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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: nirvana on July 01, 2005, 11:13:11 PM

Title: fireworks laws
Post by: nirvana on July 01, 2005, 11:13:11 PM
Coming home after picking up dinner I noticed one of those digital signs it said, "Fireworks illegal-severe penalties-have a safe 4th" yet not more then a mile down the road there was a fireworks tent.  Illegal THROUGHOUT the state of Colorado yet they can sell them.  Does this go along lines of don't blame the guns for killing people, blame the operator?  Don't blame the seller blame the person that lights it?  Seems a tad hypocritical to me, like they are tempting you to buy them and shoot em off to get money from fines.  If I recall last year it was something like $350 fine and maybe jail time.

For what it's worth i'd like to celebrate the 4th as an American with freedom, yet it seems as though a lack of responsibility kills freedom once again.


P.S. Happy Canada Day to those of you up north.

P.P.S  Have a safe 4th.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Toad on July 01, 2005, 11:18:19 PM
Maybe the tent is selling only the legal stuff? And the other stuff to folks with permits?

http://www.usfireworks.biz/legal/co.htm


Quote
COLORADO:

Bottle Rockets:  With Permit Only  
   Sky Rockets:  With Permit Only  
   Roman Candles:  With Permit Only  
   Firecrackers:  With Permit Only  
   Sparklers:  Legally Allowed  
   Smoke and Punk:  Legally Allowed  
   Fountains:  Legally Allowed  
   Missiles:  With Permit Only  
   Novelties:  Legally Allowed  
   Crackle and Strobe:  Legally Allowed  
   Parachutes:  With Permit Only  
   Wheels and Spinners:  Legally Allowed  
   Sky Flyers:  With Permit Only  
   Display Shells:  With Permit Only  
   Aerial Items (Cakes):  With Permit Only  
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 01, 2005, 11:18:33 PM
Yeah, I noticed the same thing here (In pennsylvania).

Last I heard they were illegal.  But everywhere you turn they are being sold.  Not just the puny supermarket stuff either.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: nirvana on July 01, 2005, 11:47:46 PM
OMG THANK YOU TOAD!  I hear that fireworks are illegal in a lot of states, was busted last year for firecrackers, I think some old guy called us in, being under 18 and first time offenders we got off with a verbal warning but it was a close call.  Thanks for the info again Toad.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Toad on July 01, 2005, 11:54:55 PM
You are quite welcome but remember...it is the Internet.

I wouldn't bet the ranch on it being right. Check with the local cops wouldn't hurt. Before you buy.  ;)
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Jackal1 on July 01, 2005, 11:58:52 PM
The same thing has been going on for as long as I can remember.
  When M80s were outlawed here, we could go 35 miles, cross the state line and buy them by the bushel basket.
  Peeps were lined up to buy them and bring them back across the line and sell them for double the price.
  That`s been a while ago. Believe me. :)
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Meatwad on July 02, 2005, 12:00:00 AM
here in IL about everything is illegal, even though tents popup everywhere and you can but it there. plus most of us travel to missouri and buy te good stuff there. Shoot I went across the river the other night and bought a bunch of rockets and mortars.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: nirvana on July 02, 2005, 12:33:44 AM
lol well maybe it was cause we were shooting them at 4 in the afternoon.  All the same i'm gonna try to contact someone at the fire marshal's ofice or PD by e mail.  Hopefully i'll get a response before Monday.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: bigsky on July 02, 2005, 12:47:52 AM
i get my good fireworks from the indian reservation where state laws dont exist.:aok
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: nirvana on July 02, 2005, 12:52:06 AM
Freaking city limitations screw me over again.  Apparently the fire works stand is like a foot over the city limits so they can sell them over there but its illegal to sell or possess any on this side.  Legalities and political mumbo jumbo really tick me off.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 02, 2005, 01:38:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yeah, I noticed the same thing here (In pennsylvania).

Last I heard they were illegal.  But everywhere you turn they are being sold.  Not just the puny supermarket stuff either.


I remember last year hearing on the radio that you could buy them in pennsy only if you live in a different state. You couldnt by em in pennsy if you lived in pennsy and they used your drivers licence as ID.

Here in Jersey its illegal to sell or possess them. Even sparklers are illegal Which IMO is getting jussst a bit carried away
Used to have a township cop living next door that said that they rarely enforced that law in my town unless they were getting reports of kids using them or were doing something like shooting them at peoples houses.

Good to know considering I have enough ord stashed to start a small war  everything from sparklers to morters LMAO.

Down a bit from last year when I had enough to start several small wars though.
Used about a 3rd last 4th then some now and then in between.
New years,Birthdays etc. And some just because.Such as, for example one day when my son didnt feel like waking up in the morning in the normal way a pack of black cats went into his waste can. Damn firecrackers echo nice in metal can LOL
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 02, 2005, 01:46:48 AM
Well, it's a knee jerk reaction Dred.

