Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Xjazz on June 19, 2005, 01:19:02 PM
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All I can say :mad:
http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=90148
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I feel for the fans who spent alot of money to travel there to watch a race. At this point I gotta side with the drivers. Would you knowingly go out there if you had a set of tires that were unsafe?
Why not just put in the damn chicane? All teams would have raced, problem solved.
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What I put in the other thread:
What a complete joke! FIA should really have made a compromise regarding the Michelin situation. All credit to the Michelin teams though for starting the parade lap and therefore allowing the 6 car race to commence (officially less than 10 cars voids the race).
I feel sorry for all the spectators and fans....
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Most people seem to be blaming Michellin for this.
I think the brunt of the blame lies with the FIA and these bull**** tire rules... aboslutely embaressing for all parties involved... say goodbye to that second USGP.
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I'm shocked by the reaction of Ferrari and the complete lack of honor and "sport spirit" they showed.
They acted like clowns.
This victory is worst than a defeat.
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even though there were only 6 cars...
schumi still found time to force an opponent, and a team mate at that, off the track.
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""Michelin will not allow its seven Formula One teams race in the US Grand Prix today. ""
michelin owns seven F1 race teams, wow, no wonder their tires cost so much.
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Originally posted by straffo
I'm shocked by the reaction of Ferrari and the complete lack of honor and "sport spirit" they showed.
They acted like clowns.
This victory is worst than a defeat.
*BS* Straffo, now blame Ferrari for WHAT ???????????
They did there job very well, came to Indiana, qualified and raced.
Whats up with your "shocked" ??
I feel sorry for the fans too, but the FAULT is by the french tire Company MICHELIN.
They where testing WEEKS before the race at Indianpolis
new tires. Nascar Teams where there also and everyone realised
the new track eats the rubber damn good.
And today after the second stop of Ferrari, Bridgestone said the Tires
are still good enough for 100 (one hundret!) more laps!
It takes a good driver, good aierodynamic, good motor
AND GOOD TIRES to win a Grand Prix.
Good Job Bridgestone, after all the rules they made to make
your life harder, today you striked back ! :aok
Its so funny to blame the teams who raced today because
they did race, and thats why they exist at all.
And you Straffo talk about Ferrari they acted like clowns? lol
And the whole idea about the new shikane, its pure *BS*!
Imagine what whould happen in the future if a team have
problems with tires and they demand a shikane? Change every
racetrack on demand? *lol*
Hey a tip for the Michelin drivers, change to BRIDGESTONE! :)
"sport spirit" my a** hehehe
R
Gh0stFT
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You have a good point in that Michelin dropped the ball in some way. I am not 100% sure what the problem was and will not comment any further on it. Michelin's product for this race was inadequate.
Now that being said. If the FIA was to work with the manufacturer and the teams running Michelin by installing a chicane there would have been a RACE and not a 6 car tire test. Should they install one every time? Come on .. how often has this happend? Will it happen again? For Formula One .. I hope not.
Luckily for me, I could simply turn the channel to FOX and watch NASCAR. Where the racing is competitive and close.
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I guess Michelin didn't know that the Indy track was on the schedule this year, otherwise they would have had an adequate product, chicane or no chicane.
"To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres," said the FIA statement.
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Originally posted by skernsk
Why not just put in the damn chicane? All teams would have raced, problem solved.
Ferrari vetoed it.
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Originally posted by Furball
even though there were only 6 cars...
schumi still found time to force an opponent, and a team mate at that, off the track.
He's amazing. I bet he blocks people with his cart at the supermarket. When he's 90 years old he'll be running other wheelchairs off the sidewalk.
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sure teh Schumey is guilty !!!111 Ban him!!!!
lol, even with a shikane or two Michelin Tires would still be
risky to drive there, and everyone knows that! but noo, its teh bad schumey!!
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hmm..
Thats one way for MS to win the championship again.
And maybe the only way? What do you say GhostFT ;)
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
*BS* Straffo, now blame Ferrari for WHAT ???????????
