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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StarOfAfrica2 on June 08, 2005, 01:47:07 PM

Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on June 08, 2005, 01:47:07 PM
I've tried to find an online link to this story, but apparently most newspapers nowadays require you to pay money to see stuff they post on the internet.  Even though it was in the local paper, they didnt bother to add it to the online sections because its an AP story.  Go figure

Apparently this guy shows up at the US/Canada border in Maine, carrying a sword, hatchet, a knife, brass knuckles, and a chain saw that seemed to be stained with dry blood.  The border police confiscated his weapons, fingerprinted him, and let him cross.  This was April 25.  The next day, they find the guy's neighbor in New Brunswick, and the neighbor's wife, dead.  The guy had been decapitated.  The day after that, police in Massachusettes find the guy wandering on the side of the road and pick him up, his clothes still covered with blood stains.  They put him in jail, and he's awaiting extradition.  

Now the Border police say the guy is a naturalized US citizen, and had no warrants, so they had no legal right to stop him.  Comon.  A guy comes walking down the road armed like he's going to a Highlander vs Jason showdown, covered with blood, and you cant find a legal reason to detain him?  So you take away his toys, and let him wander around the countryside free for two days.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: ChickenHawk on June 08, 2005, 01:54:56 PM
We can always count on the border guards.

Meanwhile, Cat Stevens is enemy number one.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 08, 2005, 01:57:22 PM
Crazy freak with a bloody chain saw and home made sword enter US via Canada.   (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=533&e=2&u=/ap/20050607/ap_on_re_us/chain_saw_border)


ack-ack
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on June 08, 2005, 02:47:07 PM
Ty.  I knew it had to be out there on the internet somewhere.

Now really, if you saw this guy, with those weapons, wanting to come into the country, would you let him in???


(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050607/capt.ny11906071829.chain_saw_border_ny119.jpg)
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 08, 2005, 02:49:23 PM
Hmmm...how did they get a picture of Nuke?



ack-ack
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Toad on June 08, 2005, 03:02:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
 
Now really, if you saw this guy, with those weapons, wanting to come into the country, would you let him in???


More importantly would you be sued if you didn't? Probably.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on June 08, 2005, 04:37:59 PM
I suppose it doesnt matter in the long run, for this particular case.  Nothing bad came of letting him roam around for two days.  I would just think, with the concerns we have about our borders, that there would be enough suspicion there to hold the guy at least for a day while some investigation was done.  At the very least, local or state authorities could have been alerted to the situation, so someone could keep an eye on the guy.  

Hell I dont know, maybe they just thought since he was Canadian, he couldnt possibly be a threat?  

j/k

Just kinda strikes me as something wrong there.  But then, its true, I wasnt there, so how am I to know what happened?
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Toad on June 08, 2005, 05:11:33 PM
Think how many come across our borders totally unobserved by any US governmental authority at all.

Just kinda strikes me as something wrong there.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Vulcan on June 08, 2005, 05:41:56 PM
I want to know...

Quote
Despres hitchhiked to the border crossing.


Who the hell was dumb enough to pick up a hitchhiker who looked like that carrying a homemade sword, a hatchet, a knife, brass knuckles and a chain saw stained with what appeared to be blood?

DON'T YOU PEOPLE WATCH HORROR MOVIES IN CANADUH?
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: storch on June 08, 2005, 06:58:20 PM
how did a messkin get into canada and make his way south?
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Torque on June 08, 2005, 07:02:46 PM
pee-wee herman on roids or what.

damn frenchy
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Gunslinger on June 08, 2005, 07:17:02 PM
looks like it's time to ban chainsaws and any other decapitating device  ;)
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Squire on June 08, 2005, 07:23:50 PM
I guess some people deal with duel citizenship better than others.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Maverick on June 08, 2005, 08:08:40 PM
This is so ironic given Canadian Customs obsession with making sure you can't enter their country if you have something you can defend yourself with.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Squire on June 08, 2005, 09:20:16 PM
Would she have gotten across? hmmm...

http://astro.temple.edu/~mriver06/thurman.jpg
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Ripper29 on June 08, 2005, 09:56:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
This is so ironic given Canadian Customs obsession with making sure you can't enter their country if you have something you can defend yourself with.


I am not sure I undestand..he is an American Citizen entering the US and dealing with the US Border Guard..The Canadian border guys had no contact with him

What is the ironic part....
Title: Re: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: eskimo2 on June 08, 2005, 10:06:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Apparently this guy shows up at the US/Canada border in Maine, carrying a sword, hatchet, a knife, brass knuckles, and a chain saw that seemed to be stained with dry blood.  


It sounds like they just assumed that he was a regular Canadian; they're all like that, right?

eskimo
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on June 08, 2005, 10:17:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripper29
I am not sure I undestand..he is an American Citizen entering the US and dealing with the US Border Guard..The Canadian border guys had no contact with him

What is the ironic part....


He's a NATURALIZED US citizen.  Meaning he was born Canadian, and lived in Canada.  Not sure what it has to do with anything, either way.  Just thought I'd make the point.

