Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Pyro on June 15, 2005, 04:44:21 PM
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For the O’club to continue to exist on this message board, it needs to get back to its roots. The O’club was originally opened as a place to socialize with other Aces High players and converse about topics not directly related to AH. Over time, it’s gone from a place to socially interact with other players to a place to antisocially interact with internet trolls. It went from insightful to inciteful with many opinions simply expressed for shock value.
There’s been numerous suggestions made in the thread I opened in the general forum. I’d like to address a few of them.
“It’s fine as it was.”
No it isn’t. It will change, it’s just a matter of whether that change will be to the nature of the forum or the existence of the forum. Leaving it as it was is no longer an option.
“AH needs the O’club.”
Sorry, you’re kidding yourself if you believe that. The O’club can be a positive thing for the community, but it can also be a negative. If the negative outweighs the positive, then we find ourselves in a situation where we can have addition by subtraction. We didn’t start AH so that we could have the O’club.
After reading a lot and thinking about it, I concur with the opinion that the community of the O’club need to self-moderate. I have deep reservations about whether this could happen, but we can try. If the O’club community as a whole can’t show a minimal level of self-control, then nothing else will work. It is paramount that the social standards of what is viewed as acceptable in the O’club is changed.
I also think some moderators from the community are needed. We don’t have the time to spend trying through a bunch of off topic stuff to keep people from posting trash. It’s not that I think outside moderators can do that either, but I do think it is necessary in terms of stopping drive-bys and shutting down some things before they boil over.
Are there persons who would be consensus picks who would be willing to moderate this forum?
I’m reopening the O’club for now and sticking this message to talk about moderator candidates as well as discussing what should and shouldn’t be acceptable in here.
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Mod candidate #1----> Seagoon
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I believe finding unbias moderators will be a difficult task
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I guess the question is... how many moderators do you need, Pyro?
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I don't know, that depends on how much time they spend in the oclub.
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do they get a break on their AH sub? :)
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Originally posted by Pyro
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Are there persons who would be consensus picks who would be willing to moderate this forum?
Prolly so, but its also likely that the resultant moderation by known personalities may cause some controversy. You might consider having anonymous moderators like you do in arena.
culero
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My thoughts...nominate all ya want. Then, Pyro, keep your picks confidential so we dont have a situation where folks are hammering the moderators for intervention.
Just my thoughts.
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I dont know how well moderators would go over in here. Might be better to have anonymous mods like you had in game at one time. Not sure if those are still around since I havent played in a while. Seems to me that if the mods were made public it might cause more of a problem than we already had.
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Definatly have to be anonymous. Just wondering, in a area so full of political and moral differences shouldnt the mods have to agree that their decisions would be non biased ?
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Definatly have to be anonymous.
Would it be a good idea if the mods all know who the other mods are?
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I'd nominate a few. Don't know if they would have the time or desire to moderate, but these people have been consistantly civil and I would trust them completely:
Toad, Seagoon, Sandman, Laz, and Nilsen.
I'm sure there are others I missed, but these people seem like good choices.
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My vote (if it counts) go to Seagoon, Nash, and Nilsen (except on weekends) :D
Daniel
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I agree that moderators could be put in place from the community.
I also agree that their identity should remain anonymous.
Finding unbiased moderators wouldn't be that hard of a task in my opinion. Normally, when you give someone some responsibility in keeping our house clean, it usually makes that individual behave a little more responsibly.
Cheers,
RTR
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I'm going to side with making the moderators known.
It seems to me that making the mod anonymous in the MA hasn't helped their credibility.
By making the names of the moderators public, the community can police the moderator and ensure that he doesn't act in a biased or prejudicial manner.
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You can put me in for moderating if ya like. I check the boards nonstop all day. Have since the game came out.
Glad to have the club back.
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I think I will be a lot more considerate in my posts from now on.
HTC, thanks for reopening this forum.
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Wouldnt having them known can also cause some animosity.
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Prejudice and bias are all perspectives. Someone will always accuse a moderator of bias or prejudice. The very nature of the task requires the moderator to make judgement calls, which makes them biased.
The bias should be towards the goal to be reached.
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Sandman, what might be better is to have the moderators known to the other moderators. This would at least eliminate the possibilty of one of the moderators being "ridden out of town on a rail."
Let the moderators, moderate each other. I would hate to see anyone swarmed over a decision that he or she made, right or wrong.
Cheers,
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
Sandman, what might be better is to have the moderators known to the other moderators. This would at least eliminate the possibilty of one of the moderators being "ridden out of town on a rail."
Let the moderators, moderate each other. I would hate to see anyone swarmed over a decision that he or she made, right or wrong.
Cheers,
RTR
That's a good compromise. :aok
Of course, you do know that there will immediately be a thread dedicated to the "guess who the mod is" game.
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I nominate Toad and Sandman.
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Unbiased is not only impossible, its unnecessary. So is being anonymous.Everybody has an opinion. What is needed is a group that are honest enough to enforce the ROC that HTC wants put in place - whether they personally agree with it or not - and won't play favorites. Everybody's gripe with the ingame moderators is that enforcement is not fairly or evenly applied. They are anonymous, doesn't stop people from badmouthing them. Moderators don't need to be anonymous, and they dont need to be unbiased. They just need to be honest and fair.
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You could have like a security counsel made up of permanant members that can vote on issues and work together to ensure BBS peace......It could be called the Uni......wait..thats already been done.
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My previous nominations, plus two more:
Toad
Furball
Sandman
LePaul
Gunslinger
Ripsnort (not sure how much time he has for O'Clubbing these days though)
Would not want them to be anonymous...no need.
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I 2nd the vote for Seagoon, Nash and Sandman! Just go read their previous posts. Always intelligent, coherent, and respectful.
g00b
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In response:
Things I thought were "unacceptable": (And I'm not saying I never did any of this stuff. I'm not casting stones in my glass house.)
1. Ad hominem attacks, attacks on the poster not the ideas posted. We'd eliminate a lot of problems is we cut out the ad hominems.
For those unclear as to ad hominem:
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:
Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
2. Obscenities. Even the clever little ways folks try to bypass the BBS language filter, like with misspellings.
An old Ops Officer once told me "Vulgarity is the first recourse of the truly unimaginative."
Anyway, they add nothing to the discussion. We can do without.
3. PrOn, of course. This place should be worksafe so the desk slaves can check it to enhance their daily grind.
Things I think are acceptable and should be in here.
1. Life events; birthdays, injuries, getting a pilot's license, marriages, etc. This stuff makes people real, enhances the sense of community.
2. The obviously "normal" stuff.. flying, bbq, hot rods, photography, etc.
3. News. People are going to discuss the latest world/national/local news and weather.
4. Politics. Yep; part of life, an interesting part. No reason it can't be discussed with a little respect and polite discourse on all sides.
5. Religion. Yep; part of life, an interesting part. No reason it can't be discussed with a little respect and polite discourse on all sides.
6. Other miscellaneous items.
They key, however, is showing some basic decency and respect. All else flows from that.
I'm glad it's back. Somebody tell me if I slip into jerk mode. It's only a keystroke away for any of us on any given day. ;)
Thanks!
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Originally posted by crowMAW
My previous nominations, plus two more:
Toad
Furball
Sandman
LePaul
Gunslinger
Ripsnort (not sure how much time he has for O'Clubbing these days though)
Would not want them to be anonymous...no need.
I would think the O Club needs new blood to moderate. I nominate Myself and Navajoboy
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I'd like to nominate:
Seagoon (but he won't do it)
Nash
Leslie
Toad
MT
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Limiting the number of monitors to just a few will turn a part time hobby into a part time job. I honestly think that 20 or more mods would be ideal. Some folks might only be on for an hour a day; with a lot of mods there will most likely always be someone on. Bad threads/posts wouldn’t last long. You don’t want to create a situation where folks feel obligated to check the boards and make sure that the kids are behaving. It would be best to choose folks who are here a lot anyway, and who already post a lot. It would also be wise to pick folks from a variety of time zones.
Most importantly, I think it would be wise to choose one or two “Chief Mods” whose job is to handle complaints about mods and keep them in line. You don’t want a situation where you have daily complaints about Nazi mods who delete threads; then you’d have to figure out what happened and who said what, etc.
Give the mods their own forum for reporting incidents, bans, sheduals, etc.
eskimo
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You know a week ago, I would have said that I would make a good moderator. I a moderate on most issues, not easily offended and just an all round super nice guy.
Then I had jury duty this week.
The merits of the case are irrelevent.
I had to sit in judgement of another human being.
It is not an easy thing to do, and I am glad that I do not have to do it again for quite awhile, in fact I hope I NEVER have to do it again but I would as it is a civic duty to.
So where is this ramble going, The only person I want to judge in the future is myself.
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Toad, Lazs, MiniD.
Toad because he's just about if not the most reasonable person on this BBS.
Lazs and MiniD because they just won't take it personally and thus I believe will be as close to totally objective as possible.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I nominate Toad and Sandman.
Aye! There it is.
Both moderate, reasonable, and not prone to over-reaction. Respected by most if not all, and a nice semi-left/semi-right balance. Both would be reluctant but not hessitant to use their moderator's powers, and would be able to articulate the reasons for doing so in a way that would make sense to almost anyone.
So that's my vote.
( as long as they let me to continue to bypass the language filter, of course .)
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I nominate SlapShot--seems to *get* the value of the O'Club.
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Seagoon
Nash
MT
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Limiting the number of monitors to just a few will turn a part time hobby into a part time job. I honestly think that 20 or more mods would be ideal. Some folks might only be on for an hour a day; with a lot of mods there will most likely always be someone on. Bad threads/posts wouldn’t last long. You don’t want to create a situation where folks feel obligated to check the boards and make sure that the kids are behaving. It would be best to choose folks who are here a lot anyway, and who already post a lot. It would also be wise to pick folks from a variety of time zones.
Most importantly, I think it would be wise to choose one or two “Chief Mods” whose job is to handle complaints about mods and keep them in line. You don’t want a situation where you have daily complaints about Nazi mods who delete threads; then you’d have to figure out what happened and who said what, etc.
Give the mods their own forum for reporting incidents, bans, sheduals, etc.
eskimo
I assumed that the "Chief Mods" are HTC.
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Sandman, Toad, Nilsen, Seagoon..... what would you say? Are you willing to moderate?
I think Toad Sandman and Seagoon are probably as close to unanimous choices as we could get. Nilsen too.
So what you you guys say?
I droped Laz, because he admitted that he wouldn't really desire to moderate.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'd like to nominate:
Yes, but would you serve as moderator??
BTW Toad...no ad hominems, huh...well, how is anyone gonna dismiss my arguments by simply calling me a "liberul"...hmmm. :aok
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Seagoon
Nash
MT
Nash is a very intelligent, nice guy but I don't think he really has the compass to moderate. Nash is probably more like LaZ and myself in that he wouldn't feel the need to moderate very many things.
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I appreciate the nominations... and yeah.. I'd give it a go.
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Doh... Gunslinger would be good also.
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Thx for opening it up again Pyro :)
I think most of the regular users of the club can do the job, and it wont take the HTC crew many minutes to fire/hire new mods if they mess up or can't do it anymore.
Would prolly be best tho if they are not anonymous and cant "hide".
Would prolly also be a good thing to select a few from different timezones so that its covered 24/7.
my 0.02$
-edit- I see ive been nominated by NUKE and Cyrano.. thx :) If more people think thats a good idea id give it a shot.
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I think a guy like Nash would do a good job.
Be careful not to big the little guy with the big chip on his shoulder and I am sure a number of people here could do a half decent job.
I think volunteering to do such a thankless task is a bit suspect. I would like to think the volunteers are doing it out of a sense of willingness to contribute to the communtiy. My gut tells me that some of them are just doing it for a chance to wield some authority.
