Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SFRT - Frenchy on September 11, 2001, 11:18:00 AM
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It's easy to say : We are the strongest nation in the world, let's nuke them. It's definitly easy to want to do it (FScott comes to mind).
First of all, if you nuke a region, or kill a leader, you solve 1 part of the problem. The more you act with violence, the more you fuel violence. Look at the Nazis during WW2. They came in a neighborhood village and executed more than alf of the population, about 2000 people. They did that to retaliate from our local resistance actions there. Did that stoped the local resistance? Off course not, worse than this, it fueled their revenge... not only theirs but all the neighborhood lacal resistance too.
As far as wacking the leaders... Why Kadafi, Yasser Arrafat, Saddam are still alive? If you kill them you make a martyr, the whole country from the dedicated terrorist to the local mother will want revenge.
Also, from my days in the Intelligence, and the part usually people hate to listen : We comunicate with them. We know who they are, what they do, and by "negociating" with them we keep all their army under control... (till the Intell misjudge like today). If you kill a leader, a new one arises right away, a new one where you know very little on his habits, desires, capabilities, limits.
A new one who's less "controlable".
Terrorist groups are either under-estimated or over-estimated. What does it take to fly a 767 in a tower? Eck, even a 10 year old can log a couple of 767s hours in MSFS, learn about the FMSs to hit the "direct" button. the 767s, 757s series were described as very complexly automated, we pilot knows that those glass cockpits are there to be easier to read than all the analog guages and the FMS are "click and go".
That's a bit off subject :o
What is the best way to hit terrorists? I'm not a terrorisum expert, and it's not "so simple". I think that financial is one, who finances those guys? How can you "deal" with people who finance them? Put economical pressure on them, to discipline them or shut them off. People who join the organizations, how can it be prevented, controled? In France, it usually go like this : they drive white Mercedes, and cruise the poor neighborhood. They gather bored 18 year olds and start to contact them during parties and social reunions. Like drug dealers. They show all the whealth they have and say :" look what my group did for me". Then they reward the target with a better life style and start to educate them. the more they are whilling to be educated, the more they earn.
And I mean real education like college, not "this is how you kill". Added to that, they off course add the group personal ideology. At the end, you have an educated, endoctrined potential terrorist.
What always makes me freack out, is that they make sense. Don't think that those people go die in suicide attack because they are too stupid to see "the truth". The group vision of our society is as valid of our vision of theirs.
Bottom line, "nuke those motherF" is probably not the best thing to do. Off course, to comfort and satisfy the public opinion, some poor guys in the middle of the desert more or less related with international terrorisum will be blasted... So the world will be able to sleep well and say :"Yeah, we are the best nation in the world, don't piss us off little toejam".
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:( that very bad what hapaned, but is the quiestion whta a hell doing NSA CIA and other services ? first time at 1997 some philipine terorist group haz similar planes they was thx to god eliminated, after if the guity on thta atack are religios groupes, are you know who finance them ? is it paradoxal !
cut the terorist resources !!!! cut them on short othervise only genocide will stop them
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Early American history: we didn't let anyone get away with anything.. 'Walk softly but carry a big stick'. it worked.
Recent American history: negoitate, go easy, forgive and foget, etc etc..
result: more terrosim and viloent crime.
When are we as Americans going to take back our country !?
consequence is the best teacher.
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WlfGng... example and dates?
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Neither, the CIA nor NSA is equipped to deal with this sort of thing (given that this is not an attack sponsored by some extant Government). It is highly premature to point out blame, or fault, at anyone.
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Frenchy... this isnt a normal terrorist attack. Your prob looking at easily over 5000+ people dead. This is on a scale of Pearl Harbor or worse. This IS an act of war. The indiv's who did this can NOT be bargined with. They have forced us in to cornor now we must strike back.
Like I said in my post in the OC...they royaly diddlyed themselves and every other terrorist organization out there. They have given us the focus we lost after the cold war. We have a foe to fight... the Intel community and Miltary will get thier toys now... we're in anthor war again, maybe not so cold this time ethier.
xBAT
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dates: WWII - after Pearl Harbor.
The attitude of the country was different. We, as a country, stuck up for each other.
Criminal justice was just that.. just. Today it's more a scenario where the criminal uses the system to his own ends instead of protecting the vicitm.
America as a whole is in the same state as the legal system.
