Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: maoiwowie on June 06, 2005, 03:11:30 PM
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Ok...i am in my first week of the free trial and have quickly realized that i am nothing more than cannon fodder ( im sure everyone had a Delightful time shooting this clay pigeon down ); although i did manage to get some kills however ugly they were. I have come to understand the basics of trading PE for KE and vice versa but have a difficult time applying this rule to ACM. Having started out with just a mouse, then to a stick, and now the pedals, i am ready; however i need to learn how to better use my rudders and throttle during ACM, when to lead turn, when to lag turn, the list goes on...
Regards,
Dennis
Dlite
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Your best bet would be to go to the training arena instead of the Main Arena. There is usually somebody in there that can help. If there is not a trainer hang around and somebody will usually show up .
They can help you with setup, ACM, and about anything else you may have problems with or questions abount.
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Yup, TA is the place to be. Also, even if it's explained to you well, it'll still just take time and practice(and getting killed) over and over before you start to notice anything. Main thing is to remember EVERYONE went through it, and not to get discouraged.
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what they said.
I flew against you last night. You did ok.
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Hey Dlite
Think you have to remember is you are flying against people who have been doing this for 4 - 15 years.
Learning curve is high and tight, but your on the right path. Split your time between the MA & the TA. When you do fly in main, film your sorties, so you can play them back later & see your mistakes.
Keep hooking up with any trainer you can in the TA, also some of the guys who hang in there are just as good (or better) than the trainers.
Hang in there, this is going to take some time to master. But it is SO worth it.
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Yes...im not sure i would call it flying for me yet. The conversation with my girlfriend last night went like this:
GF: Hey is that a new game you are playing? are you having fun?
Dlite: (grunt) Yes, this is fun
GF: Are you flying a plane?
Dlite: Silence...
GF: Well are you winning?
Dlite: (Turns angrily) Do you know what a clay pidgeon is!?!
Ok i will be in training everyday...and when i do play MA...i will be in my NIKI as a bishop. Look forward to the merge!
Cheers,
Dennis
Dlite
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Also recommend take 5-10 minutes and practice your gunnery offline against the drones before going into the MA.
Nothing more frustrating than to get into a position to shoot and realize that you arn't hitting anything. This will help you as you try and extend your shooting range beyond 200.
It's not the same as the MA with people trying to evade, but at least you will get used to the site picture for the plane you are flying.
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convergence settings help to ...
I recomend startin with the setting were you fire the most from .
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Originally posted by maoiwowie
Yes...im not sure i would call it flying for me yet. The conversation with my girlfriend last night went like this:
GF: Hey is that a new game you are playing? are you having fun?
Dlite: (grunt) Yes, this is fun
GF: Are you flying a plane?
Dlite: Silence...
GF: Well are you winning?
Dlite: (Turns angrily) Do you know what a clay pidgeon is!?!
Ok i will be in training everyday...and when i do play MA...i will be in my NIKI as a bishop. Look forward to the merge!
Cheers,
Dennis
Dlite
LOL...I spit Dr. Pepper when I read that. Your learning Dlite. Thats the first step. I spent litterally 1 month in the MA and didn't kill one plane with a shot. I got a few proxy kills...but never "Downed" a plane. That was the first month I flew in here. I was a Hot Shot in the previous sim I had played. Got to AH and found that I was TRULY a clay pidgeon as well.
Don't let it get ya down. Just hang in there...Train...practice in the TA and DA and jump in.....Dieing in this game is nothing. It just aloows you a NEW Shiney Plane.:lol
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maoiwowie
When it comes to deploying ACMs with Energy in mind.
*Vertical manouver stores Energy
For example Immelman. Half loop with roll.
The Immelman stores energy as you reverse 180 degrees. You still burn some energy as you in fact pull of a manouver but the horizontal movement stores energy for you.
*All manouvers burn energy
For example Flat turn.
Reversing 180 degrees through a flat turn will burn energy but doesnt store any away.
Meaning 2 planes that have equal energy one does an Immelman and one a flat turn then the one who did an Immelman will always have more E left.