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I nominate myself. I'd like to help in any way I can to keep the O'Club alive.
I read the board all the time, and have alot of time to put into it. I think most of my posts have been on the moderate side and I never intetionally attack/flame.
Not wanting power here. Just love the O'club discussions and don't want to see it die permanently.
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I still think the moderators should remain anonymous to all but HTC and the other moderators. We have all seen the "witch hunts" and meltdowns that have happened in the O'club. These people who agree to moderate must have the ability to fly in the game without the fear that they will be hounded for their decisions.
Complaints about moderation could be dealt with through a common email or private forum that would go directly to all moderators, without involving the rest of the community.
Guidlines would have to be established for what tools the moderators would have available to them. I would think that editing posts for rule violations, locking of threads and shuffling of posts to correct forums would be a start. The deleting of entire threads or posts should remain open to HTC staff only, IMHO. Although, I would suggest that the moderators be allowed to recommend in such instances, same for temporary banning.
I can't say that being a moderator would be a particularly rewarding endeavor, however I would be willing to throw my hat in the ring.
Just a couple of constructive thoughts.
cheers,
RTR
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BTW thanyou Pyro for bringing in back. And thanks to Straffo for putting aside past differences and supporting my point of view.
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again i offer to be a moderator, thought i don't i'd have any backers.
i still stick by my thoughts that it will be hard to keep them "anonymous" without seperate login handles, and also if a moderator gets "edited" himself that is grounds for losing the moderator privlidge
thank you Pyro for opening the o'club back up.
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Toad,
Good list.
Another thing that people should try to avoid is strawman arguments where somebody makes a claim and then another either distorts it beyond reason or makes up something entirely different and tears it apart, then claiming that they won.
Made up examples:
lazs: American citizens have the right to carry firearms and silly things like assault weapon bans and clip bans are unconstituional.
Karnak: Yeah, fine. Then when some psycho blows up a city instead of shooting up an office because he is allowed to bear arms and so has a nuke you'll be fine and dandy with it?
In this made up example I had lazs take a position on an issue and then had myself go off into lala land and argue against a position, private ownership of nuclear weapons, that he never advocated. By doing so I never entered a debate with him, I just debated with an insane person in my mind. ;p
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Originally posted by Sandman
I appreciate the nominations... and yeah.. I'd give it a go.
We have moderator number one, gentlemen!
Let's here it from Toad now and we're rolling.
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Wow. Lot of posts while I was writing my Epistle.
As for the Mods, I agree with Eskimo. The more the merrier in general. Initially, this board probably does need a large "police force".
I hate listing some because I'll leave some good ones out. I apologize in advance.
Seagoon, Sandman, MT, Nash, Straffo, Nashwan, GhostFT, Sparks, Laz, Oboe, Wotan, Maverick, Eskimo, Charon, Thrawn, Funked, Holden, Crow, Slapshot, Karnak, Gunslinger, Silat, Nilsen (but we have to put a sobriety interlock on his keyboard on the weekends ;) ).
These are all guys that are around a bunch and I just never see them really out of line; they usually can make a cogent argument and seem to be able to see both sides of an issue.
I'm sure I left some out, but that's off the top of my head.
Now, Known or Unknown?
I'm not sure. My "gut feel" is that if we pin a badge on these guys we're going to see the "young guns" that just have to call them out into the street.
Now if we make them anonymous, you have the MA situation. The job gets done, people still whine but it generally dies down pretty quick when they realize they have no one to really whine at.
I'll toss out one other possibility. Generic nametags.. Mod1, Mod2, etc.
As someone mentioned we could have a "Mod forum" where the indignant could go for summary judgement.
They could post that they'd been unfairly moderated and give a link to the thread. A few Mods could check it out and give their views briefly. In short, feedback. In this forum, Mods should be able to delete excessive replies. The injured parties state their case, give the link and zip it. Excessive crying in there would just get deleted. Posts from any but the injured parties and the mods gets deleted.
The bonus is the original moderator will see what his peers think about the issue. Kind of a check/balance thing, which I like.
I'm not sure the Mods really need to be know to each other if they have generic name tags. Eventually, they'll "learn" each other from that.
Besides, there's many typing characteristics (telltales or "tells) that will give folks away. I'm sure I have at least a half a dozen of those ..... know what I mean?
There's my .01.
Oh, LePaul and MiniD are already doing a decent job over at Check6 too.
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Toad... just by suggesting a sobrity lock for me shows that you know enough (maybe too much :D) about me to get my vote too. And so does the rest of your list... except for GhostFT cause he is a Schumi fan :D ......j/k Ghost :p
anywho.. a mod forum vould be a good idea.
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Me? Nominated by a MAW? Wow. They DID finally forgive me for leaving the squad :)
Moderating? Hmm...well, I wouldnt mind. Be nice to help out. But I can also understand if they'd see a conflict of interest with my own forums.
But thanks :aok
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Originally posted by Toad
Nilsen (but we have to put a sobriety interlock on his keyboard on the weekends ;) ).
What, you don't like when he says things like:
(*@#&$*&%#@# shlubbernuffle ^$#^%# HAHAHAH...iguana.
But more importantly...will Toad serve as a mod?
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If you're short on volunteers, I'd be happy to help, as I haven't done much in the way of volunteering since I got here.
I haven't been around much lately, but I'd have to say Toad would make a good mod, and it looks like others agree. He's and old fart, and has probably picked up some wisdom along the way. ;)
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Originally posted by LePaul
Me? Nominated by a MAW? Wow. They DID finally forgive me for leaving the squad :)
BD5 left the MAW??!!
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Originally posted by Sandman
I assumed that the "Chief Mods" are HTC.
HTC would certainly be above the "Chief Mods", but the entire point of "Chief Mods" is to take pressure/time off of HTC.
Eskimo
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I nominate:
Toad - (Chief Mod)
Nilsen - (Chief Mod)
Midnight Target - (Chief Mod)
Eagler
Daddog
DREDIOCK
Chairboy
Seagoon
Furball
LePaul
Nash
Sandman
Mini D
JB73 (if he gets rid of the titty shakin child porn avatar)
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I nominate myself. I'd like to help in any way I can to keep the O'Club alive.
I read the board all the time, and have alot of time to put into it. I think most of my posts have been on the moderate side and I never intetionally attack/flame.
Not wanting power here. Just love the O'club discussions and don't want to see it die permanently.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
JB73 (if he gets rid of the titty shakin child porn avatar)
heck i will even clear my "ignore" list fully.
my feeling is like ASTAC, i'd rather be not liked, and have to do some work than see the o'club disappear
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Originally posted by eskimo2
HTC would certainly be above the "Chief Mods", but the entire point of "Chief Mods" is to take pressure/time off of HTC.
Eskimo
Well... if a few guys can do it and do it well, they shouldn't need much minding by HTC.
Given schedules and the like, I would hope that as little as four could handle it. IMHO, the moderators should be a team and would have to act like one. Getting twenty onboard will be like herding cats.
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I don't post that much, but I always lurk in the shadows. I check the O'Club like 3 or 4 times every hour I spend online, which amounts to most of my waking time.
Please keep this forum clean and don't make me go through the withdrawal of the last few days again. ;)
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ASTAC..never seen you act like a dufus so youd get a :aok from me.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
I nominate myself. I'd like to help in any way I can to keep the O'Club alive.
I read the board all the time, and have alot of time to put into it. I think most of my posts have been on the moderate side and I never intetionally attack/flame.
Not wanting power here. Just love the O'club discussions and don't want to see it die permanently.
Yeah, but you posted the very same thing twice. You're scaring us. ;)
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Saegon, Lizking, Lazs. I'd give preference to those with accounts as they have more of a vested interest - Steve would be good also. Probably a few more I can't think of right now.
I like the idea of the participants of the O'Club raising the bar and being responsible. There are thousands of troll boards on the net. It would be nice to make this one a place to respectfully share ideas and make that the "cool" way to share ideas.
We have way too much thug culture in our society already.
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I too nominate Toad as a moderator ... and maybe the Moderator Foreman too ... his post above shows the type of leadership and guidance that the Moderator crew will need.
I thank Toad and XrightyX for the nod ... I would be glad to help out if needed.
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Everyone but Toad left out Charon, an extremely well spoken and level headed fellow. I would think he would be a top 5 pick. BTW, no nominations for me??? :mad: :D
I would also like to suggest that any moderator could edit a post, but it would take 2 to lock one and at least 3 or more for a week vacation, leaving Skuzzy to bring down the big hammer.
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I don't think we want druggers as moderators.
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A few things other things that spring to mind.
You know how threads can be moved by Skuzzy?
Well, skip the "open" mod forum. When MOD5 deletes a post by SoandSo, it just moves to the private MOD forum where it becomes a thread; this way it's available for "peer review" or even "HTC review". Don't know if that is a BBS "do-able" thing but it might be better than a summary court open to all viewers. Just a thought.
As for numbers Sandman, this will have to be 24/7/365. I think we need guys from all timezones and a goodly number. Nobody is on all the time. Not sure 4 would do it.
We could start small and call for help if the job wasn't getting done though.
If you guys want me on the list, I'd give it a whirl. I'm sure not campaigning though. The words "thankless task" are echoing through my head and that little red warning light is flashing in Brain Control. ;) I do appreciate the thought though; I am honored.
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Well, I am going to look at the O'Club more often now and will see about moving my non-WWII aircraft posts back here from Arstechnica, which is where I went.
I am hoping for a return to civility here and if so I would be glad to hang out.
Heh. Thanks Toad. I don't think I have enough of a presence in the O'Club though.
Now, if they need a mod for the Aircraft and Vehicles forum......( Down with Kurfurst! :p In all seriousness I think one of the important things for a mod is to not let personal feelings affect their modding as much as possible and I would not, in most cases, do anything about Kurfurst. )
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Originally posted by Toad
Well, skip the "open" mod forum. When MOD5 deletes a post by SoandSo, it just moves to the private MOD forum where it becomes a thread; this way it's available for "peer review" or even "HTC review". Don't know if that is a BBS "do-able" thing but it might be better than a summary court open to all viewers. Just a thought.
In the past, the "deleted" threads were simply moved to a forum that general users couldn't get to. AFAIK, that's still the case.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Well... if a few guys can do it and do it well, they shouldn't need much minding by HTC.
Given schedules and the like, I would hope that as little as four could handle it. IMHO, the moderators should be a team and would have to act like one. Getting twenty onboard will be like herding cats.
Would you want this job if you had to cover a certain time? Would you really be willing to be on call an average of 6 hours a day? I’m suggesting letting those who are on anyway and already delete inappropriate posts whenever they see them. The idea would be that you wouldn’t need schedules; just visit the O-Club as you always have and when you see a post from Michael Jackson asking for young boys to go “camping” with him, you delete it. You’d probably record the incident in the Mod’s forums as well. Anything else is asking for burn-out.
eskimo
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very true, eskimo, thats what i was "expecting"
modding while normal browsing.
heck i will even make a good will gesture, of avatar and ignore list
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Originally posted by Karnak
Well, I am going to look at the O'Club more often now and will see about moving my non-WWII aircraft posts back here from Arstechnica, which is where I went.
I am hoping for a return to civility here and if so I would be glad to hang out.
Heh. Thanks Toad. I don't think I have enough of a presence in the O'Club though.
Now, if they need a mod for the Aircraft and Vehicles forum......( Down with Kurfurst! :p In all seriousness I think one of the important things for a mod is to not let personal feelings affect their modding as much as possible and I would not, in most cases, do anything about Kurfurst. )
You actually crossed my mind as well, but I don’t see you in here much. If you had the interest, you’d be a great O-Club mod.
eskimo
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Glad to see the O'club has a reprieve. Thanks to those who volunteer as moderators.
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I see you're point. Certainly schedule played a factor in the past. Skuzzy had a finite amount of time to devote to this. I just wonder if a 24/7 Skuzzy is required. This board has its moments but it doesn't seem that out of control.
