Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SkyChimp on June 25, 2005, 07:23:14 AM
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Hard to put a title heh.
I was thinking of making the game more like ww2.
Complex engine management such.
I'm trying to say eng over heat guns jam such heh gear gets stuck every thing that really happened in ww2.
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targetware.net
Target Rabaul mod
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heh i can't play that game:p
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Do you have to kill yourself if you lose? ;)
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Originally posted by Rino
Do you have to kill yourself if you lose? ;)
?
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In the real war, you tended to die when you screwed up. Capping yourself after a bad run is the ultimate in realism. Why draw the line at random equipment failure or complex pilot tasks, when you can help cull the weak as well?
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Cmon guys, that is a lame comeback to the request for more realism.
I've been here for a year and a half and that comeback has been around longer. You'd guess that something more creative would have thought of by now.
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If you've been here for that long, you should know that we're not known for our creativity. Complex engine managing and spontaneous catastrophic failures are not new ideas, and neither adds much to gameplay. Who wants to log on, find a fight, take off, fly a bit, get there, and then spontaneously burst into flames or have their engine die? I don't. HiTech's come on the bbs quite a few times and made his thoughts known on all the 'realism' stuff. This might be an interesting addition to ToD, but not the MA.
Just because you can beat a dead horse doesn't mean you should.
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I agree with Hubsonfire.
Thats why I pointed him towards target.
They seem to be full blown over the top gung ho when it comes to realism.
Of course if that means that only 1 person in 20 can actually FLY a plane in RS, or TR thats ok.
At least thats the way it seems.
Yes, you CAN take realism too far.
I'd rather have immersion anyday.
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There's a difference between fun gameplay, and annoying gameplay.
There is no reason to have random explosions. There's just no point in it.
However, there is a point in complex engine management, but how you set it up is more important.
What you do is make it a CHOICE for each pilot to make. If the pilot chooses to turn on complex enginer management, he would gain some performance, but he'd be working hard to keep it there.
On the Flip side, he could possibly screw up his engine's performance.
So with this, you now have a choice to make. Do you want to keep it standard and not play with it? Or do you want to control it and possibly squeeze out a little more power?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
There's a difference between fun gameplay, and annoying gameplay.
There is no reason to have random explosions. There's just no point in it.
However, there is a point in complex engine management, but how you set it up is more important.
What you do is make it a CHOICE for each pilot to make. If the pilot chooses to turn on complex enginer management, he would gain some performance, but he'd be working hard to keep it there.
On the Flip side, he could possibly screw up his engine's performance.
So with this, you now have a choice to make. Do you want to keep it standard and not play with it? Or do you want to control it and possibly squeeze out a little more power?
In a word, NO. Why would anyone CHOOSE to do this? If you want to try this out get CFS3 and fly the 1% planes. The radial engines will overheat at low alt/low speed. You have to manage RPM, fuel mixture the whole nine yards. Why would anyone choose to do this when the guy on your six does not? IMO it's either all or none. Making it optional just adds more dweebery to the game.
It's bad enough we have the stall limiter. I CHOOSE to fly without it because I think it's dweebish, yet I know 4-5 year pilots who fly with it on. I'm beginning to think that not having it on puts me at a disadvantage. Sure I can tweek a little more turn performance out of my plane but he can high G high AOT maneuvers without worrying about a catastrophic stall.
How about some suggestions that will increase the number of dog fights in the MA? Instead of these same old suggestions about so called "realism". I've only been here a year and they are getting old for me.
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Remember this reply from another realism post? ;)
Originally posted by hitech
Basicly I call BS on your realism premis.
HiTech
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>>There's a difference between fun gameplay, and annoying gameplay.
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I agree. So explain trim. No pilot was worried about moving a hat to look over their shoulder. I think we could forget about trim given the pita it is just to look left and right and the fact peripheral vision doesn't exist in the game.
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In a word, NO. Why would anyone CHOOSE to do this? If you want to try this out get CFS3 and fly the 1% planes. The radial engines will overheat at low alt/low speed. You have to manage RPM, fuel mixture the whole nine yards. Why would anyone choose to do this when the guy on your six does not? IMO it's either all or none. Making it optional just adds more dweebery to the game.
