Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Kweassa on July 01, 2005, 02:35:29 PM
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Anybody wanna post its specs? I'm quite unfamiliar with it...
How'd it handle compared to our D-40? Faster than the D-40? Climbs better? Longer range??
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"... better roll performance than the D model. ... In mock combat with a P-47D-25-RE, the new fighter proved to be notably superior in every category of performance. "
"Scorching along at 467 mph @ 32,000 ft., the N could not be caught by any fighter in regular service with any air force on earth with the single exception of its M model sibling. This combination of wing and engine had pushed the N model up to the top rank of the superlative prop driven fighters then in existence."
and it had phenominal range. More than the P-38 with full drop tanks. It did a lot of escorting of B-29's over Japan.
Er, thanks to Mr Body and CC Jordan of course.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Anybody wanna post its specs? I'm quite unfamiliar with it...
How'd it handle compared to our D-40? Faster than the D-40? Climbs better? Longer range??
..... 8 50's ??
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Yes 8 50s
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You will be amazed.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_13.html
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My kinda plane... lotsa guns & lotsa speed :D
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P-47 Thunderbolt: Aviation Darwinism (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic8.html)
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With that much speed it is nigh certain to be perked, probably in Spit XIV/F4U-4 price ranges.
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I rtied to google P47N things and found this cool pic of P47 taking of from carrier.
(http://www.web-birds.com/7th/318/P-47D%20318th%20FG%201944.jpg)
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OK then, one could say that since the TA152 is perked then the P47-N will be perked. The P47-N is faster at altitude and I'll bet it handles better down low. Here's hoping it'll get a minimal perk cost if at all - say 15 points?
Why is the TA152 perked again (he said sarcastically)?
Thoughts?
I personally can't wait to roll a "N" with just the 6 50 cals, 50% petrol, and a drop tank.
Magoo
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P47 pilots need a "top of the line" jug not perked, like Fws have D9s, LA got La7s, 109s got K4 (G10).:D But then the MA will be swamped with P47Ns HO clone freaks, like every other FW is a D9.:(
~1700 produced ... KABAM! homie.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
P47 pilots need a "top of the line" jug not perked, like Fws have D9s, LA got La7s, 109s got K4 (G10).:D But then the MA will be swamped with P47Ns HO clone freaks, like every other FW is a D9.:(
~1700 produced ... KABAM! homie.
And the Spitfire has.....
That's right, there is no guarantee that you'll have a top end ride free. Be thankful your top end free P-47 is actually from 1944 rather than 1942 as for Spitfire fans.
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Karnak, stop hijacking a P47 thread with a repetitive Spitfire whining, rule #whatever. (Off course the top end non perked jug is from 1944 ... the Jug wasn't even a spermatozoid that the GrandPa-spit was chewing the LW).
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The P-47N is useless for ToD. It only has real potential in the PAC, but the PAC plane set is so full of wholes I doubt (and would hope) that HT doesn't go with some crappy substitute roulette plane set.
The P-47N is completely useless for any WETO set up. You would figure that with all the effort going into coding ToD that some effort would directed toward filling out the plane set for at least one theater/tour.
OH well, I am less interested in ToD with everyone update. I know a few others that feel the same way. It would appear ToD is all hype with out much substance and just slightly more interesting then the CT...
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Maybe the N, will play the substitude role of the M in TOD-ETO?
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Maybe the N, will play the substitude role of the M in TOD-ETO?
Possible, but it isn't a very good match for it in climb/acceleration.
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P47M is essentially a monster engine (R2800-57) and the N type fuselage mated to a 47D wing.
The N has the same monster engine (later versions had the R2800-77), the N fuselage but a vastly wing.
All the figures for the N and M are done with full fuel and ammo. That means the N has the wings full of fuel. If you take the fuel out of the "wet" wings it will be a LOT lighter and should perform closer to that of the M model. And the N with the clipped wing tips would roll even better.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Maybe the N, will play the substitude role of the M in TOD-ETO?
