Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RedTop on June 08, 2005, 06:01:53 PM
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Ok...Now anyone who knows me in AH knows I am a Spit V guy. Love that plane and fly it MOST of the time...Hurri every now and then...And I venture out and fly other things from time to time....
I have been trying and would like to keep trying this 109.
What I need is some advice as to how to fly it effectivly and what it does or doesn't do. B.Z isn't my strong suit by far but I would like to maybe learn a bit more of it so I can understand what I am fighting as well.
Any tips on this ride from some LW guys would be greatly appreciated.:)
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There was a thread in Ct about spit V vs 109F...phish and I flew a set in the DA. Truthfully I always felt the 109 was a decent match but 1 on 1 its totally overmatched since the spitties boost (a couple of clips up in CT thread). It's Still a great E fighter but has less power in the vertical than the spitty, is less stable "on the edge" and is ballistically challenged. All in all its a great perk harvestor and will match up well in the MA against most of the plane set....but if your flying a spitty as your "primary" ride it might be a big change. I'd actually suggest the ki-61 over the 109F....
I'd keep the plane in the verticals and use rudder to "track target" vs rolling with it...flat turns seemed to hurt it badly E wise. Acceleration is good but not with spit V. It's touchy on the edge and not easy to really stall fight vs hurricane/nikki/spitty/fm-2....eats up lala's ponies etc that get lazy around it...
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109F... Hrm.. how to describe how it flies to a spit pilot.....
It's one of the more agile 109s. Compared to a spitV (bah!) it's not great at turning. Compared to other planes it's good. Think of it like a c202 and a ki61 but with more engine power (both of those planes have an older version of the 109F's DB600 series engine).
Sure, flat turning is not so great, but if you go up at the beginning of a turn and down at the end of a turn you'll kick bellybutton (think of a NASCAR banked turn). It climbs great and loops well. Requires some skill (unlike spitV -- zing!!), but once you get past the short learning curve you'll be gold. Just immerse yourself into it until you feel you have the hang of it (i.e. don't go fly the spit, the hurr, the zero, etc in between sorties), or it might take longer for your mind to figure out what it does well.
By that I mean if you just fly 1 model and over and over you'll learn more than if you jump around to pony, lala, dora, spit, etc.
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The 109F is one of the better middleweight fighters in the game. There are heavyweights you just don't want to fight, but you can most likely out run and out climb them. Likewise there are guys who can't turn with you and will run in fear. Basically anything you lose in turn ability you'll gain back in how long you can stay with a lala after diving.
Stay away from spitVs, hurris, zekes, and franks for the time being, as turnfighting them will require you to really know your plane. Other then those exceptions it's just the same old turnfighter game.
-p.
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it is not fast enough for a crowd in ma but 1v1 you can handle 80% of the pilots in 90% of the planes but a good pilot in a decent plane will be a close fight if he doesn't kill ya
in ct when matched with planes in its era, it is a great ride cept for the upgrade they gave the spit5
50% with dt and no gonds to t&b with it
gl
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Pretty much what everyone else said.
Cept I always fly it with 100% fuel and the gondies as my gunnery isnt always what I would call supurb so when I hit something I want it to hurt.
Roll & turn roll & turn.
Even with gondies and full fuel it has Very good rolling ability Will turn with a spit pretty good for the first few turns after that look for a way to get some seperation & position.
Play with the throttle usually between 3/4 and 100%.
I seem to have better luck hitting a target when in a turnfight and bogie is climbing. so I actually try to get a little lower then the guy Im fighting
Against...spits be patient. Even when at a disadvantage if your patient and pay attention to your SA and fly smart its agile enough to avoid most attacks untill the bogie driver makes a mistake or overshoots.
On full tanks has good range which can be made into great range and will retain speed when flying level at reduced RPM settings (I've rarely ever run out of gas).
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Get rid of the gondolas.
