Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Steve on June 16, 2005, 06:39:10 PM
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Installed the headers last night. Need to finish exhaust, nitrous, charge AC, install TC lock up kit, then off to the body shop!
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/54_1118959200_img_0083.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/54_1118959233_img_0084.jpg)
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The new engine looks great Steve.
I don't know how it is in AZ but here it is and unwritten law with a new stroker motor you have to drive it 3 days on open headers.
Robert
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Lol Robert, thanks. I will have it on open headers for today and onthe way to the exhaust tomorrow.....hope I"m not breakin any lasw.
:cool:
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Steve, looking good. I need to come over and check that out.
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Sweet Steve!!!
I dropped an LT1 into a '69 Camero....It's the reason I'm going blind now....
Torque Rules!!!
:aok
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Thanks Mac, you still have the camaro?
Thanks Nuke.. it goes to the exhaust shop tomorrow. 2 1/2" all the way back to the mufflers, exhaust cut outs and no cats!
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A MOPAR powered Vette? Won't the GM gods strike you dead or place a plague upon your family?
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There is nothing in my 'vette that has anything to do w/ Mopar.
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Steve - what are "headers"? I'm thinking that the British word, along with many others to do with cars, is different.
And... what will be the fuel consumption of that thing? Will it be any more than 8mpg? I've just been hearing about global warming... and America's refusal to comply with the Kyoto agreement. But hey, America needs cars with 383 cu in engines, and could not survive without them! ;)
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Look good .
i wouldnt bother w/ the cut outs .. a good free flowing set of mufflers will be fine
dynomax,flowmasters , the hooker aero chambers are good but alittle large for stuffin in a vette.
edelbrock also makes a straight thru packed muffler that doesnt sound too bad.
be shure they use the thick flanges and flair n weld to the pipe .
(i still do a custom header builds and a few exhaust jobs )
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I also thought a 383 V8 was a Chrysler product. Seems to me I worked with a guy in high school who had a Dodge Fury w/ a 383 in it.
Beetle, its one guy, not all of America. Lots of guys here have a passion here for muscle cars, which are usually on the older side. Buts its a tiny fraction of the driving public. Should we no longer restore and fly WWII aircraft because their engines aren't as efficient as modern engines?
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PALM BEACH, Fla., - March 21, 2005 – The Barrett-Jackson Auction Company will auction a 450 horse power small block Chevy 383 V8 donated by the Engine Factory during the 3rd Annual Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach Collector Car Auction scheduled from March 31, 2005 – April 3, 2005.
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well put oboe...
steve... are those hooker block huggers? I had to put those same ones on the Healey last time and still had to cut and weld the crap outta em to get em to work.
lazs
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oboe - fine. I'll just wait for the gas price whine thread to start! :p
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Holden, I must insist that you take that avatar down of my love interest "Ms Perfect prettythang". In the event that you do not do that, I must counter you with this:(http://www.tuningfever.com/albums/userpics/10171/thumb_keyra_agustina_02_003.jpg)
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a 383 cu chev is a 350 w/a 400 crankshaft.
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
a 383 cu chev is a 350 w/a 400 crankshaft.
Ah, that explains it. I had never in my life heard of a GM 383. My Dad had a '66 Plymouth Sport Fury with a 383 Commando. Very strong motor.
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You can buy a "crate" 383 chevy engine right from GM now. Most of the 383's people build are nothing more than a 350 with a 400 crank but there are other combos including destroked 400 small blocks.
lazs
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Lazs, they might be block huggers.. I really don't know. They weren't called block huggers in the summitt catalogue. They were called... umm oh ya... Super competition headers. They make those, fortunately for me, specifically for my car. It was a PITA getting them in but I didn't have to do any cuttin/welding.
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I looked at the crate chevy motor as well but it used short rods and they were hyper instead of forged. Friends advised me that this motor might not hold up to heavy loads of sauce.
I ended up building a much stronger motor for about the same price plus I used my orignal block so, if I ever sell it, I can still say "all numbers match".
Thanks for the advice Rosco... I'm goin w/ Flowmasters.
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Beet, headers are exhaust manifolds that are designed to allow for ideal airflow. This allows the engine to breathe better, producing more horsepower.*
* experts, feel free to chime in if my definition is inaccurate.
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And... what will be the fuel consumption of that thing? Will it be any more than 8mpg?
I think it will get about 12 to 15 MPG.(It's a pretty light car). I won't ever know though because I don't care. I also don't care/believe in global warming(as far as man having a major influence).
Finally, I don't care about gas prices either, as long as it's available.
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Originally posted by Steve
Beet, headers are exhaust manifolds that are designed to allow for ideal airflow. This allows the engine to breathe better, producing more horsepower.
