Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: schizer on June 16, 2005, 09:15:17 PM
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She's a looker as well
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/06/16/woman.thunderbird/story.malachowski.usaf.jpg)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/16/woman.thunderbird/index.html
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What a great story! Good for her
Capt. Nicole Malachowski
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She'd have to be a kick bellybutton pilot to get the respect and confidence of the other team members. Hope it works out...
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I'd hit it! and the Thunderbirds are in town this week too, do you think she likes beer :)
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She isn't the first woman in the thunderbirds.
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Originally posted by Yeager
What a great story! Good for her Capt. Nicole Malachowski
Tell me... does this give you a chubby as well?
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Originally posted by Suave
She isn't the first woman in the thunderbirds.
hmmm...
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Just weeks after a high-profile debate about the role of women in the military, the Air Force is putting a woman in one of its most prestigious and high-profile jobs. Capt. Nicole Malachowski has been named the first woman pilot in the Air Force's world-famous Thunderbirds demonstration squadron.
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In other miltary women news:
First woman receives Silver Star since WWII (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050616/ap_on_re_us/woman_silver_star;_ylt=AgpsoTWxY06xl.QxVPhaRDms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2M2YzbmJmBHNlYwN1cw--)
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Yeah I noticed that too sandman. It's funny, you would think one of the other woman pilots who were in the thunderbirds before she was would've been named "first woman pilot in thunderbirds". Just can't trust what you read anymore.
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I was stationed with her. Good to see not only a woman but an F-15 pilot get into the Thunderbirds.
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Originally posted by Suave
Yeah I noticed that too sandman. It's funny, you would think one of the other woman pilots who were in the thunderbirds before she was would've been named "first woman pilot in thunderbirds". Just can't trust what you read anymore.
The following is an official USAF press release, do you have more credible info?
culero
PRESS RELEASE -- Secretary of the Air Force, Office of Public Affairs
Release No. 070605
June 16, 2005
Thunderbirds' first female pilot announced with new 2006 pilots
NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. - The U.S. Air Force Air Demonstration Squadron, "Thunderbirds," have announced their new pilots for the 2006 demonstration season which includes the first female demonstration pilot in the 52-year history of the Thunderbirds.
Leading the team as Thunderbird no. 1, commander/leader, will be Lt. Col. Kevin Robbins, currently assigned to Air Force Weapons School, Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada.
Joining the Thunderbirds in the no. 3 right wing position will be Capt. Nicole Malachowski, currently assigned to the 494th Fighter Squadron, RAF Lakenheath, United Kingdom. Captain Malachowski will turn a new page in history as the first female demonstration pilot on a U.S. military high performance jet team.
The 2006 no. 6 pilot, flying the opposing solo position, will be Capt. Ed Casey, currently assigned to the 56th Training Squadron, Luke Air Force Base, Ariz.
The new advance pilot/narrator, Thunderbird no. 8, the voice of the Thunderbirds, will be Capt. Tad Clark, currently assigned to the 52nd Operations Support Squadron, Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany.
Returning members of the 2005 team who will round out the 2006 team include: Maj. Rusty Keen, Thunderbird No. 2, left wing; Maj. Steve Horton, Thunderbird No. 4, Slot; Maj. Brian Farrar, Thunderbird No. 5, lead solo; Maj. Jeremy Sloane, Thunderbird No. 7, Operations Officer; Capt. Todd Randolph, Thunderbird No. 10, Executive Officer; and Capt. Angela Johnson, Thunderbird No. 12, Public Affairs Officer. The team is also in the process of interviewing a new Thunderbird No. 9, the Flight Surgeon and a new Thunderbird No. 11, the Maintenance Officer.
The U.S. Air Force Air Demonstration Squadron is an Air Combat Command unit comprised of eight pilots (including six demonstration pilots), four support officers, four civilians and about 120 enlisted Airmen performing in more than 29 career specialties.
A Thunderbirds' demonstration is a mix of six aircraft, performing formation flying and solo routines. The four-aircraft diamond formation demonstrates the training and precision of Air Force pilots, while the solos highlight the maximum capabilities of the Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon.
