Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Midnight on July 03, 2005, 10:05:33 AM

Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Midnight on July 03, 2005, 10:05:33 AM
Here's an interesting question. Some of us have a particular aircraft in AH that we love to fly, or fly all the time, or whatever, and many in the community think it should be perked for one reason or another (i.e. P-51D, La7, etc.).

In my case, it's the P-51D. So the question is, what changes to the game could you see as validation for needing to have your favorite NON-perked plane become perked?

For the P-51D to become perked, I think the following
1. No more auto-retracting flaps on aircraft
2. Addition of K14 active gunsight
3. Removal of "Replenishable" WEP
4. Additional engine controls that on early war fighters were manually adjusted but on the P-51D were automatic.
5. Gun / Cannon malfunctions that can be caused by pilot (not random) error (I.e. Firing guns in very high G turns, firing when inverted, etc.)
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 03, 2005, 11:19:53 AM
Oh, I don't know, I guess if they'd dump the auto retract flaps and model the Lockheed power ratings on the P-38L-5-Lo I'd say it would be reasonable to expect a light perk on the level of the C Hog. I'd expect some improvements to the spin recovery as well.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Pooface on July 03, 2005, 11:22:02 AM
excuse my ignorance but what was the active gunsight (what made it so special)?
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 03, 2005, 11:28:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pooface
excuse my ignorance but what was the active gunsight (what made it so special)?


It was a lead computing sight with gyro compensation.
Title: Re: Perk My Ride
Post by: Wind on July 03, 2005, 01:19:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight
1. No more auto-retracting flaps on aircraft


Holy Crap!  If they did that across the board, I might actually try flying a 109 again!

W~
Title: Re: Re: Perk My Ride
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on July 03, 2005, 02:55:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wind
Holy Crap!  If they did that across the board, I might actually try flying a 109 again!

W~


And you'd still lawndart it :p
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: culero on July 03, 2005, 03:11:52 PM
A kill has been recorded :)
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: BigR on July 03, 2005, 04:35:10 PM
i HATE auto flap retract..that is all.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 03, 2005, 05:13:31 PM
Unfortunately BigR, far too many people like to be coddled in this game and will cry to high heaven when thought of removing this highly unrealistic and gamey feature is removed.  Funny thing, the majority that whine  for keeping it in also demand increase "realism" in their game.  :rolleyes:



ack-ack
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Kweassa on July 03, 2005, 05:27:02 PM
*Snicker*

 You wish, Ack, you wish.

 But the truth is far more complicated than the fabrication you'd like to believe in.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Shane on July 03, 2005, 10:29:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
But the truth is far more complicated than the fabrication you'd like to believe in.


it's also a lot shorter than the WoT you'd like us to think would prove as much.

:aok
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: SirLoin on July 03, 2005, 11:46:38 PM
I agree with every point except perking the P51..
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Fruda on July 03, 2005, 11:57:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
I agree with every point except perking the P51..


Same here... I mean, I've shot down plenty of P-51's. They're not really a big deal, unless you encounter a really good pilot at high altitude (and we know how rare that is in the MA).
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Midnight on July 04, 2005, 07:30:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Fruda
Same here... I mean, I've shot down plenty of P-51's. They're not really a big deal, unless you encounter a really good pilot at high altitude (and we know how rare that is in the MA).


As it is in AH today, I do not want the P-51D perked either. It is pretty much the only thing I fly in the MA (going on 5 years). However, if the features I listed were added into the game, the P-51D would have a big advantage (especially if the K14 gunsight were added) that I think would merit it to be perked.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: 1K3 on July 04, 2005, 12:00:06 PM
Didint late war Spitfires, P-38s, and P-47s have gyro gunsight?
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Guppy35 on July 04, 2005, 12:13:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Didint late war Spitfires, P-38s, and P-47s have gyro gunsight?


Mark II Gyro gunsite went into full scale production in late 43 and was being used by Spit drivers in 44

K-14 started showing up in the 51s in the late summer of 44.

Dan/CorkyJr
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Furball on July 04, 2005, 12:18:46 PM
i do not understand this auto retract whine.

if auto retract = bye bye

flaps = breaky breaky instead of retracty retracty.

what is so bad about it?
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Karnak on July 04, 2005, 02:44:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
i do not understand this auto retract whine.

if auto retract = bye bye

flaps = breaky breaky instead of retracty retracty.

what is so bad about it?

Because that isn't what they want.  They want flaps that stick around at higher airspeeds instead of either retracting or breaking off at their rated speed.  The choice was put to them bluntly and they prevaricated.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: sax on July 04, 2005, 03:12:28 PM
give me evrything I want on the FM2 and perk it as well.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: eilif on July 04, 2005, 04:07:22 PM
Quote
i do not understand this auto retract whine.


it took skill to use real flaps, it would add another dimension to ahs ' "high fidelity air combat" , i know it does in other sims.

flying withought combat trim  in ah gives you an edge once you get some skill, auto retract flaps should be on the toggle "flight" as it would give you some sort of edge potentialy, but no more than what turning off combat trim does.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: dedalos on July 05, 2005, 10:31:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Mark II Gyro gunsite went into full scale production in late 43 and was being used by Spit drivers in 44

K-14 started showing up in the 51s in the late summer of 44.