Although I detest 'witch hunts', I feel that the present state of low or no viliglance is naive and dangerous.
The country is wide open for terrorist attack.
How often have you really been checked when boarding and aircraft?
Do you really know who else is on the flight, or car, or train etc...
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Amen Frenchy and Voss :)
S!
Rocket
:)
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the sleeping Giant may have awakened....
United States of America.
I'll have to add that I agree and hope that the country doesn't give in to the 'witch hunt' mentality.
If we can prove responsibility then all bets are off.. punish them !
something appropriate for all the innocent lives lost and affected.
[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Wlfgng ]
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WlfGng, WW2 is your only example? Because it was totaly different, it was a country who attacked, not an organization which is still unknown now. can you condam the country who "host" the organization to total war?
let say that the KKK is bombing Tien Amen square and kills 3000 people with a portable nuke devise. So it's ok for China to launch a couple of Nuclear missiles toward USA?
As far as the security, FYI, we received in our airports a note telling the security was reinforced for 3 weeks now. We each (flying and ground personel, shop attendants, customr service) received a training. Airports and airlines are doing their best. Knowing who's on the flight, how he came there, what is his back ground is possible. But you will eart yourself to a huge price increase in the plane ticket. Probably even more flight delays and worse public opinion.
How often I eard travellers (mostly Americans in the US) complaining about Big Brother.
WlfGng, the purpose of my thread was to try to demonstrate that extremist solutions are easy to pop out of the mouth of angry people, but the feasibility is something else.
Batdog, I have to agree. The young generation concerns are definitly if the car they got for their 16th birthday is cool enought and this SOB teacher didn't want to let him enter the class because he was 45min late. Eck! In North Korea, they have a 8 year mandatory TOD this the military. Too much "easy life" made people lost foccus. I was squeaking of the lack of value/honor/responsability of French... when I arrived in Florida and I saw all those fat people squeaking about the AC too hot in the supermarket, or being out of notfatfreegoatmilkstrawberyfl avored, or having to wait 5 minutes at the bank standing up... WOW! Things our ancester fought for to give us a better life style have been forgotten.
Those things are normal to us now, and it's sad that only terrorist attacks and wars refresh our memories.
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No it's not the only example. I don't feel like doing the research.
Besides, it's a moot point.
We, as a nation, have been attacked and I tire of this 'open arms' crap.
The real world, as witnessed today, has intruded upon our complacency as a nation.
It's time to wake up and become aware.
The present state of airport security is a joke.
You can't expect Airlines to provide only security. If you land at a 'foriegn' airport you will notice the greatly increased security compared to the U.S.
As shown by today's acts.. the present security is NOT ENOUGH!
I agree that a whole country isn't to blame.. extremists are usualy renegade types.
I'm not saying we should punish a whole country.. but instead, find out the organizations involved and punish them!
Increased vigilance, and appropriate consequences!
I'm sure people will whine about how inconvenient security is. etc etc.
The alternative is worse...
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I believe that any country that has "harboured" these criminals should be required to "spend" the resources to apprehend these people and turn them over to us for "justice". We are not alone in this every "freedom" loving country should be outraged and willing to bring these criminals to justice, LET THEM HAVE NO PLACE ON THE PLANET TO HIDE.
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I'll go along with that BigJim, but only after it's been proven that the G'ment is helping the group hide from us. That should be considered an act of war. Dinnae someone say in another thread that Afghanistan is awfully nervous right now, and that Laden has been hiding in Afghanistan? If that's where he is I say the Afghan's either help us nail him (if he's the culprit) or we nail them for hiding the bastard. And, of course, nail the bastard to the wall at the same time.
But let's find out for sure who our target is before we start issuing frag orders. Enough innocents have died already.
On a side note, any group that has the cojones to claim responsibility needs to feel the wrath of the US. If they want to take the credit with all the people who hate the US, they should face the consquences as well. Each group that claims responsibility gets it. Period.
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evil begets evil
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justice is evil ??
NOT
This is evil in the form of unprecedented cowardly attacks on innocent civillians.
bringing them to justice is NOT evil.
IMO letting them 'go' so they can cause more death would be the greater evil.
Sometimes life is difficult and there are no easy answers. this is one of those times.
[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Wlfgng ]
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Frenchy,
Here's where you an I part on opinions. This is an act of war, it is worse than Pearl Harbor. It is my opinion that FDR knew of the immenent attack on Pearl and let it occur because WW2 was a conflict that the US had to enter in order to bring our full force (military and civilian) against the Axis. The "isolationist/liberals" did a fine job of almost letting Hitler dine with the Queen Mother for tea.
