Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on June 26, 2005, 09:46:07 PM
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http://news.com.com/Im+innocent%2C+says+Indian+in+UK+bank+data+scandal/2100-7348_3-5762197.html?tag=cd.top
Ya gets what ya pays for ;)
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wow :eek:
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Wow alright, this guy got 2 years pay for 1000 names.
He probably doesn't give a poo about losing his job. He was probably only on contract as well (12 months?).
I wonder what privacy and IT laws are in place in India. Its time to start questioning...
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If a company cares little enough about you to hand you off to a non-native English speaker for support, why would they give a crap about keeping your information secure. That being said, a couple incidents doesn't sound that bad...not good, but I wonder how it compares to call centers in the US.
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So... he did it for 5$ a CD... who says no one here (US/EU/AUS) doesn't do it for 500$ a CD? Have we all become honnest since the outsourcing started? I think not.
I don't like the outsourcing as much as any other IT, but come on...
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Originally posted by Saintaw
So... he did it for 5$ a CD... who says no one here (US/EU/AUS) doesn't do it for 500$ a CD? Have we all become honnest since the outsourcing started? I think not.
I don't like the outsourcing as much as any other IT, but come on...
I think he sold 1 information for 5.5$, so if there were 1000 clients on CD it were 5500$. Whitch is 2x more that he earn a year.
Anyway its kinda silly to blame whole India because there is one tard.
If you want to speak about IT dumb, lets start with this (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050622/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_credit_cards_breach_1)
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It's time to hold people accountable.
Outsource something to a country that doesn't have our same legal protections, and if something goes wrong, the actual individual who authorized the outsourcing needs to be held fully accountable for all losses. If necessary, split the losses between the individual, all board members including the CEO, CFO, and COO, and the company itself.
That might just about do it. Accountability is important and those who make deliberate decisions to enter into risky business dealings, especially when private financial information is on the line, need to be fully and personally accountable for losses incurred as a result of those decisions. Outsourcing ANYTHING of a critical nature to any other country fits that description, because we have absolutely no control through laws or law enforcement over the handling of the contract or information.
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I'm a primary project manager for our sub-contracting division of our IT. We give them the work that we absolutely dislike, or do not have the manpower to sustain. (We're trying to avoid hiring, than laying off a couple years later, as we typically do when there is a new airplane on the drawing boards)
Let me just say that the people I work with directly from India are very intelligent and moral individuals and this one story above cannot paint an entire picture of outsourcing. These indians are doing an excellent job and they work very hard, harder than most american counter-parts.(Including myself ;) )
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Rip,
Their quality isn't the question. Accountability is. If one of your outsourced contractors took private information and misused it, the most you could do is terminate the contract, file a complaint in world court (haha like that would do anything) and tell your customers *oops sorry*.
Where's the accountability? Without accountability, you're relying on human nature and even people who don't hate America with a passion are still human, and people sometimes do bad things. Toss in the possibility of a contractor getting infiltrated, and now your entire company and customer base is at risk.
Someone I know found and helped the FBI catch an for-real no kidding international spy in his company... Because it was in the US, there was accountability.
Rip, if you take full responsibility for everything that happens at the outsource contractor, then go for it. If you can't answer that call, then maybe the contract should have stayed in-house or in-country.
Heck, if it's outsourcing the making of shoelaces and there is no proprietary technology in those shoelaces, then by all means please outsource. But if that contract is something even as simple as managing a contact database or handling ANY private or corporate-confidential information, someone need to be accountable and I say it ought to be whoever approved the contract, fully and personally.
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Pretty soon someone will see the value in hardworking Indian project managers who cost 10% of what the less-hardworking American project managers cost.
I'm sure they are intelligent, moral, and do an excellent job, plus they work for peanuts.
As they say, "Its all fun and games until its your eye that gets poked out," or something like that.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Let me just say that the people I work with directly from India are very intelligent and moral individuals and this one story above cannot paint an entire picture of outsourcing. These indians are doing an excellent job and they work very hard, harder than most american counter-parts.(Including myself ;) )
Come on Rip. You must be smarter than that. How can you make such a statement after dealing with whoever it is you are dealing with just over the phone, or email, etc.
The entire world is full of people that want to lie, cheat and steal, and where laws and penalties do not come into play, the lies and cheats become even greater.