I think the point was (and the ironic part) was that if this man had been trying to enter Canada with so much as a belt knife, he probably would have been detained, and yet here's a man coming OUT of Canada who looks like he's going to a horror movie convention.  He's openly armed with several weapons, has bloodstained clothes and a chainsaw with dried blood on it.  I can see the irony in that with no trouble.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Masherbrum on June 08, 2005, 11:24:53 PM
Here in Michigan a terrorist could cross Lake St. Clair, do some damage, go back to Canada and the USBP would not know what hit, or from where.

Karaya
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Maverick on June 09, 2005, 03:33:38 PM
Star,

You got it perfectly. Thanks for explaining the complicated situation for ripper.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: RTR on June 09, 2005, 03:44:09 PM
There is no complicated situation here.

He is an American, who killed in Canada and was allowed entry into the US, by  US Border Guards, even though he had a bloodstained chainsaw and  various other weapons.

Obviously this is entirely Canada's fault. No blame whatsoever should be attributed to the US border guards:rolleyes:

I mean really....sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

RTR
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Maverick on June 09, 2005, 08:28:59 PM
So you say now he killed in Canada and left, entering the US. Pardon me but didn't he pass through the Canadian checkpoint first? Why didn't those Canadian border guards stop him before he left the country while bloodstained and with weapons?
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Pongo on June 09, 2005, 10:04:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
So you say now he killed in Canada and left, entering the US. Pardon me but didn't he pass through the Canadian checkpoint first? Why didn't those Canadian border guards stop him before he left the country while bloodstained and with weapons?


lol
have you ever crossed the border?
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Toad on June 09, 2005, 10:23:11 PM
At least we know security on both sides of the border is now tighter than a gnat's bellybutton stretched over an oil drum.

Them A-Q's will NEVER get thru!

Whew... what a relief.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Nash on June 09, 2005, 10:31:30 PM
Pardon me but didn't he pass through the Canadian checkpoint first? - Maverick

What Pongo said (duh...)

If you want to get into Canada, you confront Canadian border guards. When you want to get into the US, you confront US border guards.

This guy got into the US. He confronted US border guards.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Toad on June 09, 2005, 10:36:40 PM
The times I crossed the border out west I got a cursory look going out from each side. No detailed exam, but I don't think they'd have missed a bloody chainsaw.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Nash on June 09, 2005, 10:40:52 PM
Got a cursory look from? Hell, most places you can't even see them.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Toad on June 09, 2005, 11:42:21 PM
Dunno bout most places.

When you cross out there in the smaller crossings in Montana, I guess both sides have bored guards hoping to talk to anyone.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Torque on June 09, 2005, 11:53:06 PM
i guess now mav and star we really know what irony is. you just need a permit to bring any legal weapons across, hunters do it all the time.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Toad on June 09, 2005, 11:57:08 PM
I used to do it. Not going back though; last time through was such a PITA it's just not worth it. Not with ND and SD right there much closer and just as good or nearly so for waterfowl and better for the pheasant.

But I had a lot of good times up there.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: RTR on June 10, 2005, 12:33:02 AM
First off, Maverick, my apologies. I was intentionally trying to push your buttons, and it wasn't a fair attack on my part. Haven't been myself lately.

In reality at most crossings that I have been at, I only deal with the officials of the country I am entering.

In this instance it really doesn't matter.  watermelon happens every day from both sides of the border (although, I would hope that if he were trying to enter Canada under the same circumstance, someone wearing a uniform would have clued in. Much as you would have hoped the same when he was trying to enter the US).

Really doesn't matter what his country of origin was. What matters is that we haven't trained our border guards / customs agents hard enough.

Okay...back to my scotch.

cheers,
RTR
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Torque on June 10, 2005, 12:40:41 AM
both countries require you to declare and have proper permits when transporting, sure toad not for small game but the big games hunters endure the paper work.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Ripper29 on June 10, 2005, 01:19:04 AM
Nash, You got it perfectly. Thanks for explaining the complicated situation for mavrick  ;)
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: storch on June 10, 2005, 08:44:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RTR
First off, Maverick, my apologies. I was intentionally trying to push your buttons, and it wasn't a fair attack on my part. Haven't been myself lately.

In reality at most crossings that I have been at, I only deal with the officials of the country I am entering.

In this instance it really doesn't matter.  watermelon happens every day from both sides of the border (although, I would hope that if he were trying to enter Canada under the same circumstance, someone wearing a uniform would have clued in. Much as you would have hoped the same when he was trying to enter the US).

Really doesn't matter what his country of origin was. What matters is that we haven't trained our border guards / customs agents hard enough.

Okay...back to my scotch.

cheers,
RTR


who have you been then?
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Maverick on June 10, 2005, 10:58:57 AM
To those who questioned if I have crossed the border. Yep I have, pre 9/11 for both Canada, Panama (our little Noriega dust up) and Mexico. Post 9/11 Mexico only now. The check points I went through had both sides co located or at least in close proximity. I passed the Canadian folks on the way out well in sight of the Officers. I would have thought any on the Canadian side would have been just a little bit concerned seeing a guy matching the description of that guy going out of their country.