Another example of a Energy saving ACM is the High YoYo. Once again you have vertical movement and you store energy. The fact that you move vertically will result in you slowing down quite a lont and hence your able to pull a very tight turn at the top.
Just examples but as said the training arena is your place to learn.
Tex
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I want to apologize to some of my fellow Bishops for not calling the "6" or sounding a heads up; as this has led to at least a few angry comrades...i know you guys have been watching my back as i am thinking about naming my first born "Check6". I will try to be more alert, but really most of the time im just trying to stay off the hard deck.
The energy, Kinetic and Potential concepts i do get...i just dont know when to go vertical when to flat turn. How to not get in the habit of reacting to your opponent as opposed to having your opponent react to you. How to guage your opponents E state. After the horizontal merge...what am i going to do next?
Cheers,
Dennis
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i start my turn ussually around 600 to 400 on the merge . alot depends on the plane im fighting against too .
part of the secret of gaining the Adv. at the merge is to get up into the vertical loop 1st and keeping an eye on them so you can manuver for the kill . if the oppenent goes for the ho shot they ussually wont get the adv and have to run.
also Dont worrie about the ck 6 calls .. it comes as ur situation awareness improves
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Yes, let them come up yer 6 until they're about 600 before you reverse on them. It surprises the heck outa them :)
Well, you've seen me do it enough times now so you should be able to let them in to around 1k before going after them.
Just make sure you watch them commit before you commit. If they don't level off and extend until they get up some gumption and actually come to fight ya.
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Originally posted by maoiwowie
Ok...i am in my first week of the free trial and have quickly realized that i am nothing more than cannon fodder ( im sure everyone had a Delightful time shooting this clay pigeon down ); although i did manage to get some kills however ugly they were. I have come to understand the basics of trading PE for KE and vice versa but have a difficult time applying this rule to ACM. Having started out with just a mouse, then to a stick, and now the pedals, i am ready; however i need to learn how to better use my rudders and throttle during ACM, when to lead turn, when to lag turn, the list goes on...
Regards,
Dennis
Dlite
There are some *good* pilots in here. I've been flyin since the '70s, including some time in an A6 and have had a Navy pilot tell me, and this is a quote, "You're a pretty good stick".
And my K/D is 1/lost count. I'm on week two and get shot down constantly.
The one thing that nobody mentions is that you get shot down more when fighting alone. Tag teaming and sticking with the furball yields better results. An assist is better than the parachute.
ACM. Some "rookie" things to avoid.
Do not climb to your target. If they are higher, you are starting with a penalty. Listening to the stall horn and bullets hitting your crate at the same time is not fun.
There is no shame in extending. If you're losing, push that stick forward, and dive away. Don't wait until you're all out of energy, either.
Defensive BFM in this game doesn't work nearly as well as it does in real life. Most anyone can follow you through all those split S's, yo yos, Immelmans, scissors, barrel rolls (totally inefective) and breaks. (Plus a few things that don't have a name.) Extending is your best bet for escape. Air shows just don't work.
There are really three stages to an engagement:
1. Get behind the target with speed and low angle-off.
2. Close range.
3. Keep range.
Step 3 is critical. Don't overshoot, don't let them get away. And wait until you're in close and have the situation under control before you open fire, because once the firing starts, the air show will begin.
Boomers skip step 3 and take a snapshot. If you're aim is good, that is is an option to explore.
Out of all this, the most important thing, in my mind, is working with others. Your chances of survival go up when there are green icons around you.
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A very good thing to do, that I never did and am paying for it, is get into a squad. Fly with it for a while before joining. See who would take on the task of training you if you joined. Make sure they are a competent pilot.
Once you join and learn most of the basics and are getting kills now and again, pick someone to buddy up with; let them know you want to fly as a wingman. Not constantly, but whenever you're going out for some serious fighting, ie fast base capture. Use the .wingman GameID command to highlight them and learn the basics of wingman fighting. Train with that person until both of you are able to protect each other.
