Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Raider179 on June 24, 2005, 11:24:15 AM
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Is this the best we got?
An Italian judge has ordered the arrest of 13 CIA agents for allegedly helping deport an imam to Egypt as part of U.S. anti-terrorism efforts, an Italian official familiar with the investigation said Friday.
Investigators traced the agents through check-in details at Milan hotels and their use of Italian cell phones during the operation, the reports said. All the agents are American and include three women, Il Giorno said.
Although I don't like the snatching of foriegners on foreign soil damn at least try to be sneaky about it. Use of Hotels and Italian Cell phones. LMAO how bout we equip our people with "safe houses" and satellite phones. And Italy you are now part of the axis of evil.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050624/D8AU0KV00.html
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Heh. BUSTED!
Being an "operator" myself though, I wouldn't make a blanket statement about the CIA being stupid though. They have a tough dirty job to do and they're going to screw up on occasion, no question. One busted operation after the post-9/11 reorganization, and now they're stupid? I don't think so. They have to ignore an awful lot of hatred just to come in to work each day, and no reasonable person (IMHO) would question the necessity of having someone around to do the jobs they do.
I WILL point a finger and chuckle though, 'cause they tried to be sneeky and got BUSTED!
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Actually it was their "Cloaks and Daggers" that gave them away.
:rolleyes:
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On another note, that has got to be a huge violation of international law. Imagine American Citizens being snatched off the streets of Europe and taken to middle eastern countries and "interrogated". We would bomb someone's country into dust (if it wasnt already) if they did that to an american.
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Originally posted by Raider179
On another note, that has got to be a huge violation of international law. Imagine American Citizens being snatched off the streets of Europe and taken to middle eastern countries and "interrogated". We would bomb someone's country into dust (if it wasnt already) if they did that to an american.
Nice fantasy.. but sorry, our govenment don't give a rats behind about us as individuals in foriegn countries. In fact, we're pretty much held as laughing stocks around the world.. you can insult us, rob us, behead us, kidnap, rape and kill our women and kids at will anywhere on the planet... but if some SOB comes over here and BOMBS us, well, then; we're gonna get jiggy on some foriegn soil in a helluva hurry.
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The Army does a better job at that sort of thing than the CIA anymore. For the last 30 years the Army has been expanding it's intel collection organizations and human intel networks, while the CIA have been having theirs reduced and dismantled.
Remember Pablo Escobar? The government ran a contest to see which organization was better at hunting and catching people, the Army or the CIA. The CIA lost, and Pablo is dead now.
Is that book anygood btw ?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Nice fantasy.. but sorry, our govenment don't give a rats behind about us as individuals in foriegn countries. In fact, we're pretty much held as laughing stocks around the world.. you can insult us, rob us, behead us, kidnap, rape and kill our women and kids at will anywhere on the planet... but if some SOB comes over here and BOMBS us, well, then; we're gonna get jiggy on some foriegn soil in a helluva hurry.
Yeah but see the difference here is you are talking individuals/terrorists versus a Country. Yes individuals can do those things you describe but can you give an example of a Soveriegn Country doing that to Americans?
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Originally posted by Raider179
Yeah but see the difference here is you are talking individuals/terrorists versus a Country. Yes individuals can do those things you describe but can you give an example of a Soveriegn Country doing that to Americans?
iran , US embassy, and no , they worn't "students".
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Originally posted by john9001
iran , US embassy, and no , they worn't "students".
Oh then perhaps you forgot the failed "resuce" mission or the 20+ years of isolation we have given them. And don't think they aren't next on the list. Not to mention this was embassy staff that got taken hostage in a Coup. That also doesnt count because it was IN IRAN. Now see if you can name a time when Iranian foriegn agents went and snatched an American from the streets of Germany or Italy then you can compare.
Do you even read the threads and their contexts or just post?
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Originally posted by eagl
Heh. BUSTED!
Being an "operator" myself though, I wouldn't make a blanket statement about the CIA being stupid though.
...you fly F-15s for the CIA?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
...you fly F-15s for the CIA?
Nah, he flyes mail and old grannies to Nantucket but he freaks out the local control tower with quotes from Iron Eagle and Top Gun as he comes in to land.
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I fly F-16s for the CIA and I keep a collection of scorpions to help out with intra-service rivalries. Useful little suckers.
Er... In the USAF, the people up on the pointy end of the spear, those who are in "operations" jobs, are sometimes referred to as "operators".
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If ya run around in the summer with trenchcoats on, what can you expect.....
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Nice fantasy.. but sorry, our govenment don't give a rats behind about us as individuals in foriegn countries. In fact, we're pretty much held as laughing stocks around the world.. you can insult us, rob us, behead us, kidnap, rape and kill our women and kids at will anywhere on the planet... but if some SOB comes over here and BOMBS us, well, then; we're gonna get jiggy on some foriegn soil in a helluva hurry.
Hang, an opinion about US government's attitude towards it's citizens is absolutely opposite here.
Five Americans in trouble - and US sends a Tarawa helicopter-carrier with a regiment of Marines to rescue them.
Even in Soviet times we didn't have such an attitude towards our citisens.
In 1991 when we had a "coup" here - I was in a Young Pioneers (soviet version of boy-scouts) camp 100km from Msk, having good time with leaders, 18-20 years old, just as I was. We had an American girl with us, who's host simply dropped her at our "camp" because he got tired of speaking English. She really helped us in that lack of information that lasted for 3 days: we had a short-wave radio, but all stations broadcasting in Russian and English (!!!) were jammed, so we tuned to some French station, and she translated what she understood to English, and I voiced it in Russian.
