Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mrfish on November 30, 2001, 01:56:00 PM
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....the way the taliban prisoners were treated and they are launching an investigation into the prison revolt.
oh, you know the one right? the one where a mob of taliban prisoners bit to death(yes BIT to death) a cia agent- that one.
poor innocent taliban creatures, i'm sure they were 'victimized' and probably by an old rich white male or something.
:rolleyes:
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Alot of groups are marginalizing themselves. What do they think we're a bunch of murdering blood starved crazies or something? Had I been in charge I would have dropped 3 or 4 daisy cutters on the place, whalah! riot's over.
These groups had better be glad we are who we are.....
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I believe I heard that gunships were used in quelling this riot. I'm with Amnesty International on this one, the USA should be held accountable for war crimes.
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dunno about that one blur. Perhaps after THEY are held for crimes against humanity?
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Originally posted by blur:
I believe I heard that gunships were used in quelling this riot. I'm with Amnesty International on this one, the USA should be held accountable for war crimes.
screw you blur why don't you just go join your brothers in afganastan, I hear they could use some more bullet sponges.
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Oh stop, blur :rolleyes:
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I don't think that anyone has problems with the riot incident, at least I don't, or the how the US handled it or even how the US is representing themselves in Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance, however, are committing war crimes over there. The Northern Alliance are just as bad as the Taliban, with the exception that they did not support OBL.
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hehe, blur is such a dork, every time he posts one of these anti american posts (while sitting on his comfy chair with his tommy full of warm food) i always crack up with a few laughs.
:p
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hey blur, you got it half right. We are using weapons far more hideous and terrifying though. Check out this thread: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003859 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003859)
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so far as i have heard amnesty international is 'investigating claims'. thats what they do. it's not unamaerican and it doesn't harm us in the least for them to investigate. the only ones who would be woried about an investigation of this kind are people who are guilty
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What's wrong with having the facts established for all to see?
There were reports that some of the prisoners did conceal weapons and then attack their guards. Well, they didn't deserve any kind of mercy. They were still combatants.
But there are reports that others were not involved in the revolt, were bound and defenseless, yet were still killed.
I'm sure the truth will out.
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After the C-130 Spector Gun-ships finished their job, eyewittness told of a sea of charred stumps..
In this life, some people need to be stumped..
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I generally don't post here in the O'Club but geez Blur what a moronic comment.
The only thing I have to say is "What war crimes? All I see is a battle taking place in a war."
Be happy where you live bud. There are worse places to live. This is the safest place in the world to be and theres a reason for it.
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dude....they BIT someone to death. i have no sympathy for them.
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we obviously have been air dropping the wrong kind of food packets to them.
we got the blind sheik and now his son... wot say we freeze dry the pair of 'em and airdrop 'em over kandahar.
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Worchester Massachussetts......
That sounds like a nice place to vist, hey blur?
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Please tell me blur are you really serious???
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No harm in figuring out how it all happened.
For one thing, it might help the NA revise their prisoner handling procedures. ;)
Two, if the NA is doing this cr*p now, the time to get it stopped is NOW. Not in 3-6-9-12 months when they take their "show on the road" to the big cities.
The NA is no corps of Angels. There's a reason the Taliban were able to toss them out of power. Of course, then the Tallys became just as bad and probably worse.
If they get out of line, the world community needs to whack them back into it.... and since we're already there, maybe we should sponsor a "tank day" when this is all over.
We can put on a "firepower display" and take out the rest of the tanks in Afghanistan. (After giving them a few minutes to un*ss the vehicle.)
They don't seem to do much fighting unless it's armor against guys that don't have any armor anymore. Otherwise, it's a "stalemate".
<EDIT> ...and as for the prisoners. Seems a lot of them deliberately chose their fate. The ones who didn't want to go along for the ride had two choices, right? Hide out and hope Allah wasn't quite ready for them in Paradise, or "rat" on the guys getting ready to attack to the Prison Guards. Life is full of choices.
Like it or not, the attacking prisoners have to be seen as violating the terms of their surrender. Legitimate targets, in other words.
[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
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If we used Spectre on the fortress... then GOOD!!
The alliance needs that kinda firepower demonstration right in front of them. I saw it once, and I remain FOREVER impressed. If I was a NA general with an itch to turn on the USA I'd think twice after watching a coupla of those things take a few turns on a fortified position.