2 or 3 years back, most of this stuff was legal (except for the really dangerous stuff).


But some kid of a state legislator blew his hand clean off with an M80.  Now fireworks are banned.


I, on the other hand, think that fireworks should be completely legal.  Not for my sake.

But mainly because I think that the gene pool needs a little chlorine everyonce in a while...
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 02, 2005, 07:40:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Well, it's a knee jerk reaction Dred.

2 or 3 years back, most of this stuff was legal (except for the really dangerous stuff).


But some kid of a state legislator blew his hand clean off with an M80.  Now fireworks are banned.


I, on the other hand, think that fireworks should be completely legal.  Not for my sake.

But mainly because I think that the gene pool needs a little chlorine everyonce in a while...


oh I can understand the reaction.  Though I dont agree with it.
But Sparklers??

I think they should be legal too.
But Im completely against any law that is designed to protect myself or anyone else from themselves.

If I or anyone else is willing to roll the dice and take the chance. That should be entirely our prerogative.

Give it time. You can bet the house that eventually the goody goodies of the world will have  Mountain climbing and skydiving  be illegal too.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Vulcan on July 02, 2005, 08:46:35 AM
Actually sparklers can be bundled together tightly to make a "sparkler bomb".

Weren't you ever a child?
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Vulcan on July 02, 2005, 08:48:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Well, it's a knee jerk reaction Dred.

2 or 3 years back, most of this stuff was legal (except for the really dangerous stuff).


But some kid of a state legislator blew his hand clean off with an M80.  Now fireworks are banned.


I, on the other hand, think that fireworks should be completely legal.  Not for my sake.

But mainly because I think that the gene pool needs a little chlorine everyonce in a while...


NZ banned most fireworks except for licensed operators, child safety was a minor aspect, the scrub fires, house fires, garage fires, and night of shear lunacy we had every Guy Fawkes got to be too much.

I can still remember the hill the other side of our home massively ablaze about 8 years ago before the ban.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Maverick on July 02, 2005, 08:49:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
The same thing has been going on for as long as I can remember.
  When M80s were outlawed here, we could go 35 miles, cross the state line and buy them by the bushel basket.
  Peeps were lined up to buy them and bring them back across the line and sell them for double the price.
  That`s been a while ago. Believe me. :)


Little marshmallow confections were trafficing in illegal fireworks?!?!?!?! That proves that too much sugar makes you go bad!!! I say we ban peeps!!! :mad:
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Shuckins on July 02, 2005, 09:01:07 AM
As someone who has sold fireworks, and has used all types of them throughout my entire life, I can honestly say that they safe as long as they are used in the manner in which they were originally intended.

It's the experimentation that'll get ya hurt.

By the way, after 50-some-odd years of life I can't name a single instance in my personal experience of someone getting an eye put out by a bottle rocket or having a finger blown off by a fire-cracker.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Delirium on July 02, 2005, 09:15:37 AM
Quote
July 4. Statistics show that we lose more fools on this day than in all the other days of the year put together. This proves, by the number left in stock, that one fourth of July per year is now inadequate, the country has grown so.


Mark Twain
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Delirium on July 02, 2005, 09:17:21 AM
Work in the medical field... I guarantee you'll see a few.

Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
I can't name a single instance in my personal experience of someone getting an eye put out by a bottle rocket or having a finger blown off by a fire-cracker.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: spitfiremkv on July 02, 2005, 10:43:54 AM
why buy fireworks when you can make them...it's more exciting that way, you never know what you're gonna get!
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: nirvana on July 02, 2005, 02:30:59 PM
I concur, banning something like sparklers, now that they've removed the metal wiring.  I read a case about a kid lighting a bottle rocket in his garage and ruining the garage and car.  I wonder if they took the time to fill the garage with hydrogen gas or something before?  And if someone says "HEY DUDE! hold onto this mortar as I light it to see what happens!!!!11!!" then he deserves his hand to be blown off.  There are warning labels for a reason, read the, respect the power certain fireworks have, and enjoy.  A ban on SPARKLERS is complete lunacy.  Once again lack of responsibility....:rolleyes:
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 02, 2005, 04:02:12 PM
No, a ban on sparklers isn't complete lunacy.


Sparklers burn at an incredibly high temperature.  And most people don't realize this.  Especially a 4 year old who really doesn't know much about the world.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: SuperDud on July 02, 2005, 04:56:40 PM
It's illegal in OH(except snakes and sparklers) but not really enforced in the Cincinnati area as far as I can tell. I've seen cops just rollin down the street with fireworks goin off left and right. I think it would be to much of a burden to try to stop it so they just make sure everyones doing it responsibly.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Deth7 on July 02, 2005, 05:16:03 PM
In Florida any day of the year u can see fireworks goin off... the way it should be everywhere else
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: SOB on July 02, 2005, 05:33:13 PM
In Oregon, you can have fountains and lesser.  No bottle rockets or the like.  Across the river in Washington, you can get mortars and some more powerful stuff, but oddly, no bottle rockets...not even the little kind.