I guess the guy to ask is Skuzzy. He probably knows more than any of us.
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The way I see it is that the fewer the mods the longer it would take to "find" a problem post, but it would be found after a short while.. Even Skuzzy alone gets to alot of them and he has other duties at HTC.
Both many and few gets the job done, its only a matter of time, and I belive that after the warning we just had it will never sink as low again.. hope not anyway.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I see you're point. Certainly schedule played a factor in the past. Skuzzy had a finite amount of time to devote to this. I just wonder if a 24/7 Skuzzy is required. This board has its moments but it doesn't seem that out of control.
I guess the guy to ask is Skuzzy. He probably knows more than any of us.
I don't know about 24/7.
I do know that Friday evening through Monday morning is primetime for people posting things that shouldn't be.
Now to update the game.Time to get back in the saddle after several months off.
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My votes go to:
MiniD
Toad
Charon
Sandman
Nash
MT
(others I'm sure)
and lastly
lazs
..because I just have GOT to see him ban someone. (no other reason;) )
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I assumed it would be "mod as you read" for the mods too.
Schedules? That introduces a scheduler and more complexity. I think Eskimo has it right. Do your normal reading and watch for weird threads, rapidly escalating thread counts and such.
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Thanks for the nom, eskimo. I read here a lot, and I'd be glad to volunteer moderation to help keep the club around. There are too many great guys here to let something like this wither.
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I think they should have a mod forum were mods can talk things over themselves.
I also think the mods need clear rules to follow.
Bah no one nominated me, and I do it as part of my job! lol
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me, nash and neilsen would make really bad moderators in my opinion.
my list my surprise
Toad, seagoon, sandman and MT is my list.
Toad I agree with 90% of the time..
seagoon is a preacher and I would never have wanted a preacher for a moderator until I read his posts.
sandman I hardly ever agree with... He is fair tho and predictable
MT...same thing... we are never in agreement. I think he could read a post by me tho that he found completely repugnant and not ban it so long as it was within the rules....
him and sandie wouldn't bend the rules to get guys who dissagreed with em banned... no matter how much they wanted to.
In the end..... My guess is that it won't work as pyro wants. It's possible but it seems unlikely.
lazs
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On the subject of bias, or maybe the appearance of bias, it might be wise to require that a moderator who ''moderates" a post or thread post the rule or rules broken where the "moderation" takes place. A simple cut and paste of "violation of rule x, blah blah woof woof".
It is a requirement on a couple of boards on which I volunteer as a moderator and tech guru.
We had some problems on one of the boards, and it reached the point where there were complaints about moderator bias. It seemed to make a difference, it cut down on the bias claims and such.
The only person the moderators on those boards answer to is the owner. However, there is sort of a "peer review" process
that is available, and the moderators try to discuss things
pertaining to the task at ahand and what goes on, in an attempt
to prevent both members AND moderators from drifting, intentional or not.
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I nominate Eskimo...
because he nominated me :)
Doesn't matter to me who gets it, if it happens at all, as long as they agree 100% with 100% of my viewpoints :)
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Oh and I like Laz's list all good guys, all fair all always civil.
Pretty much the core of what makes this place good.
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Originally posted by lazs2
me, nash and neilsen would make really bad moderators in my opinion. - lazs
I'd have to agree.
Since there's the possibility of more than two moderators (I don't know where I came up with 2), I'd like to add to Toad and Sandman by strongly suggesting:
MT
Seagoon
Charon
SOB
+
Sandman & Toad
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In general forums, posters who moderate and moderators who post can lead to (real or perceived) uneven moderation. You don't see moderators of debates offering up their opinions.
Moderators moderate; posters post.
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Well nuts. No one nominated me
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Check again, Mav. Lazy ole retired guy just hanging out should be doing some work.
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Originally posted by Rolex
In general forums, posters who moderate and moderators who post can lead to (real or perceived) uneven moderation. You don't see moderators of debates offering up their opinions.
Moderators moderate; posters post.
Lotta wisdom there.
culero
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Not Furball... I don't like him.
He smells funny...and... I don't like him.
:p
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Nilsen is a bad idea. I don't want any Eurotrash lefties moderating the boards.
Edit: I suppose some have become so sensitive that if I don't stand on the hill top and scream "JUST KIDDING!", that I'll be vilified for being a right wing whacko.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Steve
Nilsen is a bad idea. I don't want any Eurotrash lefties moderating the boards.
Edit: I suppose some have become so sensitive that if I don't stand on the hill top and scream "JUST KIDDING!", that I'll be vilified for being a right wing whacko.
:rolleyes:
Someone from Europe has to moderate...they are up earlier than we are..someone has to cover it while we are still asleep....
Oh and thanks Nilsen for the vote of confidence!
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Lessee.. what would traits of a moderator be?
CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING....
1. Ability to distinguish between animosity and simple ragging (context is everything).
2. Ability to be impartial, tactful, diplomatic, even-handed and accept/tolerate differing points of views even if personally distasteful to the moderator.
3. Ability to identify trolls that are potentially explosive. Not all trolls are bad.
4. Posess both a sense of humor and propriety.
5. Possess a thick skin and not be vengeful/spiteful.
Anything else anyone can add?
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A moderator is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverent?
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"A moderator is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Republican, Reverent?"
?? I call FOUL!
In the meantime I nominate King Solomon.
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I could help MOD.. but some may go no.. he's too young, he's 17..
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Originally posted by RTR
I still think the moderators should remain anonymous to all but HTC and the other moderators. We have all seen the "witch hunts" and meltdowns that have happened in the O'club. These people who agree to moderate must have the ability to fly in the game without the fear that they will be hounded for their decisions.
etc etc
RTR
I agree with this view to an extent. Plus from my own experiences certain animosities might be created of they are known.
I've seen this happen with others but I can use myself as an example.
Some years ago I worked in a dept. where everyone was pretty friendly with each other.. all the workers that is.
But I noticed that on the very rare occasion it happened, as soon as anyone became a supervisor they automatically were viewed almost like an enemy.
That guy everyone thought was a pretty cool dude was suddenly looked at as an .. Anal Orifice shall we say.
I never understood it. Same guy, same personality yet suddenly everyone didnt like him. I never understood it and never bought into it.
Some time later I myself was made supervisor of my area.
Literally within ten minutes of that announcement people whom I'd always had a pretty friendly relationship with suddenly didnt want anything to do with me or viewed me with suspicion as though I might be out to get them.
Was a really weird feeling as these same people not an hour before were the same ones I ate with joked around with and generally hung out with and considered my friends and now I was viewed as an outsider. Killer part is some of these same people were the very ones that told me I should be the one running my area and that I should go for the position.
The only thing that had changed about me was my title and responsibilities. I was still the same person everyone liked before the same person who shared the same gripes as they did and yet now I was different.
Which really sucked because I was finally put in a position where I can actually do something about it then just complain or say how it should be done. I was still on their side.
I know I personally wouldnt hold any animosity towards whom ever got chosen or view them or treat them any differently then I did before.
But thats just me. And I honestly dont think everyone would follow that line.
And I would truly hate to see any of the names mentioned so far end up like that.
Plus if they are know claims of favoritism and other claims are bound to take place. "oh you let him do that because he is in your squad but you nail me for this"
Or other claims. like "because your a known liberal/conservative you wont let me post that "
Or I'll use Seagoon (sorry Seagoon) as an example.
He squelches a thread and someone is at some point going to say he did it because he is some sort of right wing religious nut forcing his beliefs upon us"
Now that would not be right or fair to Seagoon. who by the way I would trust completely as a mod.
If Mods are known, your just setting them up for all sorts of abuse they neither need nor want.
We dont need to know who the mods are. Nor should we know.
All we need know is they are there.
And there doing voluntarily whats going to amount to a tough and pretty much thankless job from the community
Let them be anonymous but with a Mod Handle "Mod 1, 2 ,3 etc
then if there are complaints about the mods you can complain about a specific mod.
Then the Mods can still be just one of the crowd, which is what most of us really want to be anyway.
And when they post under either their regular handle or Mod handle they would still be subject to the same rules & regulations, penalties as everyone else.
As for myself. I'd be willing to do it under those circumstances.
Not for any power trip but because I care about the Oclub, I spend alot of time there anyway(easily a few hours per day) and I too have grown weary of every other thread turning into a personal flamefest.
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I suggested for some moderators to help unburden Skuzzy some time ago.Any of these guys would be good moderators imho.
Toad
Hangtime
Swoop(bring back the mingers..lol)
Funked
SOB
Lazs
Ripsnort
Sandman
Nash
..adding Eskimo
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Good post, Dred. Hadn't thought about it quite like that but it rings true.
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Steve is a right wing wacko (:)) and RTR is one of the ones I left out. I remember him from AW, very level headed guy. RTR would be a great mod.
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The mods would and should have c n p scripts , this will maintain there anonymosity. anyone violating the rules , excessive flaming ect should be reviewed by the the mods and htc befor banishment . Over at the zone (fighter ace) we could mute and send users to the land of 3 day time outs , they had to reread the rules befor they could come back . it also took a review befor they were banished compleatly .
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We at HTC will have to further discuss about whether we think anonymous mods would be better or not for this forum. My preference is not for anonymous mods but HT or Skuzzy may feel the opposite. My feeling is that if the turnaround of this forum depends on that detail, it ain't going to happen either way. So, I'd just prefer to keep things in the open and clear. It makes communication a lot easier.
As far as number of mods, I think the more the merrier provided that each one is good. One bad mod can undermine the entire group and also create more problems for us to deal with which is against the whole point of this.
I like Toad's initial post of what he thinks is acceptable and what's not and I think people should think about that. I think there's going to be a controversy over whether religion and politics can be discussed in a civil manner in this forum. I really don't have any problems with those topics, but I haven't seen where they can be discussed on an intellectual basis here. Generally, they are posted as flame bait and nobody has the sense to leave that bait untouched.
That is also a big part of the problem here. The O'club is the Grand Banks of the internet when it comes to trolling. It doesn't matter how asinine and obvious the troll is, it will get a huge response on this board which then encourages more trolling. Fighting fire with fire is not an applicable strategy when your house is burning down.
Trolling doesn't happen on boards where trolls are ignored. I feel like the O'club is a big fishing tournament where people compete to see who can get the largest and most heated response to their posts.
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the only reason I feel the mods should be anonymous is to keep the flame/personal attack war down to a mininum . they cant single the player out this way .
I'm not shure how the main arena mods are set up because ive never been muted or warned . But it should be along the same type of setup .
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I think making the Mods anonymous will cause more bickering than if they kept their identity out in the open. Or maybe just as much. But certainly not less.
We're the ones who suggested these people, and I'm all for trusting their judgement. And I'm all for getting their back should someone who feels that they were the victim of some kind of mod abuse decide to go berserk.
Other than that, I really like everything I've been hearing. I really like the suggestions Toad made, and think that a seperate Mod-only forum would help them keep eachother in check and, as Capt. V Hilts wonderfully said, not "drift."
This aint a knock on Skuzzy, because he had an impossible job, but I really think this new route could work out very well.
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"my prescioussssssssss."
- the future nash.
;)
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>> I feel like the O'club is a big fishing tournament where people compete to see who can get the largest and most heated response to their posts.
<<
I think anyone interested in the survival of a forum like the O'Club could help change the culture so it isn't a fishing forum. I mean even the innocent jokes/posts applauding obvious trolls probably hurt the forum. Everybody can do ther part in making it understood trolls are no more revered than whines or infantile melt downs.
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Hmmm... in defense of the troll consider this...
Member A posts an honest opinion that happens to be 180 out from the rest of a group. Member B considers this opinion to be tantamount to (pick your crime) and rather than argue the point decides that the best method is to resort to ad hominem personal attacks on Member A.
or...
