Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Maverick on June 21, 2005, 10:50:32 AM
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Rather than hijack Hangtimes thread about his new plane I figured I'd start a new one for Q&A about this situation.
As I stated in Hang's thread I'm a total novice to this. I've got one flight of a RC powered glider under my belt and thatr was over 2 decades ago. I was interested in the new electric RC planes as that would fit in with my RV lifestyle which means very limited room to build (actually none to speak of), limited places to fly and limited funds.
I followed up on the term "Park Flyer" and saw some really neat planes there on several hobby store web sites. One brand in particular got my attention as it has small RTF's that have everything needed to fly right in the box. They use a 3 channel radio (throt, rudder,elevator) and the plane is already built other than minor assmbly of the major components. I saw a couple videos showing them in action and it looked like a decent way to go.
Thoughts on this concept please?
I am assuming that if I get one of these planes and the inevitable crunch comes I can use the same internal components on another plane, but just buy the plane part instead of the entire $150.00 box with radio. Izzat possible?
Should I forget about the little "box" job listed above and get seperate components like a seperate radio / servo assy. a seperate plane kit (ARF) and go that way? Right now I don't see a lot of possiblities of getting together with other rc folks for assistance so I'll be on my own.
Thoughts and advice appreciated gents.
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Some of the ARFs have the electronics integrated into the frame and don't use industry standard servos/receivers, etc. If that's the case, then you'll have a difficult time recycling it into another craft.
Be careful when choosing to make sure that you avoid this (The 'Air Hog' is an example of this).
If you mention what you're looking to do at the hobby store, they should steer you in the right direction. This is a great time to NOT cheap out and go to WalMart, you want someone who knows their stuff and product that's just a notch higher on the quality scale.
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I'm interested too to your questions. There are some AGW guys that are into the electric RC thang..might cross post there too.
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The inital mission as i understand it is to 'get yer feet wet', try it out and have some fun.
Go cheap. there's a $99.00 package on a lil pusher that flies great and parts are big time cheap. Limitations on all the park flyer stuff.. wind. Less than 5mph, yer golden, 5-10, yer gonna have to be careful not to let it get downwind, over 10 yer history.
Wind Dragon package (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/wingdragon.htm)
Item 2.. grassy fields are better than parking lots. light standards, trees, curbs, all tend to attract planes. Wierd.. but true.
Item 3.. Control reversal.. the enemy. Flying at you, the damn thing goes left when yah feed in right. Ooops.
Item 4. Most of the goodies in the 'inclusive' packages under 300 bucks involve AM radio systems, bare minimum controllers and sub standard chargers. In other words.. if the mission is to get a feel for it all and learn to fly, great! If on the other hand the goal is serious R/C stuff, the price tag grows immensely... the stuff from the 'foamie' is useless in larger 'serious' applications.
Lastly, the hobby has grown a new head... it's called ARF (almost ready to fly). Where 10 years ago if you wanted to fly you had to build, nowadays if you wanna build then there's fewer choices. I like to build.. but I gotta say the quality and price of the lil tied-eyed-rice eater foamie and larger built up ARF's is exceptionaly attractive.
Have fun!
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Very cool. I believe I'm gonna get one of those Wind dragons.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm interested too to your questions. There are some AGW guys that are into the electric RC thang..might cross post there too.
Rip,
I'm not on AGW so no access there. If they have some interesting stuff can you drag it over here?
Hang,
I'm not sure if I just want to keep it real simple and easy or move up a bit later on. I do know it will likely be an ARF if I do move up. When I flew control line I was definately into carrier competition and was starting to get interested into aerobatics. I'm half afraid I'll get hooked BAD bu this but it's real interesting to me. I saw some of th epark flyer models that weren't very much more than the model you linked. Some were obviously beginners but there was a nice decathalon that would do for a stunt trainer. The 'stang and zeke were sweet looking but not a good idea for starting out.
You are absolutley right about finding a hobby store and asking questions. I'm looking for a big store, or at least a RC store nearby to where we are North of Knoxville right now.
I need something easy to build or better yet a RTF system that I can have fun with that will break down for easy storage and transport. I just don't have much room in the trailer for "stuff" and don't want to have it cluttering us out of the house. I love RVing but there are sacrifices and compromises. The Mrs would definately not like strong glue fumes inside because of her chemo sensitivity!