Dan/CorkyJr


Isn't Levi and Morph using this sight right now?  I think yo can get it if you type .scrtcoad gunsight##453&%&4253## or something like that.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Morpheus on July 05, 2005, 11:18:34 AM
Levi sucks.

King Of suck.

I am the prince.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: slimm50 on July 05, 2005, 12:17:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fruda
unless you encounter a really good pilot at high altitude (and we know how rare that is in the MA).

That's because I don't have a subscription anymore:D
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Midnight on July 06, 2005, 11:49:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
i do not understand this auto retract whine.

if auto retract = bye bye

flaps = breaky breaky instead of retracty retracty.

what is so bad about it?


Auto-retracting flaps takes away the need for pilots to have the skill to know when to retract them. Currently, it's just too easy to get into a turnfight, and just keep hitting the flaps down button until the flaps go down, and then they just auto-retract again when your airspeed goes back up.. Too easy.

Some aircraft had safety features to prevent flap or gear deployment above certain airspeeds, others did not... having that be an automatic feature on all aircraft takes away adavantages that could merit perking.

Also, if a plane did not have automatic flaps, using them beyond their ratings should result in some sort of damage, either by jamming, or tearing away from the wing. In some cases, jamming could mean the actuator arm is not strong enough to hold the flap open, causing it to bend as the flap forced itself closed. Then the flap would still be on the wing, but would not be able to extend again do to the damaged actuator. It should really depend on the type of flap and the means of actuation it had on the actual plane.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Furball on July 06, 2005, 12:04:29 PM
ok.. i understand the point now.

although flap failure would undoubtedly be forewarned by a stressing sound like undercarriage, which would nearly eliminate the benefit of knowing the flap limits.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Clifra Jones on July 06, 2005, 03:03:15 PM
When I first started AH I was a bit surprised at the auto-retracted flaps. It was a feature I has not seen in other sims. I understand why it is there, good or bad.

Personally I would not mind having this removed as long as flap damage is modaled. It would have to be modeled for each aircraft as each aircraft has a different damage speed and damage type. Also it would have to be modalled as to whether the flaps are deployed above speed or if they are already deployed when damage speed is attained.

Also, if we have this can we have some of the other interesting flap features some planes had. For instance, the F4F's had a negative pressure flap actuator. The flaps would actually be actuated but if air speed was to high they would not extend, when air-speed was lowered to below deployment speed the flaps would extend.  Wildcat pilots used this "feature" as a rudementary form of automatic flaps when turn fighting Zekes. Set the flap lever to a few notches of flaps at hi-speed, the flaps would not deploy, get into a hard turn with a Zeke and when air speed reduced the flaps would deploy assisting the turn.

I read also that the 190s had some form of auto-flap system.

Question: Do we really want HTC spending the considerable amount of time it would take to COAD this?
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 06, 2005, 03:21:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Clifra Jones


Question: Do we really want HTC spending the considerable amount of time it would take to COAD this?




I would like to see the auto-retracting flaps removed and replaced with a flap modeling system that will (as realistically as possible) model damage to the flaps if you over extend their use by going beyond the limits.   Is this ever going to happen?  No, and it's not because of the rabid whine of Karnak and Kweassa but rather a simple matter of game play.  HiTech has already said that this feature was put in the game to make the curve easier for pilots so they wouldn't have to let stuff like flap management get in their way of fun.

Frankly, I just don't understand though why Karnak and Kweassa get their thongs in a bunch at the thought of a system that will penalize you for over extending the flaps beyond their limits.  I guess they just like to be coddled.


ack-ack
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: dedalos on July 06, 2005, 03:35:41 PM
Well, they would have to fix the flap damage model first.  When ever that happens.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: Kweassa on July 06, 2005, 09:43:13 PM
Rabid whine my prettythang.

 It is none other than HT himself who sees  through what lies behind you guys' version of "reasoning".

 Straight from the man himself;

Quote
On the auto retract flaps question, it seems to me that everone who wants to get rid of auto retract flaps wan'ts flaps at faster speeds. If we were to get rid of the auto retract flaps the only difference would be ,instead of retracting the flap it would be damaged and unsible at the same speed they auto retract now.

The other questions is on a specific planes flap speed, they are set on a per plane basis with the data we have availble.

- Hitech


 
 ... and ain't that the truth.
Title: Perk My Ride
Post by: 1K3 on July 06, 2005, 10:34:45 PM
How about N1K2-J with automatic extending flaps (all N1K2-Js have it in rl)? It needs to be modeled for the graphics mode.

Btw i think AH N1K2-J's turn rate FM is modeled based on the r/l N1K2-J with automatic extending flaps, which gives it a "UFO" characteristics.