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IMO, all this outsourcing needs to be cut back and the jobs brought back to America. I've dealt with several tech support people in a few different companies, and I can honestly say that they are no smarter or better suited to the job than any other "average joe" American. I mean, all they do is read a damn script, and if they can't solve your problem through the script, you get "elevated" support by someone who supposedly has some real experience.
Tech support used to b free and done by Americans, and the companies still made a profit. Now tech support costs per incident or annual contract, and it's done by cheap outsourced labor. How much profit do you think these companies make now?
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Midnight, it doesn't matter so much if the Indians are no smarter or better at the jobs as Americans, what matters to corporate executives is that they are 90% cheaper, with no healthcare costs or pension obligations. No way Americans workers can compete with that.
Yesterday's profits are no longer sufficient as a goal - they must be higher. And tomorrow, the profits must be even higher - that is the way the corp execs are looking at it -- continual improvement. Often times large bonuses are at stake.
I have been waiting for a scandal to happen; I just didn't think it would be so inconsequential as loose customer data. One day there will be a very big one break and it will be very costly.
I do like Eagl's idea about accountability though.
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I'm about to switch ISP's from Earthlink to anyone else that has people who can speak English clearly enough to be easily understood as their tech support reps. We have been with Earthlink for about 5 years now I think. It's incredibly frustrating not being able to understand the person on the other end of the phone because of a very heavy accent.
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by Midnight
Come on Rip. You must be smarter than that. How can you make such a statement after dealing with whoever it is you are dealing with just over the phone, or email, etc.
They are onsite, and offshore.
Eagl, yes, we hold them accountible for all their actions and thoroughly scrub all of our data.
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Originally posted by oboe
Midnight, it doesn't matter so much if the Indians are no smarter or better at the jobs as Americans, what matters to corporate executives is that they are 90% cheaper, with no healthcare costs or pension obligations. No way Americans workers can compete with that.
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This is not true in our case. We need extra help. Sure, we could hire contractors but being a Global company, expansion of workload helps profits.
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You have heard of Sarbanes-Oxley? Plenty of accountability there.
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Originally posted by vorticon
yes, how dare immigrents get good paying jobs where they might have to talk to good, god fearin americans like you...
Uhm, they're not immigrants. They're somebody in another country using a fake "god fearin' american" name as part of a subconscious trick to get past people's biases.
Actually, I couldn't care less about any of that. I just pray than on the occasions when I need a tech, I get somebody with a clue that's not just another drone unable to think outside of the script. Those are hard to find no matter where the call center is located.
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Originally posted by Dowding
You have heard of Sarbanes-Oxley? Plenty of accountability there.
Exactly. As a PM, you can now server federal time for cheating, lying, over estimation, etc. in a project.
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Sarbanes-Oxley sounds onerous and costly to comply with. Maybe thats another pretty strong reason to go with Indian PMs to lead the Indian programming teams.
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Originally posted by vorticon
yes, how dare immigrents get good paying jobs where they might have to talk to good, god fearin americans like you...
Yeah, it's not like the geniuses that hired people who's main
function is to communicate should actually ensure that they are
able to.
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Originally posted by vorticon
yes, how dare immigrents get good paying jobs where they might have to talk to good, god fearin americans like you...
They arent immigrants, Earthlink has outsourced their tech support to India. Try getting tech support from someone you can barely understand sometime. It's incredibly frustrating for BOTH parties.
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Hell,
We just pulled 90% of our outsourced- development back,
after the "First Release" of the product, we went thru 39 point releases in 7 Months...
the people at the top got the msg....sure anyone can write code, but not knowing the environment that the application is use in has far reaching impacts.....
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Originally posted by Dowding
You have heard of Sarbanes-Oxley? Plenty of accountability there.
LOL. Or maybe not so much. Looks to me like Scrushy has a helluva lot of gall to sit on top of a 2.7 billion accounting fraud and then claim he was the one that was attacked.
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I'm an accountant working for an American multinational. Sarbanes-Oxley scares the hell out of all the managers around here, and I work in Britain.
Just mention a problem is a SOX issue and it is sorted. Simple as that.
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Well it looks like all you guys can rest a little easier now. All you have to do if you get caught doing something is turn on the ol' born again Christian charm and claim the federal government is out of control and could be attacking anyone next.