Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Howitzer on June 18, 2005, 01:52:28 AM
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Been trying to learn the tater gun in the 109s, and all previous experience leads me to believe that 1 ping on any fighter will send it down. Tonight 3 times I hit the front of a plane, saw a flash right in front of the cockpit, and the guy flies away with an oil hit. Ended up with 3 assists on those planes. Just seems rather weak... couldn't imagine what that round would do to the front of that plane.
Oh btw, also got discoed 4 times along with the rest of the MA. (I figure this part should bring my whine score up to a 5 as I needed something unoriginal) =)
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It's a known issue Howi. It's more of a overall DM problems rather than just with the 30mms. The past discussions on this problem has more or less led to the conclusions that;
1) the DM in AH deals "undamaged" or "damaged" status. No in-betweens or gradual state of damage.
2) when a "damaged" status is dealt out, the 3D model is effected to correspond to the levelof damage. For instance, if a "wingtip" area gains enough damage and is declared "destroyed", the wingtip falls off from its 3D model
3) however, in case of the engine area, there is no damage here. If the engine is declared "damaged", either the engine siezes up or starts losing oil. Since there is no fuel tank near the engine, or since the 3D model doesn't allow the engine block to fall off or something, no damage obtained in this area will cause any kind of instantaneous kill or structural failure.
4) therefore, if by chance you land a 30mm shell somewhere in front of the cockpit, between the cowl and the spinner area, the plane will obtain only engine damage of some sort. In real life, a 30mm hit at that area might even totally separate the engine block from the plane, or cause an instant detonation that might blow up the plane. However, in many cases, not so in AH.
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i was trying to take off at A2, when you tested your 30mm on me , works fantastic , i blew up like watermelon on the runway,
now next step, go test it on flying planes
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Firing 30mm alone or with the 13mm?
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welcome to the frustrating side of AH LW Howie. I try to aim the taters at the cockpit/wingroot or the tail feathers. they are typically 1 ping kills. the taters really mess up buffs though, 2 pings = a wing. with a good line up and a little rudder work its a formation per pass.
great post kweassa
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Originally posted by Kweassa
In real life, a 30mm hit at that area might even totally separate the engine block from the plane, or cause an instant detonation that might blow up the plane. However, in many cases, not so in AH.
Would a 30mm round do substantial damage? Yeah, mostly to light gauge sheet metal and ribs. I've witnessed 15-20 rounds of 25mm HE (Mk38 Bushmaster gun mount) fired into the engine compartment of a large truck and while superficial damage was impressive, the engine itself was not "blown off" its mounting.
In the 9th AF alone, more than 300 P-47s returned home after being hit by triple A of 37mm and greater. Then again, quite a few were brought down after being hit by lesser caliber weapons.
It all boils down to where it gets hit, the angle of trajectory and a myriad of other factors. Its completely random.
In AH2, I have put more than a dozen 40mm armor piercing rounds (from a Hurri IID) into a B-24 with minimal result. I simply did not hit anything vital (and the 40mm rounds do not explode).
My regards,
Widewing
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gotta load up with the new depleted uranium 30mm ammo.
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LOL yeah sorry about that ghi. There was a great fight going on, but the rooks managed to take control of it, and by the time I got back over there, all the targets were gone. You guys were upping so I was using you as target practice to get the feel for these 30s.
Thanks for the opinions guys, that puts it into perspective for me. It was funny, I guess damage isn't attributed to the spinner either. I landed a hit on a 205 in a high angle deflection and I could see it tag right on the tip of the spinner with the same result. Just frustrating because you only get 65 shots with that thing, if you hit something you want it to count =)
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Yesterday I hit one G10 with my 30mm cannon right into his tailfeathers. Shot from 6 oc, 200 yrds , totally straight and level shot.... saw the explosion , nice red POOF, right in his tail..
I fired only 2 shots which 1 was a miss I think.
Total damage: he lost his oil and radiator started leaking...
Go figure..
As to HurriD 40mm cannons, theyre just useless. I pumped at least 10 shots at range between 400 yrds to 150 yrds into one panzer IV´s sidepanels and upper rear deck, no damage... 20mm hispanoes can get it even smoking.
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Originally posted by LLv34 Jarsci
As to HurriD 40mm cannons, theyre just useless. I pumped at least 10 shots at range between 400 yrds to 150 yrds into one panzer IV´s sidepanels and upper rear deck, no damage... 20mm hispanoes can get it even smoking.
Come on now ;) We don't need more sillyness in these threads :D Really though the 40mm works just fine vs GV's. He might have had supplies near by. I find one pull of the trigger a pass is plenty. No need to pump good rounds into the ground :) Also I am sure conv. is a huge issue with the 40mm's. I ONLY fire when the GV crosses into the 400m range. I have my conv. for the 40mm set at 450, seems to work well for me.
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A 30 mm hit will bring down about any fighter in AH if you hit anywhere else than the engine. If you hit the engine the engine will die (most of the times atleast) and he will be deadstick.
