Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 1K3 on June 24, 2005, 11:50:00 AM
-
Model the La-7 based on 1944 productions/figues
La 7 in August 1944:
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt...ml#No.452101-39
La 7 in April of 1945 (a week before the war ends)
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt...No.%20452132-76
-
linky gives me this:
Upgrade to BT Yahoo! Broadband online and save £25
Sign up online today
Please sign in Login Form
Email: e.g., user@btinternet.com
Sign in tips
Password:
Forgot password?
Keep me signed in on this computer unless I sign out.
Mode: Standard | Secure Need more help?
-
Sry
check this link
1944
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Perform.html#No.452101-39
1945 (weeks away before war ends)
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Perform.html#La%207%20No.%20452132-76
-
LA7's make excellent targets, as many of those who fly them tend to get over extended into situations where they are easy to kill.
If we were to either perk or pork them, fewer people would fly them. And that means more people would learn to fly with their heads, which would mean fewer easy targets for the rest of us :(
-
:confused:
lol.. I don't follow that AK... :D
-
with this so-called simple "solution"...
*La-7 will gain its respect:)
*La-7 will never be threatened by imposing a "flying tax" :D
*Heck, I think HTC should even increase its ENY value
next...
-
What he meant to say ...
"If we were to either perk or pork them, fewer people would fly them ... and then they would move to flying the N1K.
And then how long would it take for the BBS to start to be inundated with "PERK THE N1K ... I see too many of them .... WAAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAA".
Well as far as I am concerned ... I see way too many 109s and 190s ... so lets perk them too.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
What he meant to say ...
"If we were to either perk or pork them, fewer people would fly them ... and then they would move to flying the N1K.
And then how long would it take for the BBS to start to be inundated with "PERK THE N1K ... I see too many of them .... WAAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAA".
Well as far as I am concerned ... I see way too many 109s and 190s ... so lets perk them too.
did you check the data? :)
-
I shot down a La7 once...
-
Originally posted by SuperDud
I shot down a La7 once...
Yeah right. Have a film?
Didn't think so :p
-
What difference does it make....lala is one of the easiest planes in the game to beat 1 on 1. The bigger issue is the "horde"....you dont get 1 on 1's....
Yestersay morning I flew a Jabo hap in a D hog...pickled the 1000pders and scooted after a pony...tickled him but he got enough extension so I was just following him back to his base...anyway a G10 comes on in...am I worried about the G10 or the pony....nope. It's the stinking IL-2 lumbering in that has me worried. I can play with the pony and G10 all day....but the moment that IL-2 gets inside 2.0 my options go all to hell.
Lala's are probably the lowest single threat plane in the MA....
-
Originally posted by SuperDud
I shot down a La7 once...
after I shot the wings off it ... WOOOOOO WOOOOOOO !!!!
-
How about instead of perking the La7... Add links/addresses to Netaces and this BB on the MOTD for the main arena?
Might help alot of problems.
-
Originally posted by 1K3
did you check the data? :)
LOL ... no need to ... it works for all the rest of the LaLa whiners ... "WAAAAAA ... I see way too many La-7s ... WAAAAA they are all over the place ... I can't take it anymore ".
What we don't hear ...
"WAAAAAA .... I was trying to run ... err ... extend ... err ... run ... in my and that stinkin' La-7 bastage no-skilled noob caught me and killed me ... PERK THE LA-7 !!!!11"
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
after I shot the wings off it ... WOOOOOO WOOOOOOO !!!!
Hey Slapshot... Hey Slapshot... FINISH HIM OFF NEXT TIME
WOOOOOOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
-
For scenarios I always thought, once I became aware of the performance difference, that there should be a free 1944 La-7 armed with two ShVAK 20mm cannon and a perked 1945 La-7 armed with three B-20 20mm cannon.
-
or another Solution... COMPROMISE!
how's this...
make 2 La-7s... one free (1944), one perked (1945)
free La-7 use 1944 data with no 3 cannon option
perked la-7 uses 1945 data with 3 cannon option.
(next on tha perk conveyor belt...)
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
LOL ... no need to ... it works for all the rest of the LaLa whiners ... "WAAAAAA ... I see way too many La-7s ... WAAAAA they are all over the place ... I can't take it anymore ".
What we don't hear ...
"WAAAAAA .... I was trying to run ... err ... extend ... err ... run ... in my and that stinkin' La-7 bastage no-skilled noob caught me and killed me ... PERK THE LA-7 !!!!11"
Did I write this? :rofl
Kind of sums the whole LALA debate
-
or the la-7 freaks can start using Yaks. THere better in every way =)
-
Originally posted by 1K3
or another Solution... COMPROMISE!
how's this...
make 2 La-7s... one free (1944), one perked (1945)
free La-7 use 1944 data with no 3 cannon option
perked la-7 uses 1945 data with 3 cannon option.
(next on tha perk conveyor belt...)
Sounds cool to me.
BUT ... it won't fly for those who really want it perked cause it runs them down ... ya see ... a 2 cannon La-7 will run them down just as fast as a 3 cannon version (maybe faster - less weight) ... and cause they have no clue on how to dogfight, they will be shot down just as easily with just 2 cannons.
-
Originally posted by TheThang
or the la-7 freaks can start using Yaks. THere better in every way =)
Shhhhhhhhhhhh ... dammit ... next thing ya know ... there will Yaks ALL OVER THE PLACE ... and HT will be forced to perk them too ... remember ... too much usage = PERK THE MO FO.