Our entire industrial complex rose to supply our military with the tools to do the job. This is an act which deserves a similar response. The organizations responsible will be known, if they aren't already.
We are not goin to attack some poor raghead who happenes to look like a good target that will make us feel good for killing "something" as payback.
This will be a co-ordinated response to finally "deal" with the terrorist problem. Already Hamas and the Islamic Jihad has claimed "no responsibility" They know that this act will impact on them negatively. This is one of those moments that brings the US together and we will work with our Allies to rid everyone of this ongoing pest.
As far as the "Martyr" concept goes... it is a failed policy which we have been following and it's time to deal with this problem realistically.
With respect, your freind
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All we can be sure of at this time is that tomorrow morning, our children will awaken to in a different America.
To compare this event to the 1941 attack upon Pearl Harbor would be incorrect. This attack has no decleration of war assoiated with it, no goal of destorying military assets, and no strategy for the prolonged wageing of a war.
Moreover, There is no Government or landed country behind these actions. No face of the enemy, as it were, for us to declare a war upon. In point, this was not a military action.
Durring my time in the US Army, I served as a Combat Engineer and worked extensively with land mines. The main theroy behind the use of mines and booby-traps is not to kill or injure the enemy. The psycological effects of having your squadmates killed by a faceless, unknown enemy, that cannot be targeted by your rage, is far more effective in defeating you than simply killing you.
Henceforth the title Terrorism.
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Flying Mongrels Home (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
"Destined to replace the mudshark in popular mythology"
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I disagree.
This is an act of war on America. It's military in nature... but uses terrorism as it's vehicle... but it's an attack just the same.
In fact it's worse.
Using innocent civillians as a weapon against innocent civillians is horrid.
We, as a nation, should be outraged!!!
It's the 'be nice to everyone' naivety (sp) that has allowed this to happen.
Our own complacency now comes back to haunt us.
I respect many peoples and countries but not naievly. I demand that 'friends' prove themselves to be friends. I don't think the country should blindly 'trust' everyone that shows up on our doorsteps.
[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Wlfgng ]
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these days, suicide terrorist attacks are more of rutine than exeption in my country.
infact, we had 3 of them yesterday, and we avrage one every other day (succesfull or a failed attempt).
my silly goverment had already tried just about every option suggested in this forum, exept for nukes.
where had it brought us?
we are now condamed by the rest of the world, leaders threatened to be trialed as war criminals, and public safty is worse than ever.
you can't fight terrorizm directly.
the only way to beat terorizm is by patience, persistance, and staburness. take a blow and stay on your feet. do not play their game. do not loose morality.
It takes time, it's unpleasant, it might get you or your loved ones. but ther's no other way.
america has nothing to fear. no terrorist attack, even the biggest one in history, can bring it down.
STAND TALL, Laugh back!
keep cool.
the world might have been a much nicer place if we could respawn in the tower.
Bozon
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Bozon, I must say this:
"Salute!"
Reading this words by an Israel man, raise my hopes for a fair and paceful solution of many problems in the world.
<S!> again.
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Fair and peacefull? I can only dream of that.
However, your words are wise Bozon.
Stand tall,
take a stand and stick by it,
don't give in to terrorism.
Carry on as best possible while aiding war against terrorism . Information and vigilance.
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Wlfgng, as I said is just an hope, but dont permit them to kill our hopes.
Not in the amount of Israel, but we in Italy had our ration of terrorism, by italians, against italians.
Revenge is'nt the best option, make things worse.
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Frenchy if the US goverment knows about the KKK attacks on China then by all means China would have the right to launch a weapon of appropriate size and type to prevent this group from continuing its attacks. IMO of course.
BTW why are humans such efficient killers, why do we simulate combat when were not engaged in real combat, humans were designed to kill, we are killers (as you must realise if you've be watching the news lately) during this latter part of the century we tend to pretend that we are civilised (not murderers) but this is untrue. We kill for sport, for personal gain, for political reasons and some for fun even. I say lets continue this grand tradition but lets kill the bin lardasses and the saddam insanes rather then the lil footslogger guy that'd rather be at home with the family.
USA - break out the tomahawks!!!!!!!!!!