Last week, I'm sad to say, 4 of the guys in my squad (including me) couldn't beat a pair of winging FW190D-9s because we were so disorganized. They made about 7 kills each before returning home.
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Avoiding HO.
Its VERY easy to avoid the HO. Anytime you go for a merge (front aspect) with the enemy make sure to be positioned under his nose. If you are under his nose he has to push his nose down to get the shot of on you. As you know a quick forward push on the stick forces a redout. Aiming in a redout is virtually impossible. So he will never hit you.
Some of pilots do adjust to this by rolling over to a inverted position so they can pull back on the stick to get the shot. This will expose you to a good snapshot if you dont adjust to the new situiation. The situation in it self is very advantageus.
You are gonna go for your immelman and the enemy cant follow you high, since he is inverted. You will always be in a advantage from here on if you survive the first merge.
What he can do is...
a) Fly straight through.
You will have a position advantage but no real gun solution anytime soon.
b) Split S.
You will have high position on him and he is likely to pull his Split S into a loop. A angle fight is on and you do have the initial advantage. Just make sure to not go straight at him as you loop your immelman. There will be a merge in this situation where you are comming from up high and he down low. Once again position your self under his nose to prevent HO shot.
Alternativly as you see him pull his Split S dont flip your immelman over and keep going high. You can rope him here.
c) He will flat turn. You will waste him as you have high position on his six. You should have gun solution in less then 20 seconds.
Now back to the initial problem. How do you avoid the snapshot where he is inverted in the merge.
There are basicly three ways.
First if you spot it early you can just pull up and get above him. This will once again put you "under his nose" forcing him to push stick forward for shot. This is dangerous though if you do it too late as you will pass across his nose.
Second if you dont spot it early enough pass under him and make the shot as hard as possible for him. Apply rudder to make your plane drift diagonally under him makes his shot harder. He is aiming infront of your straight flight path. This will get you out of that flight path.
Third you can also do a barrell roll. But do it only so you get positioned on his 3 or 9 o'clock then roll out of it so you can do a immelman.
I usually do the 2nd option.
IF he doesnt roll over then 3 things can happen as you pull your immelman.
a) he continues straight ahead, se above same situaiton.
b) he flat turns, dead in 20 sec, see above.
c) he pulls a immelman. This is when the fun starts. To win this situation you really have to have been under him. Not only to avoid the HO but to get vertical separation, get the inside track on the vertical manouvers.
At the top of the immelman there will be another merge. Both of you come out of the immelman and are facing eachother. Same deal applies as above. He will either roll out of his immel or stay inverted. Act just as in any merge. Adjust so you dont get HOed, get under his nose. Then pull another vertical manouver. Either you have juice left for another immelman or you dont and if you dont you do not ever flat turn. If you cant pull a immelman pull as much vertical into your turn as you can.
Who ever pulls his manouvers highest will force the other to stall or fall off. Once the enemy stalls or falls off you can just swing around and get on his six.
But dont count on getting on his six after he falls off. You have to work to get on his six before he falls of or he will get on yours. There will be tons of angles to find to work your way into gun solution on his six.
Constantly watch your enemy and use your roll to work your way onto his six through the vertical manouvers.
You really need to fly a few hours in the DA to practice this.
If you ever see me online just whisper me and I will take you to the DA and show you how its done.
Tex
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Thanks for the invite...and thanks for the advice on the merge. Assuming same plane at equal E states, follwing each other in a looping stalemate. Whats the move? Try to save as much E and hope to out last your opponent? Drop a flap or slow down to get a better turning angle and hope you dont miss?
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Assuming same planes and equal energy state I would say the one who finds the best angles will win.
I know it aint a straight answer to your question but Id say its what will separate the two. Simply because if one pilot can find the angles and the other cant the first will get on the seconds six before the energy state becomes critical.
If both work the angles equaly well they will basicly consume the same ammount of E and then it will be about who makes the first mistake. In a very close duel one common mistake is shooting at the wrong time. Shooting in the wrong time can be extreamly lethal as you mostlikely pull your stick a little bit too much and loose position. In a close fight any pull on the stick for a shot will make you loose position and bleed that little bit of E that will decide the fight.