It's bad enough we have the stall limiter. I CHOOSE to fly without it because I think it's dweebish, yet I know 4-5 year pilots who fly with it on. I'm beginning to think that not having it on puts me at a disadvantage. Sure I can tweek a little more turn performance out of my plane but he can high G high AOT maneuvers without worrying about a catastrophic stall.
How about some suggestions that will increase the number of dog fights in the MA? Instead of these same old suggestions about so called "realism". I've only been here a year and they are getting old for me.
Did you even bother to read what I wrote?
It is a fact that planes without Stall Limiter on can out perform those with Stall Limiter on. There's a higher chance you are going to snap stall, but that's the chance you take for better performance.
I don't see it as dweebish one way or another. It's a choice. If you want your plane to perform better, you have to work harder. It's the same thing with trim on your plane. It would be the same thing with engine management.
No one is going to make you turn it on. So why are you so freaked out about putting it in the game?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
No one is going to make you turn it on. So why are you so freaked out about putting it in the game?
Not that I have been a part of this discussion, but my response to this would be simple: I don't want to see HTC spending time on something like this when I would much rather see them spending time on...
A) Optomizing the existing code
B) Adding new planes
C) Improving the flight models
D) Correcting bugs
E) Fix the issues with SAVVIS
F) Anything that is currently wrong rather than add new things to clunk up to game and the code
Just my two cents...
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I think it was Sid Meier (Pirates!, Civiliztion, ect) who said "A good game presents the player with a series of interesting choices."
Having the engine fail arbitrarily or guns jam arbitrarily is not an interesting choice. It is just inflicted on the player. Did you just win that fight because you were a better pilot, or because his Bf109G-10's engine dropped to 25% power in the middle of it? Hmm?
Even having the gun have a chance of jamming when fired in high G situations would have repercussions, perhaps making the straight and level HO an even more attractive option.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Having the engine fail arbitrarily or guns jam arbitrarily is not an interesting choice. It is just inflicted on the player. Did you just win that fight because you were a better pilot, or because his Bf109G-10's engine dropped to 25% power in the middle of it? Hmm?
i know i know!!
why not make it a random lottery whether your engine will quit, or your wings fall off, or you explode for no reason when you are within 10k of an enemy base?
oh wait..... we already have puffy ack! ;)
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BTW: Why do you think we have combat trim?
You can not get rid of trim and have the plane fly anything like a real one.
lasersailor, the items you ask for do not realy provide choices, what they do in my opionion is just provide nusicance realism. I.E. System manigment, with out any good trade offs. Ah is designed around dogfighting. Rembering to open cowl flaps or to put the mixture in rich so your plane does not over heat realy has nothing to do with a dog fight. All you are realy asking for is having to rember to press 2 keys at various times.
HiTech
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I thought it was a war game :D
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Originally posted by BTW
>>There's a difference between fun gameplay, and annoying gameplay.
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I agree. So explain trim. No pilot was worried about moving a hat to look over their shoulder. I think we could forget about trim given the pita it is just to look left and right and the fact peripheral vision doesn't exist in the game.
This statement makes absolutly no sense. What does trim have to do with views?
As HT says, trim is an intricle part of flying a plane. Combat Trim helps take some of the complexities out of the equation and the fact that you cannot "feel" the control pressures that you can in a real aircraft makes it even more difficult. Trimming a virtual aircraft is a difficult process and I think HT has come up with a very workable solution with Combat Trim and the 2 auto trim functions.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Did you even bother to read what I wrote?
Yes, I read it and I still call it BS. As HT says it's nothing but a neusance. Making it optional just makes it an optional neusance.
Putting things in the game that one player can turn on and another can turn off is just dumb IMO. I uderstand the reasons for Stall Limiter I just disagree with them. I think that if you just give them the plane "AS IS" they will learn to fly it. Engine management is just a PITA and it isn't fair because the radial engine planes are at a distinct disadvantage to the water cooled engines. You get into a low, slow turn fight in an F6F with a spitfire and you have to worry about engine temp, he doesn't. UNless your going to penalize players who turn it on you gain nothing from having it on.
Have you ever flown a SIM with this modeled? I have and it's annoying.
And I'm not "freaked out". I just think there are more issues in the game that are better addressed and more things HTC can put their time to than this. Also, this idea had been addressed many time before and been squashed by HiTech already. Do a searcn of the BBS before you make a suggestion and see how manytimes it has been asked and turned down.