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Brute force may not be the answer. However, I think I can safely say that to most people it is very satisfying. I have no qualms saying that we should find whoever is responsible and terminate them in a fast, deliberate manner. Do I think we should nuke anyone? No, but a strong and forceful retaliation for this is the first step to keeping this from happening again. It may be naive to say that, and I am sure it is. However, we need to show that acts such as this will NOT be tolerated.
I do think that many of the posts saying we should nuke "them" are a response to our frustration. I would be surprised if anyone, deep down, truly believed that we should nuke whoever it is. Also, I think nuke is being used as a generic term for "bombing them so far back they have to reinvent the wheel" instead of the use of nuclear weapons. I may be wrong concerning a few people, but I believe that is what a majority of those posting such things really mean.
May all terrorists know that their days of sleeping at night without worry that they will be hunted down are numbered.
-math
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Frenchy,
I don't have time to read all this very carefully; but even so, I'm not clear what you are trying to say. I agree that mass genocide is not the answer. However, I am in support of a military reaction and am very willing to take my chances on who will take the place of those responsible. Who knows, it may actually be someone of reason and that is indeed a possibility. It's a gamble, but our gamble on keeping tabs and direct dialogue with these types came up bust today. I publicly support a military reaction against those who are responsible for this and those who harbor this group. If we conclude who is responsible and the country he is residing does not hand him/them over, then I take that as support and direct participation in the act of war on me and my country. It is war, do not mistake it even if the battles are quick but spaced apart in large amounts of time aka USS Cole, Embassy bombings, etc.. Communication has now failed us and it's a very sad fact of life but there are times when you need to meet force with force.
I'm suspect of your intelligence background and suspect you are speaking a little bit out of the bounds of your background unless your bringing that up was not meant to make me take stock in your opinions of this a bit more. And I disagree, Sadam will be no more a martyr of his country than Stalin or Hitler and many, many others. Even so, a martyr poses no direct threat to me and so I don't mind a martyr. I do mind a threat to my lifestyle and sovereignty and am prepared
Your suggestion for rewarding these people with education seems ludicrous. We are just darn lucky these people did not have any nuclear weapons. If you don't think they wouldn't use them, look at today's events to see how far they will go to conduct genocide against my USA.
Seek and destroy and do not show any leniency.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
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Taking in Zygote's scenario:
KKK attacks China, China decides to take military action. Then the KKK retreats back to America and as MOST un-lawful groups do, they dissolve into public background.
China wants them turned over. US answers "We feel sorry, we do not in anyway agree to this sort of action. We will do best to apprehend them OURSELVES and turn them over to you". Can the US government apprehend the scoundrels? Will[/i] the US government do so? China's not so sure. US and China aren't exactly 'close friends'.
Why, I'm sure Americans will be EXTREMELY amused when China declares war on US - "You shouldn't harbor terrorists". They decide to use direct military force despite the KKK scoundrels are within boundaries of US jurisdiction. Of course, this, no doubt is illegal. I'm very convinced such action will be criticized by every type of politicians, scholars, critics out there. Nobody can justify China in this course of action.
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If it were the case of Middle East and US, as it looks like it would soon be, can US be justified when China in the imaginary scenario cannot?
I have lived in the states, I've been at most places that went down, I spent my whole young life there. America is like a second home to me, too. I sympathize, and despite that i'm an atheist, I still had to pray for the unfortunate, despite I didn't even know WHO I was praying to. It seems we lost some of our own business men in WTC, too.
But direct use of force, the "justice" you people are so sure of, can open new tragedies. Some might say "Its an acceptable risk". Pity. The moment other lives become 'acceptable risk', there is nothing which America can say that is different from the terrorist.
I sincerely hope America, despite wounds and deep sorrow, indeed show to the world that they can match what the highest ideals of their country stand for... and put a leash on all those oaths of "Vengeance" and "Blood".
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Kweassa,
Not you again. Let's walk away from hypothetical scenarious including this KKK and China one because it's really a very dumb one. For one thing, we here are not dealing with an isolated incident. I'm all for finding the right group, though evidence is mounting against a certain group who has for years openly claimed a goal to kill Americans. I'm of the opinion we need more time to come to a conclusion. But how many embassies, jetliners, ships and centers of commerce have the KKK destroyed in China and years of threats against the sovereignty of China and its people in your example? The USA most certainly would investigate and would not allow any such group to simply dissolve back into society. The USA has extradited many people even for such things so minor as the murder of one single, solitary person. So this scenario spoken of is pretty stupid. Shoot, why not just let terrorists tie all those passengers to the front of the airliner before crashing it into the Western world's economic center and really let them have fun? These people will DIE to kill Americans and so I opt as one course of avenue to let them die BEFORE they kill Americans if we cannot apprehend them by normal means.
