Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SMIDSY on June 24, 2005, 01:22:58 AM
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for as long as i can remember i have seen clothing with the american flag on it. if you are one of these people wearing such shirts, hats, pants, etc. keep this in mind: the US flag code section 8. article D states "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery." just a heads up if you want to be patriotic.
also, the recent congressional decree that flags should not be burned is in direct violation of section 8, article K of the flag code which states "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." so dont be afraid of disposing of old tattered flags in such a manner.:aok here are examples:
GOOD!
(http://www.wausauamericanlegion.com/images/FDC_04_tamara_flag%20.jpg)
BAD!!
(http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols2/flag.burning.jpg)
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Up until this past week, I would have cared....but all of you can wipe your bellybutton with it now for all I care. We no longer live in the USA..it's more like the PRA (People's Republic of America)....
And this from a "proud" member of the people's military.
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You say the proper way to disposed of a soiled or worn out flag is to burn it, but the House recently approved an amendmend banning burning of flags, but it is against the flag code to display a worn out or soiled flag, but you cannot destroy it according to the flag code but...
Norman, coordinate...
Please explain...
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Flag desecration is a crime to humanity. Period!!!
Les
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Sounds a bit Roman!
Don't let the standard fall and all that!
I had a pair of boxers made out of our flag once!
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Are we talking about the Constitutional Amendment passed by the House this week?
The one that doesn't mention flag burning?
That still has to get passed the Senate (by supermajority) as well as 3/4 of the State legislatures.
Personally, I don't think it's going to survive the Senate. I guess it really depends on the current public reaction.
-Sik
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Ever seen an American flag bikini?
Desecration is in the eye of the beholder, me thinks.
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I just want to know who taught that lady in the "GOOD" picture to salute.
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Originally posted by oboe
Ever seen an American flag bikini?
Desecration is in the eye of the beholder, me thinks.
I have to agree with that! lol. Nothing like vague language in the law.
-Sik
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Originally posted by AdmRose
I just want to know who taught that lady in the "GOOD" picture to salute.
Steven Segal in "Under Siege" lol
-Sik
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Long live the Emperor!
(phone rings.... listens in shock as my neighbor tells me my wife was taken away to jail and my kids sent to a DSS home after stUrm troopers searched my house (no need for one of those old fashioned warrant thingies) and report discovering a dirty US flag hanging on a wall in my garage. And oh yeah.
I have no rights to visit them (if they would even tell me where they were) and they have not been charged my wife yet but are not entitled to legal counsel either. and that I should stay right where I Was....
Then my neighbor gave me the coup de gras.... Oh by the way!... the town manager has decreed that a Taco Bell would be more economical on my property than my family in our meager home. Then added that the sheriff called the rest in the neighbors and "highly recommended" that people might be wise to ensure the town burgermeist__ er town managers sons Little League team won next years playoffs...)
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Steven Segal in "Under Siege" lol
-Sik
All I remember from that movie is the cake scene.
And....
This is about as controversial as I plan on getting in here anymore. I mean... Can I say it is an idiotic knee-jerk reactionary fubar law passed by the house that is just one more step in the erosion of our rights as Americans?
huh?
Can I say that?
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Yes. No one took away all of your freedom of speech rioghts yet. ;)
But you ARE on "the list" in the downtown office now.
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Would say burning a crisp new flag, just bought, at some protest is not the same as disposing by burning of an old tattered flag.
Not to go OT, but a few years ago when the Frenchies were on one of their big seperation kicks they were burning Canadian flags but wanted an apoligy from English Canada because some English had thrown a Quebec flag on the ground and stomped on it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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flag burning has nothing to do with speech... anymore than burning anything does.
If you buy a flag you should be able to do anything you want with it so long as it doesn't break any laws or endanger anyone.
In most cities if you painted your house polka dot or zebra stiped or flourecent you would get cited for the same thing that you would get cited for if you painted it like a flag. Is that "free speech"?
In my opinion "free speech" has to do with the written and spoken word and nothing else.
lazs
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Good point. It's obvious then that the US also needs a Constitutional amendment to stop people from painting thier property in zebra stripes or in bright pink with purple poka-dots.
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It has nothing to do with free speech... it has to do with local ordinances and property values and "attractive nusance" laws.
You can't burn anything downtown without a permit... Is that an infringement on "free speech" or just a fire and air quality ordinance?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
If you buy a flag you should be able to do anything you want with it so long as it doesn't break any laws or endanger anyone.
Well, thats the whole point of the amendment which has moved through the House. The "law" governing what you can and can't do with your flag is changing (read that becoming more restrictive).
