Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rabbidrabbit on June 30, 2005, 11:37:13 AM
-
OK,
My second x45 is flaking out into oblivion so I'm thinking about a new Hotas setup. I liked the x45 , for 40 bucks its a great bargain but it's just not reliable nor does it seem very percise.
I'm thinking a fighterstick usb for a stick and a x52 throttle but does the x52 throttle have a usb connector or the same freaky plug the x45 throttle has? I think the x45 has a serial port connector but I might be wrong. Do I need the x52 stick to use the x52 throttle? Any better ideas?
-
It's expensive, but nothing beats the whole CH products setup. I have the stick, rudders, and throttle all CH, and have never been happier--except in the good ol' days, when I had a saitek x36 setup.
The CH stick has very low stick forces compared to the x45, though, and it will require some getting used to.
-
MS stick, CH throttle, TM pedals.
Some like CH pedals, I prefer TM pedals because they are set wider apart and don't move independantly.
CH pedals are better suited for auto racing games.
CH sticks are very good, but they aren't optical, so they will spike. I had a x36 stick throttle setup, throttle was a bit more usefull than the stick, which was a POC. Even my Suncom setup was better.
-
ThrustMaster F-22 & TQS. Unfortunately, they aren't made anymore, so this doesn't really help you. Your welcome. ;)
-
Have an old analog/serial CH suite, stick, pedals & throttle. Was good 'back in the day' but when the new usb/digital setups came out the speed and precison difference was very noticeable.
I was very happy with the CH gear.. only gripe is to re-buy it all digital costs more than I'm willing to spend.
I keep hearing from the Saitek users about early 'wearout' and other problems.. seems the CH stuff lasts a whole lot longer.. particularly if you fly a lot and fly agressively.
-
Check back through the Hardware/Software forum. We just had this discussion over there. Me I guess I am a hardcore because I wouldn't trade my Cougar HOTAS setup for anything. I have tried all the others and keep coming back to that one.
-
I was instantly turned off by saitek sticks. It felt like a joystick with a big thick rubber gearshift boot on it. At the '02 AH con I could've had an x45 for free as a prize. I'm glad I had allready used one before that.
-
Cougar Hotass was the WWII Online of computer game flight controllers. Dmdmax and Hristo hit the nail on the head with their amazon.com reviews.
I also notice that a lot of players here that gave the cougar a lot of praise when it first came out don't use it anymore.
As the pirate flag dude pointed out, he's one of the hardcore because he still uses his.
-
Get the CH USB stuff. Stick, pedals, throttle.
I don't even do flight sims anymore and I still use this stuff because of the programmability. And they have the best customer service of any PC hardware company I have encountered.
-
whats with the beefing that ch has a weak throttle setup then? Ie no dials etc... I have to admit I like using the dials especially for rpm.. Thats the reason I was pondering using the x52 throttle with the fighterstick.. the best of both worlds...
-
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Get the CH USB stuff. Stick, pedals, throttle.
I don't even do flight sims anymore and I still use this stuff because of the programmability. And they have the best customer service of any PC hardware company I have encountered.
If it's so good, why are you knowledgable about their costomer service?
:p
Don't fret Rabisrabbit, you can't go wrong with CH stuff. I really like the throttle, because it is the only one I can find that isn't desinged to rotate on an axis against gravity, it is a flat sliding mechanism.
Which is almost as good as a side mounted suspened sliding mechanism. I'm still waiting on one of those.
-
Originally posted by Suave
Cougar Hotass was the WWII Online of computer game flight controllers. Dmdmax and Hristo hit the nail on the head with their amazon.com reviews.
I also notice that a lot of players here that gave the cougar a lot of praise when it first came out don't use it anymore.
As the pirate flag dude pointed out, he's one of the hardcore because he still uses his.