Most of us seriously expected a US helicopter to fly over our "camp" to rescue her.
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i'm sorry, but if even Italy -and that's not France that you love to bash- thinks this country's operatives have gone 'beyond the call of duty' in a very bad way, something is very wrong with the way this country is waging the war on terror. OBL is still at large, the Talibans are probably making a comeback in Afghanistan, and we are running low on troops to fight insurgents and fresh terrorists in Iraq.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by eagl
Er... In the USAF, the people up on the pointy end of the spear, those who are in "operations" jobs, are sometimes referred to as "operators".
Ah, well certainly better than being called "peaches".
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Don't wage war on terror try and work out why these people hate you! then there might not be a need for a war on terror. Just a thought!
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do these tactics surprise anyone or is it the fact that they got caught?
Back in the days of the cold war this stuff happend all the time. If agents got caught neither country would publicise it usually because both countrys were doing it. They'd basically "get one on credit"
This chicken little attitude towards the current administration is REALLY getting old.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
do these tactics surprise anyone or is it the fact that they got caught?
Back in the days of the cold war this stuff happend all the time. If agents got caught neither country would publicise it usually because both countrys were doing it. They'd basically "get one on credit"
This chicken little attitude towards the current administration is REALLY getting old.
Tactics. Apparently they were staying in expensive hotels and using Italian cellphones.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Tactics. Apparently they were staying in expensive hotels and using Italian cellphones.
yea vrs using American cell phones. What idiots! ;)
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I doubt that cell phone interceptions and hotel registries are how they got busted. C'mon, illegals are going to talk shop over the phone? It would be stupid for the italian counter intelligence to reveal how they catch spies.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Don't wage war on terror try and work out why these people hate you! then there might not be a need for a war on terror. Just a thought!
There's no real need to try to understand why they hate the USA (and you too,btw, skydancer). Hell, they'll come right out and TELL you why.
1. We are infidels who do not accept that Mohamed (however you wanna spell it) is the pophet of God.
2. Our "decadent" western civilization is "oppressing" them by buying oil from their "leaders".
3. We object to their stated goal of turning the world into an islamist theocracy.
4. Our "decadent" western culture is destroying their "pure" culture of islam via television, radio, and movies.
5. W are "rich", they are not. They blame us for that condition.
6. We support Israel, their greatest enemy.
IT'S A CULTURAL CLASH, man. Get the point. They don't like non-muslims, and would like to kill us. The same cultural clash is going on now in the Balkans, in the former Soviet republics, in SE Asia, and in western Europe. This conflict has been going on since the Dark Ages (muslim expansion into Europe, Asia, and Africa), has continued throughout history since then, and I don't see the end of it coming anytime soon.
Trying to "understand" them won't end it.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
yea vrs using American cell phones. What idiots! ;)
I would think something with encryption might be best...
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Originally posted by Suave
It would be stupid for the italian counter intelligence to reveal how they catch spies.
Thats what the report said and that's why I said CIA is stupid. lol
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Heh... hate seeing this happen.... Old Sec/Intel here. Not sayin nuthin, ain't been there, ain't done that.
TS/SCI
mac
:)
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Don't wage war on terror try and work out why these people hate you! then there might not be a need for a war on terror. Just a thought!
you just proved Carl Rove's "theropy" comments true. Thanks Sky for that reaffermation!
"Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war."
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What I don't get is that Italy is an ally. I mean what the hell kind of stunt is that? Trying to keep friends and influence people?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
What I don't get is that Italy is an ally. I mean what the hell kind of stunt is that? Trying to keep friends and influence people?
Do you think that this is a new thing or that is it just somthing the US does???????
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Originally posted by Thrawn
What I don't get is that Italy is an ally. I mean what the hell kind of stunt is that? Trying to keep friends and influence people?
and arresting citizens of an allied country-inside that country too, without working with the local authorities is a casus belli.
Im glad those CIA idiots got caught, they and their bosses and the government need to learn that the US is not the world's police and doesn't have jurisdiction all over.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Do you think that this is a new thing or that is it just somthing the US does???????
Are you saying that other NATO allies go around kidnapping people in other NATO countries?
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Originally posted by Suave
Is that book anygood btw ?
yes
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Are you saying that other NATO allies go around kidnapping people in other NATO countries?
Why yes. I'm not privy to any special ops stuff but I'd guess that during the cold war the countrys wouldnt destinguish the difference. Last time I heard we catch spies of every country all the time here. They are called Embasy staff.
then again you didn't answer the question just merly deverted it with one of your own.
the sky is falling.
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Originally posted by FaliFan
Care to provide an example Gunslinger?
nope
EIDIT: but if I must, I know we've caught more than a few Israli special services spies here in the US in the past few years
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Do you think that this is a new thing or that is it just somthing the US does???????
This is the first time I've heard of the US kidnapping people in a allies country, so that is new to me. I think that other countries do do it. But I would be damn surprised if another NATO country has been kidnapping foreign nationals from others. And if they do than they suck as well.
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Originally posted by FaliFan
When did Israel join NATO?
orriginally it was allies. Don't worry though the sky is still falling.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
This is the first time I've heard of the US kidnapping people in a allies country, so that is new to me. I think that other countries do do it. But I would be damn surprised if another NATO country has been kidnapping foreign nationals from others. And if they do than they suck as well.
I'm not saying I approve of it. But, to think that this kind of thing doesnt happen.....or only happens when a big bad GWB is president (yes I know, my words not yours) is naive at best
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Originally posted by FaliFan
Take a guess ... yeah it's me.
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