Ah! Well why didn't you say exhaust manifolds! Now I know what you're talking about, are yours of a certain shape to allow more rapid outflow? Polished ports and all that?
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when we say exhaust manifolds we all see these heavy cast iron ... very few flow decient junk .. Headers is a 15-35 hp gain on a stock v-8 ussually . and as long as you buy a quality set they seldom have problems .
I myself make my own flanges and adapter plates for all the headers i build .
(i even was autherized to build race headers for hooker years ago ) but my headers arnt cheap .. i just finished a set for a 3 ltr v-6 thats droped into a MR2 w/ out being coated they cost the guy 580.00
but there also built in a way that he can install a turbo later if he wants to .
my v-8 race headers steped ,clocked, built full tilt are 1000+ and they ussually gain 5+ hp on the pro stock cars over most of the other guys . (probly because I Argon purge the tubes when welding them)
On the big car show nights up here I can say that close to 40% of the cars that show up have had my hands on there exhaust , roollbars , and other mods from back halfs ect...
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are yours of a certain shape to allow more rapid outflow? Polished ports and all that?
Well the ports in my heads are polished, yes. but there is a difference between heads and headers.
Rosco or lazs, explain about tube curves, same length tubes for all cylinders, long tubes and stuff like that please. I am confident that you would do a much better job than I.
Rosco, maybe I should have gotten a set from you. I paid $559.00 for my headers.
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Oh ya., rosco: The cut outs aren't for performance really. They are for setting off other car alarms, and assisting my stereo in drowning out the rap music emanating from the ricer's cars.
:D
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Your running the dart 2 heads on your 383 ? the non spacer plate ones from what i see in the pic's which is ok .
the secret of good headers is amount of bends vs tube lenth vs size . For my 383 thats in my chevelle wag . ive got 1 3/4's primarys that are 24-26 inches long with 9 inch collectors .... then i added 10 inches of 3 inch to give me a tuned collector then i steped it down to 2 1/2 inch thru a set of dynomax flowthru mufflers then out in the stock location . now this is a mild stroker and grocery/kid hauler mostly . but with the 700r4 and 3.73 gears on 28 inch slicks it ran a 12.86 just babyin it, no nitrous and pump gas . not real fast but not to shabby for a car that gets 19-21 mpg ...
For your set up id probely go with 1 7/8's or 2 inch primarys . and perhaps 3 inch to the mufflers then 2 1/2 or 2 3/4's tails on it the tails will keep the noise level respectable and the 3 inch will give it low pressure for faster r's ... exspecially when you hit the n20. For extreame go
with 2 1/4 primarys but the bottem end "pull" starts to drop out and the milage goes in the gutter around this size.
i did a 71 chevelle this way and it turns 9.90's with turn downs after the mufflers , and 10.20's/.30's with the 2 1/2 tail pipes on . 2-3 tenths of a sec diff with that much tailpipe isnt too bad .
as for ported / polished heads .. polish on the exhaust side .. match porting is a must . for the intake i ussually match port the intake and just polish the bowls ... most of the new alum heads are nicly done and need just alittle work to make great performers .
now long tube vs short tube ..
Long tube,
ok emagine a bunch of pulses of pressure going thru a pipe .. you try to keep them even the longest so they stay smooth ... now add 3 more pulses (this is what we call clocking a collector) we try to bring them in evenly and get a timed spiral flow thru the collector so it will increase speed by going into a low pressure area . (this causes the pipe to scavage ) this creates faster rpm in the engine buy pulling the exhaust out of the head ports . see less work for the engine.
hard Bends will vary the speed of the pulses thats why we make them shorter lenth primarys (it takes tons of trials to get what lenth is right or wrong)
Short tubes ...
these are great for limited space and do increase power , but they dont have the ability to scavage like long tubes will because the timing /clocking and long collector just isnt there..
Hope i explained this well enough for you all to understand ... i tried to keep it simple but i kinda think backwards sometimes .
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Lookin good Steve!! When u gonna post up some pics of the whole car??
Geary
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header theory is extensive.. rosco didn't say anthing that is not correct.. but..
In most street applications... the headers available will all make about the same HP when hooked up to a street exhaust system.. 15-40 hp is about reasonable to expect out of the entire package..
Big blocks probly (99% of the time) gain a little more than small blocks.
I run dynomax... I am kinda tired of hearing "that flowmaster sound" from every new pickup that goes by. I do run two chamber flowmasters on the Healey but they don't sound anthing like what you know as "that flowmaster sound".
Friend of mine who ownes a shop ran 3 sets of headers and mufflers on his Chevelle and he dynoed every set.. there was probly more difference in the HP readings caused by outside air temp than by the different headers..
lazs
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Bah.. forget it. I cant link it safely sorry Rightfoot..
