Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AmRaaM on June 28, 2005, 09:03:38 PM
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why not craters that are craters like in WB, will and some tactics to the game instead of the ever boring never ending stream of planes taking off at a so called capped base.
prolly a dead horse but will add fun to the game currently not there.
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I agree. I'd like to be able to bomb the crap out of the field in general to take down it's ability to roll fighters or bombers. For instance, set a tonnage that needs to be dropped to prevent bombers or fighter from rolling for 15 minutes or so. The tonnage would need to be high, but only reasonably so (to avoide a single box from doing the job or making it so difficult that it is pointless to try. It could also have a repair rate like the hangars do so that the accumately damage goes away with time. It would give buffs a better role in winning the war.
At the very least it would be nice if craters had more effect that just eye candy. They do in other online massively-multiplayer flight sims. I would like to see it here.
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In offline mode you can destroy the runway. Dont know if its possible in MA, but takes LOADS OF BOMBS
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How is this different from destroing the FHs?
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Originally posted by dedalos
How is this different from destroing the FHs?
Because it prevents everything from taking off and not just fighters. When the tonnage about for a field is reach it would "close" and nothing could spawn from it until the time expired.
Now, the down side (at least the big one I can think of) is the same as now: we have a lot of suicide dive-bombing buffs out there and this would likely add to it. The way to fix that, of course, is to fix the game so that B-17s, B-24s, Lancs or JU-88s can't release bombs from any position but the bomb-sight.
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Originally posted by Blammo
Because it prevents everything from taking off and not just fighters. When the tonnage about for a field is reach it would "close" and nothing could spawn from it until the time expired.
Now, the down side (at least the big one I can think of) is the same as now: we have a lot of suicide dive-bombing buffs out there and this would likely add to it. The way to fix that, of course, is to fix the game so that B-17s, B-24s, Lancs or JU-88s can't release bombs from any position but the bomb-sight.
If the tonage is more than whats needed to hit the FH and BH they will still go for hangars. Now one really cares about BH anyway so the FHs would still be the target.
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Originally posted by AmRaaM
why not craters that are craters like in WB, will and some tactics to the game instead of the ever boring never ending stream of planes taking off
I don't understand why everyone is trying to come up with ideas to restrict people from logging on and flying. It's bad enough that hangers are destroyed and you can't fly or use a GV. When I log on I'd like to find the action and go get involved, but if I have to click my way around from field to field just so I can up, it gets frustrating and I might as well go watch a movie :(
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Originally posted by Alky
I don't understand why everyone is trying to come up with ideas to restrict people from logging on and flying. It's bad enough that hangers are destroyed and you can't fly or use a GV. When I log on I'd like to find the action and go get involved, but if I have to click my way around from field to field just so I can up, it gets frustrating and I might as well go watch a movie :(
Because they can't capture a field w/out taking the FHs down. They are incapable of holding cap, they don't know how to time the goon to get there right after the town is down and they have no concept of how useless a base is that has no fighter hangers. They will flatten a base, take it and them move on to some other area of the arena. No one uses the base for 15 minutes or so and the other side just takes it right back. What is the point!
Hear is an example of some of the intelligence we have to deal with in the MA. We are capturing a 3k base to use as a "base-of-operations". VH is down FH's are up town is almost down and we have effective CAP, goon is on it's way in to drop troops. Along comes another Bish who zooms in and porks troops. WHY?
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What Clifra said ...
Yet another idea that is focused on stopping the FIGHT. Heaven forbid that one would have to fight, and fight smartly to gain a just reward.
Let's just bomb the piss out of the runway (much easier to hit than hangers) and not let anybody take off ... cause ... if they do get off the ground ... they might KILL ME ... OH THE HORROR !!!
Again ... if this is a "realism" thingy ... TOD is for you ... not the MA.