Even an M wouldn't be all that useful...
A C or an Earlier D would have been perfect for an WETO ToD. But so would an FW 190A-3.
Except for the P-38s (which I thought were a great addition for AH even though I would have never of flown one) none of the newer planes since AH2 was released has added anything really useful for ToD.
For the WETO AH has the same tired old match ups that make events and the CT poor.
What you will end up with is the same planes fighting each over a different map. Substitution roulette never quite pulls it off, at least not in events or the CT. If ToD is still planned as some sort of rps or to contain some rps flavor then (at least imho) the wholes in the plane set really take away from that.
You may not want to talk about Spits in this particular thread but as Karnak points out the Spitfire fans are stuck with '42 Spit to cover must of the late war. The P-47N just adds another very late war US plane. It may play well for you guys in the main but I just can't get into the land grab capture flag crap any more. It's too boring.
The thing of it is an earlier Jug would have fit right for ToD...
Either ToD is farther off then we think or out side of the 'code' ToD will be no better then the CT.
Most of the box games have the same type of 'ToD code' (rps, scoring ranking etc...) and have most the planes that make an 'rps' viable.
Anyway enjoy your new plane when you get it. Any 'new plane' is better then nothing...
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Originally posted by Karnak
Possible, but it isn't a very good match for it in climb/acceleration.
People keep forgetting the published weight and climb figures are for the P-47N with full fuel. And this thing carried a crap load of fuel--remember, it outdistances a P-51 in range and its a jug for chrissake. Try and think of how it will perform in MA loadout with 50 or 25% fuel. I'm not expecting 109G10 performance, but it's going to be significantly better than what we have now. Look at the P-47M numbers to get an idea.
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Wotan,
The more things change the more they stay the same....
...........
Cold be someone just liked the darn thing and they added it just because they wanted to. Or some allied fanboy one the lottery and sent HTC a big check:)
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(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Forrest463FS.JPG) (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/PreCradleP-47N.JPG)
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic8.html (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic8.html)
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Who knows?
Maybe we'll still get a very early D or C Jug with the P-47N :)
Let's try to look on the bright side of things, guys :)
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I agree and I disagree with Wotan...
Be nice to have P-47C instead P-47N (It could wait little longer), but again i think it perfect for "What If" for Combat Theater or other special event.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
P47 pilots need a "top of the line" jug not perked, like Fws have D9s, LA got La7s, 109s got K4 (G10).:D But then the MA will be swamped with P47Ns HO clone freaks, like every other FW is a D9.:(
~1700 produced ... KABAM! homie.
tell me truthfully, have you ever taken a 47 into a dogfight and won????? im not talking about B n' Z, im talking about dogfight. the noobs will hate it. i hope that it isnt perked. its essentially a high alt plane anyway, and its so bloody heavy that noone will use it accept the more experienced pilots, with extensive knowledge of energy tactics. take a 47D 40 up in the ma, and try fight in it, then take that outcome and think about doing it in a plane that weighs 33% more, with fuel in the wings aswell???
n will be great plane, and will definitely have a low ENY, but i think thats all it should have. i reckon 47 usage will only be slightly above what it is now
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Thats right, the Jug is a TERRIBLE plane and there is no need for anyone to even try flying the new N model..... ;) Especially YUCCA.
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I think all remodled P-47s speed will be affected when it is loaded with heavy air to ground weapons.
I also think P-47N is with the same class as the Ta-152 in performance
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OK, all you fellows complaining about "why did HTC add a P47N!"
It will be good for the MA - where most players are and more importantly it was an easy add. I mean jeez...they were already re-doing the the damn jug line (and 51, so we might still get an A36 or sumpthin') and you just tweak the art and flight model and badda-bing!