We got caugh red-handed shooting off the illegal stuf here when I was in my early twenties.  Nothing serious happened...the cop just took what we had left and told us to knock it off.  That was before 9/11 and the paranoia though.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: nirvana on July 02, 2005, 07:08:37 PM
I'd like to have a cop respond on this issue as to whether they make sure people are doing it responsibly.  Like you said SOB they take your stuff and tell you to stop.  The city about 4 miles down the road can shoot off fireworks but we can't so it's kind of a wtf situation.  Suppose you could go set up a tent in one of the legal cities and do it.  Just small stuff allowed In colorado too though, novelties, sparklers, snakes etc.


I see what you're saying though lasersailor but when I was 4 if I had a sparkler my parents had eyes on me the whole time.  Not sure about parents these days though.  

Seeing as how police could have more to respond to (drunk drivers) then some people lighting some fountains and such i can't imagine they would do much more then make sure you are doing it safe.  May just depend on the officer though.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: superpug1 on July 03, 2005, 12:00:32 AM
man, sux 4 yall. here in my lil part of texas u can have whatever u want. just cant blow it up in the city. so i walk about 100 yards to a field and blow stuff up there with my friends. lol, i made a bottle rocket launcher, gets em about 100 ards. it shoot hobby rockets 2.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 03, 2005, 12:11:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Actually sparklers can be bundled together tightly to make a "sparkler bomb".

Weren't you ever a child?


Naa some mad doctor just threw me together out of spare parts he had laying around:)
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: SOB on July 03, 2005, 12:13:38 AM
Ahhh, I remember the sparkler bomb!  I don't think it works with the new, family friendly sparklers.  I haven't tried it recently though.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 03, 2005, 12:19:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, a ban on sparklers isn't complete lunacy.


Sparklers burn at an incredibly high temperature.  And most people don't realize this.  Especially a 4 year old who really doesn't know much about the world.


Thast why it says on the box. "use only under adult supervision"

If parents, just did something other then whine and try to ban every little thing that their child might get hurt with...
If they did something really unique and unusual like... PARENTING, there wouldnt be any need to be a ban because parents would have taught their kids that  its a really bad idea to grab the glowing part.

Although if your giving a 4 year old a lit sparkler and letting the child hold it all by him/herself You dont deserve to have a kid anyway
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 03, 2005, 12:28:38 AM
Funny thing is all week long as is usual before the 4th on the radio they have been going on about how fireworks are illegal.

And as usual everyone ignores em

Tonight my neighborhood sounded like the Dday landings.

Course I hadta chime in.

Tomorrow night the neighborhood will probably sound like WWIII LOL

Amazing for how dangerous they are that more people dont get hurt.
Still the exeption and not the norm.
Bet like last year more people get hurt in drunk driving accidents then get hurt by firworks
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 03, 2005, 03:14:51 AM
LOL - you guys need a permit to buy a bottle rocket? :lol

Fireworks have been a big tradition in my family - every November 5 - Guy Fawkes Day, which commerorates the Gunpowder Plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament on that day in 1605. Read about it here (http://www.parliament.uk/faq/gunpowder_plot.cfm).

I never knew of any restrictions. We could always buy rockets of any size, Roman candles, Catherine wheels (any size - we used to get the 14 inch) six point stars and, for the grande finale, an airbomb battery!  My dad loved our fireworks displays, and no expense was spared! We bought the really big ones - those little boxes are a waste of money IMO. Some of the big rockets had sticks about 5ft long.

We had ONE injury once - someone was clearing up and threw some "dead" fireworks on the bonfire. One wasn't quite dead and discharged a ball of flame, burning the guy's leg quite badly.

The only other accident was when one of the big rockets had got wet (Nov.5 is often wet here) and it failed to take off properly. It went horizontal but then ignited properly and took off, blasting into a fence where it became wedged and discharging balls of fire across our garden. Didn't do the fence any good either.

The most dangerous ones were those little aeroplane things - they would fly, but you never knew what the direction was going to be. We made sure the unused fireworks were safely out of the way.
Quote
Sky Rockets: With Permit Only
:rofl
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: SOB on July 03, 2005, 08:16:51 AM
Actually, as is pretty clear from everyone noting the state they're in, the restrictions are different from state to state.  Driving through South Dakota, for example, you can stop by any number of fireworks places and get mortars plenty large enough to blow yourself to kingdom come...or I suppose you could shoot them into the sky too.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 03, 2005, 08:49:08 AM
Sparklers:

