Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: BTW on June 21, 2005, 02:57:11 PM
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I trying to make a list of ACM/BFM that are important in Aces High, so that I might be able to go over them with trainers over time. Even if I can't do every one, I'd like to understand every one and their uses.
These are ones I can think of (though I'm not clear on all of them)
Emmelman
Double emmelman
high yo-yo
low yo yo
barrel roll
scissors
rolling scissors
split s
wing over
climbing spiral
barrel roll attack
Hammerhead
Chandel(sp?)
If some of these are redundant or not really needed, and I left out any please list.
Thanks
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Out of plane Immelman & Split-S?
Lag roll?
IMHO
It's good to know how maneuvers are looking and how maneuvers should perform. This help trainers job a lot.
Also it's essensial for combat you can perform those maneuvers without looking forward.
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Immelman
; )
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>>Immelman
<<
I meant emoo :D
also is a break turn considered a BFM/ACM?
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Most important thing is how you combine them.
Its like in a arcade skate board game... pulling the right combos is what gives you the victory.. ;)
Tex
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I plan on using the up, back view, followed by the tower view, a lot in my flying.
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>>Most important thing is how you combine them. <<
No doubt, but I really want to check out my basics. What I'm doing and calling a barrel roll might be some sloppy maneuver without a name :D
I really want to check out all the maneuvers over time with a trainer, to make sure I'm doing them right and recognizing them.
Like cooking, the fun part is whipping them up into a dinner, but I just want to make sure my ingredients are right :)
(i love cooking metaphores/analogies)
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LoL, dhaus...
I've learned quite a bit in this game, and the main thing is, simply find out what the plane does well then use that. Zeroes turn better than anything; 109 G-10s BnZ; LAmer 7s run away after a HO attempt that fails (J/K). Once you know the plane, then choose your tactics.
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I bet 1/2 that list is covered in write ups in the 479th Library (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=20) and if its not in an article, its probably in the film library. :)
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I suggest you start with the basics, then move up to more advanced ACM. It is important to learn all ACM and know how and when to execute them in any givin engagement.
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Brook's How to Fly and Fight in Air Warrior has some good basics on ACM. Learning the lowest speed at which your plane can go vertical and complete an immelman or loop is key. Kowing that speed for the enema's plane is equally important. That will let you know if the double immelman (among other acms) can work. (One of my favorite moves in AW in a P-38 was the double immel - using flaps a lot. The ones who followed me on the first could rarely manage the second - they either lost sight of me or stalled out.)
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Thanks for posting the link Murdr.
A lot of good info and films there.
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Dont talk cooking now... Im at work.. starving and litteraly watching paint dry...
But lets talk ACMs.. ;)
Personally I dont think they have to be perfect. As long as you do use throttle managment, rudder and flaps where it applies. After that if you execute it perfectly or not, who gives a damn.
Seriously.
What I would spend time and focus on is thinking through different situation and thinking:
"Where am I, where do I wana go, how do I get there, when do I wana get there and what does it cost."
This is the most important thinking.
The difference in lost E, time and position between doing the wrong manouver at the wrong time is much much bigger then doing the right manouver perfectly or not so perfectly.
People tend to focus so damn much at conserving E through the manouver instead of thinking of which manouver is better to use.
All the talk about "how do I use rudder and flaps to perfect my flat turn" makes me so ill. I know your not a flat turner but still it kind of shows the example well perfecting something that will give you a performance gain of say 3-4% when there are options that will give you 200% gain with 10s as little effort.
So yeah make sure you do them reasonably well, but then focus on...
"Where am I, where do I wana go, how do I get there, when do I wana get there and what does it cost."
What you should focus on especially in your barrell rolls and your immelmans is controlling the "streach" of them. How do you streach your barrell roll as high as possible, how do you tighten it. Learn to start it tight and then streach it to finish it of wide and vice versa.
Imho the barrellroll is THE most underrated ACM and THE most important one in US (non P38) planes, German Planes and Japanese planes.
Tex.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Imho the barrellroll is THE most underrated ACM and THE most important one in US (non P38) planes, German Planes and Japanese planes.
Tex.
Why not in P-38s? *scratches head*
ack-ack
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At least I find barrellroll manouvers soo much more effective in good roll rate planes... Though it might be that my timing is just off in worse roll rate planes...
Tex
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A good barrel roll with an enemy on your six under d400 can start a rolling scissors if you perform it right. But don't let your self get into this situation in the first place :). You can also use a barrel roll to slow down your closure rate and get a better shot on an enemy. A good variation on the barrel roll is the Roll away in which is a good move to get a snapshot at an enemy that is breaking(left or right).
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PHBL/KAG
place head between legs/kiss arse goodbye )
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Originally posted by Eagler
PHBL/KAG
place head between legs/kiss arse goodbye )
The all time classic BFM if there ever was one! :lol
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Good fights last night.
One thing I was thinking about is that you could start your opening move a bit earlier. You tend to start it after I pass you not just before. But then again that might be because I forced you to push low and didnt let you start it. Just be aware that you wana start it before you actually merge.
Also each time I got on you I did the same thing. Tilted immelman. I ended up getting great angles on you from that opening move.
Might wana work on countering that.
Other then that very good fights.
Tex
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I enjoyed it, Tex, and thanks for the tips. I note a big problem I have is when I get into a bad situation, it gets very bad quickly. I think I try to fix the situation too quickly and wind up spinning the plane. Lets do it again soon, it was a lot of fun and a whole lot more useful than chasing running, augering planes around the MA
:D
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I was playing around quite a bit with different merges and opening moves.
