95 propellers reach transonic speeds (in the order of M1.05) when it flies at its maximum speed (M0.83) and when it flies at max. cruising speed above 11 000 metres (36 000 ft). The rest of the time they are subsonic despite their large diameter (5.6m , 18ft 4in). This is due to their very low constant rotational speed, which is around 800 rpm( "plus/minus one mile") 8:}D This can be observed in all Tu-95 in-flight pictures. In most of them even the de-icing boots can be clearly seen. In static conditions the tips reach about M0.74.
Those tips are in fact supersonic airfoils (1952/3 vintage. Remember this aircraft was shown in public for the first time in 1955), very thin and with a sharply diminishing chord that reduces to zero at the apex.
One interesting feature of these coaxial props is that they are mechanically independent. One can rotate them together in any direction or counter-rotate them in any direction too. All of this with the small fingers. Each propeller is driven by its own free-turbine (four stages each, if my memory does not betray me.) The counter-rotation is achieved gasodynamicaly by the flux turning the rotors in opposite directions.
They must be noisy at M1.0, but these a/c normally cruise at slow speeds (740 kmh for 12 000 km range) or a bit less for their 16 patrol flights. Under these circumstances intercepting pilots will not hear anything but their own engines I think. If the Tu-95 pilot had enough fuel to play around flying at high speeds to annoy the intercepting pilots, I cannot imagine his crew consenting easily to that. A noise loud enough to keep away helmet wearing intercepting pilots, flying in noisy cockpits, should be so intense that the poor people inside the bomber, wearing their flimsy leather helmets and sitting in their not too-well sound-proofed cubicles would simply go crazy.
I have spoken with several F-15, F-16 and F-106 pilots who have intercepted Bears. They all said that they could clearly hear the noise of the Tu's props over the sound of their own engine(s), even with their helmets on. the propeller blade itself need not be travelling at supersonic speed in order to generate shock waves. When the tip velocity approaches high subsonic Mach numbers, the local velocity over the blades becomes supersonic, and shockwaves are generated. Even supersonic airfoils have this characteristic behavior. The exact Mach number at which shockwaves will appear is dependent on airfoil and angle-of-attack.
The accounts of Bears out-accelerating western jet fighters are true, but only in the case of Tornado F.3 intercepts. This is more a measure of the Tornado's weaknesses at high altitude than the Bear's exceptional capabilities. The Tornado's high wing-loading and engines optimized for low altitude make it a slug in the high altitude, subsonic regime. This performance failing is well known throughout NATO, but Gulf War experiences and recent accounts of Bear intercepts have brought the deficiency to public light. The Bear is powerful, fast and efficient for a subsonic bomber, but most fighters will leave it in the dust without the mere flicker of an AB plume.
My 2 cents
Wolf
-
Try adding some guns and ammo to the 209. That speed was set with a stripped down 209 strictly for setting speed record. In my opinion, not a true Combat WWII plane.
-
Originally posted by Pooface
the tempest was the fastest propellor/piston engine powered fighter ever built. when the raf realised nothing would go faster, they moved on to develop jets properly.
if you'd really like, im going to raf hendon on thurs. they have one there, and i can get LOADS of info if anyone would like
(http://www.thepostcard.com/gofetch/rack/rc127.jpg)
-
After the war, the development of propellers did not cease. Even with the introduction of turbojet powered aircraft, propeller design evolved. The desire to develop a propeller that maintained its efficiency at transonic speeds led the Curtiss Propeller Division to design and test several different concepts. Herb Fisher was the logical choice to fly the test aircraft. Curtiss was able to obtain a P-47D-30-RE from the Air Corps. Fitted with one of several different “supersonic” propellers, Fisher undertook a long and risky flight test program that incorporated high Mach dives from high altitudes. Typically, Fisher would climb above 35,000 ft. He would then push over into a steep dive, allowing his airspeed to build beyond 560 mph (true airspeed). He would then execute a pullout at 18,000 ft. Several of these dives resulted in speeds of Mach .83. However, that was as fast as the P-47 could go.
Herb Fisher made over 150 dives in F-47D-RE (P-47) Thunderbolt testing experimental Curtiss supersonic propeller. Fisher would routinely exceed Mach .80, and edged up to Mach .83 on several occasions.
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Fisher.html
560mph? That's something.
Pappy
-
Originally posted by Pooface
the tempest was the fastest propellor/piston engine powered fighter ever built. when the raf realised nothing would go faster, they moved on to develop jets properly.
if you'd really like, im going to raf hendon on thurs. they have one there, and i can get LOADS of info if anyone would like
Actually the seafury was faster then the tempest....
-
Originally posted by 1K3
fastest prop fighter of WWII...
Focke Wulf Ta-152H-1
Max speed at altitude: 470+ mph @ 47,000 feet+
Both the P-51H and P-47M were faster, 487 mph and 475 mph respectively.
Of course, the fastest piston-engine aircraft ever is Rare Bear, a modified F8F-2 Bearcat. It exceeded 540 mph (at low level, mind you) during its record speed run a few years ago.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Fastest prop driven aircraft WWII era -
Me209 in 1939 got to 469mph.
Not broken until 1969.
http://www.simviation.com/fsdcbainme209.htm
Dunno where you got the TA-152 figures from 1K3.
