Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Guppy35 on June 14, 2005, 11:48:11 AM
-
Absolutely amazing condition. Pilot was made a POW at the time.
2/Lt. Henry G. Mohr, Jr. of the 511th FS, 405th fG
http://www.juhe.at/presse/article/Traunkirchen/1118689835.html
Can't wait to see an actual combat vet Jug restored to it's former glory
Dan/CorkyJr
(http://www.snowtec.at/images/pics/130605_P47D25_Traunsee_42.jpg)
-
Is she Dottie May? Got any pics or profiles of her in her glory?
Exciting news - I assume she's a bubble top?
-
Thanks Dan.
A question for you:
Who or where does one ask about captured Allied planes flown in combat by the Luftwaffe?
I have Stan's dates of combat tour, and he'd like to know what unit was flying the Allied planes he saw, and what finally happened to them.
-
Must have been buried to mud or something, that plane is in extremely good condition. Reminds me BW-372.
gripen
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Thanks Dan.
A question for you:
Who or where does one ask about captured Allied planes flown in combat by the Luftwaffe?
I have Stan's dates of combat tour, and he'd like to know what unit was flying the Allied planes he saw, and what finally happened to them.
I think I'd go here:
http://pub157.ezboard.com/bluftwaffeexperten71774
They have a ton of threads on captured Allied stuff.
http://p069.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm60
Dan/CorkyJr
-
I wonder why only the 1st post in those threads shows up.
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I wonder why only the 1st post in those threads shows up.
Argh! Looks like they got 'attacked'. I hadn't read the threads in a while. Apparently somebody set out to wipe out the ezboards. Sounds like they think they can recover most of the data.
Might want to post a question there though. Those guys know their stuff.
Dan/CorkyJr
-
Oboe,
Try the first link. It looks like "Dottie Mae" may be written on the left side.
BTW, why is that particular plane significant? :-)
MH
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Argh! Looks like they got 'attacked'. I hadn't read the threads in a while. Apparently somebody set out to wipe out the ezboards. Sounds like they think they can recover most of the data.
Might want to post a question there though. Those guys know their stuff.
Dan/CorkyJr
Yeah, it does look like a hacker attack. We had one completely wipe out the oldsmobile board a few months back.
-
Oh my, it's still indentifiable! It's amazing to see the stars 'n stripes are still showing!
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1118785609_tba13060511.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1118785622_tba13060512.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1118785643_tba1306058.jpg)
-
Originally posted by TDeacon
Oboe,
Try the first link. It looks like "Dottie Mae" may be written on the left side.
BTW, why is that particular plane significant? :-)
MH
Went down on V-E day. Last US fighter downed?
Pilot was a POW for only a few hours.
Dan/CorkyJr
Hoping that it's restored to exactly the way it was on that day and taken really really good care of.
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Pilot was a POW for only a few hours.
Serious question: Is that the shortest internment in history? Barring escape attempts that is.
-
Originally posted by oboe
Is she Dottie May? Got any pics or profiles of her in her glory?
Exciting news - I assume she's a bubble top?
Someone turned up a photo of the bird on another forum
Turns out the loss was due to the pilot hitting his prop on the water while putting on a show for a nearby POW camp. He ende up ditching it and ending up in the camp for a few hours before the war ended.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/inglewood51/austria_david-walker.jpg)
Dan/CorkyJr
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Turns out the loss was due to the pilot hitting his prop on the water while putting on a show for a nearby POW camp.
And thus was born the Oldman Flying Technique.
- oldman
-
Originally posted by Oldman731
And thus was born the Oldman Flying Technique.
- oldman
:rofl
-
Was he glad he didn't have to face those laughing pow's for too long :lol
-
Turns out the loss was due to the pilot hitting his prop on the water while putting on a show for a nearby POW camp. He ende up ditching it and ending up in the camp for a few hours before the war ended.
Not a bad time to get taken prisoner. Hang out with the POW boys for an afternoon and then hitch a ride back to base, lol.
-
but the embarrasment .....hehe wonder what his boss said ?:)
-
Sweet water preserves planes very nicely. Same thing in the Baltic Sea (not sweet water but not far from it). One of the best places to find very very old and well preserved wreckages. Wounder how many well preserved WW2 planes there might be...
-
They are giving it back, right?
-
Originally posted by Furious
They are giving it back, right?
I've heard a couple different museums pointed out as possible destinations. D-Day Museum in New Orleans for one.
It does appear it's coming back to the states anyway.
Dan/CorkyJr
-
Originally posted by Wilbus
Sweet water preserves planes very nicely. Same thing in the Baltic Sea (not sweet water but not far from it). One of the best places to find very very old and well preserved wreckages. Wounder how many well preserved WW2 planes there might be...
It's oxygen (O) which destroys planes in water. There is not much oxygen in the bottom of Baltic sea, therefore wreckages tend to be in good condition there. And it's same in sweet water lakes which have mud in the bottom. In the case of this P-47, the plane seem to had been upside down in mud and therefore upper part of the fuselage is in good condition while the bottom is worse. Another well known case where a plane survived well in the mud is BW-372.
gripen
-
Uhmmm, interesting.