The team's first performance was June 8, 1953 at Luke Air Force Base, Ariz. Since then, the Thunderbirds have flown before more than 310 million people at 3,944 air demonstrations in all 50 states and more than 60 foreign countries.
For more information, contact a member of the Thunderbirds' Public Affairs staff at (702)652-9902; (702)652-7200 or (702)378-7951.
Try these U.S. Air Force news products:
Air Force Report -- daily 1-minute TV news from around the Air Force, produced Monday through Friday.
Airman Magazine -- a monthly magazine of in-depth news and features showcasing America's Air Force.
Around the Air Force Television -- daily 4.5-minute TV newscast.
Around the Air Force Radio -- daily 5-minute radio newcast produced Monday through Friday.
Air Force Policy Letter Digest -- policy news from throughout the Air Force.
Air Force Press Releases -- news releases on current Air Force issues and events.
You are currently subscribed to af_pressrelease as: kmyers@sc2000.net. If you wish to cancel your subscription at anytime, simply send a blank e-mail to leave-af_pressrelease-313631R@mercury.afnews.af.mil or point your browser to http://www.af.mil/subscribe/
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Oh sure... they can fly fighters and kill bad guys and clear trenches... but don't let 'em vote! Huh lazs?
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Yeah culero, notice in that article they stress the term demonstration pilot. I'm glad the airforce set it straight. The mainstream news media makes it sound like there's never been a female in the thunderbirds, let alone a female that could fly a plane.
Has there ever been a time in the last 15 years when the thunderbirds didn't have women on the team ?
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Amazing how photogenic all these army gals are.........probably just coincidence..right?
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Where did you find photogenic army gals ?
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It's like in 94 when korea was heating up. The big news story was that the US was going to deploy patriot batteries to the penninsula for the first time evar. People who had been in 2ID and 8th army over there were like, "yeah, first time this year I think they mean".
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Originally posted by Schaden
Amazing how photogenic all these army gals are.........probably just coincidence..right?
Air Force big guy. Not army.
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Ahhh this would explain it then....
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Originally posted by Suave
Yeah culero, notice in that article they stress the term demonstration pilot. I'm glad the airforce set it straight. The mainstream news media makes it sound like there's never been a female in the thunderbirds, let alone a female that could fly a plane.
Has there ever been a time in the last 15 years when the thunderbirds didn't have women on the team ?
Well, Suave, its like this: in the minds of most folks, "Thunderbirds" = the team you see flying demonstrations.
I do take your point (that there's a larger team involved) but IMO what you are arguing is akin to a semantic quibble.
Would you take "Green Bay Packer" to mean a football player, or would you insist that everybody employed by the organization should be referred to in that way?
culero
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Well it's not the most gracious admission of defeat I've ever extracted but I'll take it.
Frankly speaking, you could do better culero, I'll expect more effort next time.
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"Oh sure... they can fly fighters and kill bad guys and clear trenches... but don't let 'em vote! Huh lazs?"
I don't really care if they fly fighter jets at home. I do not want to fight alongside them or be in any dangeous job alongside them. I don't think it is fair to our men to alow women in combat.
None of this of course has anything to do with letting them vote, my position on which, is clear and unchanged.
lazs
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I don't really care if they fly fighter jets at home. I do not want to fight alongside them or be in any dangeous job alongside them. I don't think it is fair to our men to alow women in combat
Lazs, why?
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I don't feel any diffrently than Laz does..
Look, we're all products of our conditioning.. upbringing, education, morals indoctrination begins at birth. In my generation women were 'different', by definition and dispostion we (males) were conditioned to react to the female not as an equal.
In a 'chips down' situation I'd be distracted no end by the presence of a woman in harms way.. this would endanger other folks unfairly; affect the snap-judgment and decision chain and likey disrupt or hinder (at best) the outcome.
Today, men are expected to treat women (by mandate and law) in society as 'equals'. The social taboo's have been lifted somewhat. I don't argue the point per se, I just recognize I'm unable to react correctly given the new ground rules in a hyper-critical situation.