You have to remember that the Me 209 was designed and built strictly for speed records.
Republic's XP-47J was almost 40 mph faster, and it was designed as a production aircraft. It was even armed.
The reason the record wasn't officially broken is that no one bothered to organize an officially sanctioned record run until 1969. Nonetheless, the entire exercise was moot. Civilian owned P-51s were already going faster than the Me 209 as early at 1946.
Back in 1991, Rare Bear averaged 482.9 mph during the unlimited race at Reno. That included turning the pylons.... Last year it won averaging 495 mph with power eased off because the Dago Red had cut a pylon and would be disqualified.
In 1989, Rare Bear set the world record at just over 528 mph average speed. Its maximum speed during the run was 541.6 mph.
My regards,
Widewing
-
I was going to mention the 47M/N along with the F8F but as I understood it, this was a question based on the AH planeset. :)
-
Originally posted by Wolfala
The Hawker Sea Fury Carrier borne fighter-bomber was the British Fleet Air Arm's last piston-engined fighter, developed during WWII it did not see service with the Fleet Air Arm until after the war. It was arguably the fastest piston powered aircraft ever manufactured.
Speed:740kmh at 4,586m
740 kmh at that altitude is about 460 mph. That's fast, but there were many of the same era that were faster. P-47N, P-47M, P-51H, P-82F, DH 103 Hornet, and the F4U-5 were all faster at their best altitudes. IIRC, both the Ta-152C and Ta-152H were faster as well. We should not overlook the Do 335 either. Both the Spiteful and Sea Fang were faster although built in tiny numbers. We might exclude the XP-47J and XP-72, both of which were more than 40 mph faster tahn the Sea Fury. But understand that the XP-47 was viable for production. It was replaced by the XP-72, which in turn was shelved for the XP-84 Thunderjet.
You could argue that the Sea Fury was at the pinnacle of piston-engine fighters, but it would have a lot of very serious competition.
My regards,
Widewing
-
well he wanted ah planes.. I'd say go to htc web site click on help all planes speeds for all alts listed.
for the rest of you not one of you got it right Mig 3 was fastest in ww2 but had bad flight copntrols and was usally just for scouting
http://www.tgplanes.com/query.asp?action=quicklist
-
In Aces High, maximum speeds are relative to altitude. Above 20k the P-51s are faster than the Tempest. At 30k, the Jugs are faster too. Don't forget the Bf 109G-10, which flirts with 450 mph at its best altitude. Even the P-51D can reach 441 mph at 25,000 feet.
Yeah, the Tempest is a monster on the deck, but at 20k it accelerates like a bus; easily beaten by many fighters in service by 1943, including the P-38G, Spitfire Mk.IX and the Bf 109G-6. Even the La-7 accelerates faster at 20,000 feet.
There are two fighters that I prefer to the Tempest; these are the Spitfire Mk.XIV (444 mph at 28.5k) and the F4U-4 (446 mph at 25k). By the way, those are actual measured speeds for AH2.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Haven't tried it, but our Spit IX SHOULD be faster than most at 43K, exceptions are just some late monsters.
Most of the others shouldn't even get up there :D
-
Guys,
Is the TA-152 faster than a P-51 at over 30k in AH? Never taken one up that high but I'm curious as to the best High Alt Escort Plane in AH for over 30k? Thanks in advance for your post!
Higgins
-
Higgins,
The fastest plane in AH2 barring jets and rockets, is indeed the Ta152H-1 at over 30k. IIRC, about 465~470mph TAS at 35k.
The 2nd fastest plane, and the fastest non-perked plane, is the Bf109G-10, which in reality is by every means a K-4, recording 452mph at 22k. Actual testings by players have proven the AH G-10 to be about 448mph TAS, little bit slower than the official charts.
The 3rd fastest plane is the Spit14, which also dies about 448mph TAS at IIRC 25k or so.
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Fastest prop driven aircraft WWII era -
Me209 in 1939 got to 469mph.
Not broken until 1969.
http://www.simviation.com/fsdcbainme209.htm
Dunno where you got the TA-152 figures from 1K3.
Ta-152 figures are the same everywhere, are some of you THAT lazy to even look, or crack a book?
Karaya
-
Originally posted by stiehl
What the hell is going on at 47,000 feet?
Kurt Tank built the Ta-152 for one reason and one reason only, shooting down B-29's if they were to be introduced to the ETO.
Karaya
-
... he also said level off at 500ft so I guess that will exclude the 109g10.
-
Originally posted by Ratnick
... he also said level off at 500ft so I guess that will exclude the 109g10.
He said (rv6) 5,000ft.
Karaya
-
I thought the Do 335 was the fastest prop plane?
-
So what I've heard so far is this:
Tempest
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1118178102_tempest.jpg)
La-7
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1118178028_la-7.jpg)
F4U-4
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1118177784_f4u-4.jpg)
FW-190D-9
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1118177684_fw-190d-9.jpg)
Typhoon
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1118177533_typhoon.jpg)
-
"On signal, they all hit max power WEP, nose straight down and level off at 500 ft agl.."
he said 500ft there. but then again I was making a joke.
-
LOL does that tiffy pilot look to be bending over in the cockpit to "gain some extra speed" ala kids going downhull on a bike???? :)