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I would fork out the little extra money it cost over $150 for an electric engine and buy a gas/nitro engine. You can get the whole starter kit RTF also if you want. If you have not check out tower hobbies online site do so to compare prices and models. Sometimes you can find feedback on certain models. Nitro engines IMO are the only way to go :)
(http://towerhobbies.com/listings/cat-cat-a.html)
http://towerhobbies.com/listings/cat-cat-a.html
Large site, surf around it.
I also like the models .51 and larger
Good luck in your search, its a great hobby!
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Originally posted by Maverick
Rip,
I'm not on AGW so no access there. If they have some interesting stuff can you drag it over here?
Hang,
I'm not sure if I just want to keep it real simple and easy or move up a bit later on. I do know it will likely be an ARF if I do move up. When I flew control line I was definately into carrier competition and was starting to get interested into aerobatics. I'm half afraid I'll get hooked BAD bu this but it's real interesting to me. I saw some of th epark flyer models that weren't very much more than the model you linked. Some were obviously beginners but there was a nice decathalon that would do for a stunt trainer. The 'stang and zeke were sweet looking but not a good idea for starting out.
You are absolutley right about finding a hobby store and asking questions. I'm looking for a big store, or at least a RC store nearby to where we are North of Knoxville right now.
I need something easy to build or better yet a RTF system that I can have fun with that will break down for easy storage and transport. I just don't have much room in the trailer for "stuff" and don't want to have it cluttering us out of the house. I love RVing but there are sacrifices and compromises. The Mrs would definately not like strong glue fumes inside because of her chemo sensitivity!
Mav, be careful in the 'hobby stores'. Often the mission there is for them to sell what they have, not what you need... and the product knowlege on electrics in a lotta these shops is horrible.
Glue fumes and such are pretty much a thing of the past.. Foamies glue up with an instant CyA formula thats 'oderless'. Size is not much of a problem fer the foamies.. dinky lil things, their wings remove and yah can chuck 'em most anywhere. Back when i had a pickup truck, I used to keep a lil sailplane stashed behind the seat. Any wide spot in the road was a flying field.. instantly. ;)
Lil electrics and RV's are a great marrige.. the field chargers are 12v based, they make no noise, they don't weigh enuff to be a safety threat to on lookers and they are very resilient to dorking. A baseball field is plenty big enuff to fly from.. most campgrounds have a claring nearby. One thing you'll wanna get is an 'extendable pole' to rescue 'em from tree branches.. otherwize, you'll be hiring local kids for climbing missions.
Have fun!
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A trick I learned years ago concerning control reversal...look over your shoulder and keep your back towards the plane when it is flying towards you.
Now that I am learning helicopters...that trick dosen't work anymore...you lose some prespective as to the exact position of the helicopter. But with a slow plane it works.
You should be able to get a slo V for around 150.00 ready to go.
http://www.rchobbies.org/parkzone-slo-v.htm
I've only heard good things about this plane...google it for more opinions.
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Good info guys, Thanks.
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You guys looking to get into it are going the right route with an electric park flyer. I learned on a big glow fueled .40 trainer, and was so paranoid about crashing it that I never wanted to fly unless things were perfect. Plus, the gas engine was a pain in the arse, and made it impossible to fly without dedicating an entire day to it.
In college I sprung for an electric Zagi 400X (http://www.zagi.com/) on a whim. The thing was a bit hot for me to re-learn on, but after numerous full power 90 degree augers I mastered it.
The best thing about most electrics is that they're designed to fall apart in a crash, and since they're foam there's really no damage besides wrinkles in the finish. Plus, the engines always start (no screwing around with fuel mixtures and such), they're quiet enough to fly almost everywhere, and most of the parts are cheap to replace if damaged.
As Hang said, you need to be very careful about planes with pre-packaged electronics. The radio equipment is a bigger investment than the airframe, and it deserves as much, if not more, research than the plane. Plus, you can swap standard radio equipment between planes, as well as get service and replacement parts. With an el-cheapo radio setup, that's not guaranteed.
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Dertick,
I did the gas engine bit when I was flying control line. I had .049's for small combat and had super tiger .35's for carrier competition. We called them stupid tigers because when something broke you couldn't get parts for it. You could buy the engines cheap and they ran very reliably right out of the box, unlike Fox .35's. The throttle function was neat and I had a ball. It did take a BUNCH of space, tools, fuel, solvent etc. so I can't do that route again as a RVer. I can't get into the big construction deal anymore, there simply is not any room in a 38' RV to spread stuff out and have wing jigs and so on. The ARF or RTF will have to do it. Since I will likely have to fly wherever I find a place noise and again space are at a premium. That means electrics. I agree that gassers are the big dogs but I am stuck with a chihuahua's limitations on the sport. :D
Hang,
I'm looking real hard at the box kits like the Winddragon or the parkflyer model trainer. I just don't know if I want to spend just a bit more and get a decent but inexpensive 4 chanel radio and servos then get a similar if not the same bird minus the hardware. I'd rather not buy 2 radios when one would do and I could upgrade planes. I'm going to try and look at radios a bit first before I get the box. Any suggestions or warnings about the radios?
