Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yippee38 on June 24, 2005, 12:49:12 PM
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I was reading an article over at SimHQ (The Future of Simulations: Where do we go from here? (http://www.simhq.com/_all/all_005a.html) ) and it got me thinking about AH. I'm wondering why HiTech and crew don't rent a handful of PC, a tent, and spend a week up at Oshkosh letting people play AH? Sure it would cost some cash, but isn't it likely that it would create a ton of interest in the game?
Do they do that, and I just missed hearing about it?
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Simhq knows all about AH ... they treat us like the black sheep over here .
so why spend $$$ on them
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This was tried back when everyone was working for WB. If I remember correctly it generated alot of interest but not many accounts. It cost us alot.
- sudz
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Originally posted by -sudz-
This was tried back when everyone was working for WB. If I remember correctly it generated alot of interest but not many accounts. It cost us alot.
- sudz
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't WB a pay per hour game for a very much longer time then Air Warrior?
If so, that might have explained the interest yet lack of accounts.
Something like this might just work with AH2's price... Let's face it, its the best deal on the planet.
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"they treat us like the black sheep over here "
The original SimHQ crew were pretty fair and good to AH. They got interviews from the HTC folks (when was the last time any saw an interview with someone from AH) and the editors/contibuters often participated in discussions on these boards. IMO SimHQ (and Dogfighter.com in it's pre Playnet days!) were the best websites for folks who liked this type of game/sim.
After some guy (forget his name) bought out or took over from the original crew the place went down hill pretty quick. He didn't like HTC or he snubbed them because they didn't grease his palm.
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Originally posted by -sudz-
This was tried back when everyone was working for WB. If I remember correctly it generated alot of interest but not many accounts. It cost us alot.
- sudz
that's a shame ; (
though one might wonder how the climate has changed since then. i know at Oshkosh there will some AH players (mainly a bunch of the CAF, and probably a few more) that would make for a good example for the game i would think. seeing a bunch of the regular subscribers, and talking with them frankly.
i know i'd go out of my way to show up there this year ; )
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"they treat us like the black sheep over here "
The original SimHQ crew were pretty fair and good to AH. They got interviews from the HTC folks (when was the last time any saw an interview with someone from AH) and the editors/contibuters often participated in discussions on these boards. IMO SimHQ (and Dogfighter.com in it's pre Playnet days!) were the best websites for folks who liked this type of game/sim.
After some guy (forget his name) bought out or took over from the original crew the place went down hill pretty quick. He didn't like HTC or he snubbed them because they didn't grease his palm.
As for advertising? I think HTC are doing something righ as they have tv ads pulling players in. But IMO they could do more by helping people to talk about thier product. AKA that thing called "word of mouth."
Heck good PR spurs some people on to build communites and into building fansites as well as all sorts of phenominal media. See IL2.
However that won't happen if all they have to go on is the age old MA gameplay thing or if they don't have diddley squat to get excited about (ref: lack of info on TOD)
huh? we cannot delet posts or edit them after a 5 min timer has run??
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Well here's an idea (perhaps a bad one)..
Make Aces High the last game in a difficult progression of games. Take the same game engine and dumb down the flight model and create a few quake type games - maybe even space ships. Once they get bored with that, they might take the next step and play AH.
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yes Westy .. you have like 6 or 12 hours to deleate and i think you can edit for longer then that .
As far as im concerened the Comercials seam to bring in the most new players .
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
yes Westy .. you have like 6 or 12 hours to deleate and i think you can edit for longer then that .
As far as im concerened the Comercials seam to bring in the most new players .
i just went to edit my post, and the limit is now down to 5 minutes ; (
i wanted to add, there are many many more online games now, and the public may be more receptive. just a thought
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wow they changed it !!!
Darn darn darn ... :mad:
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Originally posted by -sudz-
This was tried back when everyone was working for WB. If I remember correctly it generated alot of interest but not many accounts. It cost us alot.
- sudz
Yeah, I know from experience that trying to exploit the trade-show circuit, so-to-speak, often ends up costing a company more than it benefits them in the long run. Seems to me the route they're taking nowadays with the TV spots should be more rewarding to the bottom line.
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exposure is everything..guys in my aviation class went nuts for some pos sim at fantasy of flight in florida....Every person who has seen my setup at home has an account or at least did the 2 weeks trial. Most people dont know about it, or think its just another Microsoft type flight sim they will quit in a week.