-
How about just leave as is
-
I still don't see why we should perk the 109. Whenever I see an enemy 109 I will go in on it. Most don't know how to fly that plane correctly anway. Unless you run into a pack of JBs, wetrat, or NathBDP(and since we are in the same squad I can see his little orange icon) they really aren't a threat. Heck, its almost more fun when one tries to drop on you to go nose down and manually trim your nose up before you hit the ground, just to see the n3wb behind you lawndart because noone defined "compression" for him =)
-
(off topic)
109 doesnt really compress
The stick force in 109 are just too high at hi speeds (even in RL)
-
why does one have to be running or extending from the la7?
see these post"waa waa i was running and he caught me" crap...assuming one is running, why?
heck, most times i see la7s alone, they end up running...others are just picking fights in progress...so why just "i was running"?
-
Originally posted by killnu
why does one have to be running or extending from the la7?
see these post"waa waa i was running and he caught me" crap...assuming one is running, why?
heck, most times i see la7s alone, they end up running...others are just picking fights in progress...so why just "i was running"?
Because its the runners that cry about it. If it was about running we would be asking for the D9, 51, TYFF, G10, F4U to be perked. Cause if they are already fast and have a couple of K of alt, you are not going to catch eny of them unless you are in a lala with 100% fuel.
-
Originally posted by killnu
why does one have to be running or extending from the la7?
see these post"waa waa i was running and he caught me" crap...assuming one is running, why?
heck, most times i see la7s alone, they end up running...others are just picking fights in progress...so why just "i was running"?
What Dedalos said ... the majority (NOT ALL) of those that incessantly call for the perking of the La-7 are those who fly the "hit-and-run" genre of planes and go nuclear when the get chased down.
These are the ones that chuckle with delight as the BnZ the crap out of the slower planes and when they make a mistake ... they giggle with delight as they power away ... but when Mr. La-7 is in the neighborhood .... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
A week or so ago I was upping a field that came under attack by at least 6-8 P-51s ... all came in at high alt and vulched and picked till their hearts content. I was even hailed on 200 ... Slap ... I need a couple more kills ... keep upping.
Well ... I did up ... from the next field in a La-7 100% fuel. Flew to the field with moderate alt and killed 4 of em within 2 minutes ... none of them the taunter ... caught a P-51 low and fast out of the corner of my eye trying to NOE over the mountain and out of Dodge. Put my La-7 into a slight dive ... finally caught him after flying 1/2 sector ... guess what happened ... he never tried to reverse ... never tried for an overshoot ... did nothing but stick-stir ... and then he died ... bye bye P-51 taunter ... how sweet it was/is.
-
Slapshot,
A couple of points.
The La-7 in service in 1944 was significantly slower than the La-7 in 1945 that we have and in 1944 scenarios that is a far bigger issue than the number of 20mm cannon.
So a 1944 La-7 would be a bit slower and armed with two 20mm cannon.
The second point is that the two and three cannon armaments have the same weight due to the use of the lighter cannons, the heavier ShVAK vs the lighter B-20.
Given what I tend to fly (on those rare times that I do fly nowadays, though the urge to fly is getting stronger again) are the Ki-84 and Mosquito, neither of which could run from an La-5FN, let alone a 1944 or 1945 La-7. The reason that I think the La-7 is more of a problem than the Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9, P-51D or Typhoon (though the Typhoon is just about as bad potentially) is that while being very fast and having great acceleration it does not give up nearly as much in terms of clasical manuverability as do the others. Most don't know how to get the most out of a P-51D by using it's flaps. It is the all round performance package that makes the La-7 so enticing. The fact that it is more manuverable than most of the planeset and the fastest free fighter combined is what does it.
-
Because its the runners that cry about it
huh? take a look at my plane of choice last few tours and tell me im running from anything in a 38G?!
i understand what you guys are saying (ded and slap) but runners are not only ones...i have not been happy with the amount i see because it is not fun flying against horde of la7s all the damn time, little variety would be nice...everyone keeps bringing up 1 vs 1 against la7, that is not what i dont like, heck ill take a 1 vs 1 against anyplane...that means they didnt run and actually fought. point being, its not just runners...im just tired of seeing skies full of same damn planes, and lately its la7, la7 la7, niki, la7 spit, spit spit la7, la5....just retarded.
i guess im coming to realize not everyone wants to fly a tougher plane(38G for ex) and it is funner for them, because its easier, to fly la7s or nikis for example. ill get it sooner or later...im just slow.
-
I think all planes except their base model should be perked. Not to limit their use, but to limit their misuse. After awhile, people would be a little more relunctant to auger their 12 point perked P47d-40 into a fighter hanger.
Even bombers. Perk the Lancaster at about 20 points and see how long they can keep divebombing CV groups with them ( they would lose 60 points for the formation).
This would also make coordination more desirable. They need for bombers and attackers to be escorted. Makes for more realism. A sense that you need to stay alive.
For those of you who think this would lead to more "timid" flying. Well I believe "timid" flying is what people call someone who won't roll over and get shot down fast.
-
I am quite confident that a NEW ICON SYSTEM is gonna resolve the LA-7 issue once and for all:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/232_1119645148_lgay.jpg)
-
huh? take a look at my plane of choice last few tours and tell me im running from anything in a 38G?!
I don't think that anybody was accusing you, personally, of being a runner ... I know I wasn't ... I know how you fly. You are part of a very small minority.
I don't fly as much as I use to, but I just don't see it like you do ... all I ever see, for the most part, are 109s and 190s boomin and zoomin all over the place ... even tho it irks me, it will be a cold day in hell when I realistically ask for them or any plane to be perked.
-
Originally posted by killnu
huh? take a look at my plane of choice last few tours and tell me im running from anything in a 38G?!
I am sure the running does not apply to you. The same though goes for the lala drivers. Not every La7 HOes and runs. I think its the pilots we need to focus on and not the planes. The la did not deside to fire its uber guns at the merge, the pilot did.
My point is, nothing will get acomplished by perking the LA7 other than giving the D9 drivers a free ride. You will be getting HOed by a different plane thats the only difference you will notice. Game play/style and the MA will not change even if the LA7 was gone.