I think the Cougar was a almost a fantastic piece of hardware. They got 99% there, and then skimped on a couple of critical building blocks. Even if they had gone the whole way, I might still have ended up back at the F22, as I just like the feel of it better (movement, tension). I took one of the best parts of the Cougar set (the hat switches), and installed them into my F22 and TQS. If I had the cash, I might have tried one of the more expensive mods that took the Cougar to 100%.
-
I agree critical is an apt adjective.
-
Yep. Use of the soft metals for the gimbals: stupid. Use of plastic instead of metal in the arm of the throttle: stupid. Use of pots instead of a digital device like a hal sensor: a bad idea due to the negative stigma attached with pots. There are rock solid ways to use pots and not have any tracking issues, particularly when you're converting the pot signal to digital before sending it to the computer (like you do with USB), but it probably would have been a good idea to up the price and nix the pots completely just as a marketing point.
-
rabidrabbit...
thats the setup i use, a CH stick and pedals, and an x45 throttle. yes i still have the whole x45 plugged in, but keep the stick off to the back of the desk.
the reason i didn't get a CH throttle is the analog trim rotaries are not on the CH.
the throttle of the x45 is sturdy as heck from my experience, and with that setup, i have a spare stick in case something with the CH goes wonky
-
ch is the best so far for dependability. I hate the rudders but am getting used to em... the stick springs are made for tiny little girls... you can make em more for adult males by running 1/4" rubber bands to each of the four points of the axis.
lazs
-
Only Laz2 would/could ascribe sexual orientation to computer game controls.
-
Lazs you hamfisted brute.
-
interesting trick there jb73... I was thinking one or the the but just leaving the x45 stick out sounds like a pretty good idea...
-
X45! Or maybe try the X52.
Buy it from CompUSA, get thier $10 1-year replacment plan. After about 8mo, opr whyen the joystick loses it's feel, take it back, throw down another $10, get a new joystick. Rinse, repeat.
-
suave... whatcha mean?
if it was in spanish it would be "La joystick" when describeing CH joysticks... You have to have exceptionaly weak wrists to find CH springs acceptable.
or... fly luftwhiner planes.. (excuse me if that seems a triffle redundant)
lazs
-
Originally posted by Suave
As the pirate flag dude pointed out, he's one of the hardcore because he still uses his.
And I will use it until I find something that I like better. Right now I don't see any reason to switch to CH. I have tried every piece that they have ever put in the market and can't stand the way they feel. Personal Preference. I did have an F-16 FLCS,TQS,RCS setup and upgraded to the F-22 stick when it was available. Both of them had digital chips in them and were extremely smooth but the F-22 died a bad death moving cross country. The F-16 got lucky since it was in a different box. At that time I went to the CH gear and even bought the USB versions a couple of years ago when I got down on the Cougar.
Now though I am in line to get a Uber2NXT stick mod for the joystick, along with Hall Sensors to replace the pots. I am planning on replacing the throttle pots with hall sensors and am in line to get hall sensors and toe brakes added to my RCS setup as well. Sure I am probably going to spend at least as much as I did in the beginning but I would have gladly spent this total amount then for a 100% product as SOB pointed out rather than doing it piece by piece.
-
Wait, RCS with toe brakes? Is this a kit somewhere, and if so, where?
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
whats with the beefing that ch has a weak throttle setup then? Ie no dials etc... I have to admit I like using the dials especially for rpm.. Thats the reason I was pondering using the x52 throttle with the fighterstick.. the best of both worlds...
Rotary are not needed ,you have more than enought button to map.
I agree it's less intuitive but since I changed from X45 for a full CH setup I've nothing to say negative about CH (for saitek it's another story)
-
Originally posted by Suave
Cougar Hotass was the WWII Online of computer game flight controllers. Dmdmax and Hristo hit the nail on the head with their amazon.com reviews.
I also notice that a lot of players here that gave the cougar a lot of praise when it first came out don't use it anymore.
As the pirate flag dude pointed out, he's one of the hardcore because he still uses his.