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Originally posted by oboe
Well, thats the whole point of the amendment which has moved through the House. The "law" governing what you can and can't do with your flag is changing (read that becoming more restrictive).
Its the WAR people! The war is ON!! Its those damn liberal pansy women congressman that are curtailing our freedoms! ITS WAR!!
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oboe... I understand that but... there should be no way that such a law could be made. Free speech is a stretch in the extreme tho... I would think that private property rights would be enough... "you own the flag? ok, then do what you want so long as you don't break any local laws."
By "laws" I mean that the damn law against burning private property like a flag should have no other restriction than burning anything should...if you are allowed to burn trash there then you can burn a flag there.
lazs
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Burn the flag if you must. But before you do you better burn a few other things. Better burn your house and your car, and all of your clothes, and be sure to burn your TV too. Because none of those things would exist without five white stripes, seven red stripes, and a hell of a lot of stars!!! :mad:
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Originally posted by lazs2
if you are allowed to burn trash there then you can burn a flag there.
lazs
why you calling our flag trash?!?!
:mad:
burn lazs!!!
:aok
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come try it sissy boy!
Anything I own becomes trash if I own it long enough. I am a consumer.
lazs
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Burning your trash is not an insult to veterans who fought and died for the country though. A flag, as the symbol of our Nation, is different than other private property.
The whole thing is a stupid waste of time, IMO. Its just one more law on the books to spend money arguing about and enforcing, appealing, etc.
I find burning the flag as protest ignorant in the extreme, because you are desecrating the symbol of the Nation that protects your right to dissent (or should anyway). Its an act really unworthy of any American. Protesting our government by burning the flag is simply illogical.
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let's play a game, guess the paraphrased quotee...
"while i may not agree with what you say, i will defend with my death your right to say it."
an anti-flag burning amendment is more insulting to the vets who have died for it than it being burned in protest.
think about that... unless it's too convoluted.
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Originally posted by Suave
Burn the flag if you must. But before you do you better burn a few other things. Better burn your house and your car, and all of your clothes, and be sure to burn your TV too. Because none of those things would exist without five white stripes, seven red stripes, and a hell of a lot of stars!!! :mad:
Nelson Muntz for president!
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oboe... I agree. There needs to be no law tho. People get insulted all the time. I am not gonna curb my freedom based on the possibility of insulting someone tho unless it is my choice.
lazs
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"....none of those things would exist without five white stripes, seven red stripes, and a hell of a lot of stars!!! "
lol
All this time I thought it was because I did well in school, got a good job and worked very hard.
Makes me wonder how in hell people who live in countries like Poland, Samoa or Chile are able to do it without "five white stripes, seven red stripes, and a hell of a lot of stars!!!"
What a condundrum!
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Westy, it's from a Simpsons episode. The excerpt in particular was from an elementary student's patriotic essay on the flag.
So don't hurt yourself too much trying to work it out. :D
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I never watched the Simpsons. So I did not get that but I guess I should have taken it as sarcasm? If so I don't get why he punctuated his post with the angry face thingy. Seems a wink or smiley would have made that clearer.
oh
obligatory
:aok
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Originally posted by lazs2
oboe... I agree. There needs to be no law tho. People get insulted all the time. I am not gonna curb my freedom based on the possibility of insulting someone tho unless it is my choice.
lazs
I gotta go with lazs on this one. People do not have the right to not be offended. There are people that believe otherwise, and the right to not be offended is feverently belived in on many college campus. Ironically, these are the same people that have turned the sexist Valentine's Day into the non-sexist Vagina Day celebrations....
I apoligize if any sarcasm drips on people's shoes...
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This is another one of those feel good laws where it doesnt really affect anything, yet they can go on campaign trails and tell their constiuents and the media, hey look we support the troops and the war, we passed a law banning flag burning. Why not just wear one of those lapel flags. Worst thing I have seen in awhile. Burning the flag was declared the ultimate form of free speech against the government. It is supposed to be done "Only" in extreme circumstances when all other options for demonstration for change have been exhausted. I wouldnt burn one but I don't want a law saying it's illegal. I wonder if Germany had a similar law regarding it's Nazi emblem???
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Originally posted by Shane
let's play a game, guess the paraphrased quotee...
"while i may not agree with what you say, i will defend with my death your right to say it."
an anti-flag burning amendment is more insulting to the vets who have died for it than it being burned in protest.
think about that... unless it's too convoluted.
dayum... gonna have to record this day on the calander... I actually agree with Shane on something.
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I think laz and I agree on this one - no law is necessary.
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Ditto.
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Originally posted by Suave
Burn the flag if you must. But before you do you better burn a few other things. Better burn your house and your car, and all of your clothes, and be sure to burn your TV too. Because none of those things would exist without five white stripes, seven red stripes, and a hell of a lot of stars!!! :mad:
*Ahem* It's 7 red stripes, and 6 white.