They did there job very well, came to Indiana, qualified and raced.
Whats up with your "shocked" ??
answer :
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Ferrari vetoed it.
Had Jordan Ferrari and Minardi leave the track it would have been fine.
They choose to be greedy : shame on them.
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Btw if you think it's a victory you're wrong , it's a defeat for the sport and especially for Ferrari and the FIA.
What is a victory without competition ?
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It's Ferrari's fault that Michelin can't make an Indy tire?
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It's not what I'm trying to say.
I say to keep the competition and having a real victory Ferrari should have either accepted the modification or refuse to compete.
They prefered the easy way.
And this is a shame (for me at least).
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Originally posted by straffo
What is a victory without competition ?
we all know it was easy for Schumey,
but ever heard about constructors championship?
i say, 1:0 for Ferrari/Bridgestone :aok
Straffo, lets see what kind of tires Michelin have ready for
the France GP in Magny-Cours, they better make it work hehe ;)
Hey who knows they maybe change the racetrack layout there
so the track fits theyr tires? I guess the first thing would be a shikane
in the bigbend curve right after the starting straight. *G*
Hey Nilsen, remember what i have said? 1. Schumi, 2nd Barri :)
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
Hey Nilsen, remember what i have said? 1. Schumi, 2nd Barri :)
unfair! :D
Ok, you win this round.
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
we all know it was easy for Schumey,
but ever heard about constructors championship?
i say, 1:0 for Ferrari/Bridgestone :aok
Straffo, lets see what kind of tires Michelin have ready for
the France GP in Magny-Cours, they better make it work hehe ;)
Hey who knows they maybe change the racetrack layout there
so the track fits theyr tires? I guess the first thing would be a shikane
in the bigbend curve right after the starting straight. *G*
Hey Nilsen, remember what i have said? 1. Schumi, 2nd Barri :)
It's not a question of Michelin or not Michelin , I've no nationalistic pride involved.
F1 is nothing but a boring and chitty competition.
I would better look 10 hours of NASCAR than 1 hour of this comedie.
When was for the last time F1 interresting ? in the 80 it died in the 90.
Senna, Prost ,Berger , Mansell, Patrese Boutsen ,Piquet, Lauda made the myth.
Schumi is nothing compared to any of those guy.
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Worst thing about beeing on holiday, is that i missed this years edition of the Le Mans 24hour race. Dunno why I love it, its not good "racing" really, but its still cool
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Originally posted by straffo
Schumi is nothing compared to any of those guy.
umh, what have this statement to do with yesterdays race?
but while we at it, no other of your so called guys have won
7 world champion titles.
...your turn ;)
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What some of you don't realize is the obligation of those not affected with bad tires still had to race. They can't help it if the others chose a different tire. 20/20 is fine, but think of all those would be pissed off sponsors if those cars that were capable decided not to race. Without sponsorship dollars, there'd be no race. Welcome to the modern era of racing with the best, most expensive technology.
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good point Saburo..
Will those who had payed for a ticket now get a refund, and would they get one if no cars raced?. Prolly just as important... we are talking huge sums of money for F1 and the organisers/track.
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Originally posted by straffo
It's not what I'm trying to say.
I say to keep the competition and having a real victory Ferrari should have either accepted the modification or refuse to compete.
They prefered the easy way.
And this is a shame (for me at least).
Ferrari have been behind the ball all year...they show up ready and competitive, and suddenly they have to accept a compromise?
I'm sure if Ferrari showed up with bad bridgestones...all the michelin runners would've vetoed the race...right?
But somehow it's FIA....and therefore Ferrari's fault they showed up ready to race?
I feel bad for the US fans, and F1 could be stuffed for a long time over there, but this is ALL michelins fault they weren't on the ball!!!
Williams, BAR Honda, Toyota, McLaren, RBR, Renault, Sauber would all have raced if Ferrari was at the disadvantage..
Tronsky
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
umh, what have this statement to do with yesterdays race?
but while we at it, no other of your so called guys have won
7 world champion titles.