Well, it's true that for the price more quality material (especially pots) had to be expected, BUT
- Foxy Software ist just as good as it gets when coming to programable game devices
- the metal finish gives it a little special something
- the modding community spilled forward some unbelievable custom made parts
I just received my UberCougar Mark II - just have to put it together. New custom designed and made gimbals for zero center play, absolut precision and little wear. Hall sensor instead of electronic pots means even more precision with no wear at all! Ok, cost me more than a new Cougar, but wth - we built cockpits in our living room!
I'd go Cougar all the way.
p.s.: My Saitek X36 lived no longer than 6 months.
-
anything except any Saitek Product.
-
Originally posted by Kirin
Well, it's true that for the price more quality material (especially pots) had to be expected, BUT
- Foxy Software ist just as good as it gets when coming to programable game devices
- the metal finish gives it a little special something
- the modding community spilled forward some unbelievable custom made parts
I just received my UberCougar Mark II - just have to put it together. New custom designed and made gimbals for zero center play, absolut precision and little wear. Hall sensor instead of electronic pots means even more precision with no wear at all! Ok, cost me more than a new Cougar, but wth - we built cockpits in our living room!
I'd go Cougar all the way.
p.s.: My Saitek X36 lived no longer than 6 months.
Hi Kirin!!
You got a link to this setup? Intrested to see whats involved for the mods...
Thanks
-
I don't know if there's a web site for it or not, but here's a link to the condensed hardware mod thread on the Cougar Forums...
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35029
IJ has a post on 08/19/04 about the NXT.
-edit- Here's the page with installation instructions:
http://members.optushome.com.au/nxtmanual/HTML/Install%20Manual
-
Whats the best stick/ throttle combo?
Simple answer will only come when you try a few of them . It will be the one you prefer. That will be the best.
CH pedals are awesome. I`ve had the same set now since JC was wearing short pants. The ones I have are analog hooked up to a USB adapter, if that tells you anything.
CH sticks are probably the most touted product when this question is asked, and it`s been asked over and over and over. There is no doubt in my mind that CH sticks out last most anything on the market, but that does not mean they are for everyone. I have a CH stick sitting on the shelf that I view as a rattlesnake.
The weak, limp wristed feel of it reminds me of shaking hands with a flaming studmuffin. Weak, weak weak. Others find them the shiznits.
The same thing always arises in these posts as it has here. (You can do a search and find out how many times I have went over the same thing)
Someone , or multiple someones always advises you to go to CompUSA, PCsRus, Ripoffputers or some such and to pay them the $10, $15, $20 or whatever to get the in- store warranty so that you may go back in case of a problem and get a replacement.
I got a better idea. Just send me the money if you have a tendency to bend over every time the wind changes.
I have used Saitek sticks for a long time. I have never paid an in- store warranty fee.
On a couple of occasions I have had problems with my Saitek X45s, etc.
I have simply sent an e-mail to Saitek, told them of the problem I was experiencing and told them I didn`t want to be withoout my stick while I shipped it to them, then waited for a replacement or to get mine repaired. I have asked that a replacement stick be shipped to me and upon receiving it I would ship the the faulty stick back.
Never had a problem with this from the folks at Saitek.
-
I have an X52. I've used Saitek HOTAS since the X36 and other than that was a Cyborg Evo (a great stick too) and a Logitech Wingman. For full on throttle and stick control, go for the full CH if you have the cash. The x52 is great for the money, I love it to death and it feels like a huge investment over the HUGE X45. I have somewhat small hands and plus the way the buttons were situated made me mad.
Plus the spring loaded SAFE over the FIRE button really feels great when you're firing missiles!
-
Originally posted by SOB
Wait, RCS with toe brakes? Is this a kit somewhere, and if so, where?
SOB head over to the Cougarworld forums and look for Cubpilot. He is da man when it comes to Hall Sensor mods. Also JconradH (a member of my squadron VF-17) redid his RCS to use regular pots for toe brakes and they seem to work nicely.