Hence, I'd react very negatively to a woman foisted as an equal in my hypothetical combat squad. My Forebrain has all the PC symbology, my Hindbrain will never accept it.
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If a woman sits in the seat of a fighter, its because she earned it.
Period.
They dont give 10-20-30 ect Million dollar Jets to girls because they are worried about their image. Or are trying to be politically correct.
Get real.
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Your faith in the military's publicity and promotions department is laudable.
While I'm in agreement that she's no doubt a competent pilot and qualifed on the equipment to such a degree to recieve the posting, regardless of how you or I feel about it, the folks that will need to have the point proven to them are the other members of the Thunderbirds.
She'll either cut it, or they will weed her out.
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Its got nothing to do with faith.
From my own experience of how picky, hard, what a complete pain in the ass, it is to get into the AF acadamy, or even be considered... Whatever the rout she took to get to where she is right now... She worked like hell to get there. Thats not a theory of mine. The dont give anyone a free ride. Granted, some roads may be smoother for some than others. But there is no free passes handed out at the door... Or even before you get to the door.
The fact that she is a woman flying a jet has nothing to do with her abilities as a pilot or in combat. It may to you because you think its unfair... or that a male pilot would be better suited. If that were the case, another male candidate would have filled her slot for pilot training long before she ever got to where she's at now.
You're right. I do have faith, some faith in their decision making process and aproval process. When it comes down to who's a better pilot, who better abilities in the air and on the ground in desicion making, who is more well rounded than the next... there is no faking it. And they arent going to see a set of tits and say here's your free pass have a nice day.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Its got nothing to do with faith.
From my own experience of how picky, hard, what a complete pain in the ass, it is to get into the AF acadamy, or even be considered... Whatever the rout she took to get to where she is right now... She worked like hell to get there. Thats not a theory of mine. The dont give anyone a free ride. Granted, some roads may be smoother for some than others. But there is no free passes handed out at the door... Or even before you get to the door.
The fact that she is a woman flying a jet has nothing to do with her abilities as a pilot or in combat. It may to you because you think its unfair... or that a male pilot would be better suited. If that were the case, another male candidate would have filled her slot for pilot training long before she ever got to where she's at now.
You're right. I do have faith, some faith in their decision making process and aproval process. When it comes down to who's a better pilot, who better abilities in the air and on the ground in desicion making, who is more well rounded than the next... there is no faking it. And they arent going to see a set of tits and say here's your free pass have a nice day.
You seem to be laboring under some misconception regarding my judgement. Possibly you can dispense with the knee jerk PC womens equality diatribe and re-read what I've posted.
You asked 'why', I explained 'why'. I also explained that what goes though my old school brain is not compatible with todays military thinking regarding women in combat roles.. and why. I did not pass judgement on her suitability. On the other hand yer in some kinda rush to rubber stamp the Air Forces pick.. and I'm pointing out that the folks she's gonna have to fly with will make the ultimate decison on her suitability in that team.
We ALL appreciate the difficulties and hard work that goes into getting into a Military Cockpit... and nobody here but you seems to be implying she got there by any other means than hard work and dilligence.
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A few years ago, the F/A-18 test squadron out here had a woman pilot... LCDR, if I recall. She was EXTREMELY sharp.
I have no doubt in my mind that a woman can fly a fighter and do it well.
This is not to say that any woman could do it. Hell, there are plenty of men that couldn't either.
In the past, Hangtime was probably right. Anyone recall the woman that crashed an F-14? There were quite a few that had doubts about her ability, IIRC.
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Hultgren.
There isn't any doubt that there are some women that are military flyers that really shouldn't be doing that. I saw one of those when I was in, from the very first cadre through UPT.
OTOH, there are even more men that are military flyers that really shouldn't be doing that. ;)
Were some women flyers given "special treatment"? Yep. So were some men.
It happens. It's not the norm. It's life.