Both the wire kind and the bamboo kind are sold in the US.  Most fireworks injuries come from sparkers.  Why?  Because morons think that they are made for kids and give them to little ones who get excited, whip them around and poke their little brother in the eye with them.  
The wire kind are particularly bad because the wire retains and can transfer a lot of heat.  They can be made into bombs.
The bamboo & tissue paper kind can also be made into bombs.  “Morning Glory” sparklers have three stages, the last stage contains a lot of aluminum powder; almost the same stuff in firecrackers except a heck of a lot more (if you slick one open lengthwise, you can see all 3 stages).  The sparkler kind can detonate, but it takes a big shock to set it off.  Want to see for yourself?  Get some safety goggles, a long leather glove ear protection a coat and a hammer.  Place the Morning Glory on concrete or a big rock.  Put on the coat, glove, ear protection and goggles; don’t leave any skin on your hammering hand/arm exposed.  Hit the Morning Glory on its bottom stage really really hard.  If you get it to detonate, you will know and you will be glad that you put on all of the protection.  
The powder from the bottom stage of Morning Glory sparklers is very stable, it can’t detonate from ignition; it needs a massive shock from a hard impact or other detonation to set it off.

eskimo
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 03, 2005, 09:13:42 AM
Fireworks Laws

They are what they are.  Some cities, counties, states, etc. allow certain things, others don’t.  Vendors sell them where they legally can.  The public buys them where they legally can.  Very often stands are located right on a border to take advantage of customers who are entering a legal area in search of fireworks.  It’s pretty simple.

Want to shoot off fireworks legally?  Just figure out who you know who lives in or owns land in the legal zone and ask them if you can put on a little show for them.  If you don’t know anyone in that area, look for a good spot and ask.  Sometimes people own gravel pits or such and they don’t care what people do on their land.

Whatever you do, don’t be stupid.  If the fire danger is high, don’t shoot them off anywhere.  Wait for a better day.  Don’t shoot them at people or property that will draw major attention to yourself versus everyone else who is shooting off fireworks civilly.  And, don’t carry fireworks in your pockets, always in a bag that you can drop.

eskimo
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 03, 2005, 09:41:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
LOL - you guys need a permit to buy a bottle rocket?  Fireworks have been a big tradition in my family - every November 5 - Guy Fawkes Day, which commerorates the Gunpowder Plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament on that day in 1605.


Let's consider the fire danger of November in England vs. July in Southern Califorina.

In which climate would a fire destroying 300 homes more likely occur?
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: AWMac on July 03, 2005, 09:42:07 AM
Dudes... make yer own fireworks...

Save all the toilet paper/paper towel cardboard tubes.  
You can buy gun powder very cheap, hardware store.
Duct tape... the more the better!
Green waterproof fuse by the yards...
Crayons, Crayolas for color!!!
BIG BOOM for the Buck..saves $$$.
Got a Neighbour who's a pain in the arse?  Powder, Fuse, Duct tape Mail Box.... need I say more?

Had the City redo many potholes in my Cul~De~Sac year after year...still they are not on to me yet...*Shhhhh....*

Do NOT add tacks or nails... that's anuther thread.

I've ONLY read about this and would NEVAR advocate any of the above.

Have a Safe 4th.

Mac

:D
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: spitfiremkv on July 03, 2005, 09:53:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Deth7
In Florida any day of the year u can see fireworks goin off... the way it should be everywhere else


hehe I remember dropping all kinds of **** on the street from my friend's terrace. Smoke bombs, sparklers, u name it. Shooting rockets too.
Good thing hardly anybody drove on that street.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: spitfiremkv on July 03, 2005, 09:54:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac

You can buy gun powder very cheap, hardware store.


:D



what you mean you won't MAKE the gunpowder also? you dissapoint me!
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: JB66 on July 03, 2005, 12:36:45 PM
I remember years ago in Florida there was a problem with selling bottle rockets.  The stands would have people sign a disclaimer stating that they were purchasing the bottle rockets "for farm use only".  I think that loophole got patched pretty quickly.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 03, 2005, 01:45:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Let's consider the fire danger of November in England vs. July in Southern Califorina.

In which climate would a fire destroying 300 homes more likely occur?
The danger is probably more real here! The houses tend to be closer together, and the plots smaller. Nov. 5 is the busiest night of the year for the fire service. The burns units at hospitals do a good trade too. But... (if I may borrow the logic from another discussion) - fireworks are not the problem! A rocket/sparkler/roman candle is an inanimate object - so why the need for permits?  ;)
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 03, 2005, 01:51:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
The danger is probably more real here!


Whatever you say... (http://thedude.com/images/California_fire.jpg)
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 03, 2005, 02:07:33 PM
I know that the drive in California was pushed by the fire services. They wanted anything that was burning and could fly out of control, like a bottle rocket or a roman candle, to be illegal lest it land in the dry grass and start a conflagration.