-
I have the Cougar Hotas with both Cubpilots Hall sensors and IJ's Uber mod. Its pricey and the sort of thing you only indulge in once but i have no regrets. Its like flying with a new stick and one you know is going to be around for a looong time. Both mod makers do an excellent job.
I collecting Cougar profiles at my email addy Reschke :) Feel free to send yours in.
marktrace@actewagl.net.au
Cheers.
-
jackal... just do the rubber band trick to the CH stick. It will feel just like the best thrustmaster if you use 4 1/4" rubber bands I ran 2 1/2" deck screws right into my desk but you could must use a piece of plywood for a base and screw em into that..
The action is good... the stick is screwed down tight... I know I ain't never gonna get spikes and a got to throw away the 5 or 6 trashed "parts" thrustmasters that were laying around... I have been using the same stick for more than a year... No thustmaster ever made more than six months and I never knew if it was gonna be spikey that day or not.
I break a rubber band or two every month but.. bags of em are cheap and easy.
lazs
-
Laz2 modifies the trigger tension on all of his guns to 9 lbs, anything weaker than 7lbs is just gay.
-
nooo... Not unless you are talking about double action trigger pull.. for the single action pull... I like anywhere from 1 1/2 to 4 lbs but more important is that it break clean with no creep.
sooo... you are wrong yet again. And no... I won't date you so that we can "get to know each other a little better".
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
jackal... just do the rubber band trick to the CH stick. It will feel just like the best thrustmaster if you use 4 1/4" rubber bands I ran 2 1/2" deck screws right into my desk but you could must use a piece of plywood for a base and screw em into that..
lazs
:)
I did something similar with a racing wheel one time.
My team was in a 6 week competetion. A couple of hours before race time, the main spring broke on the wheel. I dug around and came up with some rubber tubing. Made a loop and ran it from the wheel to the base on each side. It made the stick react and center better than it ever did when it was new.
-
Originally posted by Reschke
SOB head over to the Cougarworld forums and look for Cubpilot. He is da man when it comes to Hall Sensor mods. Also JconradH (a member of my squadron VF-17) redid his RCS to use regular pots for toe brakes and they seem to work nicely.
Heh, I finally hunted that one down last night while I was looking over Cougar World again. From what it looked like, he's ready with the Hall sensor mod, but not yet with the toe brakes...right? It wasn't totally clear for me from reading the thread. Any idea how his mod is going to work, beyond what it says in the thread? There were two types of pedal brackets used on the RCS, a two-piece assembly first, and then later the standard one piece bracket. I've got the old two-piece kind.
-
Originally posted by SOB
I don't know if there's a web site for it or not, but here's a link to the condensed hardware mod thread on the Cougar Forums...
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35029
IJ has a post on 08/19/04 about the NXT.
-edit- Here's the page with installation instructions:
http://members.optushome.com.au/nxtmanual/HTML/Install%20Manual
I can't say this strongly enough... If you are not prepared to do some work on this stick (right out of the box) you will never be happy with it. Personally... you'll have to pry mine from my cold dead fingers. Read everything on this page (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php) if you think a Cougar is for you.
I purchased a nearly new (un-moded) Cougar HOTAS set on E-bay over 2 1/2 years ago. Before I did anything else I took it apart and performed the following mods:
Speed Brake (T9/T10) alignment (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php#speedbrake)
Throttle detent (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php#detents)
Deletion of the spring play (important: after installing F22 springs) (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php#spring)
Rotating the joystick hats for increased realism (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php#hats)
Sock alternative to the rubber boot (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php#rubber)
These mods only took me about five hours to do. I was all set up (parts, tools and equipment) to go to work as soon as it arrived and I haven't opened it up since.
Finally, to keep her warm at night I also got some of these (in black of course): Covering your Cougar (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php#cover)
On my to-do list:
Trigger mod (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php#trigger) (Need parts)
Making the Cougar throttle smoother (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php#smooth) (I'm about half way through this one)
On my wish list:
Hal sensors, Evenstrain light gimbals, and the speedbrake and dogfight castings.