...your turn ;)
If you want to post stupidity I can too :)
Schumi never won a race with Senna or Prost.
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Originally posted by -tronski-
Ferrari have been behind the ball all year...they show up ready and competitive, and suddenly they have to accept a compromise?
I'm sure if Ferrari showed up with bad bridgestones...all the michelin runners would've vetoed the race...right?
But somehow it's FIA....and therefore Ferrari's fault they showed up ready to race?
I feel bad for the US fans, and F1 could be stuffed for a long time over there, but this is ALL michelins fault they weren't on the ball!!!
Williams, BAR Honda, Toyota, McLaren, RBR, Renault, Sauber would all have raced if Ferrari was at the disadvantage..
Tronsky
The questions are :
Why the Michelin runner didn't porked the race when they had the possibility
Why Ferrari participated in this comedie.
The answer is easy to find.
Had the Michelin user refused to put their car on the track there won't have been any race
They choose to make the formation lap and Ferrari choose to have a easy victory.
I had never a lot of respect for Ferrari now the last 1% is gone.
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Originally posted by straffo
If you want to post stupidity I can too :)
Schumi never won a race with Senna or Prost.
Brazil, 1994
1. Schumacher
DNF. Senna
Tronsky
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Originally posted by straffo
The questions are :
Why the Michelin runner didn't porked the race when they had the possibility
Why Ferrari participated in this comedie.
The answer is easy to find.
Had the Michelin user refused to put their car on the track there won't have been any race
They choose to make the formation lap and Ferrari choose to have a easy victory.
I had never a lot of respect for Ferrari now the last 1% is gone.
C'mon Straffo..your smarter than that...your saying in any other competition where you'd prepared and were ready to compete, whereas your main competition weren't, and wanted to change the circumstances so they would be competitive...you'd just go along with it?
Especially when your spending a couple of hundred million dollars a year to be competitive?
Tronsky
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Not it's not a question of leaving the other being competitive.
It's more a question of the value of the victory.
Millions of spectators have been robbed.
But Ferrari got her point so the FIA ,Berni and Todt are happy.
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All the Michelin Teams should payback the money to the Fans
who bought Tickets to see them Race. They didnt Race, so please
give them Money back, thank you.
How about that Straffo?
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no way.
I just hope it won't be the only victory for Schumi or Ferrari this year.
Or the ridiculous of the situation will be greater than today.
But I trust Bernie and the FIA to change
again the rules so Ferrari can win the championship next year.
I still don't understand how the current rules where accepted by the FIA ... did Bernie had a sudden diarrhea during the vote ?
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Blah blah blah who's at fault he's greedy michelin sux blah blah. You're all missing the point.
The point is that F1's rules have a gaping wide hole in them, that resulted in a race turning into a 6 car bridgestone tire test. The rules problem is that in a field that uses one of only two tire choices, if the tire manufacturer makes a mistake on the tire composition, it could force over half of the teams to make the choice between driving unsafe cars or not participating.
Regardless of who made what mistake or got greedy, the rules problem is the root cause of the fiasco. It's 100% desirable to put tire restrictions on the teams because otherwise the teams would use it as a loophole to use softer tires during qualifying. There is a TRIVIAL solution of course, but the F1 rules committee and teams are too stuck up and bitter to consider it. Here it is:
A tire manufacturer may make available an alternate tire choice if any team determines that the previously chosen tire is unsuitable for the race or track conditions. Any team chosing to switch tires after practice or qualification will start at the back of the field. Teams chosing to swap tires after scheduled practice sessions will be authorized one practice session on the new tires prior to race day, and will not be allowed to re-qualify.
There it is, problem solved. No incentive for swapping tires, safety considerations are met, and the fans don't get shafted by a bunch of teams, drivers, manufacturers, and rules officials who can't work together when given a week to save an important race from disaster.