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slow & steady ... seems to me, AH is doing just fine
what would happen if all of a sudden they got more subs then they could handle? I think on real busy days in MA that is already the case. You see warps, rubber bullets, strob light graphics .. things that make you go UUGGHHhh!
Unless they want to show high subs to jack the askng price,we all want ...
slow & steady
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The situation has definately changed. IMHO, people are a lot less of the attitude that "$15 a month is too much to pay for a game."
The other thing to remember is that Oshkosh IS NOT a trade show. Nor is it anything like a trade show. It is a gathering of aviation enthusiasts. What better place than Oshkosh to find new players? HiTech could try to get one of the stick makers, and NaturalPoint to help defray the costs. Get them to give people "Oshkosh coupons" to get their sticks and TIR for a bit of a discount. Get kids and adults to sit down and play the game. That's a lot more convincing than watching some 30 second TV commercial. At least if you play you can see what the flight model feels like.
BTW, Simbin did exactly this with GTR (racing sim). They had a tent at a bunch of GT races in Europe where they'd let people play their game. If nothing else, it gets the word out.
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I can say that while I find SimHQ a good read on some things, its a better aggregator than anything else....and yes, they seem completely ignorant to the huge success Aces High has become. As I recall, theve, done 3+ articles running dozens of webpages, whining and moaning about consoles and the lack of good flight sims for the PC. They go on and on about how they'd pay $75...$100 more for a top notch sim, and how much they love USAFs custom skins (that noone saw but the person using them)....and here we sit, thousands of players, paying $15 a month for the best flight sim, multiplayer or otherwise...and not a word.....the term clueless comes to mind.
I tend to listen to their articles at work (I aggregate them and convert them text to speech).....and the robitic voice I listen too counldnt be any more appropriate than those articles being refered too here. They were talking about sims on consoles, and a few of the 'roundtable members' were talking about that as if I give a holy crap about the piece of hardware that delivers my game experience, that they should never review sims, on the consoles no matter how good they were.....geez, I know they arnt there now...but soon...
Heck, 5-10 years from now the PC will be a console for the most part. The way processors and graphics cards are going, they will exceed standard monitor resolutions and refresh rates at insane levels of detail in the next decade. It will become much like buying an oven....you can have a few options, and some will do a slightly better job at one thing than another, but for the most part they will all cook your dinner/run your games.
Imagine how much easier it will be for Hitech to code for 2-5 platforms instead of 200-500 hundred
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Originally posted by jaxxo
exposure is everything..guys in my aviation class went nuts for some pos sim at fantasy of flight in florida....QUOTE]
I remember that sim! It was pretty cool how you all got your own "plane"... They still run that thing?!
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RENO AIR RACES
If HTC wants some West Coast Exposure,
I will help.
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If someone totaly new to air combat sims came to Aces High, where would they find the primer?
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You talk about atracting new players. I've been playing AH for almost 2 years and have no success. Its not from lack of trying. I've asked, I've trained, da, 2 aquads, all that. There is NO buffer zone. There are no steps to follow. You
re either fodder or a player. There is NO learning curve to follow. Its a vulch mentality from day 1. Noobie- KILL HIM!
I don't know if I need a break or just quit. Ill decide undrunk.
There is no success for newbies in this game HT. Thats a problem I think and I doubt you will attract much fodder. This is an extension of people studying in steps since half time AW. Your learning curves were buffered with slow game advances. The new player will never stay the course here. Well maybe a few will. I don't think I am - and I aint that new. No measurable success in almost 2 years is a problem.
I know its a whine - done.
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Originally posted by BTW
You talk about atracting new players. I've been playing AH for almost 2 years and have no success. Its not from lack of trying. I've asked, I've trained, da, 2 aquads, all that. There is NO buffer zone. There are no steps to follow. You
re either fodder or a player. There is NO learning curve to follow. Its a vulch mentality from day 1. Noobie- KILL HIM!
I don't know if I need a break or just quit. Ill decide undrunk.
There is no success for newbies in this game HT. Thats a problem I think and I doubt you will attract much fodder. This is an extension of people studying in steps since half time AW. Your learning curves were buffered with slow game advances. The new player will never stay the course here. Well maybe a few will. I don't think I am - and I aint that new. No measurable success in almost 2 years is a problem.
I know its a whine - done.
Have you ever had someone sit in your plane as an observer for a few missions? They might be able to point out some things to you...
No measurable success in 2 years and you've tried all that? That's difficult to imagine... Not trying to knock you here, but maybe you just haven't been presented the material in a fashion that you can understand/learn easily... Many things about this game can appear daunting at first (well, forever :) ) and people learn in different ways.