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I fly the 109g2 most of the time, but the style between the two is pretty much the same. Use the 109's climb rate to stay slightly above the target until your enemy gives you an opening for a shot. By "slightly above," I mean just high enough that he can't go nose up and zoom you for a shot without getting himself roped. While you're up there, it's best to be spiral climbing to keep him in your view and forcing him to burn E by turning with you (he'll burn a lot of E if he tries to pull hard on the turn for a lead shot).
When you see your opportunity, use rudder and ailerons to roll over quickly and make your pass and then get above him again. If you think you can hang with him, chop your throttle and saddle up. I generally carry gondolas, which means I don't saddle up often since most of the MA's planes will turn better than I do. If I blow the shot I get above him and set up again. If you don't carry gondies, saddling up is more of an option as I can turn with pretty much anything that's not a dedicated turner (spit5, japanese planes, hurris).
109's have lots of rudder authority, so don't be afraid to use rudder to set up shots, burn E, or roll.
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The problem with "being patient" with spitties is now they are double superior. You cant out run them and you cant out fight them. Basically to beat a spit you need to beat the other guy....very very badly. Phish owns me in a same plane duel...but after 2 fights spitV vs 109 he had no real chance at all. He simply didnt have the "tools" vs a "OK" 1 on 1 stick....I just dont see the 109F as having any real chance in that match up...now with hurricanes, zekes etc I think it has a speed edge which makes it a much better ride...and with E or alt the rudder authority makes it dealy in the vertical obliques...but it needs to end the fight BEFORE the spitty equalizes E state IMO...
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Only true advantage the 109F has over the SpitV is roll rate. If you get it into a scissors match you can often force an overshoot and get your shot. You want to be close though, as the ballistics arent nearly the same as those Hispanos on the Spit. Also, you only have two pea-shooters and one cannon. Centrally mounted or not, you need to be close for them to be effective, and you need to watch your shots if you have to lead the target. Use the MGs to find your "sweet spot", then blast em with the cannon. Sparingly, one second bursts only.
Also remember that the Franz has a teeny tiny gas tank. Take plenty of fuel.
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I appreciate the help guys. I really like the plane. I REALLY have to get used to that compression thing tho. Whewwww. Rudder thing. Hmmmmmmm I think I need to get pedals. May help with a more steady input. Lil jerky with my X45.
Anyway...thanks again.
Anymore suggestions are welcome.:aok
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RedTop
Lose the gondolas and bear in close, (Unless you plan on nuking buffs) It turns well but loses E quickly. Fortunately it has plenty of WEP time. This is a great plane if you have a wingman, in the usual MA environment you're gonna have a tough time flying this plane with any success. Interesting enough this plane performs quite well in the 15-22K range and climbs almost 4K/Min at 10K and just over 3.5K/Min with WEP at 15K. As far as your rudder/compression probs, these are worse over 20K anytime you have to dive, think THROTTLE first!
I flew this bird nearly exclusively for 2 tours quite awhile back. It is a killing machine but requires a lot of practice.
Good luck, hope this helps!
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In my great suckyness, I've managed to get a 25/5 K/d this tour (wish I had more time :o ) So yes... it must be a great plane indeed :)
Eagler is one of the guys I see flying it most of the time, I'd listen to the dude...
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I dont fly it much these days,,,,,but i'll always give wtg's to anyone landin kills in it :aok
Years ago back in WB's2 it was awesome,,as there was a rolling plane set
, and for about 5 days of the tour, the Franz, 38F and Spit5 were the best planes, probably my fav part of the tour, and the 109f was better then the spit5 at vertical acm
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hmmm... im the 190 guy, but i do fly the 109F when i fly a 109
think of it like this,.... you can catch a pony sometimes, but a spit V can catch you other times.
it is a fast knife fighter, that can turn decent
you will stay with a spit 9, but might not turn inside it.
you will be out-turned by a spit V, and with the new boost to the spit V he can hang with you in the vert in many cases.
that's it, think of it like a spit 9. with lesser guns.
this is all with OUT the gondolas, with them, fuhgaddaboutit, you are dog meat
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Hi RT,
Im sure you allready have this configured, but the trim up is a must with a 109.