Each time I did the tilted immelman opening move it worked. I think your main problem isnt "fixing a bad situation" its more "recognizing different opening moves". If you dont recognize a potential problem fast enough its to late to fix it when you do.
This is where filming duels is very helpfull. Film it review it. Note the films where you get screwed and watch for what happened just before you got screwed and then what the enemy did next. That way you will learn to recognize the situation and can work on finding counter manouvers.
Tex
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On the subject of aim, I think I've figured out one thing I'm doing wrong. I don't think about where my bullets are going until I hit or am about to hit the trigger ( and thats without tracers). I have a feeling I should know exactly where my bullet stream is at all times. When I'm in loop, yo yo , scissors, whatever, I should be able to viualize where my bullet stream is, shooting or not. I believe thinking about it just before pulling the trigger is much too late.
I dunno, just something I'm experimenting with.
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On an equal plane/e merg I try to do an efficient 3g emmel or double emmel, depending on energy. The target has the option of chopping and pulling hard for 1 shot oppotunity. If he misses, I own him (provided I can shoot). If he matches the efficient emmel, its a new ball game and new merg at the top.
That how I try to approach a merge anyway. Don't know if its right, but it seems to make sense from an e point of view. Excessive g's burn e.
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Hmm, and maybe the next step is viualizing where the other plane's bullet stream is all the time(?)
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On an equal plane/e merg I try to do an efficient 3g emmel or double emmel,
Immelman.. ;)
Anyways I think this is and the rest of the thread can hold a bit of the answer.
You are maybe focusing more on your manouver it self and performing it well then focusing on what you are doing in relation to your enemy.
While beeing proactive instead of reactive is the key to winning fights you have to be aware of your enemy. By beeing proactive it doesnt mean you fly your entirely own fight, after all it takes two to tango.
If you learn to read your enemies position, e and flight path you will know where he is gonna go. There arnt *that* many ways he can go. Especially if you learn about the strengths and weaknesses of his plane.
By reading him you will be able to figure out where you need to go. By constantly reading him and trying to beat him to the punch you will be flying in a proactive way. Instead of reacting to where he went and compensating for what he did.
I mean it really doesnt matter if you pulled a perfect 3g double immelman if I pulled a tilted one and managed to cut the angle on you and get in on your six.
Constantly knowing where your shots will land in relation to your and your enemies position would be awsome. Its something I wish I did know as well. But that takes a ton of practice. Im not saying this is right but its what I do instead. I learn a few shots and I work to set them up. Then I try to add on to that with more angles and positions to fire.
Key is to not ever force shots. Know how to get the nose on target without forcing it there. Forcing shots not only bleeds tons of e but also makes you loose alot of position and puts you into huge stall risk.
In my Jug I know exactly how much 1 additional notch of flaps gives me in terms of turning. So if Im in a lead turn and I know 1 notch of flaps can allow me to put the nose where I want it I do it but if I cant I dont even go for the shot. I force it Im dead.
Tex
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roll turn
especially if your in a fast rolling highspeed plane against a tighter turning opponent.
takes a bit of guts but its effective.
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Originally posted by BTW
>>Most important thing is how you combine them. <<
No doubt, but I really want to check out my basics. What I'm doing and calling a barrel roll might be some sloppy maneuver without a name :D
I really want to check out all the maneuvers over time with a trainer, to make sure I'm doing them right and recognizing them.
Like cooking, the fun part is whipping them up into a dinner, but I just want to make sure my ingredients are right :)
(i love cooking metaphores/analogies)
No, most important is when you use them. As far as the sloppy maneuver with out a name, as long as it works, whats the problem? When I go into a fight, I don;t think about what move I am going to pull. I see where the bud guy(s) is, guess on the speed and go from there.
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Don't get me wrong - its not so I can say - "Hey look at my absolutely FABULUTH barrel roll!"
But I find myself in this situation a lot. My SA aint the greatest, and sometimes in the MA if you want a fight, you have to take chances (You should know all about that Dedalos :)). So there I am in my 220 mph spit 9 with a spit 5 saddled up on my 6.
It seems I have two choices there - prepare to die or try to get him to overshoot. It just seems the chances of him overshooting are greatly enhanced if I do a scissors or barrel roll correctly.
Thats the only reason I'm curious if I'm doing them right - not for the sake of a pretty move or so I can script a fight.
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Isnt that "Tilted Immle" your refering to known as a "Chandelle" ?
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Skidding turn..
If you turn left, chop throttle and kick full right rudder.
If you turn right, chop throttle and kick full left rudder.
Incredibly important maneuver for fast, high performance planes, which purpose is to dump very large amount of E within a very short time. It's absolutely vital in latching onto slower and nimbler planes, and especially useful for planes that have great climb and acceleration. Even more important, for planes that cannot use any kind of flap function during speeds of over 200mph.
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skid turning is usually a last ditch defense in the ma, it leaves you in a bad E situation usually, i'd rather use the E for a series of snap rolls and direction changes in a BZ bird. Also alot of the newer folk if they try a fast skid turn will encounter the dreaded 'dont move the stupid stick too fast dummy' line.
It is great for like using 109 , p51 vs spitardos or speghetti birds if you're in the dominant position and want to try and end it fast by sliding your nose around and gettin in snap/deflection shots.