They likely will add new variants with every model makeover from here on out. thats what the new version of AH does for them, it makes that easy. Holy schnitt they already workin on TOD and people *****in about the amazing fact that they add anything (good grief)
Magoo (besides, I wanted the N so I'M happy and that's all that matters)
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Originally posted by Pooface
tell me truthfully, have you ever taken a 47 into a dogfight and won????? im not talking about B n' Z, im talking about dogfight.
Many times.
Best AH news EVAR, my siggy prair has been heard :aok
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Originally posted by Rafe35
I agree and I disagree with Wotan...
Be nice to have P-47C instead P-47N (It could wait little longer), but again i think it perfect for "What If" for Combat Theater or other special event.
The 'what if's' ain't gonna cut it in ToD.
One reason the CT and some of the events don't draw a lot of folks is because its always the same handful of planes but on different map (sometimes same planes, same map just called something different). The 'what ifs' are subjective and vary with the bias of the CM.
I designed, CO'd and participated in many events in AH, I was a CT CM for a time. Most of the 'what ifs' aren't put together because they 'may be interesting'. They are put together because you either go with 'what if' or you do nothing.
OK, all you fellows complaining about "why did HTC add a P47N!"
It will be good for the MA - where most players are and more importantly it was an easy add. I mean jeez...they were already re-doing the the damn jug line (and 51, so we might still get an A36 or sumpthin') and you just tweak the art and flight model and badda-bing!
First who is complaining?
I could careless what plane HT adds or doesn't add to the game. From a practical stand point the P-47N will be as insignificant in the main as any of the other P-47s.
They 'could have just tweaked the art and FM' and come up with a C or earlier D which is needed.
They likely will add new variants with every model makeover from here on out. thats what the new version of AH does for them, it makes that easy. Holy schnitt they already workin on TOD and people *****in about the amazing fact that they add anything (good grief)
It's taken 4+ years to get the planes you have now in AH. The 'they will just add another variant later' isn't how it has worked yet. Given the amount of wholes in the plane set and the amount of work left to get the rest of the aircraft up to AH2 standards it will be a while before the Jugs are revisited.
ToD has been talked about for 2+ years. The plane set and the wholes in it will go a long way in determining how successful it will be.
The P-47N is just another late war US plane. Even in a PAC setup for ToD it isn't needed. All late US planes are already faster then any Japanese plane. Even its extended range isn't even that important because I doubt the missions in ToD will require a full fuel load. Folks in this thread are already talking 25% fuel and a dt etc...
The main in AH is already as good as it will ever get. Another late war US plane hardly adds much to the game.
It maybe a plane you like but be honest, beyond that it doesn't add much to the game, main/ToD/CT/events or otherwise.
As I said ToD is either further away then we think or there's no real plan outside some code tinkering to bring it off.
If ToD is expected to compete for players then substitution roulette won't cut it...
As I said:
Anyway enjoy your new plane when you get it. Any 'new plane' is better then nothing...
If the P-47N is the plane you like then have fun with it. Lets not pretend there is much more to it then that.
tell me truthfully, have you ever taken a 47 into a dogfight and won?????
There were at one time a lot of P-47 guys in AH who would / could mix it up and win. Some of the most fun I have had in AH was against well flown jugs. It had little to do with the plane itself. Frenchy and Nomde ect... kicked serious arse.
I am sure they will do it even better in the N.
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tell me truthfully, have you ever taken a 47 into a dogfight and won?????
yes...and i dont even fly it that often...guys from the 56th who fly it regulary sure can...i know yucca has handed me my arse once or twice.
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Those are good aguments Wotan. However you are seeing the addition through CT and TOD glasses. Nobody flies in the CT much (I have and enjoyed it) and obviously nobody flies in TOD yet, nor Knows exactly what it's going to be.
BTW - It wasn't you who was *****in' about adding the N, Some folks at the beginning of the post were.
