Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Reschke on June 15, 2005, 01:52:44 PM
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North Africa 1944 a “What If” scenario
The time is early 1944 and the German Afrika Korps has beaten the British after a careless mistake by General Montgomery brought the British 8th Army to a standstill and ultimately defeat outside of Tripoli. For all of 1943 the Afrika Korps fought a delaying action while moving back east into Egypt and controlling the Suez Canal. The front has split Libya almost right down the middle. Both sides are dug in and seeing what the other will do. Time is not on the Allies side.
As such the war has entered a new phase in North Africa. Germany is consolidating their hold in Egypt and building supplies for a possible restart of offensive operations against the US, Britain and Free French forces. Germany has also linked forces along the southern front in Russia and forced the Russians to pull back to Stalingrad. In the process they defeated the remaining British troops in the Middle East. Finally Stalin is screaming for the US and Britain to resume operations in North Africa or he will negotiate for a separate peace with Germany.
The setup:
Map: Libya
Allied Planes: P-51B, P-47D-25, Hurricane IId, B-26
Axis Planes: Bf-109G2, Fw-190F-8, C-205, Ju-88
Support Aircraft: C-47
Ground Vehicles: PzIV, T-34 (representing Sherman), M8, M-16, M3
Radar: 500 feet minimum Bar/Sector 30 miles
Night on/off: OFF
Base Capture Yes/No: Yes to capture is 30 troops
Fuel Burn: 1.5
Killshooter: Off
Visibility: Max
Down Time on buildings: 10 Minutes
Icon Range: Short range
Friendly Collisions: Off but will monitor them and adjust as needed.[/i]
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Originally posted by Reschke
North Africa 1944 a “What If” scenario
The setup:
Map: Libya
Allied Planes: P-51B, P-47D-25, Hurricane IIc, B-26
Axis Planes: Bf-109G2, Fw-190F-8, C-205, Ju-88
Support Aircraft: C-47
Ground Vehicles: PzIV, T-34 (representing Sherman), M8, M-16, M3
[/i] [/B]
I'd rather see it without the Hurri-2c and the C205.
eskimo
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Just for yucks though, include the 109e.
eskimo
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Just for yucks though, include the 109e.
eskimo
nah, we have the 109e this week..
the cane helps even it out as the 51b is the underdog to the g2
looks like fun to me
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Originally posted by Eagler
nah, we have the 109e this week..
the cane helps even it out as the 51b is the underdog to the g2
looks like fun to me
Hmmm,
You sure have turned into a brownoser after the furry thong or leather briefs thing.
eskimo
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yep, that leather has some sharp edges, you oughta see how scratched up my nose is :)
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I dont believe that ^ After all these years its nothing but a big callous ;)
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How about the Hurricane IID to even out the Panzer/T-34 disparity?
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Originally posted by Grits
How about the Hurricane IID to even out the Panzer/T-34 disparity?
I thought the IIc was the tank buster?
is the T34 tougher than the panzer? dunno - not a tankman
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Same here that is why I was putting in the Hurricane.........Well if someone can post the correct info on that plane here I will gladly change to the IId from the IIc if that is the case.
Thanks
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Reschke.
Thats a good looking setup. Before the Allied conspiricy alligations start flying........ No 109G6 or FW-190A? Just wondering not complaining.:)
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Mope I wanted to keep it simple and by doing so in my opinion I didn't want to outclass either side to much so I went with seldom used aircraft for the CT. Sure each one has its strengths but if you look at them of the group I would rather be in a G2 and C205 anyday of the week in this setup....Personally speaking that is.
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The IIC has 4x20mm, the IID has the 2x.303 and 2x40mm.
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Originally posted by Reschke
Mope I wanted to keep it simple and by doing so in my opinion I didn't want to outclass either side to much so I went with seldom used aircraft for the CT. Sure each one has its strengths but if you look at them of the group I would rather be in a G2 and C205 anyday of the week in this setup....Personally speaking that is.
Rogo. Thanks:aok
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Originally posted by Eagler
I thought the IIc was the tank buster?
is the T34 tougher than the panzer? dunno - not a tankman
The IID is the tankbuster and a good one. The T-34 is tougher than the Panzer but only slightly and the gun sucks.
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Here’s one thing I don’t like to see: one side (usually the Allies) having both the fastest and best turning planes. If your flying LW and you meet a Hurri – Stang mix, your in serious trouble. The stang will run you down and the Hurri will turn into you and blast you. It happens all the time. I’d rather run into four mustangs by myself than a Hurri – Stang mix. The Hurri has such a significant turn advantage it really throws thing out of balance.