I support the action to seek out the criminals who wage war on me and my country. I support our country in treating any group or nation who harbors and does not produce for trial those responsible and treating that soveriegnty as waging war on my country too and subject to the appropriate responses. If we discover who is responsible for this private act of war and the soveriegnty they preside in does assist in recourse, then all is well. You should have no fear.
And name this American ideal. "Speak softly yet carry a big stick"? "Don't tread on me"? "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee"?
Here's a hypothetical scenario... we do nothing. When does it stop? It didn't after the USS Cole, etc, etc, etc. Does it stop after they lob a few nuclear weapons?
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
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Bush said in his address "We will make no distinctions between those who COMMIT these acts, and those who HARBOR them". To me, that is the best phrase to use. The Afghans need to realize that harboring Bin Laden was the worst mistake they could have made. Hopefully, we will hit them so hard they will WISH the Soviets had won the war and absorbed their country.
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You know, that's pretty much the TYPICAL reaction to these sorts of terrorism over all these years.
"Make no distinction."
Open testimony towards war. Any sort of threat to "America", whether is is of most base terrorism, or just a small country wanting independence etc etc.. its met with brute force.
Yes, this time, there is no other way but to say the US, deserves sympathy. But what of times before? What of future incidences? Why DO people target the US? Do Americans look ugly?
I remember, Puke, when you said "people of those countries should not let a government which harbors terrorism stand". Yes, I agree, it is very true.
And as much, the people of your country maybe should rethink of the US politics, and the government which harbors diplomatical/international policies that inevitably brings all sorts of bloodshed.
In the end, who empowered the so called dictators of the middle east in the firt place? Who keep butting into places where they shouldn't be? Who funded Afghanistani rebels in cold war?
'Boomerang' comes to mind.
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Kweassa,
You have an agenda..
My thoughts on you posts and opinions...
(http://www.applink.net/thunder/spoof/results.jpg)
[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Thunder ]
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Kweasa,
<<<Any sort of threat to "America", whether is is of most base terrorism, or just a small country wanting independence etc etc.. its met with brute force.>>>
Name one country.
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Kweassa, the fools want a holy war, let the Americans give em one. I was sickened yesterday by what I saw, did you see the aircraft fly into that building, do you realise just before impact there was a little 2 year old girl in one of those airplanes? Americans need blood, I personally here in Australia, would gratefully enlist for the opportunity to spill some of theirs. That little girl needs to be avenged and so do the rest of the people whoes lives were stolen from them yesterday. F@ck the experts, the bleeding heart so-called educated minority, their opinions mean nothing, I think the majority of the world wants blood which is a normal and healthy human reaction. Lets find those responsible and spill it.
And the china - KKK example directly parrallels what is ocurring in real life. If indeed Osama Bin Lardass is responsible, then so is the Taliban who are protecting him and more than likely providing assistance, they drew first blood, time for America to drink its fill.
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Your right thou in some respects Kweassa, America is not perfect, some of their policies / agenda's are outrageous (using small third world country's to test weapons, drug trading in El Salvador etc) but these things are not done by or even sanctioned by the public, most respects congress and the public are hidden from these things. The attack yesterday was timed and planned to cause the most number of civilian casualties as well as to hit at the heart of the economic and military power in the US. The killing of civilians can never be excused or justified.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
WlfGng... example and dates?
What the hell happened to the guys who bombed USS Cole, embassies, bases in the last couple of years?
A couple of trigger-men were apprehended. No one responcible was even mentioned.
miko
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It was not just the U.S.A that lost people although we lost the most.Canada,Mexico,England,Italy,France,Germany,Japan,Australia and S.Korea lost people in this vicious attack too.The terrorists will go anywhere to kill innocent people even if they die doing it.We need a dedicated International force to seek out and eliminate terrorists where ever they are.They should have border crossing permission from every civilized country in the world.All countries that want to harbor the terrorists should be notified that the forces will go anyway and efforts to stop it will be dealt with.The rules of engagement should be,bring them back,dead or alive.The terrorists are not playing patty cake and have no rules or regard for human life and we have far too many that hamper us.This will not make it go away but make the price so high that some of them may have second thoughts.You can not deal in a civilized manner with mad animals.You have to eliminate them.Far too many innocent men,women and children have died in the last twenty years to let this go on any longer.