I get pissed off sometimes when I get sarounded by LA7s, D9s, 51s, or anything that will just HO extend Ho extend Ho . . . . . But then I think to myself, its a good thing those guys did not fly Spits, A6Ms, NIKIs cause I'd be dead.
Do I want 3 spits on my tail or 3 LA7s? I'll take the LAs any day.
-
Thanks for the info on the La-7 variants ... very interesting ... but would the 2 cannon version still run the P-51 down ?
Most don't know how to get the most out of a P-51D by using it's flaps.
Same holds true for the majority of those that fly the La-7 ... they are pickers and opportunist just like the majority of the P-51s.
Its just when the clueless P-51 pilots run into the clueless La-7 pilots, it all boils down to speed and the P-51 loses ... which infuriates them to no end.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
I am sure the running does not apply to you. The same though goes for the lala drivers. Not every La7 HOes and runs. I think its the pilots we need to focus on and not the planes. The la did not deside to fire its uber guns at the merge, the pilot did.
The La-7 is, however, an enabler for people inclined to do those things. The Tiifie, Dora, G-10 and 51 are as well, but they are not as good of enablers.
-
Originally posted by Karnak
The La-7 is, however, an enabler for people inclined to do those things. The Tiifie, Dora, G-10 and 51 are as well, but they are not as good of enablers.
Sure they are. Nothing will catch a D9 and nothing will survive a HO from a Tiffie or a G10 with 30mm. If the LA is not available any longer, I bet it will be D9 that takes its place and not the NIKI or the tiffi. But as you said, its is an anabler for people that chose to play that way. We shoudl focus on that. If these guys have nothing else available, they will HO you and try to run in Spit 1 (have actually seen it against me in a 110)
-
lalas are nothing, i dive into ferball last week, kill 2 lalas before a third one shoot down my F6F.
-
like i said, i see your points...and also like i said at end of post, cant expect people to fly other planes when it is easier for them to have fun in easier planes to fly and do well in...just taking me some time to realize that...well, to accept that is better way of putting it.
-
too much thinking in a game that is saposed to be fun.
its like trying to solve calculus equations while your getting laid... its like, why?
-
Originally posted by Morpheus
too much thinking in a game that is saposed to be fun.
its like trying to solve calculus equations while your getting laid... its like, why?
I agree. Totally. I mean, its hard enough to remember their name till afterward as it is, why would you want to solve complex math problems too? Duh.
-
Originally posted by humble
What difference does it make....lala is one of the easiest planes in the game to beat 1 on 1. The bigger issue is the "horde"....you dont get 1 on 1's....
Yestersay morning I flew a Jabo hap in a D hog...pickled the 1000pders and scooted after a pony...tickled him but he got enough extension so I was just following him back to his base...anyway a G10 comes on in...am I worried about the G10 or the pony....nope. It's the stinking IL-2 lumbering in that has me worried. I can play with the pony and G10 all day....but the moment that IL-2 gets inside 2.0 my options go all to hell.
Lala's are probably the lowest single threat plane in the MA....
I normally agree with Humble on things such as this, but La7's are only a non-threat if a noob is flying them--last couple camps, some talented vets are flying La7's exclusively--look at Coors, for example...lol, it ought to be illegal for guys like him to fly Lala's
-
crap
this thread turned to never-ending "ooo i can beat LAs with ease".
just wanna point out if 1944 La-7 should be the representation of OUR La-7.
-
for those who did not see the link
La 7 No.452101-39
During the period August 1944 La7 serial No.452101-39 underwent production test trials at the NII-VVS. Below is some of the data from those tests.
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Perform.html#No.452101-39
La 7 No. 452132-76
During the period April 1945 La7 serial No.452132-76 underwent production test trials at the NII-VVS. Below is some of the data from those tests.
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Perform.html#La%207%20No.%20452132-76
-
Well due mostly to all the whining from ALL the people about the poor La7. I have quit flying it entirely in favor of its slow brother, the La5fn.
You know what, I STILL chase down slow low ponys in it. I STILL dive through furballs again and again till I'm out of fuel or ammo.
I get just as many kills in the la5 as I did the 7. When I'm outnumbered anything still goes, from HO to drag em through the trees till they die.
I agree that the guys who really get bent about the la7 are flying the other fast planes. So if you want to perk it, better perk the 190D9, and the 109G10 and the pony the same.
Otherwise, leave em be and just learn to cope.
BTW wingman tatics will kill la7's all day long as will disimilar planes working together, ie spit & a pony or tiffy.
In fact wingman tatics work against everything as a general rule. If your struggling, you should be winging up with someone. 2 sets of eyes is always better than 1.
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
Well due mostly to all the whining from ALL the people about the poor La7.
For the exact same reason I think I'll make the La7 my favorite plane.
1K3 no need to post 3 time the same link, Tilt play AH.
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
Well due mostly to all the whining from ALL the people about the poor La7. I have quit flying it entirely in favor of its slow brother, the La5fn.
Ghosth, fly what you like. This is a game with the main goal is(for me anyway) to have fun. If the La7 is your ride, fly it. For example I like the EZ mode SpitV. Can I fly other planes..yes. But when it comes down to it, it's more FUN to fly the spitty. If online aces think I'm dweeby, I'll try not to lose sleep over it.
-
Originally posted by SuperDud
Ghosth, fly what you like. This is a game with the main goal is(for me anyway) to have fun. If the La7 is your ride, fly it. For example I like the EZ mode SpitV. Can I fly other planes..yes. But when it comes down to it, it's more FUN to fly the spitty. If online aces think I'm dweeby, I'll try not to lose sleep over it.