Bomber are tougher though but put two 30's close together in the wing of a bomber (preferably outer wing) and it will most likely go down.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
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Bomber are tougher though but put two 30's close together in the wing of a bomber (preferably outer wing) and it will most likely go down. [/B]
Bombers, don't need 30mm shells, are now eassy to set on fire with few rounds 20mm, .50cal if you hit them from above,
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I doubt that, but I aint gonna argue. I just ignore bombers until they decide to fix them.
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Rgr Ghi, they are still tougher then fighters though :)
B17 have always been quite easy to set on fire if you aim for the right place but I agree, many bombers are set on fire now. Big fuel tanks I guess, easy to hit.
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Originally posted by zorstorer
Come on now ;) We don't need more sillyness in these threads :D Really though the 40mm works just fine vs GV's. He might have had supplies near by. I find one pull of the trigger a pass is plenty. No need to pump good rounds into the ground :) Also I am sure conv. is a huge issue with the 40mm's. I ONLY fire when the GV crosses into the 400m range. I have my conv. for the 40mm set at 450, seems to work well for me.
Damn I forgot to tape it. My friend was manning shore battery and watching my attacks. He and I can confirm that I hit most of my shots, convergence is 250. Lots of pings and booms in the tank, but only 2 smoking tanks after ½ hour work. lots of assists tho.
M8 needed 2 grenades.
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I've noticed within the last 48hrs or so that hits don't seem to be happening for me or when I hit anything little to no damage seems to occur.
I've noticed cycles of this from time to time.
It SEEMS like I can dive in on em open fire and as little as 30 rounds x 3 20mm will down a bomber. Later it seems like I gotta use at the minimum 120 rounds x 3. I'm using gonds in a 109g10 or 109f4. For me the 109 is a better buff killer then a 190 with 4 20mm or 2 20mm and the 2 30mm.
I pretty sure I'm aiming at the same locations. And using pretty much the same attack angle.
I admit It is probably me but all the same it SEEMS different sometimes. Like something is changed?
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Originally posted by wrag
[of this from time to time.
. I'm using gonds in a 109g10 or 109f4. For me the 109 is a better buff killer then a 190 with 4 20mm or 2 20mm and the 2 30mm.
I? [/B]
For me too, G10 killing buffs is best fun, i love the smell of rosted bombers
Fw190A8, has better firepower, with 2x30mm+2x20mm+mgs but is too slow, i can't make passes and climb again, If is B26s or KI67 forget them, can't catch them in A8
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Did the G10 - K4 ever come with 30mm wing pods as in IL2 FB? If it did, can we have them?
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Originally posted by Schaden
Did the G10 - K4 ever come with 30mm wing pods as in IL2 FB? If it did, can we have them?
it did, but it was a mess to fly......
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Originally posted by BTW
I doubt that, but I aint gonna argue. I just ignore bombers until they decide to fix them.
ghi is right. Bombers aren't hard to take down at all anymore, not that they were ever difficult in the first place. .50 cals alone is enough to take down bombers, no need for cannons.
ack-ack
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Does the NS-37 suffer from the same "engine hit" problem as the German 30mm?
I don't think I've ever seen a single engine plane survive a single NS-37 hit. I always have gondolas when I'm in a 109, so I have no idea what I'm hitting with.
-Sik
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Originally posted by LLv34 Jarsci
Damn I forgot to tape it. My friend was manning shore battery and watching my attacks. He and I can confirm that I hit most of my shots, convergence is 250. Lots of pings and booms in the tank, but only 2 smoking tanks after ½ hour work. lots of assists tho.
M8 needed 2 grenades.
Convergance is too far. Set them to 150, aim for the rear or upper-rear deck, and dont shoot till you can count rivets. I tend to get lots of kills, or atleast damage+ditch that way.
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>>ghi is right. Bombers aren't hard to take down at all anymore, not that they were ever difficult in the first place. .50 cals alone is enough to take down bombers, no need for cannons.
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Well b17's break up pretty well, but Lancs or b24's, I just find them a waste of time if I'm in a spit - there is a much greater chance I will die than them dieing. I just don't find it worth the alt time. I'f they're 5k, heck yea I'll take a shot.
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Originally posted by BTW
>>ghi is right. Bombers aren't hard to take down at all anymore, not that they were ever difficult in the first place. .50 cals alone is enough to take down bombers, no need for cannons.
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Well b17's break up pretty well, but Lancs or b24's, I just find them a waste of time if I'm in a spit - there is a much greater chance I will die than them dieing. I just don't find it worth the alt time. I'f they're 5k, heck yea I'll take a shot.
Come from above and dive down. Aim the nose of your plane at the space between the top turret and cockpit. At this angle, it is difficult for the guns on the bombers to track you. You might get a stray ping or two but they won't hurt you. And when you fire, your shots will hit at the wing root area and you can easily remove the wing with a burst or two.
Since you're also in a plane with wing mounted guns make sure you're firing at your optimal convergence range to ensure full force impact from your guns.
ack-ack
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Thank you, I'll give it a try. I've tried raking from the side and comming in from the bottom - the latter is absolute suicide since you flop like a fish when come up behind them. Oh and also HO wich is pretty safe but never nets more than a spark or two..