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Originally posted by Steve
I looked at the crate chevy motor as well but it used short rods and they were hyper instead of forged. Friends advised me that this motor might not hold up to heavy loads of sauce.
I ended up building a much stronger motor for about the same price plus I used my orignal block so, if I ever sell it, I can still say "all numbers match".
Thanks for the advice Rosco... I'm goin w/ Flowmasters.
Nice steve. Forged is the only way to fly if your going to spray it or if its going to see any boost. On one of my first motors when I was younger, still in high school and couldnt afford a nice forged rotating assy I went with hypereutectic. Alot cheaper, still strong through...to a point. In a 351windsor i was spraying it with a 175 shot and it was holding up. It wasnt until I turned it up to 200 that I finally melted a piston. After that, I made it a point to only use forged parts, and to wait if I couldnt afford them right away.
The crate motors from GM cost alot for what you get. Its the same way with Ford. And like you said, you can build a much stronger motor for the same price or less.
Looks nice man. Cant wait to see it when its done.
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wheeeeeeeeeeeee! I was on vacation for 3 weeks in Northern Wisconsin. Bought 1.5 acres w/ 100' of frontage on a nice sand lake near Minocqua to go w/ our property on white sand lake.
Thanks for all the info guys. I'm currently having the 700r4 rebuilt to handle the twist from the new motor and the vette itself is in the shop for paint. Can't wait to get it back but it's been so hot here (115 or more) thati wouldn't drive it anyway.
Rosco, I believe the heads are Pro 1's.
That flowmaster sound... I notice a lot of pickups have a sound similar... never thought of it that way heheh. I put two stage mufflers on the car. Honestly, it seemed a little too loud but I've only driven it about 20 miles(muffler shop-home-bodyshop) since getting it set up.
How much will 3 stage mufflers hurt me?
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Steve,
WRAP THOSE DAMN PIPES!
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Wrap them.... the headers?
I've heard some people do this... is this to keep heat out of the engine compartment?
The headers are ceramic coated. Drove several miles w/ a spark plug wire resting on them, didn't even discolor the wire... cool stuff.
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flowmasters are ok . but everyone has them (i used to stock them 50-100 pr at a time) .. the 3 stage would of been quieter . but then so is some sort of resonator (small glass pack) installed takes alot of the rumble out.
the trick with 3 stage style mufflers that i do is use the 2 1/2's for 3 inch apps and trim them off so the 3in enters/exits nicely
(shorter muffler body )
you guys woulda drooled on what i had my paws on today .. '65 shelby gt 350 (yes a real one)
ive been installing alot of imco's lately there a really heavy excellent quality muffler that are cross between a turbo and flowmaster in sound .
edit .... Dont you dare rap them headers ... I'll personally road trip my arse down there and break your joystick .. the rap wrecks any header within 2 yrs
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Using heat resistant tape like "Thermo-Tec" in headers will A)Keep temperature lower under your hood and B) keep exhaust gasses hot.
When exhaust gasses cool down they "shrink" and lose speed/momentum and aren't helping engine to pump out exhaust gasses from cylinders = engine doesn't "breath" as well as it could.
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What are imco's? I use dynomax mufflers and they seem to work out... 2 chamber flowmasters on the Healey tho. 2 chamber are pretty loud..
so steve... you have an autromatic trans in a vette? Not sure I get it... you take a vette and with it's weak IRS and lousy weight transfer and low stance and.... hot rod it to be very loud and spray it with nitrous and then.... use an automatic trans?
If you wanted a quarter horse you picked the worst car you could... if you wanted a sports car... well.. hard to drive sporty with an auto and dragstrip susspension and nitrous right? a camaro woulda been better I would think or even an older sedan.
lazs
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Steve,
Staga hit the nail on the head.
It is totally worth it, I will get you a number for some good exhaust wraps later today.
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hard to drive sporty with an auto and dragstrip susspension and nitrous right? a camaro woulda been better I would think
I honestly dunno what dragstrip suspension is, or IRS. Please educate me, Lazs.
Some argue that unless you are a complete shifting expert(when drag racing) that having a solid Auto is actually better. As for the Nitrous: Well the motor is pretty strong on it's own. If I were to go for some "spirited" road driving the Nitrous would be shut off.
As for it being hot-rodded to be loud... I think it's probably too loud and that I'll tone it down some. I'm not looking to be obnoxious on the road.
I think a camaro would have been better too. I'll take a '69 , please! *
*already had the vette.
Wrapping headers... I think that by having ceramic coated headers that wrapping them would be redundant. Those w/ knowledge please chime in.
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IRS = Independent Rear Suspension
Vettes IRS is not known for being the most robust rear end around. They have a tendency to torque steer. The more horses under the hood, the worse the condition gets. It also allows a lot of body twist.