It's never the plane that makes one a dweeb, trust me :)
-
Originally posted by bj229r
I normally agree with Humble on things such as this, but La7's are only a non-threat if a noob is flying them--last couple camps, some talented vets are flying La7's exclusively--look at Coors, for example...lol, it ought to be illegal for guys like him to fly Lala's
A good pilot is a good pilot....and there are some great la-7 drivers. Now obviously if your locked up with "an ace" who happens to be in a lala you have your hands full....but I'd rather fight an ace in a lala then an ace in a spitV or a ki-84 or a 38J (as examples) it just isnt that tough as nut....a la-5 is actually a much tougher 1 on 1 (for me at least). In a multithreat enviorment like the MA the la-7 gives the best combination of speed and handling and a good stick can rack up the kills....but he'll score well regardless. A great many lala drivers rely on the planes performance well within the envelope and cant exploit it fully however.
-
Originally posted by 1K3
crap
this thread turned to never-ending "ooo i can beat LAs with ease".
just wanna point out if 1944 La-7 should be the representation of OUR La-7.
A good pilot will beat a good plane close to 100% of the time, obviously if 2 good pilots meet the guy with the better plane (or numbers) has the edge...but the plane itself is the weakest part of the equation.
-
All this ignores the point that having a 1945 La-7 and using it in 1944 scenarios, or if an East Front ToD ever happens, is like using the F4U-4 as an F4U-1D or a P-47M as a P-47D-40.
For that reason alone we need to see the La-7 split into 1944 and 1945 versions, irregardless of the perk status of either version after the split is done.
-
Little will change in the MA if you perk or pork the LA7's except the number of LA7's we see flown.
It is human behavior that is what people are for the most part whining about, although they express it as a LA7 (or other airplane) problem.
With or without LA7's there will be HO's, runners, cherry-pickers, tool-sheders', vulchers' etc.
I heard the same type of complaints when I flew WW1 sims:
Uber planes, vulchers, hordes, HO attackers gang-banging, etc.
Perk the LA7, or pork the LA7's FM, or leave it alone. For little will change in the MA until human nature changes. That is not likely to happen in my life time.
The MA is basically a anarchistic free-for-all. You can't change the Main Arena by perking or porking the LA7, but you can change your attitude. The MA is lots of fun if you let it be fun. :aok
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
...
I get just as many kills in the la5 as I did the 7.
Sorry, I don't believe you.
I did exactly the same - switch from La-7 to La-5. It is just impossible to have the same number of kills, La-5 cannons are terrible! In La-7 I had 1 assist for 2 kills, now I have 2 assists for 1 kill. Don't tell me that you have another stat!
-
Vad, Shvks are actually pretty good cannons. Not up in hispanos for range, but inside 300 they do just fine.
Just get in close, give him a good burst and move on.
Normally I have no problem downing all 3 bombers in a formation. La7, or La5, = no difference.
Partly because I fly the la7 2 gun setup.
So nothing has changed for me.
Perhaps I'll die a bit more often in the la5, because I can't just exit the fight whenever I please. But I really have not seen a difference.
-
Vad, After a quick check with the stats.
La5 18 kills 8 deaths
Had to go back a few tours to find enough la7 action, but it was.
La7 60 kills, 32 deaths.
So I'm actually doing better K/d wise in the la5.
Its certainly no huge difference between them IMO.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
Sure they are. Nothing will catch a D9 and nothing will survive a HO from a Tiffie or a G10 with 30mm. If the LA is not available any longer, I bet it will be D9 that takes its place and not the NIKI or the tiffi. But as you said, its is an anabler for people that chose to play that way. We shoudl focus on that. If these guys have nothing else available, they will HO you and try to run in Spit 1 (have actually seen it against me in a 110)
imo, Fw190D9, sux as fighter: poor firepower,turn rate ,... Is just good for boring BZers,hit and run, or high speed vulchers
P51D is modeled all over better fighter than La7, i don't understand why are always complains about La7?!
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
Vad, After a quick check with the stats.
La5 18 kills 8 deaths
Had to go back a few tours to find enough la7 action, but it was.
La7 60 kills, 32 deaths.
So I'm actually doing better K/d wise in the la5.
Its certainly no huge difference between them IMO.
I don't want to say that K/D should change. La-5 is good fighter, and you should have the same K/D as in La-7.
If you flew La-7 with 2 cannons, yes, you should feel no difference.
I fly 3 cannon La-7, and I feel huge difference with La-5. 3 cannons are much better than 2. Actually, 4 cannons would be better than 3, but ... :)
-
Russian cannons may not be as good as hizookas, but ive been exploded from La7's at 800+ more times than i care to remember
-
Originally posted by Morpheus
too much thinking in a game that is saposed to be fun.
its like trying to solve calculus equations while your getting laid... its like, why?
Simple... cuz you want to impress the girl your with.. with you ability to "stay engaged" for a long time. Nothing a girl likes better than a long engagement, turns, spins, repositioning, going for the "6"....she'll be impresssed with your "piloting" so who the hell cares what the pilot is "thinking" about.
Balsy
-
Originally posted by ghi
imo, Fw190D9, sux as fighter: poor firepower,turn rate ,... Is just good for boring BZers,hit and run, or high speed vulchers
P51D is modeled all over better fighter than La7, i don't understand why are always complains about La7?!
Exactly! D9 drivers complain cause the lala is the only thing that can catch them, and when it does, they cannot fight. 51 is a little different since it is a fighter. I don;t get why 51 drivers complain about lalas since if a lala catches them, the 51 can put up a good fight and kill the LA. MAybe cause people never learned how to fly the 51 and only use it for its cool name, speed, and ord?
-
Stop confusing the two.
If you kill a Lala easily, it's not the Lala that's easy to kill. It's the great majority of dumbprettythang pilots in the La-7s that don't know squat about fighting, who are easy to kill.
Get a vet or a true-blue ace in a La-7 and see how 'easy' it's to shoot him down.