Ill try the top angle
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My bet is that a 30mm HE hit to an engine is more than likely gonna seperate the reduction box on the front on an inline in a heartbeat....
my .02
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Originally posted by ghi
i was trying to take off at A2, when you tested your 30mm on me , works fantastic , i blew up like watermelon on the runway,
now next step, go test it on flying planes
lol:lol
Filthy vulching scum!:mad:
ghi's 20mm's work well on my plane when its on the runway. :)
i wonder how his 30mm's would do.
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40mms are fine Jarsci.
Just try to land both shots from both wings on one place.
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Didn't the Germans use a round that was both AP/HE?
ack-ack
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Filthy vulching scum!
Yeah yeah... I think he got his wheels up on one of the passes, so actually the plane WAS in the air, and it wasn't technically a vulch.
You see this is all just a big misunderstanding.. ;)
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Originally posted by Howitzer
Yeah yeah... I think he got his wheels up on one of the passes, so actually the plane WAS in the air, and it wasn't technically a vulch.
You see this is all just a big misunderstanding.. ;)
:lol :lol , np,i would do the same,
i deserve that, i'm the dweeb upping caped bases, HOing vulchers in IL2, but is part of the fun,
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I guess the real intent of the post started from a picture that I saw on the aircraft and vehicles forum about a year or so ago where it showed some RAF plane that got hit in front of the tail section but behind wings (I guess you could say fuselage?) by a german 30mm HE round and it literally blew a 5'x6' hole in the side of the plane. You could look at one side and see out the other. If these rounds really did that much damage, how in the world could one just knock out the oil with out ripping the front right off the plane?
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Originally posted by ghi
:lol :lol , np,i would do the same,
i deserve that, i'm the dweeb upping caped bases, HOing vulchers in IL2, but is part of the fun,
Il2s seem to have become the base defense choice of late. :lol I should know... I think we traded pelts several times at A117 last night ghi. I was... err... trying to suppress individuals wanting to thwart our efforts at taking it. A great defense you had there.
My highlight was the formation of B24s on the runway which attracted one of my 1000lb gifts :D
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Originally posted by Howitzer
If these rounds really did that much damage, how in the world could one just knock out the oil with out ripping the front right off the plane?
Yeah, I've seen the same thing you're describing and I've seen similar cannon damage pictures (on B17s) at Dave's Warbirds (damaged B17) page (http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm)
Some amazing stuff there. :eek:
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Minengeschoss!
Don't mind me am just passing through. ;)
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Normally it does not take a lot of hits on one wing of a B24 to bring it down with my Yak-9U. With a couple I shot down yesterday, two seperate sorties, I burned up most of my ammo on them, and the hits were concentrated, not spattered all over the place.
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30mm sux here...always have ...always will. layed em b4 from one end of a buff to the other ..including wing tip to wing tip and often they just fly away scratching their nards like a flea just bit em.
Seen book of RAF tests of the german 30mm "mines" a single hit to spit and basically ripped it in two, a single hit to fuselage of b17 and blew a hole big enough to drive a vw bug thru. .. here they just loosen a couple of rivits 1/2 the time. Dont get me wrong taken alot of buffs down with 30mm but takes alot of them most of the time untill you learn to aim for wing tips or forward fuselage...maybe its a sprite thing ..i know its not my conn. i've tested that with network monitoring .
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Originally posted by Howitzer
I guess the real intent of the post started from a picture that I saw on the aircraft and vehicles forum about a year or so ago where it showed some RAF plane that got hit in front of the tail section but behind wings (I guess you could say fuselage?) by a german 30mm HE round and it literally blew a 5'x6' hole in the side of the plane. You could look at one side and see out the other. If these rounds really did that much damage, how in the world could one just knock out the oil with out ripping the front right off the plane?
Frankly, I doubt that a single 30mm would do damage to that extent. More likely that was aero damage initiated by a cannon hit. I've seen bird strikes that caused extensive aero damage.
There's not a whole lot of explosive in a 30mm round. Compare it to the M406 40mm grenade (M79 launcher, M203 rifle/grenade launcher) which has considerably more explosive, but is generally only lethal within 3 meters.
Engines, especially liquid cooled engines, have a robust block and mounting frame, and a single 30mm round will not rip the engine from the airframe. R2800 radials sucked up larger caliber hits than that and continued to run, albeit missing a cylinder jug or two.
30mm can do severe airframe damage, but light gauge aluminum sheet metal can be penetrated by a hard-thrown screwdriver. Engine blocks are a heck of a lot tougher.
You gents grossly over-estimate the explosive power of these rounds.
My regards,
Widewing
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watch your film.. you probably killed their engines
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and Hurr D FOR DEATH s 40 mils dont work?....
this was 1 PASS!!!! 3 .-.30 mils hit his dome..and he poppped
these were unleashed at a Hi Angle of Attack..which is pretty much mandatory for DEEP Penetration...hmm thats dirty
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/842_1113859902_pnzrblow.jpg)