Member A posts an opinion that he doesn't necessarily believe in but he knows that Member B will throw a rod after reading it.
Which sounds more entertaining?
If you don't like trolls, don't feed them.
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...and maybe if people would stop posting 'IN'. This gives the trolls validation.
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A possible option is a second identity for the moderators. Yes, there are those who MIGHT be able to figure out who they are, IF they were so unwise as to do anything other than edit/delete/lock with a posting of the appropriate rule that was violated. By the way, I'd strongly suggest they refrain from making the above mistake.
It would give the moderators an identity, so that they could be SEEN, and recognized, without affecting their "regular life" on the BBS and in the game.
It is sort of a compromise, giving both transparency and a shield.
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Originally posted by Pyro
We at HTC will have to further discuss about whether we think anonymous mods would be better or not for this forum. My preference is not for anonymous mods but HT or Skuzzy may feel the opposite. My feeling is that if the turnaround of this forum depends on that detail, it ain't going to happen either way. So, I'd just prefer to keep things in the open and clear. It makes communication a lot easier.
I dont think the tunraround of this forum would depend on that detail at all. I do agree with you on that point.
But I do think it would offer the Mods a certain degree of protection from unneeded abuse from those that wont like being edited. And we all know there are going to be those that arent going to take kindly to being edited.
I myself typically as a ruleprefer to keep things in the open also. Which is why I dont have a seperate handle here then I do in the game and many other places (Anyplace you come across the name "Drediock" on the net there is a strong chance its me.)
But for example. If I were a mod I wouldnt want people in fear or awe of me elswhere either. which would also be a concern for me personally
And if I were playing the game for example I would want to be able to play the game without having to constantly hear about being a Mod or whatever is going on on the boards. Or be harrased by someone for moderating them.
I dont hold grudges but that isnt necessarily true with everyone.
I'd prefer to keep the two seperate. I think others might feel the same way as well.
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i think that the comment that was made earlier was the best one so far....moderators 'moderate'. they do not get involved in trolls or debates.
tenure does not neccessarilly mean wisdom either.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
But for example. If I were a mod I wouldnt want people in fear or awe of me elswhere either. which would also be a concern for me personally
And if I were playing the game for example I would want to be able to play the game without having to constantly hear about being a Mod or whatever is going on on the boards. Or be harrased by someone for moderating them.
I dont hold grudges but that isnt necessarily true with everyone.
I'd prefer to keep the two seperate. I think others might feel the same way as well.
Exactly :aok
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Paying...Playing costumers ONLY on BASE ..IN the O Club; )
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On another forum I visit often, anyone is allowed to register but you have to have made a certain number of posts before you can post IMGs and have an avatar, sort of like a probationary period. There exists an option to make a donation and the member immediately receives IMG and avatar rights.
I believe there should be a period either based on time or post count where a new member should be limited to everything but the O'Club. I'm betting this would cut down on the unnecessary 1-post trolls while at the same time, giving forum newbies incentive to be helpful in other forums. I'm not sure if that option is available in the UBB software but I'm just throwing out ideas here.
On the issue of donation amount, I believe it should be >$1 but definitely under $5. I know some will scoff at the idea of making money off of a forum, but I figure time wasted moderating could be offset by revenue supplied back in.
Moderating: We all know the O'Club isnt the only forum that can get out of hand. With that said I propose moderators be appointed for most of the heavily traveled forums, giving preference to those that have the most knowledge or relevance to a forum.
Example:(Fabricated names for our purpose)
TrainingVet1, TopRankedAce1 appointed to Help and Training
InternetGuru, PCConnoiseur, Skuzzy: Technical Support
HTC employees, 4YearCustomer: Gameplay Feedback
RandomVet2, TopRankedAce2: General Discussion
Skuzzy, CollegeDebater, BillMaher6969:
O' Club
With this method, considering the moderators would hopefully have expertise in each forum, they would ideally have a pretty good idea of what is appropriate for their particular forum.
Deciding on unbiased, but assertive moderators is the key in any of this working.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
...and maybe if people would stop posting 'IN'. This gives the trolls validation.
I disagree. "IN" is a sort of selfmoderation in it's self. It shows, without going to the extreme, that something that is likely objectionable to the board as a whole has been posted.
I agree with the nominations of Nilsen, Nash and Sandman. All are very intelligent and, for the most part, very level headed. None of them have ever flamed anyone that I can recall.
Some obvious things that should be reason for moderation:
Pron
Flames
Trolling
Vulgarity
Some obvious things that should NOT be reason for moderation:
Intense heated debates (as long as they do not turn into personal flaming)
Mild adult language (as long as it does not turn vulgar, we all know what and where the line is)
Personal opinions (political, religious or otherwise) that do not agree with that of the moderators (unless they become flames or vulgar).
We need to remember that this is a worldwide forum, not a local, regional or USA only forum. A bit of openmindedness is required to be a moderator and it should be a quality that is within each of us that post here. You also have to have a sense of humor.
Remember, you do not have to read, respond or comment on a topic or post just because it is there. Just like listening to the radio or watching TV, you have the option of changing the channel, ignoring it or simply turning the dang thing off. This is not Salem. You do not have to dunk the witch to see if she floats or drowns.
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Wow.
Like watching 'Birth of a Nation"... ;)
Gents, if yer gonna go with self moderation; fer cripes sakes, like government, keep it small. Quorum tops, three is best.
One 'user' mod has gotta take lead.. have the respect of the board and the other mods. Toad, take a bow..
Next yah need representative eyballs and brains for the other two. Extremists if yah will. Nash, laz; take bows. If yah need euro time zone coverage Saw's a good pick. Nils is probably gay, so he's on the list too.
Keep it small, keep it simple.
Move threads into a hiatus private forum for quorum/HTC review before being docked or deleted. Threads with questionable topic/content transgressions can be returned to the O'club if considered fit to be continued or 'dissapeared ' by HTC. Locked threads with all the damge done and left up tend to fester. If it's fit to be 'locked' just get rid of it...
Lastly.. did I mention keep it small, keep it simple? The larger the mod base the more likely nothin'll get done while you wordy weenies wrangle worthless whining.
"yer honors, I so beg.. for the people.. for the o'Club!!"[/b]
I can't wait to see the new mod team is so I can annoy the hell outta 'em.
:cool:
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The real key to making something work is finding something that cheap to implement. Time is money. Elaborate schemes to set up 'levels of review' and 'quorums for comment' and parliamentary procedure will kill this thick olive branch that the folks at HTC are extending.
Keep it simple. Keep it fast. And most importantly, keep it within the realm of what can be activated in the UBB setup with minimal effort. Eg, toggling a setting.
Stop looking for the perfect solution. Quality is the enemy of production.
I'm guessing that Pyro is looking for a 'fire & forget' solution. Picking a handful of trusted (or at the very least, not crappy) moderators is that solution.
We need to self govern, take care of our own problems, and keep O'Club from spilling out into the day to day business of running a WWII game.
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Quality is the enemy of production
I'd like to rip that to shreds.. if it's worth doing; do it right. Best talent in the business runs this company.. surely implementing a private 'squad' of moderators with 'move thread' abilities to their private forum is a cakewalk.
As for final review, I'd assume HTC would like to retain the final call on what's ban/delete material at least while the team gets settled.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
[BNils is probably gay, so he's on the list too.[/B]
oh stop it you you stud!... you make me blush. ;)
wanna dance ?
dont be shy now..
And Steve ... love you too ;)
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QITEOP doesn't mean 'do a crummy job', it means that 'Perfect is the worst enemy of good enough'.
If keeping the O'Club requires that Hitech & friend have to INCREASE their day to day involvement, then it's probably going to surpass their internal profit/loss ledger for keeping it around.
Keep it simple. Implement it fast. Don't over-engineer the solution. Pick some level heads, trust them to self balance, and sit back.
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If keeping the O'Club requires that Hitech & friend have to INCREASE their day to day involvement, then it's probably going to surpass their internal profit/loss ledger for keeping it around.
Enh? Previous, Skuzzy had to scan ALL threads. Now, he'll be scanning only 'up for review' threads. Less exposure. Less Time.
Disregarding our diffrences in business styles and views on quality control, what's the real beef, Chair?
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Any mod should be known, because imo - a moderator can only be completely impartial if their actions can be seen, and essentially judged by those actions. A completely transparent process.
The second problem imo. is what has already been stated: Posters post...moderators moderate. Skuzzy's authority, imo, is never in question not only because he is from the AH organisation - but also because he rarely posts - and almost hardly debates (from what I can see anyhow) "opinions". I personally felt Skuzzy was an extremely effective way of moderating the O'Club because he was never really involved in it.
However, I do agree most of the suggested moderators are good choices. Not because of what they post - but because of their reasoning I've felt has always been sound, even if I've disagreed with it.
Toad, Sandman, MT, Laz, Hangman, Dowding, Karnak, Gunslinger,and even that silly hatted drunken norweigen Nilsen would all get my vote if we were given one.
Tronsky
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Alphabetically: Charon, Dowding, MT, Nashwan, Nash, Nilsen, Sandman, Seagoon, SOB, & Toad are my first choices that come to mind.
There are others that I've missed, I'm sure but these gents come to mind at the moment.
I've never known any of them to "lose" it in an argument and get in petty personal attacks to those they've disagreed. I am sure that to a man, they will take the moderation duties to heart and treat it with all the impartiality and maturity needed. They have the even temperment needed for the position.
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There would seem to be little point in nominating candidates, unless said nominees had expressed their willingness to act as moderators by throwing their hats into the ring.
The word “moderation” means the avoidance of extremes, but already in this first thread about moderator selection, there is a strong US bias amongst the names that have been mentioned thus far. In my view, that was one of the things that was wrong with this board in days gone by, and which led to jingoism in the post-911 era, with many heated exchanges and closed topics as the result.
Looking to its title, I would have thought this thread was to be a discussion about a process to decide upon new moderators. But with some nominees already indicating their acceptance of the role, it’s beginning to look as if this thread has become the process of selection, and that's no way to do it.
Some people have in the past made the chest thumping proclamation that “this is a US board”, only to be corrected by HTC and reminded that we are an international community, composed of people from perhaps as many as 40 different countries. Therefore, moderators should come from different parts of the world – not saying we need 40 though! To arrive at a balanced, ie “moderate” team of moderators, it would be wrong to have 90% of them from the same country without a secret ballot such as a pop-up poll in the game. (If that does indeed elect a panel composed 90% of a single nationality, then so be it) Otherwise the contest becomes based on “who shouts the loudest” – a bit like the “show of hands” strike votes held by British trade unions in the 1970s.
My comments are not borne of any malice towards America, or any of the people whose names have appeared thus far. But any student of Britain’s political history since 1997 up until 05/05/2005 will see that when one camp is heavily overrepresented, democracy ends and decisions are simply railroaded through. The key is balance, so…
My list – straffo, dowding, nilsen, nashwan – already mentioned. In addition, cpxxx. We need the land down under to be represented, so tronski and vulcan. To keep my list balanced ie moderate, which is what it’s all about, I’d nominate one further American who I believe would do a good job – DMF/Levi.
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I have a problem with having people I "know" deciding what I'm saying is 'PC' or just not their taste.
My list:
Rolex
MiniD (does a good job at C6)
RTR
MT (or his wife)
Charon
As far as I'm concerned, there should be an Kangaroo, a Yuro and an asian added to that list.
Toad, Nash, Sandman etc... I'm sorry, but even if I read/enjoy most of your posts... I think you are far too much involved in this BBS to have deciding powers.
That is all I have to say. (And this is my 1st day of holliday... I wish I could get rid of that hangover)
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Originally posted by Nilsen
-edit- I see ive been nominated by NUKE and Cyrano.. thx :) If more people think thats a good idea id give it a shot.
Yeeeeep... White sweeters for all moderators.