What was the name of that fortress??... never mind. It's "Rubble" now.
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
If we used Spectre on the fortress... then GOOD!!
What was the name of that fortress??... never mind. It's "Rubble" now.
20mm, 30mm, 40mm, 75mm howitzer (!) , all radar guided. sweetness
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Those guys have blood feuds going back years. They were killing each other before we got there. And they will keep killing each other after we leave. Who cares? Our military is on mission. Our people have a few more chores to take care of, then they are out of there. The one important thing that has happened, is the Arab world is beginning to think maybe, the US ain't such a good place to mess with.
Besides. We have some unfinished business south of the there.
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Why isnt amnesty international urging for a probe into the deaths of a certain group of people that happened to be in two buildings some months ago....
Oh wait, wholesome folksy terrorist freedom fighter types did that, noooo you never "probe" into their things...
Amnesty International is just another part of lunatic leftist hate groups.
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Don't be an idiot GRUNHERZ.
They aren't probing that because its not in their field, and if it were it would be bloody obvious what happened and that those responsible were in the wrong.
What would you have them do?
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octavius,
excuse me but isn't it 105mm howitzer?
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"Amnesty International is just another part of lunatic leftist hate groups."
more or less, yes
I want an investigation on why we didn't just napalm the place when the lunatics took over the asylum .. and shoot whoever was responsible for the initial search of the Taliban POW's.
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If we could turn back the clock seventy years many of you would have made perfect Hitler youth.
You think I'm kidding?
Over and over again we repeat the same mistakes. It seems we never learn. It's not about hating this group or hating that group it's about HATE plain and simple. I don't condone any terrorist action especially what occurred on 9-11, but does that give us carte blanche to systematically destroy an entire country, acting as judge, jury and executioner?
With the concussion wave of every bomb there's an unseen wave of negativity riding along with it. This negativity will return to us, call it "interest", reaping what you sow or karma, we'll have to deal with it at a future date. There's no judgment involved here it's a fundamental law like gravity.
We weep, have TV specials and pray to our God over the poor souls who perished then we turn around and mindlessly kill other innocent people whose only crime is that they live in an impoverished defenseless country. I see on the news another fifty civilians were just killed bombing a bunker complex that WE BUILT!
It's the height of hypocrisy and maybe as the stench rises higher and higher maybe, just maybe, a few will wake up to start shifting the balance.
As it is this country is showing definite signs of decay.
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I don't condone any terrorist action especially what occurred on 9-11, but does that give us carte blanche to systematically destroy an entire country, acting as judge, jury and executioner?
Yes. It does. Fortunately we're not using it though, and instead going above and beyond to reduce overall casualties.
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Blur..
The mother ship has issued a recall for your brain.
Please comply.
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Hm, the US don't know what to do with the POW's from foreign nations in Afghanistan. Rumsfeldt is on record saying that it'd be a good thing if they were all dead.
Like it or not, not all of the POW's were in the revolt. Rather indiscriminate use of firepower will kill a lot of those.
Killing of legitimate POW's who aren't resisting, who are bound, is generally not a very civil thing to do.
The rest of the arguments are really straw men: build them up and knock 'em down: it doesn't change the facts about gunning down bound POW's.
I sincerely hope that Americans in general do not condone the killing of POW's.
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I'm sure amnesty international would love to go in there next time and find out who is part of the revolt and who is not before anyone responds.
Maybe call timeout or something.
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Hm, the US don't know what to do with the POW's from foreign nations in Afghanistan. Rumsfeldt is on record saying that it'd be a good thing if they were all dead.
Like it or not, not all of the POW's were in the revolt. Rather indiscriminate use of firepower will kill a lot of those.
Killing of legitimate POW's who aren't resisting, who are bound, is generally not a very civil thing to do.
The rest of the arguments are really straw men: build them up and knock 'em down: it doesn't change the facts about gunning down bound POW's.
I sincerely hope that Americans in general do not condone the killing of POW's.
Santa,
I agree with you about the idea of shooting bound prisoners. I have had a bad feeling about us using a "hands off" approach with the NA operations. I also realise that being to deeply involved will spiral us into a deeper conflict than we want.