While we're at it, what is your measure of "success" that you do not feel you are obtaining?
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>>While we're at it, what is your measure of "success" that you do not feel you are obtaining?<<
Having a reasonable shot at winning a fight.
When I first started playing chess, you competed against people ranked close to you. You weren't thrown into a room with masters/grandmasters and told to play. In AH, new players are targets, fodder, and they pay to be fodder. They have no hope to enjoyably compete with others of their level without setting up an event of their own. Its like HTC doesn't really care - hey kill or be killed, its a cruel cruel world. Thats true, but I don't find it fun in a game. I do like competition - I don't trying to out fight grizzly bears.
It just seems no thought was ever put into how to have new players enjoy some competition, and have a reasonable chance. It just strikes me as a vulch mentality from day 1.
Objectively is see two set of people leaving- the aces whose hard fights are few and far in between (how long will 15 kill messages have you paying 15 bucks a month?), and the strugglers who achieve no success.
Were the aces grouped together, and the strugglers grouped together, both might stay with a sense of competition.
I dunno - maybe I'm just burned out. But I see 2 weaknesses in AH - documentation, and creative competition. Thats just my opinion and not a put down. Obviously its very fun to at least 500 people a night.
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>>Have you ever had someone sit in your plane as an observer for a few missions? They might be able to point out some things to you...
<<
About a year ago I used to post films in the training area for people to tell me what I was doing wrong or right.
The thing they posted the most was nose bounce. Got a new stick ($75) less bounce, but still there. There's this thing the game does when the pipper is on target and its like skating on a marble. I don't know if its combat trim or stick problems or exagerated Z scale in 3d. But its like skating on a marble.
Got another stick ($90) which allows you to lessen the sensativity at the middle. The pipper is close to the targewt point and the stick is less sensative. Still, its like skating on a marble. You put the pipper on and it slides right off.
I dunno if its combat trim or just something in the game.
It impesses me as exagerated perspective or Z buffer.
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Originally posted by BTW
Well here's an idea (perhaps a bad one)..
Make Aces High the last game in a difficult progression of games. Take the same game engine and dumb down the flight model and create a few quake type games - maybe even space ships. Once they get bored with that, they might take the next step and play AH.
or if it existed:rolleyes: the next step fer the AH guys would be migs and sabres:eek:
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MiGs must die. Evil they are! Me hates them!
culero
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I think if they had a setup at the Reno Air Races..They would defnlty get soem new customers and alot of exposure
Hell..I woudl of never found any of thsi stuff ...except an ex girlfriends sister told her soem friend of heres was playing a game called ..."Air Warrior"...
Ya..I lgged on thru AOL..arghhhhhh and played for 1.99$ an hour..omfg...her credit crad bill was thru the roof..
2 or more computer rigs setup..Along with an LCD projector..so crowds walking by could see it..and defnlty a LARGE Audio Sysytem..I mean..who the HELL Doesnt Like the sound of rotary engines sparking up...Oh ya..who doesn tliek the sound of machine guns!!??
I did trade shows for many years..If you have a great product..+ a great display..You will defnlty attract people..Especially peopel who love Avaition
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
Oh ya..who doesn tliek the sound of machine guns!!??
ummm... the person being shot at?
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I keep wondering if a good promotion would be for an Aces High setup at flight museums.
At the Museum of Flight in Seattle, there is a whole portion of the building devoted to WWII fighters, with the aircraft, documentaries running, writeups, historical artifacts, info on various great aces, etc.
I've often wondered how great it would be for there to be several computers networked, with Aces High running, with documenation set up so that museum attendees could fly and fight in the various aircraft.
Maybe one of these days I'll ask the museum if they'd be interested in that if someone or some group put up some money for it. I would think they'd love it. They should have such a setup at the National Air and Space Museum, too.
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Originally posted by Brooke
I keep wondering if a good promotion would be for an Aces High setup at flight museums.
At the Museum of Flight in Seattle, there is a whole portion of the building devoted to WWII fighters, with the aircraft, documentaries running, writeups, historical artifacts, info on various great aces, etc.
I've often wondered how great it would be for there to be several computers networked, with Aces High running, with documenation set up so that museum attendees could fly and fight in the various aircraft.
Instead of a puter set up ... what about a advertisement type collage of pics , or a repeating dvd / tv setup showing the best films of ah ??? that would be alot cheaper
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I don't think a flight museum would go for that, as it's just promotion. They might if they got some sort of cut, but that would take more effort than it is worth to negotiate, I suspect.