Nilsen could be fine.
Anyway i dont think that mods should be anonymous.
Just make sure, that PM are not forwarded to your email :)
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Enh? Previous, Skuzzy had to scan ALL threads.
But now skuzzy will lose his overview in world politic and he wont be most educated man on the planet :D
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Toad,
Read your post on what you think is cool/not cool in the forum.
Very level headed and consise.
The common sense approach provides instant credibility while the openess and candor closes the deal.
Thanks for a good post!
Regards
Sun
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nominations... Toad, Sandman, Seagoon, and Nilsen when he's not tanked. Gonna need more than that though.
Anonymous or not... I'd say not. Stick the badges on thier shirts and give'em thier guns.
A private mod forum is a must have. I was a mod on the granturismo.com forums for a couple years before the owner changed the site format, and we found a private forum to be a great tool. Move threads for review, keep sticky threads about problem children, and we kept a "ban thead" where we'd list who was banned, what they were banned for, and when they were unbanned, just editing the posts as needed... made it easier to id habitual offenders. If the board setup will allow it, set the private mod forum so that only the mods can see it, the rest of the board doesn't need to know if there's activity or not on the mod forum.
And the more the merrier. Too few and you'll see mods start burning out and spending less and less time around. Been there, done that. And a clear list of guildlines about what's ok and what's not. Toad's list in this thread seems a great one to start with and modify as needed.
The mods would have to be ready to be called out. Some of the trolls are gonna do just that to see if they'll really lock'em down/delete etc. First few weeks could be real interesting =)
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have a left and right mod squad, say 2-4 people countering each other. they could each have a day to scan. being it's summer how would one or two people find the time.
what no momus yet, tards!
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Originally posted by Shane
Lessee.. what would traits of a moderator be?
CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING....
1. Ability to distinguish between animosity and simple ragging (context is everything).
2. Ability to be impartial, tactful, diplomatic, even-handed and accept/tolerate differing points of views even if personally distasteful to the moderator.
3. Ability to identify trolls that are potentially explosive. Not all trolls are bad.
4. Posess both a sense of humor and propriety.
5. Possess a thick skin and not be vengeful/spiteful.
Anything else anyone can add?
I nominate Shane. From what he posted here I think he gets it.
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Some clarifications are in order.
I have long stopped reading every thread in this forum. I scan the topics and that is it. When I get an email complaining about a thread, then I act.
This has lead to the perception of my moderation being unbalanced or unfair to some. As someone else said, "moderators moderate".
To be a moderator you do not need thick skin. You need to be able to dissassociate yourself with the content you are reviewing.
You need to not care about what others think of you. It will get in the way.
I have said I really do not like this part of my job. The reason I do not like it is, I feel it should not be needed. Why is it so hard for some people to actually have 'rational' discussions? Why does this forum need to have babysitters to watch over everyone?
Pyro touched on what the base issue or problem is here. Trolls. I have been saying and will continue to espouse, the more you feed them the bigger and uglier they get.
A troll is the desparate attempt of someone to get attention. Once they get ANY attention, they will stay and continue to troll. What would have been a driveby posting, turns into a new home for a troll. How many of you actually recognize a troll? How many times have you fed a troll? Can you stop feeding them?
I visit a lot of boards and this one is one of the worst about people feeding trolls. The feeders of trolls are just as harmful to the health of this forum (worse in some ways) as the troll is.
This is one thing I do not think can be moderated out of the forum. It will take a culture change. I think if that change can happen, then the forum will proabably survive and flourish. If it does not happen, then the forum will probably die.
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hang... you would make a better moderator than either me nash or nielsen.
I would not give up posting to be a moderator.
I would not like to see toad give up posting or seagoon or even MT or sandie...but..
I would also like to nominate mav and sob... I forgot that mav is retired and that sob is just useless to society.
I don't want to lose these guys to the boards is the problem... maybe if they were not known (can't spell anonymous) they could still post?
If we get moderators who are wound too tight the emails to HTC will be even worse from the poor agrieved babies who weren't treated fairly.
lazs
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Skuzz himself prolly has the best idea about who would be right for the "job".
He sais he doesnt hang around much, but I bet he has a general idea.
99% of the regulars here could prolly do it. (although it then is kinda strange that so many seem to violate the rules and feed trolls like skuzz said)
Anywho.. id be comfortable with any of you lot beeing our "nanny".
:)
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skuzzy - are you going to share with us just how many complaints you get via email? - Just trying to understand the situation better.
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I agree Trolls are probably one of the bigger issues with the O'club.
Some are recognized right away, and others take a few replies to get noticed (and there are definetly some master anglers out there).
Recognizing the Trolls that are potentially explosive is the key (As Shane pointed out). I don't think we need to shut down every troll. "Not all trolls are bad" (thanks Shane again).
Provided that they aren't allowed to degenerate into a flame fest, or aren't of a abhorrent nature, they tend to run their course and fade away.
Back to the thoughts on Moderators being known or unknown in the community, I see pro's and con's for both sides.
Anonymity allows some degree of protection to the moderators throughout the rest of the community (flying for example), but by the same token could be construed as the "secret police" by a few.
Having the moderators identities known may cause people to police themselves a little more closely, as they know that they are being "judged" (for lack of a better word) by their peers. Despite what has happened in the O'club, I believe there is alot of respect by most for the other members.
The flip side of this one is the possible harrasment of the moderator when flying in game. In this case, a moderator would have to have a "thick skin". (srry Skuzzy).
Either way works for me really (I have a pretty thick skin when needed).
Thanks for the vote of confidence BTW and Saintaw.
cheers,
RTR
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(http://www.geocities.com/lip_gloss_gals/troll13.gif)
*Darth voice on*
Skuzzy you know I AM your Father...
*Darth voice off*
J/K
:D
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Thanks Lizard, it was nice of you to say that. It's good to know I don't just bore people all the time (or at least everybody all the time) with my missives. I'm really not this serious and dry in person... Really :)
But, I am working to cut my O'club time down, primarily the hours I spend lurking during the day. I telecommute and use this as a water cooler, only one where you can have geeky political and social discussion with a diversity of opinion you can't find at most water coolers. I almost always learn something new and often shift my perceptions by the time things are done. But, it has started to shift from a normal break in the day to an excuse to procrastinate. A lot of the names listed are really solid and I can get behind most of them.
Pyro has it right though -- ignoring the trolls can go a long way moving forward.
Charon
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FWIW, the very best shut down of a troll and or flame war by the folks on the bbs was a blatant and obvious nonsensical thread hijack. I don't mean the hijack was nonsense just that nonsense and totally irellevant posts were used to bury the thread and break up the whole intent of the troll. I saw it work like a charm more than once. Good example of "self moderation" at work.
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"a moderator who ''moderates" a post or thread post the rule or rules broken where the "moderation" takes place."
That'd be nice I still don't see why I've been moderated other than because I'm an Englishman with opinions other than those in the majority on this board! ( I realy hate when there is one rule for one and one for another thats why I'm going on about it. Call it a pet hate)
Enuff, neday maybe I'll get a proper explanation. (tried email got no response)
Good that the OC is back lets hope it remains more civilised. I don't like being told to urinate off that still bugs me too.
Anyhow whoever the moderator is the opening quote in this thread would be nice practice.
Question. What is Trolling? Howw in the heck do you get a discussion going if you don't post about things you've seen heard or opinions. I know I've been accused of it but I'm not sure what it is. Ok some opinionsare controversial but hey thats what provokes discussion. Not some inane swapping of nicities ( that how you spell it?) I liked this place because people discussed real stuff. Not PC nerdy stuff.
Whine over.
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I still think that the BBS ID should be tied to your in game account, that would give HTC the ability to pull your plug it you totally out of hand, Also it would give the community the ability to to police the from the inside and not worry about outside contamination from non-members/players just a thought, got to go sharpen the antlers OUT!;)
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Skuzzy,
I would bet that some of the threads/folks who you suspect at being trolls are not.
Some folks like a debate; many of the most respected folks here love to debate.
Some things are taken the wrong way. People often misinterpret things; heated flames often stir from the faintest sparks.
Some folks post things just for laughs and other’s don’t get it or get bent out of shape. The biggest reason I read and post here is for laughs. I’m often amazed as to how folks can’t recognize parody.
On the other hand, I probably assume that there are fewer trolls than there actually are.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Skydancer
That'd be nice I still don't see why I've been moderated other than because I'm an Englishman with opinions other than those in the majority on this board! ( I realy hate when there is one rule for one and one for another thats why I'm going on about it. Call it a pet hate)
Yep. That's why I made the suggestions I did. ^ It's a pity that people can't hold opposing views without one perceiving the other as an arse-wipe. And it's not necessary. You and I have political views on opposite sides of the spectrum, but I'm sure neither of us would tell the other to urinate off.
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Oh yes, the English are victims! :rolleyes: Get real! Read your posts objectively. Better yet read them twice before hitting the submit button. Then put yourself in Skuzzy's shoes.
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How about a mod that doesnt normally frequent O'Club and would only out of necessity
A mod that doesnt know its history.
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(http://www.geocities.com/sfs_tie_pilot/untitled.GIF)
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lol astac
lets see. clockwork orange and fox news.
scary.
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Pyro:
As far as concensus picks, I think people will adapt to, and trust, your (HTC) judgement.
Many years ago I started a Bulletin Board for ex-pats living overseas. Despite my best effort, it grew to several thousand posters. The sense of 'community' from a common interest became polluted also from trolls, troublemakers and tyrants. I enlisted the help of some volunteer moderators (whom I chose based on their posting history and common sense - not on their popularity) and the culture did eventually evolve back to more of a community. But, we had to start a fresh board (to tighten up registration) after letting people save any gems from the past. The fresh board and new moderation was adapted to after time, like all things. The thousands of posts that went into the internet waste basket are long since forgotten.
Unfortunately, trolls never die, they just change names, but clipping their wings early was supported and the key to changing the culture. People and 'communities' really do adapt to moderation that is consistent and fair, but firm. Those who cannot adapt are never a loss since the rest of the posters don't even notice they are gone.
The O'Club was getting a little too poisonous, but you have to expect that an air combat game is going to attract some aggressive forum posters... Kudos for taking action. You may find community moderation will work because moderating isn't rocket science. Beyond the standard profanity, racism, vulgarity, inciting of hate and trolling, when reasonable people cringe, it's time to moderate quickly. The posters who push the envelope know what they are doing and so does everyone else. You just need a few more sets of eyes to help catch things earlier.
You're being very generous to allow non-customers to enter the O'Club. I think the idea of using in-game names only has some merit and accountablity to prevent trolls and multiple accounts. In the old days, you had to be an officer (and a gentleman) to enter the O'Club. Being a customer isn't too much to ask and a little 'exclusiveness' wouldn't hurt. In the Officers' Mess on a boat ('ship' to the black shoe Navy) there are two things that are never discussed: Politics and Religion. Never. Ever. It is not done.
So why not call it the Aces High Club? "Members Only" and a fresh start. All topics are welcome, providing they are not profane, racist, etc., etc.
Good luck at getting this sorted.
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Originally posted by Rolex
Pyro:
As far as concensus picks, I think people will adapt to, and trust, your (HTC) judgement.
Many years ago I started a Bulletin Board for ex-pats living overseas. Despite my best effort, it grew to several thousand posters. The sense of 'community' from a common interest became polluted also from trolls, troublemakers and tyrants. I enlisted the help of some volunteer moderators (whom I chose based on their posting history and common sense - not on their popularity) and the culture did eventually evolve back to more of a community. But, we had to start a fresh board (to tighten up registration) after letting people save any gems from the past. The fresh board and new moderation was adapted to after time, like all things. The thousands of posts that went into the internet waste basket are long since forgotten.