Edit - This is one reason why NASCAR is more popular in the states than other racing events. This sort of thing has happened numerous times in NASCAR, where a safety problem crops up right before or after a race, and instead of bickering over it and cancelling the next race or forcing entire teams out of the running, they ALWAYS come up with a solution that saves the race for the fans by the next week. Sure sometimes the solutions aren't pretty, such as the season where they tried bolting a 1 inch tall strip across the roofs of all the cars to break up the aero profile, but at least they give it a shot instead of just giving up like a bunch of uncooperative prima-donnas and taking their toys home with them.
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An anecdotal story about Soviet plans to participate in F1 races.
In fact - AZLK automobile factory made an F1 racing car in late-50s or 60s, I don't remember the exact date. The car existed, it's on the exhibition in AZLK museum, at least it was before the museum was "privatised" and most of it's exhibit stolen (thanks to our Democracy and Capitalism).
The problem was that, as any motor-sport, it was sponsored and watched by DOSAAF, "Voluntary Society of Supporting Army, Aviation and Navy". That society supported most of "technical" sports, together with free training tht could help young men get a good speciality in the military service.
The leader of DOSAAF was Alexander Pokryshkin. I hope you know that man ;) So, when he was told to start negotiations with Max Mosley, he asked if he's a relative of Oswald Mosley, the leader of British fascists. When he learned that Max is his son - he refused to talk to him, because he "saw enough fascists, and only in a gunsight".
That's why we didin't have an F1 team. I imagine a bright-red car with golden Hammer and a Sickle without any advertising on it :)
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That would be a sweet looking car Boroda.
Lada engine perhaps, or a Trabant 0,3 liter with turbo?
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Ya brother, just came back from LeMans. Got to hear the Star Spangle Banner 3 times. US based Audi team, factory vettes and a US based Porsche team. Oh ya, saw history too. Tom Kristensen setting a new record................er, I'm sorry what were you talking about. Formula 1?
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Originally posted by Nilsen
That would be a sweet looking car Boroda.
Lada engine perhaps, or a Trabant with turbo?
At some distant time, before we started to copy many things from the West, even AZLK (Avtomobil', Zavedomo Lishenniy Kachestva, or "Automobile, by definition lacking quality") made decent cars...
In USSR it was possible to make anything, even an F1 car, but - only "on-the-knee". In mass production everything turned into crap. Back in the 70s my family had to choose a colour TV by a date of production: it had to be certain shift and NOT a Monday!... :rolleyes: :D
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So if the trabant 0,3L turbo F1 was made in only one copy and on a Tuesday it would have been competitive?
:D
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Originally posted by Nilsen
So if the trabant 0,3L turbo F1 was made in only one copy and on a Tuesday it would have been competitive?
:D
Trabant was an invention of a "shady Teutonic genius". ;)
On Mondays normal people have a hangover :D
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Let's see.... Michelin's tires were deemed unsafe entering turn 13 because they might not be able to withstand the load applied....
So, brake before entering turn 13, slow down and reduce the load.
Some people argue that the FIA should have allowed a chicane....
Gee, who qualified with a chicane? No one.
Who practiced with a chicane? No one.
Were there any safety studies to determine the possible ramifications of said chicane? No.
This left a very bad taste in my mouth. I was just about to order two new sets of tires from tiresdirect.com, both of which were going to be Michelins. Today I ordered Nittos and Falkens.
I sent the following e-mail to Michelin:
"I was about to order a new set of Pilot MXM4 tires for our WRX and a set of Pilot XGT V4s for our Aerio SX. Both are in need of new tires. However, I am so put off by the events at the USGP, I ordered a set of Falkens and a set of Nittos. Michelin's behavior and remarkably unconvincing excuse for declaring their race tires "unsafe" left an very bad taste in my mouth. I have used Michelin tires almost exclusively for 30 years, but this debacle has soured any desire to pump money into a company that shows such utter disregard for F1 fans here in America. If you bring the wrong tires, that's unfortunate, but racing is all about decisions... I've made mine and I make no excuses."
Danica Patrick was the most famous woman driver in motorsports for two weeks. Those F1 teams who refused to race have presented 14 new competitors for that title.....
I'm sure NASCAR was laughing till their sides hurt.