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You asked 'why', I explained 'why'. I also explained that what goes though my old school brain is not compatible with todays military thinking regarding women in combat roles.. and why. I did not pass judgement on her suitability. On the other hand yer in some kinda rush to rubber stamp the Air Forces pick.. and I'm pointing out that the folks she's gonna have to fly with will make the ultimate decison on her suitability in that team.
Did I really ask you why? I dont seem to remember asking you. Maybe you can direct me to where it was I said this.
But sinse you felt the need to comment, the very least you could do is back your opinion up with something substantial. Substantial is not, "I am an old timer with old timer opinions".
So far you have given me no solid evidence as to why a woman is not suited to fill the position of a combat fighter pilot. Neither has lazs. But he also has yet to respond.
What evidence to I need to give? None. Its all right in front of you. Why you think the Air Force is handing out meal tickets is your problem, and misguided assumption.
Yesterdays standards maybe? What were they? If you could give birth then you werent suited to fight in combat? Fly fighters? Fire a gun? What?
I would bet every last penny I have that 99% here, couldnt do what she does. What you said is disrespectful to not only to her, but to the Air Force as a whole.
But who am I to say right?
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Sandman,
Want me to pass along your... erm... "congratulations"? She works right across the street from my office.
For what it's worth, she's a good pilot and well respected in the squadrons.
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Originally posted by culero
...I do take your point (that there's a larger team involved) but IMO what you are arguing is akin to a semantic quibble...
Yeah, you try to sell that crap to a thunderbird.
My father was not a pilot, but he was a thunderbird.
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Eagl, tell her I said "Congrats!" if you see her and I look forward to watching her at an airshow.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Did I really ask you why? I dont seem to remember asking you. Maybe you can direct me to where it was I said this.
But sinse you felt the need to comment, the very least you could do is back your opinion up with something substantial. Substantial is not, "I am an old timer with old timer opinions".
So far you have given me no solid evidence as to why a woman is not suited to fill the position of a combat fighter pilot. Neither has lazs. But he also has yet to respond.
What evidence to I need to give? None. Its all right in front of you. Why you think the Air Force is handing out meal tickets is your problem, and misguided assumption.
Yesterdays standards maybe? What were they? If you could give birth then you werent suited to fight in combat? Fly fighters? Fire a gun? What?
I would bet every last penny I have that 99% here, couldnt do what she does. What you said is disrespectful to not only to her, but to the Air Force as a whole.
But who am I to say right?
That's right.. 'who are you to say'... the only accurate statement in the above post.
I've neither suggested that the AF is handing out meal tickets, disrespected the Captain or her accomplishment nor found fault with the reasoning behind her appointment.
I did attempt to explain why old guys like me clinch up with the prospect of women in Harms Way. Didn't say is was right, only WHY.
You either can't or won't open yer mind, as such; dissussion with you on the topic is pointless.
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Originally posted by eagl
Sandman,
Want me to pass along your... erm... "congratulations"? She works right across the street from my office.
For what it's worth, she's a good pilot and well respected in the squadrons.
Congrats to her!! I only have an inkling of an idea of how difficult it is just to get to be a fighter pilot in the USAF (there was a very brief "reality" type TV series showing four guys going through training to be F-15 pilots). I envy you all, .
Last time the Thunderbirds were here was two years ago I think. Sometimes it sucks to be waaay out here. I look forward to seeing them again.
mauser
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That's right.. 'who are you to say'... the only accurate statement in the above post.
If not me then who? eagl? Ok if he's not good enough then it couldnt have been the countless number of superior officers who she stood before? Could it?
None of what you say holds any water.
What am I saposed to say to...I also explained that what goes though my old school brain is not compatible with todays military thinking regarding women in combat roles..
other than to call it for the bullchit that it is?
I did attempt to explain why old guys like me clinch up with the prospect of women in Harms Way. Didn't say is was right, only WHY.
Yes, yes you did. What I took away from your "explanation" was that you're intimidated by a woman who has vastly superior abilities, those of which you lack.
Walk a mile in her shoes. Then you can come back here and tell me she doesnt have what it takes to fly a fighter. Oh wait.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
I was stationed with her. Good to see not only a woman but an F-15 pilot get into the Thunderbirds.
did you hit it? cause i would
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uh,, right. roofies?