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Bozon, I HIGHLY disagree with your statement that to way to beat terrorism is to essentially do nothing. Sorry but your country is not like that and I can guarentee you that the USA is not like that. We are all going to war and it's going to get ugly before it gets better. We all need to deal with it. There will be colateral damage, but that is an unfortunate side effect of war. If it is proven that a country harbors a terrorist or his group, or gives them help in anyway they are going to feel the wrath of the US. Right now Americans are glad to hear the kind words of support for us during this attack, but I belive those same countries will run for cover and denounce us once we start shooting. And be certain we will start shooting, and with a big gun. The world can suck it up and come with us after these sub-human bastards or they can watch from the sidelines. At this point the majority of Americans really don't care. We are use to bailing out countries after they get whipped, and having them do nothing but mock us for it.
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Sometimes... sometimes brute force IS the answer.
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Sometimes... sometimes brute force IS the answer.
-- Todd/DMF
We are in a horrible, completely unenviable position now. In order to fight this war, because of the nature of our targets, civilians (innocents) are going to die.
The US military is (I believe) the smartest and best war-fighting machine in the world. I'm willing to bet that over the next few days, weeks, years a HELL of a lot of force is going to be used, but it will be deliberate and judicious force, not "brute".
I hope to God that our intelligence organizations and allies pull this off with the least amount of needless bloodshed possible. Eventhough this is a new kind of warfare, war has always been nasty and brutal.
Good luck to the US armed forces and its allies. Praying for ya.
Ely
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Jase - part of the reason America and the rest of the world is so shocked by the event just past is because up until now people thought like you do. The US is impervious, untouchable, the best. That kind of thinking got your fellow countrymen killed last week. The US is as vulnerable if not more so, due to the the reason already stated, as other countries of similiar development around the world. You will win because you have the backing and support of the majority of the most powerful countries in the world. Not because you are the most powerful country in the world. Afganistan is a hard nut to crack, as was Vietnam, Korea, and Japan.
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BTW it won't be "collataral damage", it'll be dead innocent civilians, dead Americans, Britons, Australians and others and dead Afghans. Dead People not "collateral damage". If ya gonna kill people, admit it, don't mince words. Don't get me wrong thou, I support the coming conflict.
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I got two words for you kweassa....diddly off!!
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Never have I said, nor thought that the US was impervious or untouchable. Not sure where you got that from. I have felt exactly the opposite for a long time, that we as a country have been way to weak with these terrorist scum. The core of everything I have said is this:
1.) Americans will push back, big time when pushed to far.
2.) Americans are pissed right now...just watch the news
3.) and Lastly, Although we would like the rest of the world to participate in defending freedom in the upcoming war, we are under no illusions that most countries of the world will not. For whatever reason they don't have the stomach for it. There are a few countries that have stood by us over time...Canada, England...and several others (no disrespect to those I have not mentioned). But the fact is if you look at history MANY countries where just fine with sitting on the sidelines against Germany/Japan/Italy. That or either they just got plain stomped by them. These same countries we have saved over and over again have made a national passtime out of anti-American sentiment over recent years. Like I said before, these countries can get on board or get the hell out of the way.
p.s. Yesterday England played our national anthem at the changing of their guard. It was very moving. Salute to our brothers and sisters there, and thanks.
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[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: Jase ]
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Kweassa, plz go back to your 'first' home you leech. Now I remember one of the biggest reasons I renounced my French citizenship to become an American, 98.9% of the population of France think like Frenchy.
As for the Tianimen square hypothetical nuclear bombing, yes Frenchy I would expect China to plop a few nukes onto American interests or the country itself, especially since in that situation we were stupid enough to let a terrorist org operate within our borders. Bush is declaring war on ALL terrorists, this can be historic not only for the USA but everyother country that wishes to join in the coming coalition, imagine terrorists operating in the USA or ANY other country now not having the backing or facilities to train and operate out of. Bozon, maybe your wussified country has taken to many blows that it has forgotten how to fight since obviously your analysis makes it apparent your are boxer punch drunk.
[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: oki ]