Unfortunately, trolls never die, they just change names, but clipping their wings early was supported and the key to changing the culture. People and 'communities' really do adapt to moderation that is consistent and fair, but firm. Those who cannot adapt are never a loss since the rest of the posters don't even notice they are gone.
The O'Club was getting a little too poisonous, but you have to expect that an air combat game is going to attract some aggressive forum posters... Kudos for taking action. You may find community moderation will work because moderating isn't rocket science. Beyond the standard profanity, racism, vulgarity, inciting of hate and trolling, when reasonable people cringe, it's time to moderate quickly. The posters who push the envelope know what they are doing and so does everyone else. You just need a few more sets of eyes to help catch things earlier.
You're being very generous to allow non-customers to enter the O'Club. I think the idea of using in-game names only has some merit and accountablity to prevent trolls and multiple accounts. In the old days, you had to be an officer (and a gentleman) to enter the O'Club. Being a customer isn't too much to ask and a little 'exclusiveness' wouldn't hurt. In the Officers' Mess on a boat ('ship' to the black shoe Navy) there are two things that are never discussed: Politics and Religion. Never. Ever. It is not done.
So why not call it the Aces High Club? "Members Only" and a fresh start. All topics are welcome, providing they are not profane, racist, etc., etc.
Good luck at getting this sorted.
Great post; I nominate Rolex.
eskimo
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beetle In honesty I can't remember ever telling anyone to do such a thing. Neither can I remember posting mainly to enflame or incite. I merely posted to provoke discussion. Which is, I'm pretty sure, what most people do! And no I don't think the English are victims particularly. but I do think that mob rule has occurred here in the past and I'm glad HT pulled the plug for a while. Just a bit fed up that he saw fit to bar my IP.
Oh and Ripsnort yeah of course I read em but I also read some of the other stuff too. And most of my posts were responses in some elses thread that had already got pretty lairy before ever I went there. Oh and then therewere the occasions like the one where out of curiosity posted to see who else rode a bike and a certain guy with canine handle used it as an opportunity to personaly attack me and then continued to do so almost every time I posted anything no matter what. Yet I never saw that guy moderated once! So yeah I do feel there was one rule for some of us and one for others.
Ok Thats the end of it Its done and past. Im going home I'll continue the debate if I get time at work tommorrow. Sorry I won't be able to respond I can't from home see!
;)
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I doubt many would vote for me, but I'll volunteer to moderate if you need anyone for some off-hours moderation. Hopefully there will be some clear mod guidelines to help out whoever ends up doing the moderation, and anonymous moderation (ie. MOD1.. MOD13) would IMHO prevent hard feelings and let the moderators continue to participate.
For what it's worth, I've found from personal experience that except in cases of extreme egotism, giving a loose cannon some responsibility and accountability will often improve their own personal actions. Some of the "troublemakers" in the O-club might actually find themselves stirring up less trouble if given the authority and accountability coincident to moderator responsibilities. Accountability is VERY important however, so moderator actions need to be reviewed by HTC reps and appropriate feedback should be considered normal. Look at how slashdot meta-moderation works... Moderators are given feedback on their moderation efforts within a week or so. That should be a normal part of the moderation effort, with skuzzy or someone else at HTC letting the moderators know how their moderation efforts are being received.
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Some more comments:
Regarding the 'IN' comments... That has to me been a pretty clear commentary on when the board readers consider a topic to be obviously beyond the legitimate use of this board. As such, 'IN' posts are actually useful self-moderation clues that tell other participants to quit feeding the trolls.
Regarding a separate forum for moderators only, I think this is a great idea. If moderators are assigned unique anonymous idents (mod1, mod2, etc), and only modx users are allowed access to this moderator forum, it would let the moderators discuss borderline threads and situations before they're required to jump in and make a decision. Some moderation situations will be very easy to make, but some will be a matter of opinion, and a forum where a moderator can get a quick sanity check prior to an irrevocable moderation decision would IMHO be a good idea.
Where I work, I have to make several important decisions a day and I have the benefit of having experienced NCOs, an inexperienced officer, and 2 experienced field grade officers available to bounce ideas off of prior to making my decisions. Some are easy, some need discussion prior to action. I rely on my support staff and my peers to keep from making dumb decisions and I think a similiar structure for community "peer" moderators would be a GREAT idea. It may be one of those make-or-break enhancements as it could keep those gray-area decisions from becoming rally points for the insurrection :)
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Geesh... eagl's on a spamfest.
One last comment - I think it would be nice to tie forum idents to in-game idents or subscriber idents. I don't know if this is possible with this bbs but it would help prevent shades accounts from feeding the trolls.
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IMO, this is all alot of work for very little gain.
Why not completely divorce the OC from the HTC forums? If HTC desires to continue hosting it, just give it its own address and keep seperate it from the rest of the site. If not let someone else host it.
Then screw the monitoring. Let the OC "community" determine whether it will fail or succeed.
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Whoops, one more comment.
I thought about separating the O-Club into 2 forums... The "O-Club" aimed at what I consider "real" community contributions, and "Off-Topic", for everything else.
I dunno if it would help, but it's an idea I think is worth discussing.
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I'd like to volunteer as well. I believe I'd be a good moderator for the reason that I tend to not get into the heated discussions with people. I'm not very political, either. Since I sit on the fence, I believe I'd be fair and just. I've been here since almost the beginning so I know what I remember it being like around this place and I'd like to help in cleaning it up to that standard.
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Rolex and Charon should be on the list unless mods are expected not to post.. :)
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Originally posted by JB73
again i offer to be a moderator...
*Inside HTC offices*
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*/Inside HTC offices
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Originally posted by Habu
BTW thanyou Pyro for bringing in back. And thanks to Straffo for putting aside past differences and supporting my point of view.
You know we have common friends in the game it show to to me we have more in common than we have showed in the past.
We all have good/bad days ,good behaviour bad behaviour but the past is the past the only way to progress is to look at the future.
Even if we had dissension or discord in the past it don't prejudge of the future.
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I to would like to offer my services as moderator so I can assuage whatever self-confidences issues I may have by lording it over the other posters and ruling arbitrarily with an iron fist.
FEAR MY WRATH!
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Flame bait
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jeeze, Drunky; take a breath!
Gonna give us all coronarys too!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Neither can I remember posting mainly to enflame or incite.
Oh and then therewere the occasions like the one where out of curiosity posted to see who else rode a bike and a certain guy with canine handle used it as an opportunity to personaly attack me and then continued to do so almost every time I posted anything no matter what.
You said earlier you wanted to know what a troll was. Like you didn`t actualy know. :)
There is 2 of them above. And yes I am guilty of what is being described as "feeding the troll" here. I don`t see it that way.
If even half the stuff that is being suggested here is used, then the whole thing is pointless IMHO. If all this stuff is put into place it won`t be the O`club. More like a women`s social club.
If you can`t say what you think, then it`s not worth having.
BTW...the handle has nothing to do with a canine.
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Personal attack
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Inflammatory/Off topic
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Off topic
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The true qualities of some are showing now more then ever. Hopefully they will be weeded out before we lose the O'Club again.
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Originally posted by genozaur
Just count how many times he starts insulting people.
How about not... please provide links.
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Originally posted by genozaur
Are all here the little schoolgirls ?
Is this thread an attempt to "politically circumcise" the O'Club ? Looks very much like that.
I can only guess that you mean "castrate", not "circumcise".
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Originally posted by genozaur
just like Toad, for example. This jerk (100% true definition) allows himself to call others "idiots" and so on. I was really disgusted when I read his curses for the first time.
Yes, I have called a very limited few people "idiots" recently. Guilty. Shouldn't have done it and other than the recent instances, there probably aren't any other examples.
However, I challenge you to provide links to any "curses" I have used.
I don't think you can.
Over to you.
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Originally posted by Toad
Yes, I have called a very limited few people "idiots" recently. Guilty. Shouldn't have done it and other than the recent instances, there probably aren't any other examples.
Damn... guess I'm not keeping up on the darkside of the Toad.
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Hah! The O'Club is back to its old self again. Isn't this the point where someone calls for root beer, pop corn, lawn chairs? ;)
I'm staying out of it - beddybyes for me.
T-P
Beet
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We should have hearings, quite like the U.S. Senate hearings, and find out what's at the bottom of all of this.
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IN!
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Why didn’t I think of this before? We could have the PETA mods moderate our site as well!!! They did a great job over there!
eskimo
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Originally posted by Toad
Yes, I have called a very limited few people "idiots" recently. Guilty. Shouldn't have done it and other than the recent instances, there probably aren't any other examples.
However, I challenge you to provide links to any "curses" I have used.
I don't think you can.
Over to you.
Toad, you are probably one of the most level headed people on the BB. I'm still a little confused as to why you put me on ignore after the religeon thread, then ignored my emails.
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Nuke,
Emails? I didn't get any emails that I know about.
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Toad, I used the BBS email contact for you. Shortly after you left that thread, I emailed an appology to you. A little while later, I emailed regarding a model for your dad.
I guess that email function may not always work, as I have emailed Nash over the past couple years and never headr a reply from him.
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Try whatmustanddidstraigafly
AT
hotmail.com
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I haven't been on much, and haven't flewn in much longer. But it is nice to visit the boards and still be in touch with the community. I hope there can be a way to continue the O'club, some people just enjoying ruining things others enjoy.
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Originally posted by Toad
Try whatmustanddidstraigafly
AT
hotmail.com
Thanks Toad. I'll copy that down. Basically I wanted to say the I appologize to you and wanted to put that stuff behind and considered it all under the bridge. I will email you about the model for your dad.
Give me a few days, as I'm pretty dog-tired nowadays doing physical work in the 105 degree heat..... stuff a 40 year old wasn't designed for :)
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No need to apologize Nuke. It wasn't one of my shining moments either; I should apologize to you and I hereby do so. I rarely use the "I" word and I shouldn't have done it then.
Let's fergit about it and move on.
As for a model, I'd love to hire ya! Don't know how we'd ever find a Quitch noseart decal though. I do have color plates from Hinkley's book and a very few old B/W "kodak brownie" photos from the war though.
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Originally posted by Toad
As for a model, I'd love to hire ya! Don't know how we'd ever find a Quitch noseart decal though. I do have color plates from Hinkley's book and a very few old B/W "kodak brownie" photos from the war though.
I can make the decals. The trick is to find the model. And I don't do for hire work, I do it for people that I respect.
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Nuts, I'm STILL not on Nukes ignore list. Sheesh
Nuke yer a toad!!! No wait Toad is a toad. ok Nuke you're a goober head!!! There that ought to do it.
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What do you think of Accurate Miniatures 1/48 B-25 C/D kit.
There's one on Ebay right now. Out of production otherwise.
I'll buy it if you'll build it! ;)
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Seagoon, Toad, Nash, Ripsnort, Sandman, lazs, Tilt (if he came here often enough). These guys I know to varying degrees and respect despite some serious political and philosophical differences I have with some of them. The rest I don’t know so well, or I would not choose.
I also think we should know who the moderators are. Keeping them anonymous would cause more squabbling IMHO. At least it would increase the complaints about the moderators and what they have moderated.
I used to visit the O’Club a lot more. Over the last couple of years I hardly come at all due to the animosity and mud slinging and other issues.
The O’Club can be a so much more positive for the Aces High community then what it became.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Nuts, I'm STILL not on Nukes ignore list. Sheesh
Nuke yer a toad!!! No wait Toad is a toad. ok Nuke you're a goober head!!! There that ought to do it.
Hell, unless I qualify for WOT (if WOT is wall of text, I'm in), I'm not on there either. And I flame and feed trolls, or at least I used to.
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Just wrong
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Wrong again.
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Cant you reply all in one post ? Or can you not afford to write more then 2 lines in your post's without being taxed ?
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Originally posted by Toad
What do you think of Accurate Miniatures 1/48 B-25 C/D kit.
There's one on Ebay right now. Out of production otherwise.