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Morph, yer barking up an empty tree.
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eagl... be honest.. say you are flying in the thundrbirds and something goes wrong... you have to choose to crash into her plane or some guys... no other choice.
These guys are all volunteers tho... if they don't like it they can quit.
Not so with the military and combat. Like hang says.. we are conditioned to treat women a certain way (as it should be) or... maybe it is just instictual... either way..
they don't belong in combat where those kinds of things should not be a factor in the decision making.
lazs
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MALACHOWSKI, NICOLE M E
http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/offprom/CY04%20Promotion%20Boards/CY04A%20Major%20Line%20Sel%20M%20O.htm
She is in line for promotion to Major
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Lazs
To be honest, in the air it never comes up, even subconsciously. I've seen tapes of guys literally dying trying to save another guy, so having a girl up there doesn't change the equation especially after she's "proven herself" by going through the same training everyone else accomplishes.
I'm not sure how it works in the Army where you can actually SEE the other people, but when flying the training usually kicks in and overrides personal concerns. Those who can't leave their emotions in their lockers on the ground tend to wash out or get killed.
I worry more about some of the guys than I would about Capt Malachowski. I know she can handle herself. We have one set of flying rules, one set of standards, and we are extremely hard on ourselves about meeting and upholding the standards. That means that nobody gets any extra consideration for any reason. It's harsh and makes life pretty tough on those who struggle being as good as everyone else, but that's one of the things that separates our AF from the forces of some other nations.
Heck, my female cousin was a medic in her vehicle maintenance unit and after working with her awhile, they made her the standard driver for their "gunship" armored humvee. They didn't care that she was a girl, they just wanted the best driver behind the wheel of the vehicle that was the toughest to drive, the one that they'd count on when the shxt went down. I think most of the US military has adapted. That doesn't mean that given their choice the guys wouldn't follow their instincts and keep the women and children out of harm's way, but it means that they've learned (or been indoctrinated) to separate those feelings from their daily routine, to the point where for most troops it just doesn't matter anymore.
Besides, after you've gotten gunned mercilessly by a female weapons school grad a couple of times, you pretty much tend look to her for help instead of following a foolish and misplaced sense of chivalry by trying to watch out for her more than you would anyone else.
It's a tough world and in the end, maybe it helps to remember that there are some damn smart and tough women out there who volunteered to help defend our little part of the world.
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Originally posted by eagl
Sandman,
Want me to pass along your... erm... "congratulations"? She works right across the street from my office.
For what it's worth, she's a good pilot and well respected in the squadrons.
Sure... score me an 8x10 glossy while you're at it. ;)
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I am sure she will do fine or they will drop her.
Good for her for making it though.
Best part of this thread is Hangtimes point sailing so far over Morpeus's head he never even saw it.
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Hangtime,
Times have changed a bit. I'm from your generation and have similare reactions. The instinctive response to keep women and children from harms way is basic survival of the species. Allowing women to be slaughtered on the battel feild in the numbers we once did would mean species suicide. The human species can be rebuilt from a disaster as long as you have a handfull of males and large pool of females. We forget in these modern times that the source of our survival is our females.
War untill recently was a very physically violent affair. Now with technology ones mind and ability to use it in concert with the technology becomes the primary divider of the chaff from the wheat. Yes with technologies help in our new age style of warfare women are equal to men.
God forbid if we have another global war that decends back into the all consuming physical brutalality and casulties of previous centuries. Wars like that border on species survival and only a fool would suggest placing the species source of survival in harms way.
War is not some Politically Correct game of gender equality. We should really have warning bells going off in the animal part of our brains shouting at us that something is wrong in sending our femals off to die. When the war is over, who's left to make children? Seems like a dumb species survival strategy to me.
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Originally posted by Sandman
In the past, Hangtime was probably right. Anyone recall the woman that crashed an F-14? There were quite a few that had doubts about her ability, IIRC.