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Who says you have to use the runway to take off. many a field was grass in ww2 so lets see if people can use it to launch, would need to add maintenace bulldozers to clean up the bomb craters. This way you could derease the time the runway was not usable
DarkHawk
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Sorry, I disagree. I don't think the ideal of cratering or using tonnage to cause the enemy problems is stopping the fight. To be honest, if you don't have enough wit to adjust to the changing situation (ie, runway cratered, hangars down, base closed), then AH is not for you....perhaps Free Cell is more you style?
And it is a big assumption to say people want these things because they don't know how to hold a cap or time the goon or whatever. The MA is not that simple. I have been a part of and carried out missions that went just like that--sneak to target, town down, goon in, base ours--and multiple time in a night. My only interest is it adds a new dimension to the game and new dimension require new tactics...that's all.
I do wonder, Slap, what's the difference between bombing the crap out of a field so nothing can get up or CAPping (a.k.a. Vultching) it so nothing can get up? Same results. And it would still take a dedicated coordinated effort? What is there to fear in a change that is just another way to accomplish the same thing?
All that said, the MA is fine, as it is. Some changes would be nice, but then the "all-I-want-to-do-is-furball" crowd would have nothing to do.
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I do wonder, Slap, what's the difference between bombing the crap out of a field so nothing can get up or CAPping (a.k.a. Vultching) it so nothing can get up? Same results. And it would still take a dedicated coordinated effort? What is there to fear in a change that is just another way to accomplish the same thing?
There is a difference between making a field completely inoperable (taking all FH down as we now know it) and having to keep an organized CAP.
Once the FHs are down, there is nothing anybody can do to try and lift to present a defense ... same would apply to cratering the field to the point that one could not roll without ripping their gear off or not be able to lift at all.
With a CAP ... you better have enough guys and bullets because at some point, if they are determined, some will get off the ground and start to present a defense.
Was at a field the other day providing CAP ... I couldn't kill them fast enuff and neither could the other 4 friendlys that were CAPping too. In no time, the lifters outnumbered the CAPers and the attack was spoiled.
See ... with a CAP, they had a chance to put up a fight and succeeded in thwarting the attack and many good fights happened as a result ... making the field inoperatable ... they have no chance ... hence no fights.
Making a field inoperatable sucks for all involved.
"all-I-want-to-do-is-furball" crowd would have nothing to do
It really is ... "all-I-want-to-do-is-FIGHT" crowd. A furball is the result when they all come together. For the most part, we don't care if we die and live for confrontation ... win or lose ... its all in the fight.
I am not here to extoll the virtues of "furballers" over "stratdudez" ... I'm just don't want to see any changes that would stiffle/smother/hinder fighting in anyway ... and I can see this type of change doing just that.
Patience ... TOD will be here soon enough (2 weeks I heard !!!)
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Originally posted by Blammo
.I do wonder, Slap, what's the difference between bombing the crap out of a field so nothing can get up or CAPping (a.k.a. Vultching) it so nothing can get up? Same results. And it would still take a dedicated coordinated effort? What is there to fear in a change that is just another way to accomplish the same thing?
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The difference is that eventually, I do make it off the grownd and a few will pay for their missed vulch oportunity. Sometime, the goon will die too. Then they come here and start PERK THE LALA or How to not let planes up threads.
No, I am not that good. They are that bad.
Oh, and the situation is not changing. You just want it to.
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You tell me Blammo what other reason are all these "hinder the fighters" threads all about?
I quit a squad because of this mentality. Flying around in circles with nothing to do, no threats in site and then everyone strokes each others thing when the base is captured. Sorry it just plain boring.
Limit the number of planes / base
soften the hangers
crater the air field
perk the LA7
What does this accomplish? Makes life easy for all those folks that don't want to have to face fighters and make those of us who log on to "engage the enemy" have to fly 30 minutes to find a fight.
Know what I say? Perk the B24s, B17s! As a matter of fact perk all the bombers. That should cut down on the dive bombing suicide dweebosity!
How would you feel about my suggestion for covert bases hidden from the map? Would you support that? That add a sense of realism as much as any idea I've read here? But then you'd have to deal with fighters you did not know where there and that would spoil "your fun"! Can't have that now can we.
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Look, don't take it all so personal. I didn't start the thread, just throwing my opinion into the pot. Like I said, the MA is fine with me. I might try different things if I was in charge, but I am not so I dance with the one that brought me.
I can't answer for all the "hinder the fighter" threads. I don't start them. I don't want the LA-7 perked...it isn't that nice of ride. Again, I don't see what I was talking about as that radical, but it's cool if y'all do.
By the way, I think it would be great to have bases more randomized in position, Cliffra. I would love the challenge.
Like I said, don't get so torn up...it was just a thought.
Thanks for the explination of your view, Slap.
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Thanks for the explination of your view, Slap.
No problemo bud !!! <>
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I will agree to the 'craters' idea on two conditions;
* some serious penalty must be done against people who bomb bases at low alts
* there must be some way to clean up the crater mess quickly.
I wouldn't mind if enemy bombers slip in from high altitudes and bombs the runway into drilled pulp. But as it is, when there are fights with equal numbers of pilots engaging at a front, a buff can slip in NOE and just spray bombs everywhere at low alts.
They don't even need calibration or specific targetting, and they certainly don't care if they die after the job gets done. That's why they come in at such low alts in the first place - hence, the term "suicidal buffers".
Bombing runways is extremely easier than hitting specific hangars in that a bomb run with low-accuracy can still dig holes into multiple runway directions at the same time. Imagine a suicidal B-24 with massive load of 500lbs bombs just squirts its load at the middle of the runway and gets shot down immediately after. Just one successful dweebery and the runway is paved everywhere, making it difficult for fighters to take off.
Besides, if such easy mode bombing would become so effective, then there must be a means to repair it easily as well... somthing like one M-3 field supply filling up 20 crater holes with a single resupp drop.. or something..
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Originally posted by dedalos
The difference is that eventually, I do make it off the grownd and a few will pay for their missed vulch oportunity.
I admire your dedication. I get pissed off after getting vulched 2 or 3 times and move to another nearby base and then fly back to fight from there. The effect to me is the same as a fighter hanger down except that it costs me 3 planes before I wise up and go to a nearby base. Although is IS fun when the vulchers wiff and let you up. ;)
Woof
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If I remember correctly, in AW, when a bomb hit the runway it created a crater that U couldn't hit with your plane or u knock your gear off if not kill ya.
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
I admire your dedication. I get pissed off after getting vulched 2 or 3 times and move to another nearby base and then fly back to fight from there. The effect to me is the same as a fighter hanger down except that it costs me 3 planes before I wise up and go to a nearby base. Although is IS fun when the vulchers wiff and let you up. ;)
Woof
Not dedication, I just like going after serten people when they vulch me. If there is no hope of taking off, I give up. But some times, I just have to get those two or three guys
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I will agree to the 'craters' idea on two conditions;
* some serious penalty must be done against people who bomb bases at low alts
* there must be some way to clean up the crater mess quickly.
I wouldn't mind if enemy bombers slip in from high altitudes and bombs the runway into drilled pulp. But as it is, when there are fights with equal numbers of pilots engaging at a front, a buff can slip in NOE and just spray bombs everywhere at low alts.
They don't even need calibration or specific targetting, and they certainly don't care if they die after the job gets done. That's why they come in at such low alts in the first place - hence, the term "suicidal buffers".
Bombing runways is extremely easier than hitting specific hangars in that a bomb run with low-accuracy can still dig holes into multiple runway directions at the same time. Imagine a suicidal B-24 with massive load of 500lbs bombs just squirts its load at the middle of the runway and gets shot down immediately after. Just one successful dweebery and the runway is paved everywhere, making it difficult for fighters to take off.
Besides, if such easy mode bombing would become so effective, then there must be a means to repair it easily as well... somthing like one M-3 field supply filling up 20 crater holes with a single resupp drop.. or something..
For once, I'm in full agreement. :aok
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Originally posted by AmRaaM
why not craters that are craters like in WB, will and some tactics to the game instead of the ever boring never ending stream of planes taking off at a so called capped base.
prolly a dead horse but will add fun to the game currently not there.
Why not we try to make sentense seem so it can will be able to be readable. 'N put it together to paragraph so I understand can it.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I will agree to the 'craters' idea on two conditions;
* some serious penalty must be done against people who bomb bases at low alts
* there must be some way to clean up the crater mess quickly.
Kweassa's new ride:
(http://www.shiawasseeroads.com/v3.0/images/d3.jpg)
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Why not we try to make sentense seem so it can will be able to be readable. 'N put it together to paragraph so I understand can it.
ROFLOL:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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As much as I hate to bring this up, the Ju-88s were fully able to dive bomb. They were designed to do both level and dive bombing. It was a requirement for all German bombers with the only exception of the He-111. Even the large He-177 was required to be able to dive bomb. It was a silly requirement but none the less, it was a standard requirement.
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Originally posted by TheCage
As much as I hate to bring this up, the Ju-88s were fully able to dive bomb. They were designed to do both level and dive bombing. It was a requirement for all German bombers with the only exception of the He-111. Even the large He-177 was required to be able to dive bomb. It was a silly requirement but none the less, it was a standard requirement.
And the last time you saw JU88s dive bomb was? :D
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And the last time you saw JU88s dive bomb was?
Apparently you don't know your aircraft history to well. The Luftwaffe's more versatile aircraft the Junkers Ju-88 originated in 1936, and remained in production for the entire war. 16,000 of these aircraft were built from 1939-1945, built in numerous versions. In this constant evolution in which the Junkers passed from it's intital role of fast bomber to that of night fighter, reconnaissance plane, dive-bomber, ground attack aircraft, and finally torpedo bomber, the basic structure remained virtually the same. As for the last time I saw one do it, try the Military Channel when the did a piece on the Ju-88, where they clearly showed it doing dive bombing runs.
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Originally posted by TheCage
Apparently you don't know your aircraft history to well. The Luftwaffe's more versatile aircraft the Junkers Ju-88 originated in 1936, and remained in production for the entire war. 16,000 of these aircraft were built from 1939-1945, built in numerous versions. In this constant evolution in which the Junkers passed from it's intital role of fast bomber to that of night fighter, reconnaissance plane, dive-bomber, ground attack aircraft, and finally torpedo bomber, the basic structure remained virtually the same. As for the last time I saw one do it, try the Military Channel when the did a piece on the Ju-88, where they clearly showed it doing dive bombing runs.
He meant in game. You never see 88's divin ingame. It's always 17's 24's or lancs
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Originally posted by SuperDud
He meant in game. You never see 88's divin ingame. It's always 17's 24's or lancs
Wrong.. I have been flying in TT on the Baltic map i think, and i see loads of Stukas and Ju88s
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it would vary in whether a "upper" is able to take off , there still alot of open space normally to get a run and with the size of maps here there are always other bases nearby, its an unfair advantage for defenders that they are able to take off every 3 secs basically unimpeded by travel time while attackers have to travel the distance. I feel it would make the map more fluid and less prone to the dedlocked forward base furball standoff and make loggin on "funner" for a greater # of people since the # that log on to AH now a days is 3 times what it used to be, Its obvious that when the countries are basically equal in #s that its just a deadlocked situation and that being the aggressor has no real value thus making the "attack" a waste of time for a great # of people that can only play during the average times off from work or school. A more fluid map would also add greater importance to strategic bombing.
Also cratering would not need any clean up , just make it last a very few minutes say 3-5 , since in AH life running a dozer to fill a hole takes hardly anytime compared to construction of a new hanger.
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Originally posted by jetb123
Wrong.. I have been flying in TT on the Baltic map i think, and i see loads of Stukas and Ju88s
Yeah, I fly there a lot too and all I see are lancs and 24's. And we are speaking more for base bombing. Not killing tanks. How often do you see 88's screamin in to take out FHs?
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Back in the old says of AH, you could actually cause "real" craters. Planes would lose landing gear or clip wingtips on them and find themselves unable to take off. So basically you're suggesting that HTC add in a feature that they already removed because it didn't work.
Why didn't it work? Simple. One guy in a P-47 could dive in and drop one bomb exactly in front of every spawn point at a base. Some players actually specialized in this. Thus if you attempted to roll in anything, be it a fighter or a bomber, you could not avoid running into the crater and ruining your plane. Thus one plane could essentially defeat an entire base without dropping fuel, fighter hangars, bomber hangars, or whatever. That leads to some really crappy gameplay.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by TheCage
Apparently you don't know your aircraft history to well. The Luftwaffe's more versatile aircraft the Junkers Ju-88 originated in 1936, and remained in production for the entire war. 16,000 of these aircraft were built from 1939-1945, built in numerous versions. In this constant evolution in which the Junkers passed from it's intital role of fast bomber to that of night fighter, reconnaissance plane, dive-bomber, ground attack aircraft, and finally torpedo bomber, the basic structure remained virtually the same. As for the last time I saw one do it, try the Military Channel when the did a piece on the Ju-88, where they clearly showed it doing dive bombing runs.
Apparently you don't know where you are, lol. In the game!!! When was the last time you saw 88s dive bomb in the game? :lol
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What Lev said, and HT said himself it was a ***** to manage of in terms of bandwidth/synchronization.
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Apparently you don't know where you are, lol. In the game!!! When was the last time you saw 88s dive bomb in the game?
The last time I saw it was when I was flying one :aok . But I won't argue the point as that would be uselss. I agree about dive bombing with the 17 and 24s, just not with lumping in the Ju-88s. Many cry about realism then lump in planes that could actually do what they are complaining about. While AH does not have time delay fueses or parabombs, it also a well known fact that B-17s, B24s, and B-25s did do low level bombing down on the deck. But like I said I agree with dive bombing with the B24s, B17s and Lancs or any other bomber that was not able to to it. I was just pointing out that the Ju-88 was fully able to dive bomb in RL and in this game. :D
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Originally posted by TheCage
The last time I saw it was when I was flying one :aok . But I won't argue the point as that would be uselss. I agree about dive bombing with the 17 and 24s, just not with lumping in the Ju-88s. Many cry about realism then lump in planes that could actually do what they are complaining about. While AH does not have time delay fueses or parabombs, it also a well known fact that B-17s, B24s, and B-25s did do low level bombing down on the deck. But like I said I agree with dive bombing with the B24s, B17s and Lancs or any other bomber that was not able to to it. I was just pointing out that the Ju-88 was fully able to dive bomb in RL and in this game. :D
I am pointing the same thing, lol. Even though 88s could do it, the choice is LANCs, 24s, 17s, and 26s.
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Originally posted by TheCage
...While AH does not have time delay fueses or parabombs, it also a well known fact that B-17s, B24s, and B-25s did do low level bombing down on the deck...
And the losses for those bombers were generally so great (and the results so poor) when performing as a low level bomber that such operations were suspended or very rare.
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short timers on the craters would solve the 'one plane' chocking off an entire base, bigger the bomb the longer the repair delay, smaller the bomb the shorter....
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You are correct Blammo in the European theater, how ever they were very successfull in the pacific. Even in Alaska:) . Bombers in the Pacific use delayed fused bombs, and parabombs. Would be nice if they had that here. In Alaska it was weather that force the bombers to come in at low level. Most days you were down on the deck because of cloud cover. But NOE bombing is nothing new, many use to do that in Air Warrior. Fly to the target on the deck, then pop up to 600 or 700 feet, then pop into the bomb site and bombs away. Was a great way to shut down a base quickly. If people in this game can do it, more power to them. As for cratering the runways, yes it works, but to many game the game and bomb the spawn points which ruin it for every one else. If the spawn point areas were bomb proof, then I would agree.