I can kill all kinds of newbies in P-38Ls or Fw190Ds or P-51s and stuff, but that don't exactly mean that the said planes are sucky, does it?
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
Stop confusing the two.
If you kill a Lala easily, it's not the Lala that's easy to kill. It's the great majority of dumbprettythang pilots in the La-7s that don't know squat about fighting, who are easy to kill.
Get a vet or a true-blue ace in a La-7 and see how 'easy' it's to shoot him down.
I can kill all kinds of newbies in P-38Ls or Fw190Ds or P-51s and stuff, but that don't exactly mean that the said planes are sucky, does it?
But if the majority of pilots in the LALA don;t know squat about flying, whats the problem? Easy kills right?
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
Stop confusing the two.
If you kill a Lala easily, it's not the Lala that's easy to kill. It's the great majority of dumbprettythang pilots in the La-7s that don't know squat about fighting, who are easy to kill.
Get a vet or a true-blue ace in a La-7 and see how 'easy' it's to shoot him down.
I can kill all kinds of newbies in P-38Ls or Fw190Ds or P-51s and stuff, but that don't exactly mean that the said planes are sucky, does it?
exACTLY! Lala increases anyone's skill level by an easy third..which is why a lotta talented guys dont fly em..they want a challenge
-
I've been inactive for almost a full year. I thought just on a lark i'd check out the boards.
Lo and Behold. People are still crying about the LA 7 and the N1KI.
Two things in AH will always remain the same
1. HT will always kill you in his flying PT boat.
2. The Nik and the Lavochkins will NEVER be Perked :-)
You might as well try and convince one party in congress that legislation introduced by the other party is "bipartisan."
May your sights be full of noobs, and you magazines full of ammo. *salute*
-
Originally posted by bj229r
exACTLY! Lala increases anyone's skill level by an easy third..which is why a lotta talented guys dont fly em..they want a challenge
That statement shows how well you know the game. Well, that and your stats. You seem to be in 190s a lot and your 3 top kills last tour are bombers and panzers. You have 54 deaths, but only 3 were from the dreaded LA7. I guess you are looking for a chalenge also against those buffs?
I don't see where your extencive knowledge of the LA7 comes from since you dont seem to engage that many LALAs or any other fighters.
-
Lol, I never said I WAS talented; but if I flew LA7 instead of F8 or A8, things would be heaps easier--that, and not flying without wingies
-
Originally posted by bj229r
Lol, I never said I WAS talented; but if I flew LA7 instead of F8 or A8, things would be heaps easier--that, and not flying without wingies
How do you know? It does not have 30mms so it would not be as good agains buffs. How do you know how good a plane is if you never flew it?
-
I used to fly it a bit, REAL fun plane, cannons kill stuff almost from as far out as hizookas, handles real well--if ya under 10k, seems to fight with most anything except spit5, etc.
-
But if the majority of pilots in the LALA don;t know squat about flying, whats the problem? Easy kills right?
True, o true.
However, it works both ways. Think about it.
If the Spit14 or the Tempest ever goes free, it will be these same people in La-7s who'll be now hording over to the Spit14s or the Tempests. Will they be hard to kill?
Well, as long as they stick around and fight stupidly, as they currently do in La-7s, they won't be a problem.
But what baffles me is, when I mention the need of perkless free Spit14s or F4U-4s, people suddenly start arguing that these planes are so superior that it will become a menace to the MA. They are easy kills in La-7s, but they aren't easy kills in Spit14s or Tempests?
...
And there lies the answer.
How easy to kill the individual in a certain plane is meaningless.
The only thing that matters is that some planes are overused, and for a reason. The plane is powerful. Even if it doesn't help them become more successful, not by long shot, they still choose La-7s to ride. Because, with this plane, at least if they start running away at the right timing, they have a good chance to run away.
Tempests are basically the same. Newbies in 70 point Tempests are still easy kills for a free Fw190D-9. So why are they perked?
Because, regardless of how easy they are to kill, the plane will be overused, and that's a fact.
It's potential is much too powerful. So basically HTC perks Tempests, Spit14s, Chogs, 4hogs and etc.. upon its potential, not by its actual success.
And that same amount of potential lies in the La-7.
Against most newbies I can hold my own even in a Fw190A-8. However, against superior guys like Shane or Fariz who makes frequent use of La-7s... or, against anyone who is in a simular skill level as myself... I have hardly a chance even in the Bf109G-10 which I've flown for years since 1.05.
No chance at all.
That's why the La-7 must be dealt with.
ps) and the same goes with all planes with simular potential. Just like the La-7 has uber potential, so does my favorite Bf109G-10 against most other planes. Same with P-51Ds or Fw190Ds.. even Typhoons and stuff.
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
True, o true.
However, it works both ways. Think about it.
. .. . . . . .
Hard to argue with you when you put it this way. If you are saing that the since the lala is not perked then the planes you mentioned should also be non perk planes, I am kind of with you, though I have not thought about it much. I guess the Tempest could be a problem in a sence that you will never see another tyff and together with the 1C they would be the future vulch mobiles. The spit however, is not that good to justify its price nor is the 152. As far at the F4U4, I am clueless, lol.
I was just focusing on the LA and the reasons people want it perked for. Think about it. It all comes down to there is a plane faster than mine and as long as you are not flying the fastest plane in the set, there will always be a faster plane.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
Hard to argue with you when you put it this way. If you are saing that the since the lala is not perked then the planes you mentioned should also be non perk planes, I am kind of with you, though I have not thought about it much. I guess the Tempest could be a problem in a sence that you will never see another tyff and together with the 1C they would be the future vulch mobiles. The spit however, is not that good to justify its price nor is the 152. As far at the F4U4, I am clueless, lol.