If their visitors get something out of it that draws them to the museum, though, something educational, such as seeing what it's like to fly one of the planes, that might have an angle that is attractive. Of course, they would probably only like it if someone fronted the money for the computers; but maybe one computer would be enough.
Hmm. I might check into it at the Museum of Flight in Seattle.
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you'd have to put in a full simpit probely ..
if you can talk them into it ...
Id be willing to donate some shop time into the pit building if nessesary ect ect , and perhaps some pc parts ...
(I work in a Fabrication type shop ,we build all sorts of wierd stuff , I'm currently doing all the mods for the new seattle cop bikes that you should of seen by now , st1300's )
Email me if ya want Brooke . Roscoroo@hotmail.com
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Wow, Roscoroo, that is very generous of you! This might take me a while to get around to (as one part of it is me deciding to buy a PC system for the museum and making a pitch to them); but if and when I do that, I'll let you know how it turns out and if the museum says it needs more than a PC setup.
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By the way, I read the SimHQ article (or at least skimmed it). I found it to be ironic. The author is basically talking about how to educate the ignorant masses about how great sims are, yet the author (in not mentioning things like Aces High), seems himself to be totally ignorant of a realm of simulation as far above his stand-alone sims as his stand-alone sims are to video games.
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understandable ... just let me know if ya need anything.
(ya know we could sacrifice Rips Bmw for parts if nessesary)
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Roscoroo, your info says "Pacific NW" -- do you live near Seattle?
The world's only flying B-24 and a flying B-17 from the Collings Foundation are going to be at the Museum of Flight July 1-5. For $6-$8 or so, they let you go all around inside them. For $400, you can do the same while its in flight.
Newman (of the 327th) lives up here, too.
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10-15 mins from you (Lynnwood) right in the paine fld flight path (i get to see all the cool planes including the 262 when it flys ) we should get together at arlington this yr when it comes around :)
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Hey, Lynnwood! I work in Mukilteo, right near Paine Field. Send me your contact info, and I'll take you out to lunch or dinner one day soon -- you pick the spot. brooke at electraforge.com.
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Word of mouth is the best advertising...I usually wear my Aces High hat if goin R/C flying or hanging out at an airport..Usually get 1 person askin about it.
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i have a tatoo < "Aces High ">, on my forehead
PS. SiRLoin, i know you are RC fun, here are some cool staff movieRC models (http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=HydroFoam)
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I don't know if this has been suggested before, but having received my Coral Sea scenario patches I was thinking.
1. Hitech could make a "Aces High" patch and send to all existing
subscribers. ( Over 90 days to weed out the trial people). He might even think about creating patches for years of service.
I subscribed when AH went from beta to pay. :aok
2. People wearing the patches to Airshows, etc create word of mouth advertising.
3. Though he already has AH merchandise for sale, many people
want to add patches to their existing hats, Bomber jackets etc.
4. Patches bought in volume should be cheap per unit.
5. He could "Fund" the scenario patches. I Like the volunteerism
that goes into the scenarios, I think the design of the patches could be left to the (Scenario) planners.
6. The patch company he works with might even be able to supply
cheaper Squadron patches for those squadrons that have them.
I know the commercials should bring new subscribers but this is something I think in a small way might help keep them by giving
people a small token for customer loyalty.
:)
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i like the idea of patches....
maybe a standard AH one, then a square HTC symbol (my fave icon, especially in blue lol), and maybe one for the bigger scenarios. i'd be willing to pay $2 for a patch for the BoB one, or something. maybe when you register for the event, you choose yes or no to a patch.
better yet, have one of those surveys pop up when you log into the SEA for the first frame. those things i think recognize your CPID, and it could log it, and deduct it right from your AH account as a special fee.
after the second frame, the patches are sent out via mail to your billing address. if you only make the 3rd frame, no patch ; )
as far as squad patches, im sure you could set it up at cafepress or something easily enough, and the squad could order them if they wanted.
HTC could give out CM team and CT staff patches. maybe an "official art creator" for people who have had a skin approved. (limit 1 patch per person) or something like that.
official trainer patch.
that would be cool as heck.
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I'm working on patches for Battle of Britain 2004. I'm putting together a couple of design options for Jordi, who will pick and approve one, then I'll do a patch run on them.
The patches for Rangoon, '42 and Coral Sea look excellent. It's a great tradition.
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how about this idea, have a competition consisting of making a commercial about AH.