Pretty easy to twist up a Vette with the stock IRS and a high ouput motor.
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Originally posted by Steve
Some argue that unless you are a complete shifting expert(when drag racing) that having a solid Auto is actually better.
I know a couple Supra guys that think that way, saying they gain almost a car length when the other guy shifts. Downside is finding a TC that can handle it. There's an 800hp single-turbo (no spray) I've ridden in that will explode its torque converter if the tires chirp. Very fast & scary though once its off the line & not broken.
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cermatic coated headers
1st it lowers the temp radiating off of them
2nd it takes the ole header ping noise out of them
3rd they cool down alot quicker
4th they dont rust out and stay looking good (if they dont get rock chiped ,or discolored from fluids)
thermal wrap
1st it retains heat inside and bakes the header
2nd the glue reacts badly w/ the heat
3rd it turns into a moisture trap and rusts out the header really fast
on your vette yes it has irs and it works really good in most conditions . its only limitation can be fine tuning because of the mono fiberglass leaf spring .
Dont worrie Steve it will be fine . ive been all over that type of vette with a "huge" hp stroker in it (est 750hp) and the car holds up and performs nicely.
Btw you want a drag car ???
'69 Camaro ???
Man i have the car for you .. an original 427 car .. fully chassied , caged , 4 link, anti roll bar,mustang 2 front end w/rack, set up for a big block and lenco.
still a roller ,,alll it needs is eng and trans. Quickest ET was 7.51 at 189 mph w/a 1200hp big block and 4 speed.
this car was a former Pro stock car from day one and was originally converted back in '69
email me and i'll tell ya how many $$$
i've got a pic or two of it somewere ...
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oh yea here Laz
http://www.imcoweb.com/products/Performance-Line/Performance%20Mufflers.htm (http://www.imcoweb.com/products/Performance-Line/Performance%20Mufflers.htm)
They're really nice mufflers if you were wanting a different sound besides flowmasters.
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I've heard stories about guys who got oil on their thermal wraps(soaked in) .... then had a fire. Urban myth?
Skuzzy, thanks for the info. I'm going to put a dana 44 in the rear end if/when I destroy the current one. I'm only going to race... very infrequently. I like vettes, always wanted a hot rod. Like Lazs said, it's far from the ideal 1/4 horse but it satisfies two needs. If I race and become addicted, I'll buy an old camaro/chevelle and really get serious. For now, I'm just a vette enthusiast who likes hotrods.
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Enjoy what ya drive and drive what ya like.
People made fun of me when I dropped in a 9500rpm 289 in my 68 Falcon station wagon (High School ride), with a cross-boss manifold, 8 single-throated Webers on top, 4 speed top loader, a rear end from a Boss 302, front sway bar from a 67 Shelby.
They laughed until I stood on the pedal. Always made me grin.
You'll do well with that Dana. Just need to lock down the tires so they do not jounce around on ya. What kind of rear rubber you running?
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why would anyone laugh at a falcon wagon... just like a mustang but with better weight distribution.
I agree that an auto is probly a little faster in the quarter everything else being the same and... for sure more consistent... they just aren't any fun and... A vette should be fun... for me anyhow.
lazs
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What kind of rear rubber you running?
For the road I have 315/35/17 Eagle F1 GS D3's on 17X11" rims on the back. For the track I spose I'll get those DOT drag radials, probably on smaller rims. I'll not race very often, unless I really enjoy it. :)
People made fun of me when I dropped in a 9500rpm 289 in my 68 Falcon station wagon (High School ride), with a cross-boss manifold, 8 single-throated Webers on top, 4 speed top loader, a rear end from a Boss 302, front sway bar from a 67 Shelby.
I always get a kick out of seeing someone take their favorite non F body car and turn it into a hot rod. Often see some real creative stuff in these "other" cars. I wouldn't have laughed, I would have "oooed and ahhhed".
It's why I like hearing about cars like Lazs's Elky and Healey
Lazs, I'm hoping to get the car into the 11's. It may be an auto, but an 11 sec car that can pull a 1.0 on the skid pad sounds like fun to me.
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steve... I am sure that I would enjoy it myself. I just want a stick in the car I drive around. We have mountains and curves and stuff and back roads... I enjoy controling the selection of gears.
I guess I am too old to really get behind a sports car... a car that can carve corners at anything like 1 g... at one of those cars having a slush box in it.
Every modified car that I have ever had that had an auto in it... I at one time or another wished it had a stick. I never wished a stick car had an auto in it.
lazs
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I wish I still have my 91 GMC Sonoma with LT1. I loved smoking the local rice burners.
Couldnt agree with you more on the comments about the IRS suspension and tourque steer skuzzy. My brother had a juiced vette and he would get bent out of shape everytime he hit the button. Sure was fun to watch but a bizzle to drive.