I'll buy it if you'll build it! ;)
I've only heard good things about Accurate Miniatures, though have never built one. They are supposed to be very good. They are no longer in business, but have had good reviews for their kits.
I'll build it for you if you have a little time to wait for completion.
my email is rpartin at cox dot net.
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Originally posted by Toad
Yes, I have called a very limited few people "idiots" recently. Guilty. Shouldn't have done it and other than the recent instances, there probably aren't any other examples.
However, I challenge you to provide links to any "curses" I have used.
I don't think you can.
Over to you.
Toad, you really think I'll be wasting my time just in order to find out that you only called me "stupid" or "moron" instead of "idiot" ? To me all these words are unacceptable in a discussion, however heated it may be. I just do not use such words ... first. :D
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Originally posted by Drunky
We should have hearings, quite like the U.S. Senate hearings, and find out what's at the bottom of all of this.
Yes, you're right. To the bottom !
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It's at $20, they listed at $50.
I'm going to buy it. I checked out some that were built with pictures posted on the net. Really looked good.
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Gen, I think you're wasting your time right now.
I'll apologize to you too. I shouldn't have posted it.
I think your definition of "curse" is way off, though. I didn't curse anyone. I did use the word for a person of subnormal intelligence.
You can look all you like... or not. You won't find much at all. I don't really recall but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't use the "I" word very much. Even in that thread.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Nuts, I'm STILL not on Nukes ignore list. Sheesh
even though my ignore list is fake ( like my grass), you were never listed on it :aok
I still love you.
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Just so you know...
I still think most of you are incredibly stupid.
Just so you know.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I've only heard good things about Accurate Miniatures, though have never built one. They are supposed to be very good. They are no longer in business, but have had good reviews for their kits.
they are?!? again?!?
i thought they came back - and released all these new kits - like the b-25 under discussion, along with some other stuff, like the tbf and sbd's...
i have the b-25b/c kit, unbuilt in my stash.. so, toad, if your endeavors on ebay aren't successful... and don't go nutso after just the one you've bid on already... there's always more...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2587&item=5982067638&rd=1
there's also,
http://www.greatmodels.com/~smartcart/cgi/search.cgi?termscat=Accurate_Miniatures+Aircraft_Models
http://www.greatmodels.com/~smartcart/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=ami480030
homepage: http://www.greatmodels.com
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Wow!
Thanks, Shane. I'll keep that in mind.
For those interested, the 345th is having their reunion in Crystal City (DC area) the first week of September.
My dad's 84, 85 in Dec, and he's only been to one reunion I think.
If he's up for it, I'm going to take him to this one. My brother and sister both live in Burke, so it'll be an easy thing.
We're going to try for that.
I'd LOVE to have a Quitch model for his B-day on Dec 30 though. Is that even close to do-able Nuke?
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Toad,
Somewhere, only God knows where to be honest, I have an unbuilt Monogram B-25 kit, 1/48 scale, only opened to look at the parts.
It is the eight gun nose version, even has the Apache decals for the vertical stabilizer/rudder sections. The "Quitch" nose art I cannot help with. Had a line on one of those out of production resin printers, but they are hard to find and expensive to buy and maintain.
If, and I stress IF I can find it, the kit is yours. I bought it over 10 years ago along with a Monogram B-24 Liberator in the same scale. Due to being in nursing school at the time, I never got around to even starting on it, and over the years I have not found the time to get back into the hobby and dedicate the time and energy to doing these models "right".
Gimme a few days, if you will, to find everything. If I can find it, I will contact you here on the BBS and we can trade info so I can send it to you.
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Thanks to you too, Eddie! Man, I am overwhelmed here. I am going to move the modeling to a new thread.
Sorry for littering this one; I plead warbirds/father your honor.
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Originally posted by Toad
Wow!
Thanks, Shane. I'll keep that in mind.
For those interested, the 345th is having their reunion in Crystal City (DC area) the first week of September.
My dad's 84, 85 in Dec, and he's only been to one reunion I think.
If he's up for it, I'm going to take him to this one. My brother and sister both live in Burke, so it'll be an easy thing.
We're going to try for that.
I'd LOVE to have a Quitch model for his B-day on Dec 30 though. Is that even close to do-able Nuke?
Some great film of 345th B25C/Ds last night on Military Channel. Lots of low level strafer film. Thought of your Dad when I saw it. Some of the 25s had the white fuselage band too. Wonder if Dad was in the film :)
Dan/CorkyJr
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Originally posted by Toad
Gen, I think you're wasting your time right now.
I'll apologize to you too. I shouldn't have posted it.
I think your definition of "curse" is way off, though. I didn't curse anyone. I did use the word for a person of subnormal intelligence.
You can look all you like... or not. You won't find much at all. I don't really recall but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't use the "I" word very much. Even in that thread.
O.K. Toad. Let byflowns be bygones.
But I wasn't fishing for a compliment. And actually it's "ubernormal intelligence". :D
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I apologise too.
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Originally posted by Shane
IN!
Damn. Tea through the nostrils at that one. :D
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My vote goes to:
Toad
Nilsen
Saintaw
Midnight Target
Sandman
Seagoon
Karnak
Maverick
LePaul
MiniD
Tronsky
Vulcan
The only think that worry me much is that many of the US posters (and eventually moderators) are unaware of the internationality of the BBS, and can fall in the trap to moderate the percieved "amerihaters" just for expressing different opinions on politics, history, religion.
I mean, different of what are the US based moral and cultural values.
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I nominate....well me
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Urm hasn't this thread been hijacked as a model thread? I thought that was against all the rules ;) :lol
Forwhat its worth I'm not going to go over old ground anymore. Whats done is done. Jackal you have a problem with me. ( thats fine though remember this is only a BBs and we don'tactualy know one another at all realy! ) But to save igniting endless flame fests or constant trading of insults why not just leave it if you don't like me and quit responding?
Honestly I don't understand this troll thing ( it seems a fine line between what is a troll and an attempt to join an already heated discussion. This is my first time using a BBs so how about some slack and maybe a bit of guidance as to why what I've said or done in here is soooo bad that I keep getting blocked! and maybe a little less self righteousness on the part of some and a little more even handedness and objectivity.
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Your honor, I rest my case.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Why didn’t I think of this before? We could have the PETA mods moderate our site as well!!! They did a great job over there!
eskimo
LMAO
The PETA Raid was great... The best one was the Rat/Girlfriend/into the boiling soup... Then the one about the next door neihbours dogs....and lets not forget the Kentucky Fried Chicken petition...
:rofl :rofl :rofl :D :aok
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Originally posted by Naso
My vote goes to:
Toad
Nilsen
Saintaw
Midnight Target
Sandman
Seagoon
Karnak
Maverick
LePaul
MiniD
Tronsky
Vulcan
The only think that worry me much is that many of the US posters (and eventually moderators) are unaware of the internationality of the BBS, and can fall in the trap to moderate the percieved "amerihaters" just for expressing different opinions on politics, history, religion.
I mean, different of what are the US based moral and cultural values.
How can US Posters be unaware? The originating countries are right under their names! And if their originating country is not under their name, its usually because the person is obviously embarassed by the country they live in, or their political critizism is so fragile that they fear getting the same critizism back of their own country.(See my location :D )
As to your choice of moderators, I see some good names, and I laugh at the rest...I mean come on, Mini-Dork has been banned as least once from this BBS for venting some 4-letter words on a couple of hapless posters, he was given a temporary time out! LePaul has his own BBS that he lets pollution troll around on.(It is where alot of turds that get booted from here float around on...) About the only ones I see from my perspective as good candidates would be Toad, Mav, Seagoon and Nilsen. The rest are just too far left lathering up hairless dogs up with margarin in La La Land.
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Skydancer - you might have fallen foul of the right to free speech - you can speak your mind, as long as you agree with the vociferous majority. (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/razz1.gif):aok
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
The rest are just too far left lathering up hairless dogs up with margarin in La La Land.
hmmmmm.
Could this be one of the reasons the O-club was closed?
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No, I believe hairless dogs coated in margarine are permissible, even here. They sure make a mess if you let them up on the furniture though.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Skydancer - you might have fallen foul of the right to free speech - you can speak your mind, as long as you agree with the vociferous majority. :lol:aok
Wrong, wrong, wrong. There are rules for posting. "Free speech" does not apply. We make the rules as we have been granted that right. You can chose to ignore them and when you do, you have made the choice to no longer be a part of this community.
Read the rules. Make the choice.
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Originally posted by Toad
No, I believe hairless dogs coated in margarine are permissible, even here. They sure make a mess if you let them up on the furniture though.
:D At least someone still has a sense of humor here. (And can read humor objectively without getting their panties in a bunch)
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The term "free speech" is neither an absolute, nor is it free. It is only the right to speak your mind and have it published or make a speech in a public area as long as you comply with the laws in doing so. You are free to criticise the Government but that freedom does not apply to private enterprises such as a BBS owned by a third party. The same as if you decide to spray paint your opinion on property belonging to another person / entity.
Beetle, you want to complain about the US you are certainly free to do so, using your own rescources at your own expense. It does not mean that another person MUST allow you to do so using their resources.
I do believe you are educated enough to understand this situation so please don't play the "free speech" card to cover your ill manners.
FWIW this could cover several other posters on the BBS besides you. Me too at times as well.
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Geez, lighten up, guys! Skuzzy, maybe I should have used :p instead of :lol - as my remarks were meant to be tongue in cheek! Maybe we need a new emoticon for that - I will look for one...
Maverick - WTF!!! Me? Complain about the US?! Why would I do that? But I agree with the point you made about the use of other people's resources. It would be nice to think that such a policy was a two way street - maybe that's starting to happen, but I sometimes think one direction has more lanes than the other.
BUT.... in the renewed spirit of BBS cordiality, let us all do what we can to avoid country bashing threads.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
The rest are just too far left lathering up hairless dogs up with margarin in La La Land.
So, it's a left/right thing. :p
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Skuzzy,
When Pyro posted the forum rules, I read them. I just read them for the first time since then. Perhaps it would be wise to create a check box in front of each rule. BBS users would be required to check each box and click an “I Agree” button. As a reminder, this could be a requirement every three months or so for posters. (Hmm, if you implement this I sure will get a lot of flak…)
eskimo
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Originally posted by Sandman
So, it's a left/right thing. :p
:rofl I'm kinda slow this morning...that was funny! Now leg go of my hind legs! :D
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I'd be willing to help out.
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I don't think it matters what your views are, whether you are anonymous, or whether you agree with the rules.
A moderators job is to enforce the rules...period. Monitor them, inform them, then kick them.
People will ALWAYS accuse you of bias when you function as a moderator, so don't worry about it.
I'm a cop, so I learned a long time ago everybody is always innocent, especially those who get caught :).
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Just a question that may have been asked somewere before (sorry if it has)
What can one of these mods do if that is the choise you go with?
deleting content that clearly breakes rules?
temporarily banning users that misbehave?
editing content?
etc..
Or just moving suspect threads to another forum were HTC can make a review them?
As I said. If Skuzzmeister and posse wants me too, id be willing to help out. I spend alot of time here so why not. Seems that some of you users would trust me too and thats nice. thx :)
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A simple little technical innovation.
Poster X posts some inflammatory stuff that clearly violates the rules and is very offensive.
The mod has an IP tracking program and a "hot key". Pressing the hot key sends a huge burst of energy across the net that causes the offender's CPU temp to momentarily spike and rise to 5000 degrees F.
That's all HT's OC Mods need.
That and sharks with lazerbeams strapped to their heads.
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(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/razz1.gif)
- best I could do in the time!
Nilsen - ask the poster to edit post himself, on penalty of "further action". I know I've been OTT a few times ;), but I have edited or deleted posts when this has been pointed out.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Just a question that may have been asked somewere before (sorry if it has)
What can one of these mods do if that is the choise you go with?
deleting content that clearly breakes rules?
temporarily banning users that misbehave?
editing content?
etc..