Regards,
-
I love my X52 (http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/x52.htm)
-
I use CH pro Flight stick, Ch prp pedals, x45 throttle.
The flight stick is absolutely great, and if you get nose bounce while using it, its comming from your arm and not the stick. The stick is completely smooth in all band areas. Before CH I used the x45 stick, but it was unreliable around the center because it was sticky there (and while wax paper helped, it didn't eliminate the stickiness).
-
See below
-
(http://FilthysForum.homestead.com/files/x52junk2.jpg)
-
Looks like someone wasn't smart enough to make it through the users guide.
-
ROFLMAO
Filth, does Pizza guy use that stick?
-
Of course he does!
Martlet..yes Im dumping on your stick and hope that your users guide may prolong the life of your beloved joystick.
-
Lol FiLtH..That was funny..Reminded me of my experience with Logitech's line of worthless joysticks:mad:
-
Hehee
Fanatic Cougar owners are like those Massey Davidson... Eh, Harley Ferguson owners. They keep telling to everybody how über cool and how “REAL MAN” they are with their toys. Continuous repairing is needed to keep that thing running but it is important part of their life-style…
”I use &%#%%/& stiff springs in my Cougar! I R BAD!!! %&%¤#& those plastic &%¤%#!!!”
J/k
CH-Products will be my next HOTAS after my well-served Saitek X36usb.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
Have an old analog/serial CH suite, stick, pedals & throttle. Was good 'back in the day' but when the new usb/digital setups came out the speed and precison difference was very noticeable.
I was very happy with the CH gear.. only gripe is to re-buy it all digital costs more than I'm willing to spend.
I
No need to replace your analog CH stuff with the USB stuff. I only use my Fighterstick USB and Throttle because my analog CH Stick got smashed during a move to a new house but I still use the Analog pedals via a Radio Shack Game Port to USB Adapter part # 26-164. I've used it several years without a problem.
All the Best...
Jay
awDOC1
-
Originally posted by FiLtH
Of course he does!
Martlet..yes Im dumping on your stick and hope that your users guide may prolong the life of your beloved joystick.
It doesn't bother me that you dump on it. I've had it almost a year now and it's still the best stick I've owned.
-
Hm.......don't recall anyone designing mods for Ch Gear. It works out of the box. Tells you something about quality.
To each his own. But for the many years of flight simming I've used all the sticks. Nothing is comparable to Ch. More money with initial investment. Less money in the long run. It's lifespan is measured in years.
My fav is the F16 Combatstick (568 USB) also have the ch throttle and Pro Pedals. As PC Gaming Magazine once said about Ch.
"It just feels right."
-
Yeah, definitely to each his own. I can't even imagine having to use a CH setup. All floppy and loosey goosey, no arc to the throttle, buttons don't have enough give, rudder pedals waaaay too close together. They all look nice in terms of their manufacture, but I'm not crazy about the design either. But that's definitely all subjective.
-
Yeah, SOBs a fan of the stiff, rigid, and sturdy rods that he can really jerk around.
-SW
-
Now you're just getting me excited!
-
Originally posted by SOB
Heh, I finally hunted that one down last night while I was looking over Cougar World again. From what it looked like, he's ready with the Hall sensor mod, but not yet with the toe brakes...right? It wasn't totally clear for me from reading the thread. Any idea how his mod is going to work, beyond what it says in the thread? There were two types of pedal brackets used on the RCS, a two-piece assembly first, and then later the standard one piece bracket. I've got the old two-piece kind.
I haven't the slightest clue how his mod is going to work. I know he has had to get new cables ordered for it and has had some brackets designed. My thoughts are that if you add those in you will be adding two more axis' to the listing of what you can do. I know they will register with the Foxy software and CCP. Also I know JconradH modded toe brakes just work. Apparently they worked good because he was not complaining about them.
For you CH boys; I'm glad that you like your flat throttle positions, weak joystick springs and other items. I don't like them at all and have always personally preferred my TM gear.