Something about the 4th that puts fireworks in the hands of unsupervised children or drunken adults in 10,000 hectares of dry tinder made firefighters nervous.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 04, 2005, 03:18:49 AM
How does having a permit negate the fire risk?
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 04, 2005, 08:59:18 AM
I'm not saying it does Beetle.  I am telling you the forces behind the law.(s)

The "safe and sane" fireworks available legally are not ballistic and do not explode.   Sparklers and smoke worms and non flying displays.  They suck.  Buy from Indian reservations where these laws do not apply and you get the good stuff anyway.

The fireworks everyone wants, and many still get, are supposed to be set off in civic displays by professionals.  This, if it worked, could lessen the fire danger.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 04, 2005, 09:32:49 AM
Maybe.  - still makes me laugh to think of you guys applying for a permit to get a bottle rocket. :lol
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 04, 2005, 09:43:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Maybe.  - still makes me laugh to think of you guys applying for a permit to get a bottle rocket. :lol


Hey till a few years ago you hadta apply for a licence  to be able to buy the engines for model rockets.


Which reminds me. How many of those things you think it  would take to hoist a can of butane into the air?
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 04, 2005, 10:00:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
The danger is probably more real here! The houses tend to be closer together, and the plots smaller. Nov. 5 is the busiest night of the year for the fire service.


The biggest fire risk is of a major conflagration that could take hundreds or thousands of homes.

There is almost no comparison.  Much of the US is far worse than Britain could ever be as far as fire danger goes.  Britain is a pretty wet, mostly urban place.  Many parts of the US have very dry seasons or spells.  Dryness, combined with wind poses the biggest risk and potential for major fires.  Once a fire gets seriously going in a dry windy place, there is no stopping it.  Parts of the US (like where I live now, Ohio) have very small fire risk.  Even during a dry spell here its safer than much of the rest of the US ever gets.  The west coast, Rockies and Alaska have major burns quite often.

About the only way to get a good unstoppable fire going in Britain is with a few hundred Heinkle 111s; they’ve got to break the water mains first though.

eskimo
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 04, 2005, 10:09:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Maybe.  - still makes me laugh to think of you guys applying for a permit to get a bottle rocket. :lol


Depends on where you are at; in much of the US citizens can buy any class-C fireworks.  In other places it’s none.  Many places are somewhere in-between.  It helps cut down on the fire risk in the urban interface.  In the urban areas the laws help cut down on punk kids shooting fireworks at each other, property and other citizens.  Permits often prove that the buyer lives in a legal or safe zone.

eskimo
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 04, 2005, 10:18:47 AM
Eskimo2 - are you saying that the restrictions on fireworks purchases in the US are purely because of fire risk considerations? Even in Washington state, which is notorious for rainfall, a permit is required for a bottle rocket! The northeast US is not dissimilar to Britain, hence it became known as "New England" The climate in Maine is not searing hot like parts of the south. And yet in Maine, the fireworks restrictions are among the toughest.
Quote
Bottle Rockets:         With Permit Only
     Sky Rockets:    With Permit Only
     Roman Candles:    With Permit Only
     Firecrackers:    With Permit Only
     Sparklers:    Legally Allowed
     Smoke and Punk:    With Permit Only
     Fountains:    With Permit Only
     Missiles:    With Permit Only
     Novelties:    Legally Allowed
     Crackle and Strobe:    With Permit Only
     Parachutes:    With Permit Only
     Wheels and Spinners:    With Permit Only
     Sky Flyers:    With Permit Only
     Display Shells:    With Permit Only
     Aerial Items (Cakes):    With Permit Only
Yes, England has a lot of urban areas, and that was my point. The houses can be close together, so that when we let loose those big rockets, their remains are almost certain to land on someone else's property.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 04, 2005, 10:23:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Eskimo2 - are you saying that the restrictions on fireworks purchases in the US are purely because of fire risk considerations? Even in Washington state, which is notorious for rainfall, a permit is required for a bottle rocket! The northeast US is not dissimilar to Britain, hence it became known as "New England" The climate in Maine is not searing hot like parts of the south. And yet in Maine, the fireworks restrictions are among the toughest.
 

Apparently Maine has a stick up its butt, so?...

Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Yes, England has a lot of urban areas, and that was my point. The houses can be close together, so that when we let loose those big rockets, their remains are almost certain to land on someone else's property.


So?
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 04, 2005, 10:36:14 AM
So...
Quote
Much of the US is far worse than Britain could ever be as far as fire danger goes. Britain is a pretty wet, mostly urban place. Many parts of the US have very dry seasons or spells. Dryness, combined with wind poses the biggest risk and potential for major fires.
...your argument that the fireworks restrictions exist purely because of perceived fire hazards does not hold water. I could understand it if fireworks were not permitted in certain dry areas during heatwaves, but Washington State??? Maine??? Even here in Blighty, we get forest fires, eg. in the New Forest. But although the main fireworks season is in November when is is damp or even wet usually, we can buy fireworks all year round. Not many shops stock them though, except in the run up to Guy Fawkes night.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 04, 2005, 10:39:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Even in Washington state, which is notorious for rainfall, a permit is required for a bottle rocket!