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the wind dragon is a good little flier , i had one , i gave it to a friend when i went for a more complex model , and as far as i know the dragon is still doing fine .I think it would be a great way to start r/c flying :)
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Mav, get the Wind Dragon first... here's why:
Flying alone ain't half as much fun as flying (or teaching) somebody else. Once you get in the groove with the cheapie, keep it around for the wifie or kids, cousins, nephews, guy in the RV space next ta yah.. ;)
Now, it's time fer the 'good stuff'.. for radio gear Futaba rules the roost. JR, Hitec and Airtronics also make good systems.
For electrics with aerobatics as the target, 4 channel is a minimum.. and you'll want mixing fuctions. Cost for a FM 4 channel system with Micro Rx, & 3 micro servos.. about 150 bucks. 2 Servo systems.. about 125 bucks. Good stuff.
Next, most ARF setups come with a motor/gear train & prop.. most don't have packs or motor controllers. Motor controller type (brushless/brushed) depends on motor type and battery type (nicad/NiMH or Lipoly)... average motor controller costs about 45 bucks.
Next; Batteries. Unngh.. (my specialty) Nicad, NiMH are the least expensive, LiPoly the most expensive, particularly in terms of controllers, chargers and occasionally burning down somebodys house.. on the plus side they offer significantly more endurance and offer a power to weight advantage not enjoyed ny Nicad or NiMH.
Chargers are very very important.. basic models about 50 bucks, models able to deal with various diffrent pack sizes and technolgies can run about 100 bucks or more.
lastly.. motors. Wild varieties out there.. the numbers will make yah ga-ga. Most popular and competent are brushless 'axi' types; a 3-D motor and controller combo is about 100 bucks for the more popular foamies. Here's my favorite 3-D foamie:
E-Flite 3-D Ultimate Review (http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=411)
The plane's only 50 bucks.. but to make it fly; figure on about a 400 dollar initial investment.. with the majority of that investment required to 'enjoy' the hobby from plane to plane.
Now, some of this gear can be aquired at under normal retail pricing.. buying used on RC Universe, RC Groups or Ebay such items as the basic radio gear (lotsa stanrd 4 and 5 channel systems for sale cheap.. folks move up to 6-10 channel systems all the time). Good deals on chargers can also be had in the used market place.
If yah need help or advice realtime, just gimmie a call at the shop 9-3 eastern; links on my webpage.
Cheers!
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The hardest thing in R/C is learning the rule.."Point the stick to the dipping wing"..when flying towards yourself..eg..on landing.
If you can visualize that you could prolly teach yourself.
Electrics are the wave of the future i tell ya..lost so many planes cause of engine failures(3 Top Flight F4u's)...You can get electrics to replace almost anything under a .60 size..and the new brushless motors with the new batteries are especiallly cool..they sound cool to(especially multi-prop planes where you dont have to worry bout tuning one engine to the other)
They even have R/C combat where your plane has a lazer Tx/Rx and if you press the trigger and capture a hit..it disables the opponent's engine for a few secs..It's available for that park flyer Slo-V as well so indoor R/C combat is another option too..
Kewlest in box electrics is the Park Zone line of planes.
http://www.parkzone.com
Check out the Stryker...All you need in 1 box..Store in trunk of car and keep it charged W the cigarrette lighter..See a nice field on a Sunday drive,pull over and let the airshow begin...You should see the stryker go with a brushless motor..Flies like a jet yet lands at a walking pace..It can survive hard landings(pusher prop) and replacement wings/parts are cheap.
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Styrker would be a bit fast for a beginner i wouldve thought ....
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not for novice..but something to look forward to.
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yep yr right there , would like one myself hehe they look fun :D , u seen the pony they do? very nice
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There are a couple of videos on that link as well.
http://www.parkzone.com
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Yea ive seen it ..want one ....