My regards,
Widewing
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So many of you are missing this entirely... forget about the damn chicane. The Mich teams didnt want a chicane.
The aim was to bring in tires that wouldnt blow up and kill someone.
Thats all they wanted - new tires. The chicane was the outrageous demand that would have been axed during the course of negotiating with the powers that be... but the FIA wouldnt grant them the ability to introduce a new tire halfway through the GP weekend so it was all for nought anyway.
Every single new "rule" that has been introduced to F1 over the last few years needs to be done away with immediately.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
So many of you are missing this entirely... forget about the damn chicane. The Mich teams didnt want a chicane.
The aim was to bring in tires that wouldnt blow up and kill someone.
Thats all they wanted - new tires. The chicane was the outrageous demand that would have been axed during the course of negotiating with the powers that be... but the FIA wouldnt grant them the ability to introduce a new tire halfway through the GP weekend so it was all for nought anyway.
Every single new "rule" that has been introduced to F1 over the last few years needs to be done away with immediately.
Whether or not the rules should be changed is not the issue here.
Fact: Bridgestone tires were miserable during the first half of the season. Multiple failures were experienced by all the Bridgestone teams. Did Bridgestone declare their tires unsafe? No. Did Bridgestone ask its teams not to race because the tires were more likely to fail? No. Those teams simply soldiered on until Bridgestone solved the problem, and they did so within the rules as they currently exist, however screwed up they may be.
Now, we have Michelin showing up with the wrong tire. Gee, life stinks sometimes.... They want an exception to the rule, the same rule that limited Bridgestone for race after race... Perhaps the rules need correcting, but not now. Finish the season, take your lumps...
A few weeks ago, NASCAR ran a Nextel Cup race where nearly half the field had trouble with tires failing. They knew this two days prior during practice and qualification. Well, all the teams raced, and some crashed out or fell to the rear due to tire failures. It's a dangerous business, and you simply don't run for the transporter when you don't like your circumstances.
All the Michelin teams had to do was SLOW DOWN before entering turn 13...
Sorry, this is a lousy excuse. It's about the politics of power and money in F1 and it killed the USGP as sure as the sun rises tomorrow. Honestly, I won't miss it, because there's much more entertaining road racing available in the US, where we see something besides a parade (I see more passing in parking lots than in an F1 race) and listen to the stuffed shirts and arrogant drivers tell us how much the world needs F1... Besides, F1 hasn't had any character since Nigel Mansell left and went to Indy cars.
My regards,
Widewing
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They should have just raced. Slicks in 2008.
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yep redo the rules a bit. No pit to driver radio under green flag. Bring back the tire changes. Can we get turbos?
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So.. a french company drops the ball and surrenders to a japanese company when confronted on american terrain... lousing up in the process a european consortium's investment...
does anybody else see the iorny?
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Road America or Barber are probably the two best tracks for F1. The indy raod course isnt all that hawt. Sorry for the rant, I just another angry F1 fan.
:D
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Originally posted by Hangtime
So.. a french company drops the ball and surrenders to a japanese company when confronted on american terrain... lousing up in the process a european consortium's investment...
does anybody else see the iorny?
Ummmm...so the fulfillment of WWII is now complete? Surrender to the Germans and now the Japanese?
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I haven't the slightest clue myself.. it all seems so; i dunno...
ironic.
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Was it a surrender or a run away?
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Originally posted by Widewing
I sent the following e-mail to Michelin:
"I was about to order a new set of Pilot MXM4 tires for our WRX and a set of Pilot XGT V4s for our Aerio SX. Both are in need of new tires. However, I am so put off by the events at the USGP, I ordered a set of Falkens and a set of Nittos. Michelin's behavior and remarkably unconvincing excuse for declaring their race tires "unsafe" left an very bad taste in my mouth. I have used Michelin tires almost exclusively for 30 years, but this debacle has soured any desire to pump money into a company that shows such utter disregard for F1 fans here in America. If you bring the wrong tires, that's unfortunate, but racing is all about decisions... I've made mine and I make no excuses."