3/4 of Washington is dry, as is Oregon.

(http://www.abcamerica.net/Images/Week02/Eastern%20Washington.jpg)  

The eastern slopes of the Cascades are dry forests and can look like this in the summer:

(http://www.wildnatureimages.com/Ca%20to%20H/FOREST-FIRE..jpg )

Even the Coast Range can burn  (http://www.oregon.sierraclub.org/conserv/tillamook/media/images/overlookingthe1951fire.gif)

Bottle rockets AFAIK are not 'permitted'; they are illegal... however they are easily available anyway.  A parallel for your favorite subject.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Jackal1 on July 04, 2005, 10:48:20 AM
Beet, I`m curious..... what does the people of your country use fireworks to celebrate?
  I was also wondering if the bottle rockets there are fired in pairs. Yaknow, one to kick the other one`s *** and send it home. :)
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 04, 2005, 10:50:27 AM
I gave you two reasons, but never said that it was limited only those two.  I’m sure that there are places in the US where fireworks are banned purely because of a few whiney ninnies.  There are probably other reasons as well.  The US is made up of 50 states, each state has many counties and cities.  I have no idea why Maine has its fireworks laws; they do have a lot of forests though.  I have no idea if they ever get dry; never been there.

Clearly the biggest and most common reason in the US however, is fire danger.  
If fireworks are used in a low fire danger area sporadically, because it’s not a traditional fireworks night, fire department can keep up.  On the 4th, however, there could be hundreds of fires at once; no fire department could keep up.  Like I said, there is no comparison of the fire danger in Britain and much of the US.

eskimo
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 04, 2005, 10:58:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The eastern slopes of the Cascades are dry forests and can look like this in the summer:
Yes I know. I've flown in the Cascades area - but how many dwellings are there in that area, from which fireworks could be released? It's called the Three Sisters Wilderness area, and for good reason. If the fire hazard is so bad, is a permit required to smoke a cigarette?

Quote
About the only way to get a good unstoppable fire going in Britain is with a few hundred Heinkle 111s; they’ve got to break the water mains first though.
You're quite wrong. Here's a picture of Ashdown Forest, around Easter 1984. 600 acres burned.

(http://www.ashdownforest.org/assets/images/fire_intro.gif)

Source: http://www.ashdownforest.org/html/fire.html

The above wasn't an isolated incident either:
Quote
Fires can have a devastating effect on the Forest. In 1984, on the Easter Bank Holiday weekend, over 600 acres were burned in one accidental fire. Every year, in the spring, the Rangers and local Fire Brigades attend a dozen fires, which can vary in size from a small patch to many hectares.
- and that's just one forest...

Jackal1 - The answer to your Q is in my first post in this thread.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Jackal1 on July 04, 2005, 11:12:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e

Jackal1 - The answer to your Q is in my first post in this thread.


  No it`s not. There is nothing in that post concerning firing bottle rockets in pairs. :)
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 04, 2005, 11:15:43 AM
You have to go back 20 years to find a 600 acre fire?

In Alaska alone last year 5,000,000 acres burned.  Alaska did not dominate the US fire stories last year either.  
Like I said, no comparison.

eskimo
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Toad on July 04, 2005, 11:22:56 AM
But 600 acres is a lot of ground in England. That's almost a square mile!

England proper (without Scotland and Wales) is about  50,000 square miles.

So you have to put it in perspective; Kansas has only 82,282 square miles, 15th in the nation.

;)
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 04, 2005, 11:25:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Yes I know. I've flown in the Cascades area - but how many dwellings are there in that area, from which fireworks could be released? It's called the Three Sisters Wilderness area, and for good reason. If the fire hazard is so bad, is a permit required to smoke a cigarette?


100,000 people in the Bend area now.  Spokane, Pasco, Wenatchee, all have people too.  

When you flew the C150 from Mahlon Sweet to Bend, you could have still flown east a good three hours and still been in Oregon, and all that time you would be flying over high desert and dry forest.

When forest fire danger is high, they shut down all commercial forest operations, and I think I remember even ban smoking when extreme.

Quote
from New Mexico State Forestry Dept
Smoldering cigarettes can start fires hours after being dropped or thrown away. Never toss cigarettes out of cars. Be aware of smoking restrictions in Forests, National Parks, BLM, and other public lands. Smoking may be restricted to inside vehicles or in paved parking areas.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 04, 2005, 11:53:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
You have to go back 20 years to find a 600 acre fire?

In Alaska alone last year 5,000,000 acres burned.  Alaska did not dominate the US fire stories last year either.  
Like I said, no comparison.

eskimo
At least I didn't have to go back to the days of the Heinkel-111 for my example! :p

No comparison between Alaska and Britain. Alaska is 570,000+ square miles, Britain is less than 95,000. Yet Britain's population is around 58m, so the population density here is about 1000 times as high, with the potential for many more fireworks per square mile to be let off!