If you view films of the really good pilots dueling the never ever ever move their nose while when they shoot. They sometimes do take a chance and fire a shot that is a very low percentage shot but they never ever pull the stick doing so. Better to miss and not loose position and E.
Also in your question you say drop flaps and turn. I assume you mean manouver and not actually turn as flat turn.
You should always use your flaps accordingly to your planes ability and need.
How flaps are used and when very much depends on the plane you are in. But for example in the F6F and the P47 Im more or less constantly working the flaps when in combat.
But as said it will come down to who finds the angles. Finding angles is something else that one really just needs to practice over and over.
Personally I would divide the pilots in the MA into the following cathegories.
*The totall dweeb, goes for HO shots, doesnt know how to avoid them and always does a flat turn after merge.
*Avg pilot, still HOes but does go vertical after merge, no clue about how to find angles.
*Above avg pilot, avoids HO more then takes it, goes vertical after merge, can find angles, cant use flaps and rudder correctly.
*Good piliot, avoids HOs, goes vertical after merge, can find angles, can use flaps and rudder and knows his ACMs pretty well.
*Ace pilot fantastic in all aspects.
Basicly learn how to merge and do vertical opening manouver manouver and you will be able to beat 50% of the MA, learn to work angles and you will beat 75%, learn to use flaps and rudder in your ACMs and you will beat 90% of the MA. That level of skill can be reached relativly quickly. Beating the top 10%, that will take years.
Tex
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Assuming same planes and equal energy state I would say the one who finds the best angles will win.
I know it aint a straight answer to your question but Id say its what will separate the two. Simply because if one pilot can find the angles and the other cant the first will get on the seconds six before the energy state becomes critical.
If both work the angles equaly well they will basicly consume the same ammount of E and then it will be about who makes the first mistake. In a very close duel one common mistake is shooting at the wrong time. Shooting in the wrong time can be extreamly lethal as you mostlikely pull your stick a little bit too much and loose position. In a close fight any pull on the stick for a shot will make you loose position and bleed that little bit of E that will decide the fight.
If you view films of the really good pilots dueling the never ever ever move their nose while when they shoot. They sometimes do take a chance and fire a shot that is a very low percentage shot but they never ever pull the stick doing so. Better to miss and not loose position and E.
Also in your question you say drop flaps and turn. I assume you mean manouver and not actually turn as flat turn.
You should always use your flaps accordingly to your planes ability and need.
How flaps are used and when very much depends on the plane you are in. But for example in the F6F and the P47 Im more or less constantly working the flaps when in combat.
But as said it will come down to who finds the angles. Finding angles is something else that one really just needs to practice over and over.
Personally I would divide the pilots in the MA into the following cathegories.
*The totall dweeb, goes for HO shots, doesnt know how to avoid them and always does a flat turn after merge.
*Avg pilot, still HOes but does go vertical after merge, no clue about how to find angles.
*Above avg pilot, avoids HO more then takes it, goes vertical after merge, can find angles, cant use flaps and rudder correctly.
*Good piliot, avoids HOs, goes vertical after merge, can find angles, can use flaps and rudder and knows his ACMs pretty well.
*Ace pilot fantastic in all aspects.
Basicly learn how to merge and do vertical opening manouver manouver and you will be able to beat 50% of the MA, learn to work angles and you will beat 75%, learn to use flaps and rudder in your ACMs and you will beat 90% of the MA. That level of skill can be reached relativly quickly. Beating the top 10%, that will take years.
Tex
Very nicely put Tex. maoiwowie, try to read and get an understanding for what he just stated. I can't think of a way to explain it any better. Basically, it all comes down to practice. You have to have patience and accept you'll die for a long time before you even get to the point where you consider yourself avg. Like I said earlier, it'll be frustrating but just remember EVERYONE went through it.
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some of us are Still going thru it !!
Just have fun, and film your fights. Check out the films and see if ya can find where ya went wrong. If ya can't, post it here and these guys will let ya know :)