Have it on the stick, or realy know where it is on the kb, so you find it fast, when you need it.
When the 109 copress, the trim can get you out of trouble.
I think one could use roll trimm also, to turn the 109 in high speeds, but I guess the ACM guys would say that that would be bad flying, killing all that E in high speeds.
What I can remember after flying SpitV with you guys for a tour or two, and then jumping back to a 109, is the frustating difference in fire power :(
Even if I pinged the bad guy 5-6 times with the 20mm 109 canon, the bad guy would keep on flying like nothing happend.
Also prepeare to be the nice guy (assist guy) ;)
Best thing with 109F is that other assumes you are the 109G10, and you might be able to out run faster planes, simply because they dont realize they are faster, and give up :)
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RT. ive flown the 109 for a while now, gort me some good tips of truekill. if i see u on squad channel, i'll take u to the da and teach u some stuff. its always better than just being told. i'd advise starting in the 109e first tho, then move up, just to dull down the 'culture' shock. its a different beast, but same principles of spits apply to it, just u need to be a little more careful. they dont have an eny of 43 for no reason :)
oh and btw octavius, ive actually found that the f is the 109 least affected by the gondolas. the performance hit is minimal, and its worth taking them for the added firepower, and in case u see any buffs.
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Oh yessss....assist guy.
He works his prettythang off, showing all the masterful tricks and trade of E-fighting..
Keeping Spitfires, Nikis, Lalas on their toes... no crummy Bore-n-Zooming, but true-blue close-range E-wise ACM action...
And eventually, the sleek 109 goes for the final coup-de-grace... his consistent efforts finally drained all the E from his twisty-turny prey... ahh.. time to kill...
...at that moment, when after he worked so hard to finally deprive all E of his enemy, to get that perfect shot in for his meek, single 20mm cannon...
...an easy-mode Schmuckfire barges in, and snatches his prey right under his nose, with a half-second Hizooka burst.
All that work, gone to waste.
Assist guy - I know him too well.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Oh yessss....assist guy.
He works his prettythang off, showing all the masterful tricks and trade of E-fighting..
Keeping Spitfires, Nikis, Lalas on their toes... no crummy Bore-n-Zooming, but true-blue close-range E-wise ACM action...
And eventually, the sleek 109 goes for the final coup-de-grace... his consistent efforts finally drained all the E from his twisty-turny prey... ahh.. time to kill...
...at that moment, when after he worked so hard to finally deprive all E of his enemy, to get that perfect shot in for his meek, single 20mm cannon...
...an easy-mode Schmuckfire barges in, and snatches his prey right under his nose, with a half-second Hizooka burst.
All that work, gone to waste.
Assist guy - I know him too well.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
Absolutley 100% right on....
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I appreciate the tips folks. It is a fun ride. I have flown it the last 3 days and although not ALL that successful I have managed to land a few here and there. The one thing about it is , that it is more gratifying to kill 2 in that than it is to get 5 in my V. Well....close anyway. :lol
I'll keep working on it. Thanks for the Help from all:aok
P.S. Seems like everytime I'm flying it.....the smell of Skidmarked Leather Underware and Sweaty Leather T-Shirts drifts thru the room:confused:
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lol rt. i didnt know truekill wore leather :rofl
ill take u up over the w/end and show u some stuff
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Originally posted by RedTop
I appreciate the tips folks. It is a fun ride. I have flown it the last 3 days and although not ALL that successful I have managed to land a few here and there. The one thing about it is , that it is more gratifying to kill 2 in that than it is to get 5 in my V. Well....close anyway. :lol
I'll keep working on it. Thanks for the Help from all:aok
Welcome to the dark side of the force.
The more you fly it the better you'll get at it
To land more kills stay away from the center of the furball
Or wing up with someone Its a good team plane even when going up against superior numbers.
P.S. Seems like everytime I'm flying it.....the smell of Skidmarked Leather Underware and Sweaty Leather T-Shirts drifts thru the room:confused: