Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on June 30, 2005, 12:08:29 AM
-
Linky (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-06-29-teflon-usat_x.htm)
A chemical used to make Teflon, Gore-Tex and stain-resistant coatings is more likely to cause cancer than the government has previously acknowledged, according to a scientific panel.
PFOA, or perfluorooctanoic acid, is a "likely carcinogen" according to an advisory board to the Environmental Protection Agency. The science panel's pronouncement is the first step in a process that could result in the agency regulating or even banning some uses of the popular manufacturing agent.
Health and environmental experts have raised red flags about PFOA because of its pervasiveness. Tests by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found PFOA in the blood of 95% of Americans, though researchers don't yet know how it's getting there.
PFOA is used in the manufacture of Teflon coatings on pans. It is also found in widely used coatings that make upholstery and clothing stain-resistant and in a grease-resistant coating on microwave popcorn and fast-food packaging among others.
Delaware-based DuPont is already potentially liable for millions of dollars in fines to the EPA for failing to report significant information about the health risks posed by PFOA at its plant in Parkersburg, W.Va. The corporation was cited for failing to pass along the results of health tests it had done on workers at the plant.
That Washington Works plant on the Ohio River uses PFOA to manufacture fluoropolymers, temperature-resistant plastics that include some Teflon products. Last year, the company settled a class-action lawsuit brought by 60,000 residents of West Virginia and Ohio for as much as $343 million. The lawsuit accused the corporation of contaminating drinking water with PFOA from the Parkersburg plant.
Richard Wiles of the Environmental Working Group, an environmental research organization that has taken on PFOA, says DuPont is just fighting to protect one of its revenue sources.
"What DuPont is worried about is that this whole line of chemistry is on the block. PFOS, a similar compound, was taken off the market in 1999 and PFOA is next. They're way invested in this chemistry."
Finding different ways to create these sturdy coatings has become a mission for "green" chemists. These scientists have been searching for ways to manufacture products that fuel the U.S. economy and lifestyle without the environmental damage that has surfaced in recent years.
Researchers at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill have found a way to develop non-stick coatings using carbon dioxide, which does not produce PFOA. But DuPont spokesman Clifton Webb said the process doesn't produce a product that is high-enough quality for many uses.
Scary stuff when you think about it. How many of us have eaten food prepared in nonstick pans?
(http://www.stupid.com/Merchant2/graphics/products/Blinky_beauty.gif)
-
in the last week i have heard of 3 people with colon cancer.
none in my direct knowledge / family that has used only stainless steel / cast iron.
makes you wonder.
-
Originally posted by JB73
in the last week i have heard of 3 people with colon cancer.
none in my direct knowledge / family that has used only stainless steel / cast iron.
makes you wonder.
Colon Cancer runs in my family from the 1800's. They didn't have "non-stick pans" back then.
It comes down to Diet.
Karaya
-
Some families are just geneticly cursed. I know a guy whose Mom, Dad, brother and sister died of cancer. His other sister is fighting breast cancer and he just had a cancerous growth removed from his throat. None of them ever smoked.
Some people get cancer from out of the blue. No family history, no major risk factors. This could turn into a very big deal if it's positively linked to cancer thru consumer exposure.
-
Originally posted by JB73
in the last week i have heard of 3 people with colon cancer.
none in my direct knowledge / family that has used only stainless steel / cast iron.
makes you wonder.
Actually my oncologist said that most men develop colon cancer in their later years but it usually moves so slowly that men usually die from old age or other natural causes long before it reaches a state where its a problem
-
When I had a pet parrot I read a lot about care and health of pet birds and often saw warnings against using non stick pans in your house - apparently the fumes they let off could kill the birds.
Hmmm..
-
While PFOA is used to make Teflon (PTFE), it is not present in Teflon itself, which is applied to cookware, clothing, car parts and flooring.
-
Tests by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found PFOA in the blood of 95% of Americans
-
Yanno whats scarier than that?
With all the advances in modern science and medicine, the best test we can come up with for Colon problems Doc's finger stuck up yer butt.
-
There have been no adverse health effects for employees caused by exposure to PFOA in the workplace. This conclusion is supported by clinical and mortality studies of chemical production employees at facilities where PFOA was manufactured. Levels found among the general public or in the environment are even lower than workplace levels.
Although adverse effects have been observed in laboratory studies of animals exposed to high levels of PFOA, these studies and exposure levels were designed to produce effects in order to better understand the toxicology of PFOA. The fluoropolymer industry and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are continuing to explore the potential relevance of the findings.
Decades of employee health monitoring, including many studies published in the open scientific literature, reveal no adverse health effects in chemical production workers caused by exposure to PFOA when workplace exposure guidelines are followed.
... new technology has reduced emissions from PFOA manufacturing in the United States by 99 percent, and the principal fluoropolymer producers have each committed to a minimum 50-percent reduction in total global emissions by 2006 (using 2000 as the baseline year).
-
Also asbestos was researched and deemed totally safe by the US industries for decades.
Monney makes the world go round.. the world go round.. etc.
-
So anything against money grubbing evil corporations is therefore pristine and factual?
Or are we going to calmly look at the entire data set and make an informed opinion?
Seems to me that maybe only one or two on this BBS ever heard of PFOA before a few hours ago.
-
Same applied to asbestos. It was used everywhere, very few knew it was there (such as regular building cement.)
Of course it might be a false alarm but history shows that corporations have altered and dumped research data that could have saved millions of lives.
Tobacco industry and asbestos industry to name the obvious.
It might be that the american liability suite system is starting to work against itself. When big corps mass produce a leathal product and find it out, they do everything in thier power to stop it from coming into public knowledge and maximise the profits before the ***** hits the fan. Move assets to cayman islands, change CEO at a strategic moment and all is good.
-
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Same applied to asbestos. It was used everywhere, very few knew it was there (such as regular building cement.)
Asbestos is only dangerous when in particulate form in the air, and for long durations of exposure. (i.e. the poor bastards who applied the stuff) The same is true of coal dust, quartz, and common flour. Working in a building that is insulated by asbestos is normally safe.
As for the teflon pans,
"PFOA is used in the manufacture of Teflon coatings on pans." This is not saying "PFOA IS IN YOUR TEFLON PANS! OMG YOU"RE GUNNA DIE OF CANCER!" This is saying that the people involved in the factories making this stuff, and those in the nearby potentially contaminated areas are at risk. Not Joe-nonstick cookware-Schmoe.
A lot of VERY hazardous chemicals are used in the production of almost everything you have in your home.
-
That's where you're wrong Innominate. Asbestos is hazardous in extremely small quantities and everyone is at danger as long as there is asbestos around. It is said that it takes only one asbestos fiber in lungs to eventually develop into cancer. Longer exposures only shorten the developing.
Asbestos insulations are not dangerous as long as nobody touches them - but during maintenance or renovation dust particles fly around and _will_ contaminate most of the building unless safety measures are taken. That means isolating the whole renovated area with underpressurization and workers must use special suits and breathing air filtering.
Anyone of us could be exposed to asbestos even by a simple task of drilling a hole in an old cement wall. During 70's asbestos was commonly used in cements (kitchen walls, fireplaces) anyplace that was exposed to heat. Heck they made cooking plates from the stuff.
-
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
That's where you're wrong Innominate. Asbestos is hazardous in extremely small quantities and everyone is at danger as long as there is asbestos around. It is said that it takes only one asbestos fiber in lungs to eventually develop into cancer. Longer exposures only shorten the developing.
link (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_1_3X_Asbestos.asp?sitearea=PED)
Approximately one in seven people who suffer from asbestosis, a lung disease caused by prolonged high exposure, eventually develop lung cancer. The higher the exposure to asbestos, the higher the risk of lung cancer. There is synergy between cigarette smoking and asbestos exposure in causing lung cancer; asbestos workers who smoke face a much higher risk than asbestos workers who do not smoke. Evidence suggests that asbestos-exposed workers who quit smoking can reduce their risk of developing lung cancer by as much as fifty percent within five years of quitting (NCI).
Mesothelioma
Mesothelioma is a rare form of cancer that affects the thin membranes lining the abdomen and chest. Mesothelioma is closely linked with asbestos; most cases of mesothelioma result from direct occupational asbestos exposure.
However, mesotheliomas have been observed not only among workers who are occupationally exposed to crocidolite, amosite, and chrysotile, but also among their family members, and people living in the neighborhoods surrounding asbestos factories and mines (IARC). It is estimated that one third of the mesothelioma cases in the U.S. may be due to non-occupational exposure such as these (IARC). Although scientists know that the risk of developing mesothelioma increases with the amount of asbestos exposure, there is no way to measure exactly the minimum amount of asbestos exposure that can lead to mesothelioma. However, mesothelioma is very rare in the general population of the United States.
One cigarette will not necesarily cause lung cancer, and whoever said one asbestos fiber will cause you to die a horrible cancerous death is wrong according to the American Cancer Society.
While your chances go up with exposure, only 1 in 7 who already have asbestosis due to prolonged exposure in an asbestos factory develop cancer.
Perhaps I should have posted this in the useless information thread, as the truth will not make any difference.
The sky isn't falling.
-
However, mesotheliomas have been observed not only among workers who are occupationally exposed to crocidolite, amosite, and chrysotile, but also among their family members, and people living in the neighborhoods surrounding asbestos factories and mines (IARC). It is estimated that one third of the mesothelioma cases in the U.S. may be due to non-occupational exposure such as these (IARC). Although scientists know that the risk of developing mesothelioma increases with the amount of asbestos exposure, there is no way to measure exactly the minimum amount of asbestos exposure that can lead to mesothelioma.
Thanks for remaking my point - people have got cancer from transient asbestod dust carried home in plain clothes.
-
13 years ago I had a roommate who had a medical doctorate (trained in Germany). He would not eat anything that had been cooked on Teflon.
eskimo
-
So Saif, you ignore the 1 in 7 well studied statistical figure that says your statement was unsupported and zoom in on the anecdotal evidence that proves your point.
item: 1 in 7 people who have asbestosis due to heavy prolonged exposure to asbestos fibers develop cancer.
you seem to believe that:
item: asbestos is so hazardous that one fiber dooms you to a horrible cancer death.
The only way these items are both correct is if asbestosis builds the human resistance to cancer.
God, you practice good science.
-
One in seven subjects is an extremely high cancer rate. Your equation leaves out the vast masses who get lesser-than-asbestosis level exposures and do develop cancer as a result.
It is said that one fiber is enough to develop into cancer - now will that happen during that persons lifetime or not is a different issue. Nevertheless even the smallest exposure presents you with a deadly hazard.
Asbestos workers familymembers have died to asbestos carried home in the workers civillian clothes. Downplay the risks all you like, I call that a horrible result of an extremely hazardous product.
-
Perhaps a common sense approach is in order.
The human body is comprised of elements found in nature. Anything man-made which could harm those elements in nature would probably harm the human body as well.
In some cases it may take years of exposure, in others not so much. In some cases the body can repair the damage, in others, not so much.
Overheat a teflon coated pan and it puts out a poisonous gas, use unsealed ceramic containers and they leech lead. I am not big on polymer based food containers as the potential for leeching resins is high as well.
-
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
One in seven subjects is an extremely high cancer rate.
One in seven that are already are diseased with asbestosis.[/i]
That's like saying one in seven pedestrians who are hit by a car needs a transfusion. Firsts the pedestrian must be hit bay a car. Make it accross the street without being hit and the chance of needing a transfusion diminishes greatly.
Many workers in asbestos factories work a career and are not stricken with asbestosis. As a matter of fact, most people with a history of prolonged exposure don't develop asbestosis, and the risk of asbestosis diminishes every day away from exposure.
The item we started with says that PFOA is possibly dangerous. PFOA is used in the making of teflon and other consumer products, but is not in the final product.
But, let's ban it anyway, it might me dangerous.
Then, let's go have a few beers, drive home w/o a seatbelt and smoke a few.
-
already diseased with asbestosis
But you need to understand you do _not_ need to have diagnosed asbestosis in order to develop an asbestos related cancer.
PFOA is indeed a different issue here. The discussion went sideways when you for some reason started to defend an already banned substance which has already been internationally acknowledged as hazardous. Substance which continued use purely because big money suppressed scientific findings about its danger.
Which is why I compared PFOA to asbestos research results, they should be taken with a grain of salt as long as they're made by anything else than a totally independent organization.
A bit like Nokia conducting research about dangers of cellular phone radiation.. yeah right. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Actually my oncologist said that most men develop colon cancer in their later years but it usually moves so slowly that men usually die from old age or other natural causes long before it reaches a state where its a problem
cc i have heard about men... all the people i know that got it are women though.
-
Interesting thing about teflon, Parrots and teflon can't be in the same house. Cooking with it can kill them. Not a joke.
Remember when they used canarys in mines ?
-
Originally posted by rpm
Scary stuff when you think about it. How many of us have eaten food prepared in nonstick pans?
Maybe a little, but I don't buy non-stick pans. They don't last and they're a pain in the bellybutton to care for. Cast aluminum baby.
-
Rofl sandman youre kidding right?
-
Saif, do you have a hat made out of tin foil?
-
Oxides from aluminum are known to effect the brain in odd ways. Parkinsons? No,..Lou Gehrigs maybe. I cannot recall which, but it ain't good.
-
Hundreds of millions of people use the no stick stuff to cook on. How many of those people will die someday? Lord only knows.
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Oxides from aluminum are known to effect the brain in odd ways. Parkinsons? No,..Lou Gehrigs maybe. I cannot recall which, but it ain't good.
alzheimers is what i heard...
"
Scary stuff when you think about it. How many of us have eaten food prepared in nonstick pans? "
everyone, but i dont use it myself, same reason as sandman, and honestly i think stuff made with cast iron tastes better...
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Oxides from aluminum are known to effect the brain in odd ways. Parkinsons? No,..Lou Gehrigs maybe. I cannot recall which, but it ain't good.
alzhemiers IIRC...
they think there is a coorelation between the use of anti-perspirant (which uses alumium powder in some way) being absorbed into the blood stream
-
I use cast iron stuff to cook with. Got tired of the roomate complaining about scratching her non-stick skillets.
-
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Rofl sandman youre kidding right?
I am. :)
The only thing I have that's cast aluminum is a 50 year-old dutch oven. It still works though. :)