I'm willing to bet the N will be very popular in the MA, where most everyone flies - plus everyone loves a hotrod. I'd call it good bang for the buck considering it was an easy add, which I'm sure is their prime motivation. They just throwin the masses some candy cause it's cheap
You won't see any new models till they done with TOD and I'm certain they will fill holes at that time. You do understand the difference between adding new models and new variants of existing planes right?
You may still get your P47C who knows. I will concede that they could have added an early war jug in preparation for TOD. If they just wanted to do one new Jug however, they picked the right one.
respectfully
Magoo
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Originally posted by Pooface
tell me truthfully, have you ever taken a 47 into a dogfight and won????? im not talking about B n' Z, im talking about dogfight.
ROFLMAO :rofl
You are asking Frenchy if he ever dogfought in a jug and won ?!?!
You might be relatively new and don't know the 56th FG. It's a dedicated jug squadron that has been in AH for years and the main activity is air-to-air dogfights.
Bozon
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hi bozon :)
exciting news isnt it?
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Originally posted by Sancho
People keep forgetting the published weight and climb figures are for the P-47N with full fuel. And this thing carried a crap load of fuel--remember, it outdistances a P-51 in range and its a jug for chrissake. Try and think of how it will perform in MA loadout with 50 or 25% fuel. I'm not expecting 109G10 performance, but it's going to be significantly better than what we have now. Look at the P-47M numbers to get an idea.
The monster had almost 100 gallons in each wing (I find various data between 93 to 100 gallons, If anyone can correct me please do). So it's 200 gallons extra to the 370 gallons the D has. Just for comparison, the 100% fuel load of a 109 is 106 gallons ! You can fuel 5 109s with this fuel load with some to spare...
The D40 when at 25% already climbs at ~3500 fpm. With the many extra horses the N will break the 4000 imo. Although a little weight was added, the wing area has also increased (from 300 to 322 sqf) so the wingloading is similar when fuel loads are the same. It will not be a fast plane in AH. The amazing 467 mph is achieved at 37kft. below 10k it will not make 400 mph while many other planes can.
hi bozon
exciting news isnt it?
Yes, too bad I can't run AH now. I'll get a new computer soon... I hope. I will not be able to resist the new jugs :)
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Originally posted by bozon
Yes, too bad I can't run AH now. I'll get a new computer soon... I hope. I will not be able to resist the new jugs :)
Same problem here, my windows box is too old, and my new mac is pretty useless for AH.
Im hoping to be back sometime this fall.
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ALL RIGHT!! now i can fly a plane with the speed of a corsair with the range of a P-38 and the firepower of the good ol jug...hehe "jug"
PS
when can we expect this new aircraft?
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
ALL RIGHT!! now i can fly a plane with the speed of a corsair with the range of a P-38 and the firepower of the good ol jug...hehe "jug"
PS
when can we expect this new aircraft?
I would guess...
2 weeks
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So what we're getting won't be a clipped wing version?
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Originally posted by moot
So what we're getting won't be a clipped wing version?
The N version is "clipped"
As far as i know there is no "unclipped" N
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I wonder if we'll get a neutered version of the N, compared to our expectations, such as what the Ki84 guys got? What I mean is that more than a few folks wanted a speed demon Frank-enstein to compete with the reviled La-7 and I'm seeing some similarities in the anticipation of the N's capabilities. BTW - I'm not saying that the Ki84 isn't a good plane in AH mind you, just not exactly what we thought it might be.
Of course there is probably more data available on the N to make nailing down a flight model easier...
Magoo
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Thanks Nilsen.
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@mipoikel
I doubt that is a N... its got birds cage cockpit...
Tex
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Originally posted by Nilsen
The N version is "clipped"
As far as i know there is no "unclipped" N
"Clipped' is really not accurate as it implies a shorter wing, at least to me.
The N had a larger wing then the previous models. They added an 18 inch stub on each side between the fuselage and wing panels. Each 18" stub carried 100 gallons of additional fuel. The wing area was the largest of any of the jugs. While the wings were then squared off, they were definately not shorter.
Dan/CorkyJr