I was just focusing on the LA and the reasons people want it perked for. Think about it. It all comes down to there is a plane faster than mine and as long as you are not flying the fastest plane in the set, there will always be a faster plane.
It still comes down to the mind set of the pilot in the end. There are those in the game that really believe their stats mean something and will fly whatever will help them live the longest and get kills.
That doesn't mix well with those who are looking for the challenge of the dogfight, or those who have a particular interest in other types of planes in the game.
It's always tough or frustrating to try and fight the guy going lightspeed away from you all the time, knowing you won't catch em.
Personally I just don't care anymore :)
On those occasions when I get to take the old 38G up and about, I'll admit to getting the most satisfaction out of killling LAs and N1Ks, but in the end I just quit counting how many I see.
And if the fights are good I have fun, and if it's boring I log off and find something else to do.
People will fly what they want to fly regardless of what I want. So unperk em all, I won't fly em anyway :)
Dan/CorkyJr
-
In the end we still need a 1944 and a 1945 La-7. Right now we only have the 1945 La-7 and that makes it not so useful for 1944 scenarios.
-
Well as a consistant user of Lavochkins I have to agree that the 3 x B20 version couold/should be perked.
IMO the diference in kill potential for the average (or less than)player is significant (betweeen the two cannon variant and the three cannon variant) and is sufficient to seriously address any inbalance it brings to game play.
The fact that it runs away so well will remain..... 44 versions were on average a couple of Km/hr slower than 45 versions however all were working toward the same standard. Unfortunately La7 manufacturing production control was simply not as consistant in mid 44 as it was in early 45.
-
AKfokker.. Your not making any sense. The problem with the la7 is the huge numbers of them flying around, and that would be the case with f4u1c/ta152/temp/spit14 if they were not perked. It is fast, has nice guns, and is quite nimble, and is a pretty small target to hit, which is EXACTLY why the others are perked, along with overusage.
So why the hell wouldn't you perk it like the rest of them?
-
Originally posted by ghi
imo, Fw190D9, sux as fighter: poor firepower,turn rate ,... Is just good for boring BZers,hit and run, or high speed vulchers
P51D is modeled all over better fighter than La7, i don't understand why are always complains about La7?!
I like the D9, as it fits my style. I really don't seem to be able to fly anything with the success that I can fly a 190. I used to use the A8, awesome firepower.
I agree that the D9 has poor firepower. But it is what it is...
All in all it will get you some scalps and get you home. And it is so very pretty. :)
-
Originally posted by Lazerr
AKfokker.. Your not making any sense. The problem with the la7 is the huge numbers of them flying around, and that would be the case with f4u1c/ta152/temp/spit14 if they were not perked. It is fast, has nice guns, and is quite nimble, and is a pretty small target to hit, which is EXACTLY why the others are perked, along with overusage.
So why the hell wouldn't you perk it like the rest of them?
Perk it. I don't really care as I don't fly it very much. I think there are much better MA rides. Especially the PonyD.
The point I was trying to make is that with or without the LA7, the MA will be essentially the same. Because it is the people who fly in it that make the arena what it is. You won't change the gameplay, only the types of planes you are seeing.
We perked the C Hog, and people seem to have migrated to the LA7. We didn't have nearly the number of LA7s when the C Hog was a non-perk ride.
Perking the C Hog did reduce its usage quite a bit. That is emprically measurable.But what perking the C Hog didn't do was to produce an arena with more diversity. This thread an the multitudes of others like it prove that fact.
Now if we perk the LA7, soon people will complain about the numbers of some other non-perk ride. I am not sure what ride that would be. But it would probably be something fast with good acceleration, or some other attribute that would make it a desireable ride in a MA without LA7's.
So I doubt if perking the LA7 would produce the diversity some seem to desire.
-
The fact that it runs away so well will remain..... 44 versions were on average a couple of Km/hr slower than 45 versions however all were working toward the same standard. Unfortunately La7 manufacturing production control was simply not as consistant in mid 44 as it was in early 45.
This is a somewhat digression from the original thread but I gotta ask. Tilt, I was always wondering about this.
The difference between the '44 and '45 La-7s might not be large, but IMO it does present larger problems with the La-5FN.
Now, in past discussions in the A/V forums, I seem to recall that our La-5FN is too, a '44 version. A '43 La-5FN performed upto a certain margin worse.
What gets me here is that I also recall that these '43 La-5FNs with less speed and severely limited emergency power, is due to quality control issues rather than technical issues.
IIRC, HTC will not consider variances of performance due to quality problems as an acceptable modelling standard. All planes of all countries had some variances due to these problems, and especially in the case countries losing the war, it would be serious.
I'm kinda stumped that the La-5FN we pit against '43 Luftwaffe models in Eastern Front scenarios, that have the ideal, perfect performance a La-5FN can ever reach, may be in fact not represantative at all. Sorta like our '44 Typhoon with initial design flaws (and somewhat less performance?) pitted against '42 planes in scenarios..
So, if the opportunity ever rises, should there ever be modelled a separate '43 La-5FN as compared to the '44 La-5FN we have?
I think it could be a good idea - 1C Maddox with their IL2/FB uses this kinda modelling standards. Some planes are varied by the year of their service introduction date. They got 3~4 Spit5 versions according to the year they served in the war.
Perhaps AH can benefit from that kind of standard too. Modelling '43 Spit9s, '44 Spit9s... '44 190D-9s and '45 190D-9s... '41 Spit5s and '42 Spit5s... etc etc.. ??
-
If they have a 1945 Russian plane, why cant they have a 1945 P47? Seriously doubt the whole arena will be flyin P47M
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
So, if the opportunity ever rises, should there ever be modelled a separate '43 La-5FN as compared to the '44 La-5FN we have?
Your point re the non modelling of production control/quality issues is valid certainly for VVS ac.
The difference in 44La7 to 45La7 (other than the cannon) is purely yhe consistant development toward a difined quality standard.