FWIW I found the civilian Canadians to be nice friendly folks. Their Customs people on the other hand were particularly, if not obsessively, concerned that no American be prepared to defend themselves on entry into Canada.

RTR no offense taken.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Toad on June 10, 2005, 11:59:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
both countries require you to declare and have proper permits when transporting, sure toad not for small game but the big games hunters endure the paper work.


I could look it up, but I had to have lots of paperwork to bring in two shotguns. They taxed my ammo as well as I was over their minimum. (Well, yah.. .I was on a month long safari through Canada and the Dakotas.)

The customs stop took nearly two hours. Interestingly, when they found out I was a pilot for a major airline, I kinda got the once over. Yet my son, a college student traveling with me, got quizzed for about 45 minutes. Lots of time waiting for them to grill other travelers too.

Like I said... ND and SD will do just fine for hunting.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Torque on June 11, 2005, 02:05:52 PM
toad save the predictable patriotic fervour. big game hunting in canada is still a big draw, regardless if you stay home because of the antics of bored custom agents. plenty of wealthy people pay huge amounts of money and endure the paper work to do so, you negate oh well.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on June 11, 2005, 07:36:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
i guess now mav and star we really know what irony is. you just need a permit to bring any legal weapons across, hunters do it all the time.


Glad to know you learned something.  

So reciprocate and teach me something.  What in Gods name does requiring permits for bringing legal weapons into Canada have to do with a man walking up to a checkpoint with a sword, knife, brass knuckles and a chain saw?  Where did the requirement to get permits come into this?  And what is your point?  Are you trying to say that if this man had taken the time to properly register his weapons with the Canadian govt. that the border guards wouldnt have taken them away from him?  Are you trying to say that Canada should legalize swords and brass knuckles for hunting big game?  

I could care less HOW he was armed, or what they did with the weapons he was carrying.  My point was that the man was openly carrying weapons and a chainsaw, had blood stains on at least his clothes and the chainsaw, and no one was able to find an official reason to detain him in this post 9/11 day and age.  Yet its perfecly legal, and they find precedent to wiretap people's homes and internet connections without a warrant for giving money to a charity.

That last comment is hypothetical, I am not aware of a specific case where such a thing has occured.  Its something that has specifically been argued however, so I included it as a counterpoint.  

Also, this is not a personal attack on you Torque, just a response to the sarcasm in your post and your attempt to divert the topic of the thread.  Have a nice day.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Maverick on June 11, 2005, 09:06:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
i guess now mav and star we really know what irony is. you just need a permit to bring any legal weapons across, hunters do it all the time.


Torque.

BTW I had no weapons with me when I went to Canada. Just my BMW motorcycle, clothes and a tent. I had nothing to declare, no weapons and no reason for them to practically strip search 3 folks all on BMW's. The only ones checked from the full ferry we were on.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: Torque on June 11, 2005, 10:10:45 PM
star, here is a more detailed story. there is no irony to be had. overly zealous canadian customs?

 here (http://web.herald-zeitung.com/wire.lasso?report=/dynamic/stories/C/CHAIN_SAW_BORDER?SITE=TXNEW&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-06-07-22-54-15)

mav, i'm not disputing the behaviour of canadian customs agents and i've crossed the border about thirty times. processing is always a hit and miss situation. sounds like someone you were with had a name that sent a red flag, been there myself going south, yeah it wasn't pleasant. i find no difference between the two countries.
Title: And we thought the Mexican border was bad
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on June 12, 2005, 02:55:20 AM
Ah I see the confusion.  Just because I can see the irony in the statement originally made by Mav, based on his experience, doesnt mean I am trying to argue that Canadian customs folks are overzealous, or that I share his experiences or belief.  I wouldnt know myself, I've only been to Canada twice, first through NY about 30 years ago, second through Minnesota with some friends about 10 years ago.  I have never had a bad experience with any customs official.  Been to Mexico a couple times, never had a border guard even look at me twice.  All I was saying was, given the situation that was explained, I could see the irony of it, if you couldnt.  If you disagree with Mav on the way the customs folks treat people, thats a different topic, and between you two.  

I also tend to agree with the folks in that article you linked.  It bothers the hell outta me that the US customs guys let him through.  Maybe they thought they were "puttin one over" on the Canadians by letting the guy skip his trial date.  Whatever the reason was, that guy should never  have gotten across the border without at least having local law enforcement notified to watch him.  If the report on the rest of their behavior is true, I hope they all lose their jobs.  If this nutjob had been another terrorist and they let him through that easy, I'd expect them to go to jail.
Title: Crazy People
Post by: Iceman24 on June 20, 2005, 11:35:23 AM
What gets me thinking is that they only catch the dumb serial killers, Gacy, the 44 killer, ted bundy, dahmer all those guys messed up somehow and were caught, imagine all the really smart ones like hannibal lectar that we'll never no about... they only catch the dumb ones