Or just moving suspect threads to another forum were HTC can make a review them?
As I said. If Skuzzmeister and posse wants me too, id be willing to help out. I spend alot of time here so why not. Seems that some of you users would trust me too and thats nice. thx :)
I would imagine that non HTC employed moderators would have the power to lock, delete, edit, move, hide, and warn, or some mixture of the above. The idea I would say would be to relieve Skuzzy and Pyro of 95% or so of the moderator work load around here, otherwise, volunteer moderators would be pretty useless. If every, or even most actions had to be cleared by HTC, they'd be just as well of to do it all themselves or shut it down.
I'm pretty sure HTC would not want to allow any non HTC employee to ban or otherwise punish an HTC customer. Anything on the level of banning would probably be handled by Skuzzy, Pyro, or HiTech.
It's just an educated guess, and I could be WAY off base. It wouldn't be the first time. I have a wife, I MUST be wrong MOST of the time.
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How bout this..
Everyone who registers has to reveal a verified e-mail adress to either their wife or mom.
makes em stay in line...blackmail is a powerful tool
:D
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ive already got your mom's number nilsen.
;)
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Originally posted by JB88
ive already got your mom's number nilsen.
;)
id like that number 88, havent talked to her sinse she passed away in february ;)
Dont aplogise or feel that you have stepped in it.. cause you did not know and its not a sore topic :)
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well, i apologize anyway. i knew that was the case because you had posted it and it was stupid of me to forget.
all respects to her sir and my most humble apologies.
88
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
As to your choice of moderators, I see some good names, and I laugh at the rest...I mean come on, Mini-Dork has been banned as least once from this BBS for venting some 4-letter words on a couple of hapless posters, he was given a temporary time out! LePaul has his own BBS that he lets pollution troll around on.(It is where alot of turds that get booted from here float around on...)
Seem to recall Ripsnort is a regular there too.
Hmm. Pot, kettle again.
Funny how anyone you disagree with is "pollution".
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I would think the following would make good mods...
Captain Virgil Hilts
DeadManFlying
Gypsy Baron (the AW one)
LePaul
Maverick
Saintaw
Silat
Toad
All exhibit maturity, and all seem to maintain a balanced head in regards to the discussions even when they disagree with the poster's content.
Sorry Nilsen, but you have too many inebriated moments on this board ;)
Ohh, and I agree that the nonHTC mods should only be able to lock and edit... no bans... that needs to be handled by Skuzzy or other HTC staff.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Sorry Nilsen, but you have too many inebriated moments on this board ;)
meh.. youre prolly right :)
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Originally posted by JB88
well, i apologize anyway. i knew that was the case because you had posted it and it was stupid of me to forget.
all respects to her sir and my most humble apologies.
88
nah.. my bad for bringing it up in the first place..
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I would think the following would make good mods... All exhibit maturity
LOL! Like that's in keeping with the O'Club. ;):lol
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Thanks Skuzzy.
Never meant to cause offense.
Guys Just for Info my game ID is Redfist hence the Redfist that appears in my avatar. Thought I might as well explain that one!
Ok I'll shut up for a bit;) Bedtime.
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Hello All,
Just got back in from Chattanooga (man, if I saw one more reference to "Choo-Choo") so I have a LOT of messages to read through. I was really chuffed to see the O Club back in action, thanks HT.
While I am honored and frankly surprised that I got so many votes for moderator, I'd need to give it some serious thought.
There is no way I could do it solo, I have way to many responsibilities, and not enough time as it is. So I guess if I was asked to be mod, if I accepted it would have to be with the following humbly submitted provisos:
1) That there be multiple moderators
2) That the Rules (or constitution if we are using the "birth of a nation" idea) of the O'Club be spelled out in full and fleshed out with examples. As it stands, I am seriously vague on what constitutes an infraction of the rules as applied to the O'Club. Occasionally (and I know this isn't Skuzzy's fault) it seems like the rules are applied in a haphazard manner.
3) Truthfully, I'm more of a player than a ref, the third provisos would be that the moderators be allowed to continue to post - although I admit this inevitably produces a conflict of interest.
4) That I get 2,000,000 fighter and vehicle perkies [ok so #4 is negotiable]
- SEAGOON
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no way I would let my mom post neilsen... she is mean and vitriholic... It is amazing that I came out such an empathetic and sensitive person.
lazs
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Yeah. I picture you as a teletubby..
..packing a S&W
Dinky Winky Boom Boom
;)
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I picture Lazs as the host of Auto Maniac. I love the commercial where granny says, "I ain't gonna tell you, you thick necked tree trunk. I'm gonna show ya." I think of Lazs every time I see that commercial.
:D
Les
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I would like to throw my name in the hat as a volunteer to moderate. I view the O'club daily and feel I could make a positive contribution to the moderator team.
With a forum for only moderators they could also communicate on tough calls. It could be another positive side to the issue. Moderators should not be anonymous.
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You people that want to be mods have no idea the headaches you are in for.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Yeah. I picture you as a teletubby..
..packing a S&W
Dinky Winky Boom Boom
;)
(http://hotlinktrackerv20.wimp.com/p/teletubbies.jpg)
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I still haven't figured out if having a sense of humor would be a good thing or a bad thing for the new kinder and gentler BB.
lazs
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Humor is good!
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well... there is humor and then there is humor.. listening to little kids is one form... Having to listen to devout christians is another.. Both crack themselves up. each group has a different set of guidlines that they follow as to what is funny or even permissable.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Having to listen to devout christians is another.. Both crack themselves up.
define "devout christians"
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I have already told HTC and I will tell all of you...
I don't care how nicely you ask me, I simply refuse to be a moderator.
So stop sending me emails. That means you too Skuzzy and Dale. Stop it.
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Originally posted by Sox62
You people that want to be mods have no idea the headaches you are in for.
there is nothing more dangerous than a little person with a lot of power...
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I'd say the bottomline criteria is just two points:
1) Everyone (as much as possible) is kept happy (i.e. under the complaint email threshold)
2) HTC's business isn't affected negatively
Both independent of politics/religion/sex.
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Originally posted by Sox62
You people that want to be mods have no idea the headaches you are in for.
I have been for the last two years reading, contributing to, and enjoying the O’club forum. I have not been interested in the threads that depart from the nature of rules set forth by HTC. I generally skim over the flames until I get back on topic.
I enjoy helping out when I can. And yes being a moderator would be a headache but one that should be completely understood by anyone who has volunteered and/or accepts the role. It is my hope that it will keep the O’club open and a more enjoyable place to hang out and have intelligent conversation.
Originally posted by Shane
there is nothing more dangerous than a little person with a lot of power...
Agreed...
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Originally posted by Shane
there is nothing more dangerous than a little person with a lot of power...
unless it's REAL ULMTIMATE POWER! (http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm)
(http://www.realultimatepower.net/ninja/ninjaparty.jpg)
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Now THAT is the chit.
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hey, don't make fun of ninjas, they will flip out and start cutting off heads.
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just my 2 cents woth her about the mod votes:
Look for the ones who game habits have been mild, ie, no whining- argueing etc as well as good sportsmanship, mild manored - one who also doesnt pay much attention to chan 200 etc
#2 doesnt come accross as a politician with an ego base for the position....egos are very destructive.
#3Must be fair minded and somewhat educated as well as patient.
etc
etc
etc
Just started lookin at game again so work with me:)
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While I happened to miss the O'Club getting shut down due to dealing with severe technical issues on my comp (posting from my wifes comp), I do sincerely hope that I was never a contributor to the problems that lead to the O'Club being shut down. If I was a contributor, it was never my intention to do so and I offer my apologies.
I always tryed to discuss things civilly and with respect to the other posters. Sometimes I can be a bit dense and someone else's point may not become clear to me until later. Like the thread where Silat posted a Webster's definition of a cult, and for some reason I took it as a list of qualifying factors, (it was late and I was very tired, shoulda waited to respond until the next day) when I realized my mistake I was like.....DOH! DOH!! DOH!! :rofl
For the most part I have enjoyed the off topic discussions here, including the threads on politics, religion, gun control etc etc. I have learned many things here including how to Google :D
Dunno how you guys would feel about me being a moderator, but I would volunteer to help out with this if it means we can keep the O'Club. I understand that my migraines may be more frequent and more severe, but if it contributes to a kinder and gentler O'Club then it just may be worth it :)
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Looks like anonymous moderation has been activated, with moderation accounts to preserve anonymity.
I for one, welcome our new, moderating overlords. :D
The MP setup sounds perfect for this group.
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Well looks like I'm the 1st subject of MP editing. I'd like to apologuise for the offense as malice was not intended. I do question the method used. Deleting the entire news story and not just my 2 line comment that was suppossed to be a joke. I thought I had selfmoderated the language to a PG-13 level. I realise we are still in the early stages and it is a huge learning curve on the part of all parties.
Still, I would have bet huge amounts of cash that I would'nt have been numero uno. to the Mod Squad.
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Hi Guys,
Just so there is no speculation, especially in religious threads, I am not, I repeat not one of the moderators.
May God grant our new umpires wisdom and patience - they'll need it.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Guys,
Just so there is no speculation, especially in religious threads, I am not, I repeat not one of the moderators.
- SEAGOON
Yeah, yeah... sure thing. ;)
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Sandman,
Given the grief these guys are going to get, I'm willing to solemnly swear before God that I'm not one of them. To quote the song:
"It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no no no, It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate son, no no no..."
I get enough grief in my daily work and owing to my wonky postings.
Nope, I'm chicken enough to not want to be in the universally hated ref category.
Hmmm... but... what about you? VE VILL HAVE ZE ANSWERS VE VANT Mr. So-called Sandman, or should we say "SandMPan?"
- SEAGOON
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Wow, I hit the Daily Double. 2 threads in 1 day. Guess I need to re-evaluate my self editing.
Just a question for future reference, and I'll direct it to Skuzzy so as not to attempt to sniff out the secret identities of the Mod Squad. Since my previous method of bleeping/editing harsh language is not acceptable, is Beetle Bailey style (i.e. #&*!) acceptable? It is used in the Sunday Funnies that are targeted towards children.
I'm being serious here and not antagonistic.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Sandman,
Given the grief these guys are going to get, I'm willing to solemnly swear before God that I'm not one of them. To quote the song:
"It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no no no, It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate son, no no no..."
I get enough grief in my daily work and owing to my wonky postings.
Nope, I'm chicken enough to not want to be in the universally hated ref category.
Hmmm... but... what about you? VE VILL HAVE ZE ANSWERS VE VANT Mr. So-called Sandman, or should we say "SandMPan?"
- SEAGOON
Methinks the man doth protest too much. ;)
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Since we're using lyrics here....
You say you're lookin' for someone
Never weak but always strong,
To protect you an' defend you
Whether you are right or wrong,
Someone to open each and every door,
But it ain't me, babe,
No, no, no, it ain't me, babe,
It ain't me you're lookin' for, babe.
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I only got one nomination, by Bodhi, so I never figured I'd be on the list, never mind the short list, or making the cut. So, rest assured, Hilts ain't no moderator. That is probably a good thing, I'm figure my personal faults would make me of questionable value.
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(http://www.actorslife.com/images/Stalag17.jpg)
"C'mon Shultzie. Who's the mole?"
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Originally posted by Sandman
Doh... Gunslinger would be good also.
thanks :aok
I don't know why I didn't see this the first time :cool:
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Announcement from the Administration:
(http://members.dslextreme.com/users/markpoyser/uggabugga/2003/i-know-nothing.gif)
...and you shouldn't either.
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LOL
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See rule #6
last warning
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See rule #6
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Seems house cleaning is in order. Don't like the rules? Leave. Do not expect respect if you give nothing but disrespect.