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...Now, we have Michelin showing up with the wrong tire. Gee, life stinks sometimes.... They want an exception to the rule, the same rule that limited Bridgestone for race after race... Perhaps the rules need correcting, but not now. Finish the season, take your lumps...
You are 100% right Widewing, but at the end it will be all Schumeys fault lol ;)
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Originally posted by Widewing
Let's see.... Michelin's tires were deemed unsafe entering turn 13 because they might not be able to withstand the load applied....
So, brake before entering turn 13, slow down and reduce the load.
Some people argue that the FIA should have allowed a chicane....
Gee, who qualified with a chicane? No one.
Who practiced with a chicane? No one.
Were there any safety studies to determine the possible ramifications of said chicane? No.
9 of 10 team were ok with the chicane.
I guess that they were just not concerned by security and the incredible danger added by the chicane don't you think there is a flaw in your reasoning ?
This left a very bad taste in my mouth. I was just about to order two new sets of tires from tiresdirect.com, both of which were going to be Michelins. Today I ordered Nittos and Falkens.
I sent the following e-mail to Michelin:
"I was about to order a new set of Pilot MXM4 tires for our WRX and a set of Pilot XGT V4s for our Aerio SX. Both are in need of new tires. However, I am so put off by the events at the USGP, I ordered a set of Falkens and a set of Nittos. Michelin's behavior and remarkably unconvincing excuse for declaring their race tires "unsafe" left an very bad taste in my mouth. I have used Michelin tires almost exclusively for 30 years, but this debacle has soured any desire to pump money into a company that shows such utter disregard for F1 fans here in America. If you bring the wrong tires, that's unfortunate, but racing is all about decisions... I've made mine and I make no excuses."[/B]
Don't you think you are showing a bit of suffisance ?
Danica Patrick was the most famous woman driver in motorsports for two weeks. Those F1 teams who refused to race have presented 14 new competitors for that title.....
I'm sure NASCAR was laughing till their sides hurt.
[/B]
Nothing like a sexist remark ?
May I remember you that Michelin handled the problem proposed a solution refused by Ferrari and the FIA ?
Do you remeber also the FIA showed they didn't care of 150 000 spectators on track and milions on TV ?
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listen to Jean Todt:
"Honestly, why should we compromise?" asked Todt._"We try to do a good job with Bridgestone, and we did not do a very good job with Bridgestone since the beginning of the year. We arrive, we are in a situation where we see from Friday that we are competitive, we don't have any problem with tyres so for us it's an opportunity."_
Asked under what circumstances he would you have been willing to race with the Michelin runners, Todt said "I would say three options. One, they could have changed their tyres. Two, they would have to compromise in this specific corner. And three, they could have used the pit lane. If these cars cannot take this corner, what can I do? You would have had a race."
end of this story.
And btw:
the FIA has summoned the seven Michelin teams to a hearing of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Wednesday 29 June. The FIA is expected to lay down some kind of punishment to the teams following their decision not to race in the US Grand Prix on Sunday.
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Straffo do you know what a Backup Tire is? every team must bring
backup tires to the racetrack if the race tires dont work. Backup
tires are 100 safe, but much slower. Wonder where this tires where
at sundy? Michelin will have the answere Wednesday 29 June in Paris
for sure.
cu in Magny Cours Straffo!
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Won't be at Magny cour ever;)
The only competion I follow are : le Mans ,WRC and Bold d'Or.
As I still think the F1 is nothing but a comedie since the begin of the 90's.
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comedie yes, but the fastest comedie ! ;)
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Thought some might be interested in what CheckSix posted over at SimHQ. Hope he does not mind the 'copy and paste'.
Yeah re Flintstones (my name for Bridgestones this year) I have to say its more their own fault.....going back a few years both makers had 50/50 roughly, but Ferrari were starting to put pressure on B/s and started doing most of their testing and forging closer links to the point where they were clearly getting different tyres, in essence B/s were developing tyres specifically for Ferrari (timing = the start of the MSchu era)
Teams realising they were being shafted by B/s and Ferrari started moving to Michelin and voila suddenly getting better.McLaren and Williams first, followed by others. Ferrari basically wanted B/s exclusively to themselves.