How much of the 5m acres that got burned in Alaska was caused by fireworks? Not too much is my guess, as the population of Alaska is only about 550,000. And that's probably why there are NO fireworks restrictions in Alaska, according to the website linked by Mr. Toad.

One of the factors with regard to those fires that get out of control is the ability of the fire services to get to them. Britain is quite small, so there aren't any really remote areas, which means that the fire services can get to fires quickly, before they get out of control. There's likely to be a ready supply of water nearby. But in remote areas of the US like the Cascades, I don't suppose there are any fire hydrants, some areas are inaccessible by road, and the fire services might have to travel many miles to get there.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 04, 2005, 12:19:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
At least I didn't have to go back to the days of the Heinkel-111 for my example! :p

No comparison between Alaska and Britain. Alaska is 570,000+ square miles, Britain is less than 95,000. Yet Britain's population is around 58m, so the population density here is about 1000 times as high, with the potential for many more fireworks per square mile to be let off!

How much of the 5m acres that got burned in Alaska was caused by fireworks? Not too much is my guess, as the population of Alaska is only about 550,000. And that's probably why there are NO fireworks restrictions in Alaska, according to the website linked by Mr. Toad.

One of the factors with regard to those fires that get out of control is the ability of the fire services to get to them. Britain is quite small, so there aren't any really remote areas, which means that the fire services can get to fires quickly, before they get out of control. There's likely to be a ready supply of water nearby. But in remote areas of the US like the Cascades, I don't suppose there are any fire hydrants, some areas are inaccessible by road, and the fire services might have to travel many miles to get there.


OK, fine.  Chop Alaska into 6 parts, each the size of Britain.  Last year each of those parts had 830,000 acres burn.  We have to go back to1984 in Britain to find a 600 acre fire.

In the short time that I spent as a firefighter in Alaska, I fought dozens of wildland fires.  The largest fire I fought was 60,000 acres in a wildland-urban interface area and it took 400 structures.


Total Number of Wildland Fires and Acres from
January 1 to  by State

State   Fires   Acres
AK   547   2,267,380
AL   3,005   39,221
AR   1,331   14,405
AZ   2,860   650,466
CA   7,622   491,333
CO   3,072   915,291
CT   101   184
DE   30   1,659
FL   2,495   50,304
GA   7,179   159,951
HI   1   3,660
IA   5   1,045
ID   1,483   84,854
IL   27   94
IN   578   1,684
KS   24   2,659
KY   1,005   25,092
LA   1,120   22,566
MA   3,018   2,611
MD   726   4,825
ME   662   784
MI   277   966
MN   2,013   62,935
MO   89   3,096
MS   1,006   16,601
MT   1,412   111,819
NC   5,417   34,320
ND   811   58,686
NE   45   427
NH   424   168
NJ   1,760   6,053
NM   1,822   325,458
NV   734   85,099
NY   336   2,044
OH   577   3,969
OK   1,006   29,161
OR   2,631   1,010,844
PA   529   1,961
PR   2   4
RI   128   213
SC   3,567   30,943
SD   639   30,679
TN   1,469   14,993
TX   1,104   29,403
UT   1,226   265,337
VA   1,699   23,294
VT   128   214
WA   1,281   88,863
WI   800   1,611
WV   814   8,681
WY   523   124,823
 
Grand Totals   71,160   7,112,733
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Toad on July 04, 2005, 12:25:20 PM
Alaska's lack of restrictions is probably related to their view of themselves as the "last frontier".

They're just not the kind of folks that go in for a lot or rules, laws and nannying.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 04, 2005, 12:25:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
We have to go back to1984 in Britain to find a 600 acre fire.
No, that was the first link I found, and relates only to one particular forest.

But point taken! As I type this, the temperature outside is about 12° and it's pissing down with rain - happy July 4! :lol
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: eskimo2 on July 04, 2005, 12:40:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Alaska's lack of restrictions is probably related to their view of themselves as the "last frontier".

They're just not the kind of folks that go in for a lot or rules, laws and nannying.


True, all states are different and Alaska leans toward the free end.  At least twice, however, in the past decade fireworks have been banned statewide in Alaska due to fire dander.

eskimo
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 04, 2005, 01:41:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Alaska's lack of restrictions is probably related to their view of themselves as the "last frontier".

They're just not the kind of folks that go in for a lot or rules, laws and nannying.
Indeed. And there would be little point. If 5,000,000 acres are being burned in AK, and there's only an average ~one person per square mile or 640 acres in the state, then clearly the forest burning has got bugger all to do with fireworks.

And with regard to fireworks, we don't have a lot of nannying here. But just wait - I'm sure that Nanny Blair will get around to it.