:D
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Hang,
Thanks bud, that's just the info I was looking for. I know me. If I get into this stuff I know I'll be pushing myself to get faster and more maneuverable planes in short order or atleast after I stop destroying the plane by the second flight. :D
I think the wingdragon or wind dragon will be the way I go. I hope I can find one locally as I rarely stay in one place long enough to start odering stuff. This is a kick as I am getting pumped about flying again. It only took a little over a year since I sold my Comanche for that to happen. :lol
Guys keep the advice and info coming!
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I'll throw in my two bits. If you're serious about making RC a hobby, it's better to start off with a high quality radio. Get a good computer controlled 7+ radio. Most on the market are capable of storing memories for several different airplanes, meaning you can use the same radio on 5 different planes. As you progress in skill you only have to purchase a plane, engine and servos since you already have the transmitter.
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Well I picked up a Slo-V and went to the flying field. I was able to talk to a local club's trainer and get a bit of advance help. I have a couple flights now and still have an airplane. It is very sensitive to wind so I didn't get very much flight time. The darn thing IS slow but spooky in it's responses to inputs. At one point I completed a loop. I didn't intend to loop it but the wind caught it and flipped the nose way up. Now it's going to be a grind to figure out how to get it up and down without hurting it. :eek:
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LOL.. took a big setta gnads to show up at a R/C field with a park flyer set up on surface frequency band! Glad yah did tho.. sounds like you got some decent help. Don't let the big pattern most R/C guys fly rattle yah.. most 'park flyer' flying is done 'in close' rather than 'out there'.
You'll have a blast! Pick your times to fly based completely on wind.. early morning and dusk are good times to step outside and toss it. I flew a Slo-V indoors at a local high school gym.. it's plenty agile enff to fly it under a street light in a shopping center parking lot. :)
It's a mite feeble on a 6 cell (7.2v) pack.. does much better with a 7 cell (8.4v) pack. I had a guy that was a ukie pilot, never tried R/C before. Stuck him on the pitchers mound at a little leauge field with a park flyer and told him to fly it around himself.. he had it knocked first flight.
Good luck!
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Got the 7 cell battery and it makes a big difference on flight length. I'm going to try to find a big open field somewhere close so I can play with it a bit and get used to it without having a bunch of other flyers watching.
There was a guy on the field that showed up with a scale P51. The wingspan was about 6' and hew was using a 4cycle overhead valve engine in it. He did some nice passes by the stands and gave us all a heart attack when he almost stalled it on landing short of the runway.
The field is on a small hill top. The runway is about 300' long but not flat. Each end of the runway has a steep dropoff with trees. One end is very close to a lake about 60 feet below and the planes in the pattern are flying over water on approach. The trees make it look like the plane is going to settle into the tops before it makes it to the runway. There was a little wind shear at each end too.
There werer 2 guys with electrics there. One was a semi scale P47, fast but not too maneuverable. The other guy had a profile 3D plane and made it look easy doing a lot of inverted low passes and flying into and out of the gaser plane pattern accross the runway on one end. He did pretty well other than needing a hand to launch his bird. He flew from crutches and had just one leg. One of the other guys said he usually flies helo's.
No one said anything negative about the electrics. A couple other guys said they were getting far more common now and that there was a decline locally in the nitro flyers numbers. At least there was a big difference in frequencies so the electrics didn't bother the other planes a bit.
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Yer on the path! Mosta my electrics didn't have landing gear.. why mess up the aerodynamics of a 6 minute flight for a 2 second takeoff or landing. ;) "Landing gears is fer overweight gassers that need some defense against a muffed landing approach."
I sense yer circling the hook now.. I predict that after yah get a coupla solo flights under yer belt (without a peanut gallery) you'll have found a new highly satisfactory way to kill time and annoy yer wife.
:D
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Best Trainer:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMU53**&P=0
This is a real wood/covering model, with a quality OS engine, quality Futaba FM radio.
All for $279 - really quite amazing.
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Don't mean to violate rule 13 again. I wanted to respond to this before, but didn't have the time to research what I wanted to show you.
I was first successful with the Dynaflight "Piece 'O' Cake glider for .049. Flew it till I crashed it and patched it, over and over.
Then, the Clancy design of the "Lazy Bee." What a really fine, slow, forgiving trainer airplane, available Ready To Fly. You can go electric or gas. I can't recommend it enough. You don't have to build it up, and you can go gas or electric. And I did it on my own.
This was my first real success. I still have it after about 11 flights.
The chord on this wing is ridiculas. It flies on a .15 gas motor - not to bad if you have a little space. The good thing is that it was originally made for electric. Check it out, bro.
Gunthr
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Here's a goal for you:
tomcat (http://www.big-boys.com/articles/f14model.html)