Remember how BAR was s**t in 2003 and suddenly went really well in 2004.....well 2003=B/s tyres(basically Ferraris cast offs) and 2004 is the year they changed to Michelin, where they suddenly were being offered decent tyres. B/s became a major sponsor of Ferrari.
Ferrari in essence had got their own way, with a couple of customer contracts who paid for their tyres(Jordan and Minardi) and Ferrari calling the shots with B/s.
Suddenly they (FIA) changed the tyre rule to one set per race etc and it all backfired on Ferrari cos Michelin were sitting with all the teams that Ferrari and B/s between them had 'forced' away and had plenty of data to work with. Ferrari and B/s had basically manipulated themselves into an exclusive supply that had benefitted them for years, but had ultimately backfired in the biggest way. This was before Ferrari signed with the FIA for F1 until 2012 (more on this later)
Re this last weekend the problem was more with the track ....the Oval had been completely resurfaced this year with a new super grippy surface.......however the 'infield' (only used for F1) wasnt touched and was made of a different tarmac mix which was far more slick.
The teams as such dont get to test on the track at all pre GP, so no data apart from previous years races was available. Bridgestone however have a (maybe shareholding) arrangement with Firestone who supply a lot of the Indycars and so had access to all their data when choosing tyres for the race.
The tyre guys under the new ruling can only bring two compounds to each race, and all the tyres are barcoded and recorded by the FIA. The teams do practice (basically to choose which of the two compounds they will use for qualifying and the race)
Come race weekend and Michelin very quickly found out they had the wrong tyres ......neither of the two compounds/constructions they had brought were suitable as the new surface was sending tyre temps rocketing, and with the straight where they are hitting 350kmph the temperatures were going even higher, before going onto a no grip slow infield where the tyre temps dropped away, before back onto the high grip.....Ralph Schu had his accident on the second lap of his first practice session.
Michelin realised very soon they had '****ed up'advised all teams that the only interim thing they could recommend were tyre pressure lift and different camber settings, where the life of the tyre could (repeat could) last for maybe 10 laps.
In the meantime they airfrieghted new tyres from France that they felt would solve the problem of safety....but they were told by the FIA that they were not the 'designated' tyre and couldnt be used, and so Qualifying went ahead using the original tyres with pressure and camber changes.
The FIA then decided that because they(new tyres shipped in) werent the tyres that the teams qualified with that they couldnt be used without contravening subsection D of rule 142/2etc,,,,,,and therefore had to race with the original (dangerous) tyres.
Michelin and the 7 Michelin teams came up with alternative proposals like installing a chicane to lower speeds on the approach to where Ralph had his crunch, they offered to start from the back of the grid, and even offered to race for no points, to at least put on a show.
FIA turned them all down and Ferrari refused to agree with anything seeing a chance to get MS and the team back on the map basically with no competition.
Take into account that F1 as it is at the end of 2007 (the end of the Concorde agreement which is the agreement which governs F1 and who gets what out of the money pie (half for Bernie who has all the TV rights and the rest split with the teams depending on points....more points more $$$. They are currently trying to sign up teams for the period after 2007, and the teams basically want a bigger share of the pie. The manufacturers (Renault Toyota BMW M/Benz etc) arent happy with the proposed offering on the table and have said in essence Get ****ed to the FIA, and that they will go ahead and form a 'breakaway' championship. Ferrari who are happy with their share of the new 2008 pie (because of all the success/points they have had in the past few B/s years) are to date the only team to sign up with the FIA for the future.Their slice of the pie (because they have signed up early) is more than anyone else could or would get) They also have a say in new regulations etc (this is one of the carrotts to sign up, ie sign up and have your input into the new regs)
I suppose in summary it means that FIA and Ferrari are paddling the same boat and in each others pocket.