However, salt does hurry up corrosion aswell I'm quite sure, dip a piece of metal in salt water and another one in sweet water and put them both on land to dry and the one in salt water will rust faster.
Atleast that is the case with my Leatherman multitool, np with sweet water but as soon as I got some salt water on it I got surface rust. Same thing happaned to my friends leatherman multitool.
-
Well, rusting is a chemical reaction between the material and oxygen so if there is no oxygen, there is no rusting regardless type of water.
gripen
-
If I remeber correctly in the baltic there is less salt than in some other sea.
10g/l in the baltic sea
about 35 g/l in the mediterranee
-
Straffo,
True but it's not the reason why there is less rusting in the wreckages lying in the deep parts of the Baltic sea. In the deeper areas of the Baltic sea there is very little change of water (streams or storms or what ever) between bottom and surface of the sea. Therefore there is very little oxygen and therefore also most of deeper parts of the Baltic sea are practically dead areas (below surface layers where wind and storms change water).
gripen
-
Why is there a difference between fresh and salt water (in terms of corrosion)? Because the lower conductivity of fresh water reduces the amount of galvanic corrosion.
-
its because salt water is reasonably alkaline, which is causing chemical erosion rather than oxidation (rusting):aok
-
Hm... Just look at the pictures. The areas which had been in open water (like tail) are quite rusted while the areas which had been covered with mud are pretty good. Organic material in the mud has used the oxygen and therefore the condition is quite good. If a plane is inside water about 60 years, it does not matter if the water is salty or not, it will rust the metal (alumnium or what ever).
gripen
-
Thankfully for warbird scavengers, aluminum corrodes a little differently that iron alloys (IE Steel). Iron alloys tend to pit when they rust, causing holes to form, or resulting in exfoliation (that patch of metal on your mower that looks solid till you touch it, then your finger pokes through some tough as paper, flakey metal). Aluminum tends to corrode more at the surface, then works its way inward almost uniform (barring any imperfections in the metal).
Aluminum corrosion also protects the metal under it, while iron corrosion tends to help destroy it. Doesn't seem to work as well protecting things in water than it does in air, but I guess every bit helps!
-
Originally posted by gripen
Straffo,
True but it's not the reason why there is less rusting in the wreckages lying in the deep parts of the Baltic sea. In the deeper areas of the Baltic sea there is very little change of water (streams or storms or what ever) between bottom and surface of the sea. Therefore there is very little oxygen and therefore also most of deeper parts of the Baltic sea are practically dead areas (below surface layers where wind and storms change water).
gripen
didn't new that, thank for the info.
-
Straffo, True but it's not the reason why there is less rusting in the wreckages lying in the deep parts of the Baltic sea. In the deeper areas of the Baltic sea there is very little change of water (streams or storms or what ever) between bottom and surface of the sea. Therefore there is very little oxygen and therefore also most of deeper parts of the Baltic sea are practically dead areas (below surface layers where wind and storms change water). gripen
Gripen, sweet water or low % salt water is a big part of the reason aswell, not only the lack of oxygen.
Salt water is a big reason when it comes rust.
It's not difficult to test. I personally noticed it very well with my leatherman multi-tool. It recieved quite a bit of surface rust after I had used it in salt water. That doesn't happen in sweet water.
-
Gripen is correct Wilbus. Without oxygen, rusting simply cannot occur, no matter how much salt is present. Salt only catalyzes the reaction by increasing the conductivity of the water, which is important because rust corrosion is an indirect reaction that occurs partly via electron transfer (redox).
In oxygenated freshwater with zero salt content your leatherman will still rust eventually, but more slowly than in saltwater. In completely deoxygenated water, nothing will rust.
-
Take a small hunk of metal and leave it in a bowl of salt water for a few months. If me and all these other guys are right, the metal shouldn't rust much. Take it out and set it on the table for a few months and it'll be nasty.
-
Yeah I know oxygen is needed to make things rust. What I tried to say is that salt hurries up the corrosion if there is the same amount of oxygen. (no mather if there is little oxygen or alot of oxygen)...
-
Originally posted by Wilbus
Yeah I know oxygen is needed to make things rust. What I tried to say is that salt hurries up the corrosion if there is the same amount of oxygen. (no mather if there is little oxygen or alot of oxygen)...
Well I wanted to point the effetc of the quantity of salt.
-
Is the pilot still alive?
-
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Is the pilot still alive?
Yep
Dan/CorkyJr
-
Speaking of corrosion, remember the effect of bacteria as well.
Entire ships of WW2, resting on the seabed are disappearing, and will not be there in some 100 years (?), for they are simply being "eaten".
The Titanic is falling apart and disappearing (Well, 1912), but even the Bismarck will fall pray to the same enemy.
Those are 3-4 km deep!
BTW, the Bismarck looks quite good still! Being a good looking vessel from the start, the hull is remarkably intact.
The HMS Hood is however torn up really bad.
(Resting not so far from where I live)
Uhhh, didn't want to hijack this into shipwrecks, - my point was meant to be that this P47 looks incredibly good if one bears in mind that it's been there for some 60 years!