Tank-busting is a good intention, but the hurri will be used as a fighter 90% of the time. If you need tankbusters give the Germans the Stuka and give the Allies a lend-lease SBD or IL-2 and call it a uber Fairey Battle.
eskimo
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If the F-8 is put in for tank busting (now with 12x rockets!) and the hurricane was put in for the same reason, then the hurricane needs to be the IID, not the IIC. IID is almost useless vs aircraft. Almost. It's rare to get kills on planes in it. And it's much easier to defeat as you have more leeway to position on it (snapshots won't blow you into a fireball instantly).
IID would make this a better setupd. 2 fighters, 1 ground attack, and 1 bomber each side. Good idea. Let us know how it turns out.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Tank-busting is a good intention, but the hurri will be used as a fighter 90% of the time. If you need tankbusters give the Germans the Stuka and give the Allies a lend-lease SBD or IL-2 and call it a uber Fairey Battle.
eskimo
This is a good idea Eskimo. You probably won't see a lot of tanks. If there should be a group of tanks the IL2 will work nicely, but will rarely be used as a fighter. Same can be said for the SBD. I believe the USAAF used SBD's in North Africa and called them A-34s.
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Originally posted by Krusty
If the F-8 is put in for tank busting (now with 12x rockets!) and the hurricane was put in for the same reason, then the hurricane needs to be the IID, not the IIC. IID is almost useless vs aircraft. Almost. It's rare to get kills on planes in it. And it's much easier to defeat as you have more leeway to position on it (snapshots won't blow you into a fireball instantly).
IID would make this a better setupd. 2 fighters, 1 ground attack, and 1 bomber each side. Good idea. Let us know how it turns out.
12x rockets! Holy cow.
eskimo
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The F-8 is for tank killing as well. I will take the change on the Hurri under suggestions and will monitor its usage all weekend. At some point I will make a change to probably the IL-2 if its needed.
Thanks for the input gentlemen.
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The IID wont be used as a fighter with the pair of .303's and the 40mm anti-tank guns, whereas the IL2 is an excellent field defence fighter.
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Agreed. The Hurri IID is useless in air to air compared to even the Hurri I. Those 40mm just go right through most planes without doing any real damage (except the hole itself). Its not like the 20mm HE rounds.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Agreed. The Hurri IID is useless in air to air compared to even the Hurri I. Those 40mm just go right through most planes without doing any real damage (except the hole itself). Its not like the 20mm HE rounds.
even one 40mm will blow most planes to peices.
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TK is correct. You over-estimate AH2's complexity with hit detection :) It'll blow up any plane in one hit, BUT it's damn near impossible to get any hits ever to land on target.
IL2 is crap for busting tanks. Especially T34s. The 23mm guns won't do squat. But the 40mm guns of the IID will disable or kill the T34 and the panzer with just 2 rounds into the turret.
Plus I dogfight all the time in IL2s. Down low they turn better than most planes and are slower (allowing them to turn inside other turns) and the high number of 23mm rounds (plus 2x50cal) means it downs fighters usually in the first hit. Then again, the 190F-8 can also dogfight. I see nothing wrong with that part of the equation. It's the tank busting effectiveness that leads me to suggest the IID over the IL2.
The IIC sucks for tank busting. 4x20mm won't kill a T34, and have a slim chance of damaging a panzer. They just don't have the penetration most of the time.
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(whistle blow)
didnt spitfire V/IX saw action too???
(ps replace hurri2c with 2d, add spit V or IX, and finally add the Fw-190A-5
(ducks and hides)
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Originally posted by Krusty
TK is correct. You over-estimate AH2's complexity with hit detection :) It'll blow up any plane in one hit, BUT it's damn near impossible to get any hits ever to land on target.
IL2 is crap for busting tanks. Especially T34s. The 23mm guns won't do squat. But the 40mm guns of the IID will disable or kill the T34 and the panzer with just 2 rounds into the turret.
Plus I dogfight all the time in IL2s. Down low they turn better than most planes and are slower (allowing them to turn inside other turns) and the high number of 23mm rounds (plus 2x50cal) means it downs fighters usually in the first hit. Then again, the 190F-8 can also dogfight. I see nothing wrong with that part of the equation. It's the tank busting effectiveness that leads me to suggest the IID over the IL2.
The IIC sucks for tank busting. 4x20mm won't kill a T34, and have a slim chance of damaging a panzer. They just don't have the penetration most of the time.
I find the IL-2 to be a fine tank buster, but that is irrelevent because I agree that the Hurri D would be a better choice. It also won't impact the air combat nearly as much as the IIC.
eskimo
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Originally posted by 1K3
(whistle blow)
didnt spitfire V/IX saw action too???
(ps replace hurri2c with 2d, add spit V or IX, and finally add the Fw-190A-5
(ducks and hides)
Please don't.
- oldman
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I will not add a Spitfire to this setup....Take that as the gospel according to Reschke on my setup.