I think we should have taken a more involved position on the subject of POW's. The whole damn thing at the prison is the result of ill or untrained forces trying to manage a POW center. Had there been a better than cursory visual search of the POW's there wouldn't have been many if ANY firearms on the inside. Failure to actively search the prisoners made it possible for them to have a substantial number of arms AND ammunition to carry out an attempted prison break.
U.S. troops are tought the 5 "S"'s for POW's. The are, Search, Secure, Silence, Segregate and Speed to the rear. The idea is to reduce the hazard to friendly troops, maintain positive control over the prisoners and get usefull information from them within the bounds of the Geneva Convention guidelines.
It seems obvious, at this preliminary stage, that the prisoners were NOT dealt with according to these steps. Had they been, there would have been no large resistance with weapons and no need to "repacify" prisoners.
Final note. Until we have an independant assessment, and maybe not even then, we won't know WHO was responsible for the deaths of the bound prisoners. This may have been carried out by the prisoners (the ones doing the armed revolt) themselves as a "lesson" to any who might cooperate with their captors. Depending on who we may have had in the area, we may never get an accurate asessment.
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
As for blur, his words are meaningless.
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Maverick ]
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Maverick ]
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Karnak all im saying is amenesty has a hardon to critize government"abuses", but I rarely see them complain or probe abuses done by thier little buddy buddy folksy freedom fighters and terrorists.
I hate to sound like Boroa here, but amenesty sure went like hell after Slobodan Milosevic for what his government did in osovo, but I dont recall them urging for action against the KLA, who routinly terrorized and murdered Serbs in Kosovo for years up unitil the war.
It just seems to me that amensty just wants to critcise governments or corporations and mostly turns a blind eye to human rights violations commited by "rebel" groups.
As for you blur......
Im temped to curse you out again, but I think Animal is right, you are pathetic, sad, actually quite ironic in a way and prolly no longer worth my attention.
Santa:
My feeling about the planned attack on the prison is very simple. The taliban planned this attack before they surendered, they were not in fact POWs but still combatants. They started this pointless battle inside the prison and they lost. Many died, but quite frankly thats what happends when you go to war. Nobody was killing them in the prison, untill they started the attack.
THIS WAS NOT A PRISON "REVOLT" OR "RIOT" OR "DISTURBANCE" OR "UPRISING" OR "WHATEVER" IT WAS A PREMEDITATED PRE-PLANNED ATTACK THE TALIBAN LUNATICS STARTED THE BATTLE AND THEY LOST LOST THE BATTLE. MANY DIED, SO WHAT?
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"Karnak all im saying is amenesty has a hardon to critize government"abuses"" , but I rarely seethem complain or probe abuses done by thier little buddy buddy folksy freedom fighters andterrorists."
No?..go and check their website. http://www.amnesty.org (http://www.amnesty.org)
Have a look through the archive.
You'll see *everyone* gets the attention of AI, including their socalled "ittle buddy buddy folksy freedom fighters andterrorists"...and AI would stand up for your rights too, should they be infringed.
" but I dont recall them urging for action against the KLA,who routinly terrorized and murdered Serbs in Kosovo for years up unitil the war."
Did you recieve the AI newsletter? Just because the press doesnt report it, doesnt mean that AI doesnt call for action.
"It just seems to me that amensty just wants to critcise governments or corporations and mostly turns a blind eye to human rights violations commited by "rebel" groups."
You couldnt be more wrong. Again, I refer to their archive on their website.
Daff
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Daff ]
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Why are some of you so worried if someone investigates whether US military commited war crimes?
Are you afraid they would find war crimes? I seriously doubt it.
Even if they find that we really do have some criminals in our military, isn't it in our interests to root them out?
AI is not subcidised by the tax-payer money, is it? Let them investigate all they want.
miko
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Originally posted by SwampRat:
3 or 4 :confused: hehe...dude have you any idea what how destructive 1 of those bad boys are?? :)
Swamp
Don't they leave a 600yd squad (or round) crater ? hehe with 4 or 5 of em that sucker would be about 20000 yrds deep :)
heheh actually the post was tongue in cheek I just forgot the smiley's. Don't you notice the glaring contradiction? Where I ask if we are a bunch of murdering madmen, then the next sentence say I would drop all those daisy cutters on em :) Though I must say it's a good thing I'm not in charge :D