She was stationed here in San Diego. At first there was a lot of mud slinging on how she only became a pilot because she was one of the first females allowed to fly naval combat planes. That was until it was found out that her plane suffered catastrophic engine failure during her landing approach on the CV.
ack-ack
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I'll wear a crash helmet next time I see the T-birds perform.
oh yeah and
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Originally posted by bustr
Hangtime,
Times have changed a bit. I'm from your generation and have similare reactions. The instinctive response to keep women and children from harms way is basic survival of the species. Allowing women to be slaughtered on the battel feild in the numbers we once did would mean species suicide. The human species can be rebuilt from a disaster as long as you have a handfull of males and large pool of females. We forget in these modern times that the source of our survival is our females.
War untill recently was a very physically violent affair. Now with technology ones mind and ability to use it in concert with the technology becomes the primary divider of the chaff from the wheat. Yes with technologies help in our new age style of warfare women are equal to men.
God forbid if we have another global war that decends back into the all consuming physical brutalality and casulties of previous centuries. Wars like that border on species survival and only a fool would suggest placing the species source of survival in harms way.
War is not some Politically Correct game of gender equality. We should really have warning bells going off in the animal part of our brains shouting at us that something is wrong in sending our femals off to die. When the war is over, who's left to make children? Seems like a dumb species survival strategy to me.
I hear yah Bustr.. I have a daughter, 21 years old, and my ex-wife.. both demand 'equality' and from what I've seen regarding how tenacious they are when confronted with adversity, how brutally viscious they can be when their views are challenged I have no doubts that they should receve equal consideration with regards to fair treatment in the workplace and the body politic.
My brain know this.. yet I still move to open a door for 'em, and if anybody ever even looked like a threat to either of 'em (or any other woman in my view) I'd probably react with boneheaded 'caveman' hindbrain action. This 'gorilla' attitude has earned me my fair shir of bruised shins.. no matter; it's built in; was installed at childhood, and is not a function I'll ever easily or comfortably forstall.
It's 'social conditioning', drilled in our old heads by the social dynamics of the times we were reared in. Times have changed.. my grandkids will likely not have the knee-jerk reaction to close proximity females I came up with.. I know my kid does not simper and shy away from the stuff that made young girls squeal and cry when I was young. The Social landscape has changed.. somewhat.
Do I agree with it all.. women in combat, serving on ships, driving trucks into ambush zones? nah, not really. But I know I'm an antique.. and the facts say they can do it if trained for it.. just like the facts show I'm against it because i was trained differently.
Pilots have a saying "You Fight like you Train." Combat arms commanders have moved along from the R.Lee Ermy sterotype, today they deal with diffrent realities than I can grasp.. it ain't my Army anymore... the new kids in the field have tools I don't recognize, troops trained differently than I was trained and fight actions we never considered 'military' in scope when I served.
So.. I sit back and consider how I'd react to having a woman in my Squad and shudder... Todays squad leader just see's another body. I see a liability, the new leaders see just another troop... or they're censured and booted for non-conformity to current policy.
Tis the way of the world.. times change, the old folks shake their heads and rue some of it from the comfort of our rockers..
"dammit woman, where's my teeth?"
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
She was stationed here in San Diego. At first there was a lot of mud slinging on how she only became a pilot because she was one of the first females allowed to fly naval combat planes. That was until it was found out that her plane suffered catastrophic engine failure during her landing approach on the CV.
ack-ack
Then, I stand corrected.
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I never have heard the "straight" of Hultgren's accident.
The "bad pilot" story is out there along with the usual coverup allegations: http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3264
In October 1994, Lt. Kara Hultgreen was killed during an attempted landing of her F-14 on the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln. Femfeared (fear of feminists) Navy officials first re ported that engine failure caused the death of the Navy's first female F-14 pilot. That was a deliberate lie and coverup as later revealed in a leaked Mishap Investigation Report and the Navy's Judge Advocate General's report.