Very late 45La7's also had additional air intake filters, better radios and some even benifitted from coupled throttle/mixture controls..but none of this really affects our La7 IMO.
The main areas that were consitantly addressed (across all lavochkins) was panel fit and excess use of glue/resin which could add weight to the total construction. Panel fit was often corrected in the field. It was after all only the engine cowlings.
re the La5fn.
Most of the La5's in early 43 were the La5F (normally asperated) and although the 2nd La5FN prototype was committed to production in March 43 it was not introduced as originally intended.
The 2nd prototype had a production target weight (all up) of 3200kgs it was also the first Lavochkin to use metal wing spars. However there were many la5F wooden sparred wings already made so the new plane went into production with those and an all up weight of 3300kgs.
Due to shortages of the injected ash 82 FNV the La5f continued production as well. Indeed the largest production plant at Gorky did not swing totally over to the La5FN until October.
So what you see is a mismash of interim types appearing over the course of 43. such as
La5f std
La5f metal spar (after mid 43 Gorky)
La5FN wooden spar (upto mid 43)
La5FN std after mid 43.
On top of this is the usuall battle with poor fit and excess resin/glue used a a very heavy filler.
Re WEP and the La5FN.
Rechlin data suggest that the La5FN they had was capable of a full 10 mins at 2500rpm but (IIRC) limit its use to lower alts. Other than this I have yet to find data supporting extensive use of WEP certainly Czech pilots in 44 were told not to use it longer than 2 minutes.
How could HTC model this lot?
Well La5FN engines could be modelled to heat up under WEP a little quicker than now.
A mid 43 (Kursk) La5FN could be modelled with wooden spars and little heavier by 100 kg but this would add potentially other problems to modelling a 4 set fuel tank instead of the 3 set we have for the metal sparred La7 and La5FN.
The alternative is to add the La5F.
Your point re HTC not modelling production quality variants is well made and problematic whan considering the La7 and some IJN/IJA variants.
However it could be argued that a wooden sparred La5FN is as different from std as a non paddle bladed P47N would be prior its addition.
For me the easy solution is to separate the 3 cannon La7 as a distinct model. There are other reasons to do this. Latest rendering we have now are improving leaps and bounds over the original shapes adopted for lavochkins. The gun bubbles for the 3 cannon version are not the same as the 2 cannon and I see no way to reproduce this faithfully apart from creating two simialr but quite separate ac.
I actually believe that HTC will eventually do this when it comes time to re render the Lavochkins............I like to think that their priorities are elsewhere right now.
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
Perhaps AH can benefit from that kind of standard too. Modelling '43 Spit9s, '44 Spit9s... '44 190D-9s and '45 190D-9s... '41 Spit5s and '42 Spit5s... etc etc.. ??
And people would chose to use . . . ?
-
the entire vvs as well as IJF plane list should be expanded and that expansion should include a 1943/44 La7. personally I prefer to fly it with the two cannon option as it gives me 200 rounds per gun as opposed to 150. the only thing I like the La7 for is base defense and in that role it is near perfection.
-
Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Perking the C Hog did reduce its usage quite a bit. That is emprically measurable.But what perking the C Hog didn't do was to produce an arena with more diversity. This thread an the multitudes of others like it prove that fact.
Tell you what else these threads prove. WAY too many people blaming an airplane for their lack of skill. Everyone talks about 44 and 45 versions, 2 or 3 cannons, LA7s everywhere, LA7 is really a fast Spit, LA7s running, bla bla bla bla. I was on for 2 hour last night. I saw 2 LAs and one turned out to be an LA5 (They both fought). Twice I was sarounded by atlist 5 P51s (Lame BnZ attempts) and several times by Spits (handed me my arse). Where are all those LA7s you people are talking about? Leme guess, dieing on the runways right?
-
I agree with Dedalos, besides, the only reason why most newbs fly the la7 and N1K2 is the view out the back. I remember when I was a newb last week, I flew only la7's and N1K2's because noone told me how to set views.:D
-
Originally posted by Karnak
In the end we still need a 1944 and a 1945 La-7. Right now we only have the 1945 La-7 and that makes it not so useful for 1944 scenarios.
Actually I believe we have a very late model La-5FN...basically the last upgrade before the la-7. The la-7 is basically a cleaned up la-5....not all that much difference between our la-5 and the 1st la-7's...
-
I actually believe that HTC will eventually do this when it comes time to re render the Lavochkins............I like to think that their priorities are elsewhere right now.
Hmmm.. got it.
Perhaps, AH should also go the way of IL2/FB/AEP/PF, and offer multiple versions of variants according to timeline.
It certainly seems the RAF Spitfires can benefir from it, and perhaps soothe the frustrations against the La-7.
Besides, AH can model 3~4 versions of the same variant and claim it has over 100 planes to fly with too! :D
-
if this game becomes too skill oriented, HTC is gonna lose half player base at least.
-
We had a way of slowing the la7s in AH 1. you could pork fuel down to 25%. But people complained because only a few would re-supply.
-
Originally posted by onions4u
We had a way of slowing the la7s in AH 1. you could pork fuel down to 25%. But people complained because only a few would re-supply.
Yes, now at 75% fuel they are unstopable with ther 10mins of flying time. What do you care any way? Are the lalas too uber for your 5" guns?
It seems you are another one of those greatly affected by the redicilus number of lalas. Or do y ou only care cause it has 3 guns and not 2?
Why exactly are they bothering you again?