Jackal - bottle rockets in pairs? We never bothered with "bottle" rockets. Why bother, when we can buy the ones that stand 5ft high in the launch pad (upturned incinerator with holes in the bottom)?
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: cpxxx on July 04, 2005, 03:40:52 PM
Fireworks have been banned here for years. So of course every Halloween which is when we traditionally use fireworks. The place lights up like..........well the fourth of July. Literally non stop for the entire night. All the bangs and blasts merging in one continuous roar.  

Naturally being completely banned it produces a thriving business in smuggling and of course it's mostly children who have fireworks and they always demonstrate their usual maturity in using them.  Adults rarely control fireworks.  Not one of the most successful laws ever enacted. I could never buy fireworks as I tend to look like an off duty cop and they scatter when I approach. (It's the same with drug dealers  :)  )
 
Bonfires are also completely banned so of course in the midst of all the noise. The sky lights up with the glow of innumerable bonfires, usually organised and built literally in hours by groups of boys average age twelve.


Banning fireworks is one of those laws that never really work.

Happy fourth of July.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: nirvana on July 05, 2005, 12:50:59 AM
The ones that don't explode or leave the ground are extremely dangerous.  My point, the little pick one that spin and "bloom" into several colours.  They more often then not spin out of control.  Any other reason then noise pollution in banning firecrackers or lady fingers is purely a cover.  M-80's contain about 4 times as much powder as a standard black cat firecracker which makes for a much stronger explosion.  My friend has had the firecrackers explode in his hand on several occasions.  A slight numbness is all that follows his stupidity.  Then again you have the fragile children.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Azul32 on July 05, 2005, 05:05:36 AM
Well i live in Az as you guys might know its dry as he!! here. As long as I can remember no kind of fireworks are allowed.
but i live in a somewhat of large city(Tucson) every year they have a fireworks display at a nearby mtn.
Every year me and my buddys have a running bet if they gonna burn down the mtn or not. It almost never fails that they burn the damn thing down.:rofl

BTW if anyone willing to ship me some that would be cool I hate having to drive 150  miles just to get some bottle rockets:D




P.S. I didnt go and watch them this year due to fact i'm  just getting to old to party anymore, so have no idea if they burnt it down or not....details to follow tommorrow
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: nirvana on July 05, 2005, 06:33:19 AM
Make it a state law. Period.  Fireworks or none, none of these cities micromanaging what the state doesn't want to.  The government may do the micromanaging stuff but i think fireworks should be a statewide issue.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Skydancer on July 05, 2005, 07:17:36 AM
Fireworks...

Big organised displays great!

The rest? Do my head in.  From about September right through to december it sounds like a war zone in Birmingham. We have em going off every night. Usualy kids getting hold of them. They are sold becausewe have Guy Fawkes night, Divali, Chinese new year etc etc. The biggest headache is my poor hound who goes bloody mental for the whole 4 months. I used to love em but as I approach grumpy old manhood I'm begining to hate the bloody things.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: lazs2 on July 05, 2005, 08:52:25 AM
LooK at it this way when you are tempted to play with fireworks?

Would your mom aprove?   would it displease a woman somewhere?   Is it possible for someone to get hurt or "feel less than" if you use them?

using a sparker makes you look like the torch bearer for the gay olympics.

If fireworks frieghten you....  don't buy any.

lazs
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: Jackal1 on July 05, 2005, 09:10:02 AM
I`ve paid good money to go to displays before. Usualy took an hour or so to get in . Had to walk forever and the humidity felt like a wet blanket that had just had a kettle of hot water dumped on it. Never again.
  Don`t have to since I moved to the lake.
This makes the third year we have went to the boat ramp about a 1/4 mile from my house. Best fireworks show ever.
  People fill up the boat ramp spaces. The lot next to it, the lot across the highway and down both sides of the road.
  The highlight last night was when some enterprising young man ,with superior aim, plastered the windshield of the county squad car that was sitting at the entrance to a store across the road while watching the activity. The deputy stepped out and did the "I`m not worthy" wave. Cracked everyone up and everyone had a great time.
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: beet1e on July 05, 2005, 10:29:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
we have went  
What tense is THAT???

Skydancer - I agree with you. The fireworks thing has become a whole season, with those annoying rockets that launch and then make a pathetic pop.

Hmmm, it's been a few years since we had one of those big parties - I'll suggest it for this year. Much more fun when you can light your own. :aok
Title: fireworks laws
Post by: JB73 on July 05, 2005, 02:54:00 PM
i can tell you this about fireworks in WI....

they are legal to sell most kinds, legal to own, but not legal to set off... mostly

anything that moves on it's own, like say a bottle rocket, whitch wistle, whatever, anything that explodes, and anything that shoots over a set distance (i think like 1 foot) is illegal to fire off.

you can use "snakes" and teensy fountian cones, and sparklers IIRC. but no sparklers on public ground like public parks. i guess the wires left laying on the ground poke into kiddies feet.