After three requests, under the Freedom of Information Act, the Center for Military Readiness recently obtained a 1995 report written by Admiral Lyle G. Bien. The report confirms special treatment for female F-14 pilots. It also confirms that Lt. Hultgren was retained in the F-14 training program and graduated to the fleet despite low scores and four major errors (Downs), two of which were similar to those made the day she died. Just one or two major Downs have been enough to send men packing.
Anyone got a copy or link to the reports this guy mentions?
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Aww c'mon culero. You're lack of response makes me think you might take me more seriously than even I do.
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Originally posted by Furious
Yeah, you try to sell that crap to a thunderbird.
My father was not a pilot, but he was a thunderbird.
Its not crap at all. Its simply the truth.
Try to wrap your pointy little head around the fact that what I'm saying here is that its understandable the media would report this as "First female T-Bird", because that's exactly how their audience will perceive this.
Communication is as much how what you say is understood as it is what you literally said. I could say "Your Mother", for instance, and many people would perceive it as an insult...even though I didn't actually utter an insult in any literal sense.
Are all members of the Thunderbirds team Thunderbirds?
In the minds of the members of the Thunderbirds team, and anyone who understands what it takes to support those performances, absolutely yes. I would agree that the TRUTH is here. Its just like car racing, for instance - in most peoples' minds, the driver gets all the credit, but the driver couldn't do squat without his crew.
But that group of people who understand this about the T-birds is probably...what would YOU guess?...maybe 1% of the target audience of the media story?
Be honest. In the minds of most of the people in this world who are even barely aware of the Thunderbirds, is there any awareness that there's a lot more to that show than the pretty planes zooming overhead and the gallant pile-its flying them?
I don't think so, hence my point. Most people seeing this story perceive "Thunderbird" to mean one of the pilots flying in the show, exactly as they perceive the name of any sports team to represent only the players on that team. That's why I don't find it remarkable that the media reported it the way they did.
culero
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Originally posted by Suave
Aww c'mon culero. You're lack of response makes me think you might take me more seriously than even I do.
Some people work for a living. Don't allow the limits on my presence here to alarm you ;)
culero (oh, and see my reply to Furious, it may enlighten you)
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opening doors for women is just a social manifestation of an instinctual behavior. The absolute wrong instictual behavior to have in a dangerous situation unless.... as it was intended... it is to protect the breeder.
Putting them purposely in harms way with other males around is stupid.
lazs
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the kitchen can be a pretty dangerous place too lazs...hot wather, knives, power plugs...
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just a little side note. The F-14 Hultgreen was flying was one of the 4 that got libyan kills.
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Didn't know that tidbit Dnil. Thx.
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JB73 though she is a very good looking woman, no. I'm an enlisted and she is obviously an officer. She's not the only good looking female pilot we had.
No matter what anyone may think these women are just as capable if not more capable of doing their job than men. It also doesn't matter if it's a woman or a man who dies in the line of duty, their passing would cause the same amount of sadness.
When someone in your unit passes everyone feels it.
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More useless info for ya Toad. Yes I was bored....
Copied from M.A.T.S.
160390 VF-41 AJ107 VF-213 NH103 Crashed with Hultgreen
160403 VF-41 AJ102 Confederate Air Force museum, 23.03.1998
159437 VF-32 AC202 AMARC 17.03.1992
159610 VF-32 AC207 exhibit NASM Dulles since Nov 14, 2003. VF-31 NK105--Last Squad.
The Libyan killers.
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I think regarding pilots, there really isn't much difference between men and women. You're somewhat removed from the battlefield and as long as a girl can cut it I dont see a problem with it.
When it comes to something like infantry combat, I just can't support having women alongside men. Maybe in the future (but i'd rather hope we move away from that kind of fighting by then) but right now I dont think society is at a point where men could fight alongside women in the trenches without it being a potential distraction. It is (as mentioned previously) instinct to protect the women and children, and there are many different situations where an enemy could exploit that basic instinct to gain a tactical advantage.
As long as women are giving birth protecting them will be a normal function of life. I would say it's almost impossible to sever the attachment of the human mother/female psycologically from a soldier.
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I don't know if it is "impossible" or not but if we ever do it will be a much worse world we live in.
lazs