Back to the USGP Michelin were therefore told they had to run the 'dangerous' tyres and if neccessary all Michelin runners would have to make stops every 10 laps to change tyres (against the rules) and face the consequences of breaking the law.
If all 10 teams agreed to the 'chicane ' being installed it would be ok......Ferrari knocked it back (Jordan and Minardi agreed to the change) and suggested that the Michelin teams go through the corner at a reduced speed to stop the tyres overheating and detonating. Computer tests showed the cars would need to go through in 3rd gear (instead of 6th). The teams knocked this back knowing that in the heat of competition drivers might go faster and cause tyre problems, potentially killing someone or things flying into the crowd.
Michelin therefore stated to the teams that they couldnt guarantee the tyres they could use, the FIA werent prepared to waive penalties for tyre changing, so the teams said they couldnt and wouldnt race.They formed up on the dummy grid to meet contractual obligations to the FIA (dummy grid is classed as 'starting ' the race)Minardi and Jordan amongst themselves agreed they wouldnt start either (Stoddart -the Aussie Minardi owner) hates the FIA anyway and is very outspoken of the new no change tyre policy. He would have been fined for not starting but was prepared to cop that 'as a stance' if Jordan joined him. This would have left two Ferraris only and would have showed the world what salamanders they are.
Incidentally Raikkonens tyre blowout and shunt was caused by the new tyre regs which state a tyre can only be changed if it has punctured- it didnt puncture even when the suspension broke because of the vibrations caused by the flat spot on the tyre. In essence McLaren could have changed it but would have been penalised.
As it turned out Jordan went back on their word (never trust a Russian!) and 'forced' Minardi's hand. (Bear in mind those teams, if they score constructors points, basically get all their freight costs, several million$$ a year, paid for by F1) No points, no handouts.
Michelin agreed they made a mistake and went to huge lenghs to put it right ...the FIA in their stubborness and total inflexibility, and Ferrari because it is the only way they were ever going to get a 1-2 this year are the reason we didnt have a race.
All the FIA press releases have been more tuned to blaming Michelin for the mistake which is totally unfair. Michelin right from the start admitted the mistake.
My views (a bit cynical perhaps but hey thats me) is that what we saw was the FIA making a move to control tyres. They have been pushing this for a couple of years, and last year 9/10 teams voted for it at a special meeting. Ferrari (pre new tyre rule and with B/s exclusively working for them) didnt like it because it would errode their advantage and voted against. This year (ironically 2 days before the USGP) FIA announced the outline proposed new regs with a control tyre to be introduced in the future. As I see they have behaved as they did in a move to piss Michelin off to the point that they leave F1, in effect giving Bridgestone the control tyre contract by default.
FIA Ferrari and Bridgestone 1 the others NIL!
To futher cement my theory FIA after the race announced that they were moving to charge Michelin with 'Bringing the Sport into disrepute!'
Bring on the 'breakaway' group!
The FIA, whose charter is pricipally to regulate a safe and entertaining sport basically 'rogered' the the spectators and the sport fair and square, because legally (but in no way morally) they were within their rights. As such all their press releases have put total blame on Michelin who admitted a mistake. The FIA were more interested in themselves and saw that the whole episode could be be put fair and square on Michelin. They have also stated that the legal repercussions of the race (to the promoters who had to put up with crowds demanding money back have said that Michelin should cover all those losses). In other words they have handballed all responsibility for a result and a farce that a bit of compromise and maturity could have avoided.
I will piss myself if the FIA are left with Ferrari only in their F1. Ferrari are so far up themselves that they believe F1 without them is impossible and no one would watch it.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Thought some might be interested in what CheckSix posted over at SimHQ. Hope he does not mind the 'copy and paste'.[/i]
at least it shows he is NOT a Bridgestone/Ferrari/Schumi Fan
maybe someone wo works at Michelin *lol*
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Sorry Gh0stFT but even if I don't follow F1 as closely as in the past nothing in CheckSix post is wrong or a lie.
If you want to believe otherwise you can ,but having blind faith is never good.