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"*Ahem* It's 7 red stripes, and 6 white."
Winnie the Pooh voice; It's from the Simpsons you know
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Damn Chairboy, you should've waited untill somebody agreed with it first before you explained it. :p
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Heh, sorry Suave. BTW, I agree with Lisa's sentiment in her modified essay. I wonder how good the government polital bots that spider the web are at interpreting that last sentence and classifying me appropriately? :D
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Yup, If I burn lazs's flag I have commited a crime...if I burn one that I own its no one's business.
hmmm just had a thought, do I really own anything in this country anymore?
shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
hmmm just had a thought, do I really own anything in this country anymore?
The land you live on: SCOTUS says 'sorta but not really'. I started a checklist in response with that as #1, but I got depressed by the time I hit #8 without slowing down of things that we don't own that it seems like we should, so I'll stick with the recent newsworthy loss of land.
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This issue just serves as an example of how far out of touch the Dem and Rep party are with the american public. I mean they can't even pander correctly anymore.
They're throwing off their jackets and rolling up their sleeves getting hard at work writing legislation on the great big flag burning problem and the war on steroids. Because they think this will make them look like Captain America in the eyes of the voter.
But don't worry, emplyment is on the up. Wallmart is hiring, on capital hill even.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Heh, sorry Suave. BTW, I agree with Lisa's sentiment in her modified essay. I wonder how good the government polital bots that spider the web are at interpreting that last sentence and classifying me appropriately? :D
Yeah, the last part of that episode, when the senator gets busted for accepting bribes, that was the most saddening bit of Simpson's satire that I've seen to date.
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Originally posted by Suave
Burn the flag if you must. But before you do you better burn a few other things. Better burn your house and your car, and all of your clothes, and be sure to burn your TV too. Because none of those things would exist without five white stripes, seven red stripes, and a hell of a lot of stars!!! :mad:
Damn!! It must be a miracle - no flag over here but I still appear to have a house, car, tv AND clothes - which press organisation should I inform to ensure full coverage?
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You just punked yourself.
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Originally posted by lazs2
flag burning has nothing to do with speech... anymore than burning anything does.
If you buy a flag you should be able to do anything you want with it so long as it doesn't break any laws or endanger anyone.
In most cities if you painted your house polka dot or zebra stiped or flourecent you would get cited for the same thing that you would get cited for if you painted it like a flag. Is that "free speech"?
In my opinion "free speech" has to do with the written and spoken word and nothing else.
lazs
The Supreme Court disagrees. The 1st Amendment guarantees freedom of expression, not just speech specifically.
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I think what they shoulda done or will do is..
It is unlawful, and unpatriotic, to burn the American flag when it is in prime condition, desicrating the flag to remove it from it's prime condition, dragging, painting, stepping on, etc, will be eligiable to fines and imprisonment.
The correct way to dispose of the flag is in a ceremonial burning after which it has flown freely and proudly above the land and troops of the United States of America, and is war torn, tatterd, or faded.
Burning the flag for any other reason not stated in the above paragraph is eligible to fines and imprisonment and community service.
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I would of edited more but the new 5-min rule didn't allow it..but I think it's almost at perfection..
Minus minor details..
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Originally posted by Hawklore
The correct way to dispose of the flag is in a ceremonial burning after which it has flown freely and proudly above the land and troops of the United States of America, and is war torn, tatterd, or faded.
Bah... burning is the preferred method, but not the only way.
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My favorite part of the "make flag burning illegal to protect liberty" movement is when irony reaches critical mass and causes an explosion.
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Wearing the flag on a tee shirt is not a violation of the code.
The article 8 you describe, is wearing the the flag itself, around your body. (Like a naked playmate drapped in an American flag, that's anti-code).
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Originally posted by Schaden
no flag over here but I still appear to have a house, car, tv AND clothes - which press organisation should I inform to ensure full coverage?
You should forget the press and notify your TV service provider.
-Sik
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Surely the freedom to burn the flag is exactly what flag itself represents? That very freedom.
If the flag itself become more important than the freedom it represents then it loses it's value as a symbol of freedom. Thus it becomes worthy of being burnt.
What is more important? The freedom to burn the flag or the flag itself? You can always replace a flag because in truth a flag is only a piece of cloth. A loss of freedom is harder to replace.
Will people now start to burn the flag in protest at the loss of freedom this law entails?
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This freedom of speech/expression stuff will be all a moot point in a few years.
If current trends continue, this will be our flag:
(http://www.geocities.com/sfs_tie_pilot/PRA.GIF)