Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Keiler on June 23, 2005, 02:31:47 PM
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Was just pracrtising landing the FW190A5/A8 as well as te 109s of different flavors.
What I noticed is that both, and particularily the 190 series, are pretty "jumpy" touching down.
Whereas I dont have problems to perform a smooth landing in a jug or twinengines, let alone bombers, I sometimes bump along half the runway before I finally touch down in the aforementioned planes.
Thats what I do:
align to the runway with at least half a klick distance, maybe 200 feet or 300 high.
I cut back until I reach 180 IAS, lower flaps 2 notches.
Lower gear when I drop below 150.
Touching down at about 120.
Even when I touch down at a low vertical lateral, I often start to bounce, and the 190 seems to resonate into a kangaroo which had me break off my landing run...
Dont remember that from AH1,
So, any hints from the pros?
Thanks a lot!
Matt
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there is yet a landing with ym dora that does not bounce a bit.
i have even come in at 90 IAS full flaps, and held it until i did not have enough airspeed to have lift.
i must have been only a foot off the runway, and i still bounced ; (
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JB73!
:D
Man you are my newbie question answerer no1 :D
:aok
Yeah seems like the german engineers forgot to use DAMPERS on their landing gears ;)
at least in AH2.
Ah well.. seems to I have just to practice more. And get a better rig for control.
Cheers!
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lol i just surf the forum very fast.
id say 90% of the time i dont even notice who i am replying to, just read, and see if i have relevant comments.
; )
sir
as far as a "better rig" in my opinion i have the best.
it is a munge of stuff, but together it is great.
i use an x45 throttle, of course the stick itself still needs to be attached. i use it because of the rotary trim controls, and the rudder rocker is for moving my head side to side.
i use a CH fighterstick pro, and i would change the size of it a bit because i dont reach everything well. and i would make the hat button a different shape
i use CH pro pedals for the rudder, and the toe brakes. i would get simped's with toe brakes but i have yet to win the lottery
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120 for touchdown is to fast.
Best way is to flare onto the runway gently at just below stall speed. Fly like you wrote, but in the end at the start of the runway be 5 feet above the ground and cut the throttle, try to keep the plane lvl with pulling the elevator.
When the speed is to low to maintain lvl flight the plane will slowly drop onto the runway, no bounces. Takes some praktice to get right though.
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Hmmm CH fighterstick. I had that one for gameport, I liked the functionality.
But it used to spike quite a bit.
Has this improved?
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Thanks Schutt!
Will try that.
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Originally posted by Schutt
When the speed is to low to maintain lvl flight the plane will slowly drop onto the runway, no bounces. Takes some praktice to get right though.
if you can do it in a 190 consistantly, please please let em knwo LOL
i like the fighterstick... have had it for a year now, and not a single problem other than not being to be able to reach the hat well
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*comes in perfectly alligned for a landing*
*pulls up gear*
*belly slides it*
*only breaks prop*
*opens the cannopy*
Where is my beer?
Is that styleish enough for you? ;)
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I asked for HELP, not to copy what I ALREADY do :lol
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All good advice here.
One thing to think about is that all landings except carrier landings are controlled stalls. (carrier landings are controlled crashes)
The biggest thing about landing is getting prepared. Get your plane at the proper approach speed, trim, gears down and flaps early. Don't leave this to the last minute. Now I realise that there are times in AH that we are trying to get a plane down in a hurry to land those kllls with bandits in the air. In those situations all bets are off and a skid landing is just as appropriate.
One of the keys to a good landing is proper trim. Trying to land with combat-trim on is like a wrestling match. Every time your flight characteristics change re-trim your plane.
Reduce speed and TRIM
Drop flaps and TRIM
Lower gear and TRIM
You should try and come over the end of the runway close to the planes stall speed. When you are a couple feet off the runway, chop throttle and flair the nose up. You should settle down on all 3 wheels.
In the A5 when I'm landing the stall horn will go off just before my wheels hit the ground. Now in the Ki-84 I never hear it. That thing just floats down like a feather. F4Us are a whole 'nother beastie. Those things need arresting cables even on land. :D
A good practice is to make your approach and instead of landing try and keep the wheels just off the pavement holding the plane there. This way you will get used to how your plane behaves under those flight characteristics.
It great your trying to safely land your virtual aircraft. I now those virtual taxpayers and getting tired of paying for those damaged or destroyed planes because our pilots only care about those kills. :lol
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Landing a hog, isn't much different to landing any of the other tail draggers we have here.
I posted a blurb on landing the hog in the thread a couple of posts down titled "Takeoff model".
have a read, and hope it helps
Cheers,
RTR
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Down elevator trim seems to get rid of that bouncing you're talking about. Combat Trim throws elevator trim to the very top at landing speeds, causing the plane to rise without input.
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ditto on what RTR and RightFoot posted,
The HOG(F4U series planes) is one of the easiest planes to FLARE on landing ( or is that because I fly it all the time:D )
elevator Trim is key, as most noted here.
and as also mentioned, practice makes perfect.
one should practice both normal landing approaches and Hot Landing approaches.
so when the time is at present you are comfortable with landing HOT ( fast quick landing )
ROME was not built in a Day, trying to master this flight Sim will take your entire life span as well..........