:rofl :lol
From your last tour:
Ship Gunner 46 0
Panzer IV H 28 29
Tiger I 23 0
Ostwind 10 11
B-26B 5 6
Typhoon IB 4 2
Oh why not, here is the one before that:
Ship Gunner 54 0
Panzer IV H 48 30
Ostwind 32 10
Tiger I 10 4
M-8 9 4
B-26B 8 4
A-20G 2 0
PT Boat 2 3
B-24J 2 2
LVTA4 2 2
-
Touché Dedalos :)
-
Originally posted by straffo
Touché Dedalos :)
:lol Sorry, bored at work
again, lol
-
I h@t3 teh L33T LaLa. It needs perked, and perked now! A LaLa can get 5 bizzilion miles with 10 mins of fuel as it screams along on the deck. Then it HOes you and runs when it misses in a horde of other LaLa's. Why don't the LaLa guys learn to fly a more challenging plane? All you people saying it's no big deal and how much skill u have are wrong and/or dillusional. Anyone with a clue can out fly you b/c the machine gives them so many adv. IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!
-
Originally posted by SuperDud
I h@t3 teh L33T LaLa. It needs perked, and perked now! A LaLa can get 5 bizzilion miles with 10 mins of fuel as it screams along on the deck. Then it HOes you and runs when it misses in a horde of other LaLa's. Why don't the LaLa guys learn to fly a more challenging plane? All you people saying it's no big deal and how much skill u have are wrong and/or dillusional. Anyone with a clue can out fly you b/c the machine gives them so many adv. IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!
hehe, definetly faster than a 5" gun.
-
Yesterday afternoon a buddy of mine was up in a 38, so rather than take my ussuall la5 I jumped into a 38.
We then proceeded to run into a couple of guys in la7's.
Over the course of the next our our 2 p38s shot down that pair of la7's at least 3 times. Generally speaking they were all good 1x1 or 2x2 fights. Yes they got me a time or 2, but generally speaking when the fight was over there would be a 38 left up when the la7's were dead.
Frankly I didn't have much trouble shooting them down at all. And I'm no great stick in the P38, I suck in it.
If your having a problem with la7's maybe you need to change your style?
Wing up with a few guys and go lala hunting. Whatever it takes.
But for pete's sake quit whining about it.
-
Originally posted by Despair
if this game becomes too skill oriented, HTC is gonna lose half player base at least.
Exactly ...
-
I think complaining about the LA7 has become the thing to do. YOU can't really want to be considered good, and not complain about the LA7. Its like a fashion statement. We even had people that have been in 5" guns for 3 months complain about the LALA.
An other 2 hours last night deffending caped bases (thats were you will find the lala, vulching and running). If I remember correctly I did see 1 LALA fly under me but it could have been an LA5. Yeah, the skys are foul of them.
-
What's wrong with the 5"?????? It's where I rack up my killz
-
I like the lalas and use it. Just saying instead of perking it thats what we use to do. Porking fuel also stopped alot of other planes including 163.
-
Originally posted by SuperDud
What's wrong with the 5"?????? It's where I rack up my killz
Well, the lala is faster and it can out turn them
-
The thing is the fastest non-perk thing in AH under 10k (where 90% the action occurs)--tho its made of plywood, does 550 in dive without serious compression (I tried to rip wings on pullout but couldnt), and take 20mm hits with poofing..WHY make planes outta $#@%% metal of ya can get this performance out of plywood?
(Dedalos, ya right about A8--flew it most all of last camp, had bad time against nimble things....ended up staying high where I could choose targets....tend to see lotsa buffs at 15ish....now I fly F8 mostly, much more a fighter plane than A8--fun ride)
-
/sorry for my english/
I fly La7 becouse i was teached to fly it and how to fly it
It's a plane to "hit and run" or to finish the wounded when they try to escape , maybe you don't like it but there will be always a plane people don't like.
To perk it? Don't know.
And one thing more , la 7 rare goes above 6-7 k, you allways can fly 12k and dive.
and HO - there won't be la 7 people will fly N1K or Typhoon HO
you can't change it. Time must pass , they will learn to avoid HO as iam learning now.
Pug
/315 RAF /
-
Originally posted by bj229r
The thing is the fastest non-perk thing in AH under 10k (where 90% the action occurs)--
And there always will be a fastest non-perk plane
tho its made of plywood, does 550 in dive without serious compression (I tried to rip wings on pullout but couldnt),
Compression and riping wings off, two different things. You could not rip the wings off because the LALA is not manuverable enough to allow you to rip the wings off
and take 20mm hits with poofing..WHY make planes outta $#@%% metal of ya can get this performance out of plywood?
Well, thank the game for that. Sometimes I kill with a single ping, some times (most) I empty the whole clip and they fly away. Wounded, but fly away. Thats something HT will have to fix one day once they are done working on the importand aspects of the game
:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by dedalos
Compression and riping wings off, two different things. You could not rip the wings off because the LALA is not manuverable enough to allow you to rip the wings off
I dont THINK I said that they were the same---its just that any number of METAL planes here will eject their wings under similar situation--yanking back on stick and applyin up-trim 550+---or just hitting the ol X button
-
Originally posted by bj229r
I dont THINK I said that they were the same---its just that any number of METAL planes here will eject their wings under similar situation--yanking back on stick and applyin up-trim 550+---or just hitting the ol X button
They will, if they are manueverable enough. For example, you can pull back on the stick on diving G10 but the wings wont come off till you hit the grownd. :D LALA not as manueverable as some people would like to think.
-
Hommies, I have so much faith in HTC, they know there s**t. If the La7 should of been perked at the start then they would of done so. All I have to say on the matter is I cannot wait for the La9 :)
BTW, I bet my next post will be PERK THEM, PERK THEM lol.
-
Originally posted by 1K3
Model the La-7 based on 1944 productions/figues
La 7 in August 1944:
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt...ml#No.452101-39
La 7 in April of 1945 (a week before the war ends)
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt...No.%20452132-76
HTC, please implement these "figures". I'll still kill plenty of them in it whilst turnfighting. After all, do this, the whining should stop.
Karaya