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Please let me/ us all know when they become available. I would
gladly purchase one.
Originally posted by Brooke
I'm working on patches for Battle of Britain 2004. I'm putting together a couple of design options for Jordi, who will pick and approve one, then I'll do a patch run on them.
The patches for Rangoon, '42 and Coral Sea look excellent. It's a great tradition.
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Originally posted by Gunslngr
[About Battle of Britain 2004 patches] Please let me/ us all know when they become available. I would
gladly purchase one.
Will do.
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Just have a Relaxed Realism arena and promote that. Some people like WW2 combat but not all the blackouts, accelerated stalls etc.
Eventually people will get bored with RR and go to the real arena.
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Originally posted by AWRaid
Just have a Relaxed Realism arena and promote that. Some people like WW2 combat but not all the blackouts, accelerated stalls etc.
Eventually people will get bored with RR and go to the real arena.
Probably true. In Air Warrior, there were about as many in RR as in full realism, if I recall correctly. Still, that is OK. Folks who stay in RR are unlikely to play full realism if that were the only thing available.
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In AOL AW4W there were 6 RRE servers, 2 RRP servers, 1 Korean, 1 WWI, 1 FRE and 1 FRP. Regardless if they go to FR or not it still means more people and more money for HTC...to fund new projects or whatever.
Each server could hold how many? I think 110 at that time.... I know the top 3 or so RRs of the AW4W were always full and the FR servers were about half full constantly.
World War II online is basically "Advanced" Relaxed Realism with a funky flight model and they still have people flying.
RR appeals to more casual players and most gamers are casual. I know HT doesn't AW for some reason so he may be avoiding RR arenas just for that I don't know.
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Some people like WW2 combat but not all the blackouts, accelerated stalls etc
AH with it's user selectable stall limiter, auto take off and combat trim mode is about as relaxed as one can get and still claim you're modeling WW2 "aircraft" for use in online combat.
How one could claim they like to experience WW2 air combat in a game that resembled Descent online rife with UFO's adorned in WW2 aircraft "skins" is beyond me.
It's like saying you like Gran Prix racing and claiming that is what your doing when "driving" physics defying, supersonic hovercraft modelled to look like actual race cars in an online Gran Prix "racing" world.
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Originally posted by -sudz-
This was tried back when everyone was working for WB. If I remember correctly it generated alot of interest but not many accounts. It cost us alot.
- sudz
I think I remember that year, it was the year with the most sims being pushed.
The Exposure would be great, as there is nearly 1 million aviation people in attendance. But as you mentioned it would be expensive.
I had heard this week that an outside flymart booth was $2,000 for the week and that exibition building booth was like $4,000-$5,000. I will check to see how accurate that is. Now that doesnt take into account hotels, travel, wages, and booth expenses.
The only Sim there was MicroSofts FlightSim. They had a Premium Spot setup in the center of the main entrance to Building B. Id guess it would have probably cost them about 3x as much as a regular booth. It was always packed with people that had interest.
CH Products has a Booth, They display both thier gaming sticks and their aviation sticks. IMHO contacting them and working something with on a booth would be the way to go. They already have Sticks and PCs in the Booth. I belive they had MS Flightsim to demo thier products. HiTech could flyup the RV and bring someone else to work the booth with the CH people.
Showing the product would good, but also having some trinket that could be taken by visitors with "Visit FlyAcesHigh.com" on it would be good as well, so once they get home they have reference to AH again.
Even if Warbirds didnt do well with this, it might be worth while to reevaluate it from time to time. I recommend sending Dale on a fact finding mission next year in the RV.
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yeah, i heard MS was there....
i personally did speak to about 4 people i didn't know about flight sims, and they asked about Aces High because they saw the commercial.
actually 2 asked right off "do you play Aces High"? before i even mentioned what sim i flew. the TV commercials are being seen it does seem.
the description i gave out was pretty good, and 1 for sure seemed very interested. he was concerned about things like the old Air Warrior relaxed realism being the dominant arena. sounded like he flew back in the mid 90's and has been unsure about flight sims until lately. you may have a new customer :aok
Grimm has the right idea though, with CH selling at a discount there, maybe HTC can go in with them somehow
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If you want to expand the player base put it in a box, wallet whatever, on a CD and sell it. Publish a book with pics stats history etc about all the aircraft in the game and include a copy of the game on a CD.
If you only want to expand the player base to enthusiasts do the same but sell it only at airshows museums and the like.
Also show it off over here in UK and Europe. Come and visit us!
:aok