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Raise gear right befor ya touch ...
Bounce problem solved :D
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LOL Roscoroo, I'll bet you are the maintenance chiefs Faaaavorite driver!
:D
RTR
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
*comes in perfectly alligned for a landing*
*pulls up gear*
*belly slides it*
*only breaks prop*
*opens the cannopy*
Where is my beer?
Is that styleish enough for you? ;)
7/10
next time try to bounce so you can break wings and tail and I'll give you a 10/10 :)
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Originally posted by RTR
Landing a hog, isn't much different to landing any of the other tail draggers we have here.
I posted a blurb on landing the hog in the thread a couple of posts down titled "Takeoff model".
have a read, and hope it helps
Cheers,
RTR
Yup, read it. Great advice.
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Thanks a lot people,
when I condense it, it boils down to:
-100 IAS and below
-riding the stall
-touch down on all 3 wheel at once.
-practise
-more practise
Right?
:D
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You can cheat in a lot of planes and start retracting a notch or two of flaps toward the end of your flare. Plants that sucker right down.
Remember that how slow you get isn't necessarily as important as controlling your desent rate. Flaring all the way until a stall drops you from flight onto the runway will bounce you back up. You need to flare with your back wheel a little lower then your front holding level so that you can lower your front wheels while you create a controlled decent rate for that perfect three point landing. It works like that in this game, anyway.
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Ok I got better thanks to all your help and suggestions :)
Flaps 3 notches, reeeaaally slow, and nose up does the trick. Occasional bumb, but marginal.
And yeah, wrong trim screws up a LOT, be it taking off or landing.
Matt
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use the hand brake (http://rocklee2.free.fr/appontageYP80.wmv)
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LMAO!!!!!!!
Thats nearly as good as Ace Ventura's parking skillz :D
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in planes that seem to have superballs for tires like the 190s.
If you can otherwise make a decent landing cept for the bounce
Try applying the breaks as your touching down.
Trust me it works
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One trick I've found useful when landing the F4U's, is to avoid using the brakes at all until the landing roll is shown to be under control.
Then I use brakes to stop, but do also use them to help stear as well.
Because I used to have trouble keeping the nose straight during the roll, I felt like if I slammed the brakes on full as soon as I touched down that it would shorten the roll and I would have less chance of doing that nasty F4U ground loop. I eventually found the opposite to be true.
'Course, when landing while missing one wingtip, I do usually end up deviating from my normal landing routine a bit, hehe. Actually, RTB'ing and landing with both wingtips missing is actually much easier than with one missing.
I also find it helps to touch on all 3 wheels JUST as you stall, and keep the stick back to lock the tail-wheel.
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always found alternate braking ( C & V keys ) back and forth slow me down alot faster than hitting both brakes at once and also keeps me in a straight roll better as well. hardly ever/never use the pull stick back to lock tailwheel, don't like the crutch, ya know
but different strokes for different folks......
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
*comes in perfectly alligned for a landing*
*pulls up gear*
*belly slides it*
*only breaks prop*
*opens the cannopy*
Where is my beer?
Is that styleish enough for you? ;)
That's the way I do it, plane stops real quick. You can still use the rudder to steer if needed :)
While you're messing with all the 3 point landing & tail-wheel stuff some moron will probably vulch you for your realism efforts
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one really strange "training aid" is to come in wheels up and break the prop without actually bellying the plane in...then to fly it down the runway using flaps and trim to keep it airborne as long as possible....basically your in the transition layer and simply can flare the nose up at the very edge of the envelope...once you get the "feel" you can come in "bounceless" in anything...not to mention very short roll outs....
of course usually I just slam em on down at 200 or so (on those rare occasions I ever get to RTB:)
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get on the ground fast and stop=dump the flaps when landing 190 as you almost touch down this will prevent the bouncing and add weight to the a/c since it will no longer be in flying configuration....to prevent "porpoising" on the runway also. If your dump flaps and dont feel/see the a/c drop with each tick of flap retracting you are landing too fast for this game.
Or you are not putting the a/c into a neutral attitude on touch down because of pressure on the stick, stick trim or stick needs calibrating. try letting go of the stick as you touch down. this works well if landing at highspeed.
Or you are stalling the a/c too high in the air or aoa is too high for your speed and rate of descent.
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whats this talk of puttin gear down?
i get about 190 ias, line up on runway and land her on the belly. slides to a stop nice and quick. :aok
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Guys,
thank you so much for all your input! :aok
After many more hours of just taking off and touching down, and your hints and tips, I am getting a hold on how to do it!
Seems my most dominant problem was that I couldnt guess where the runway is relative to me. Or how to guess the terminal glidepath since its pretty difficult to peek over the hoods of a 109 or 190.
Getting down with an occasional bump, but nothing that catapults me back up 10 feet in the air as it used to be
:D
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If you line up good and come in over the runway you should notice the runway appear to the left and right of the engine cowl or nose as you descend. That's what I use as my que to chop throttle and begin my nose-up flare to prevent a prop strike and get the tail wheel on the ground. If you want to raise your flaps to prevent climbing, now is the time to do that also.