Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKFokerFoder+ on July 07, 2005, 12:05:55 AM
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It would seem to me that most of the complaints to “Perk Plane X” or add more perk planes revolve around the desire to see more diversity in plane types in the Main Arena.
Although I do not have a solution, I do think that the problem is in fact plane diversity (or lack thereof) and it’s impact on overall game playability. It would therefore seem to me that it would be best to concentrate on strategies that would facilitate expanding the plane set that the player base would voluntarily use, rather than attack (perk) individual airplanes.
For instance, the C Hog was a very popular ride, so much so its usage caused a lot of player dissatisfaction. The C Hog was then mildly perked and its usage plummeted. While perking the C Hog did have the effect of reducing its usage, it did not have the overall effect of creating a more diverse plane set usage in the arena. It may even have had the effect of reducing the diversity.
Where I am going with this has to do with human nature. I was a former C Hog driver. I wanted a fast competitive ride. And the cannons on the Hog also made excellent GV killers. I killed many a Panzer (I am talking Panzer here, not Flack Panzer) with the hizookas of the Hog. That was before HT changed the damage model of the Panzer. The old panzers were sitting ducks for a C Hog. In air to air fighting the high speed handling characteristics of the Hog, along with flaps, etc made it an exciting ride. In short, I flew the C Hog because it was an easy to fly, relatively fast, and had a real mean guns package.
When we perked the Hog, I went to various other fast competitive planes. Like the LA7, and the PonyD. Why? Because they are easy to fly, and are fast, with good guns package. So the arena lost a C Hog, but gained a PonyD, and now I fly the Dora.
I wouldn’t doubt a lot of other former hog driver (if they are still in Aces High) also switched to other top planes in the not perked plane set. Thus we had more drivers in one less plane type.
I am not insinuating that we should unperk the C Hog.
What I am suggesting is that we consider more options in an attempt to create diversity in the arena than just perking a particular airplane.
What those options could possibly be are what I hope is discussed in this thread.
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RPS, Rolling Plane set for month
Week 1- 1939 to 1942 aircraft
Week 2- add 1942/43 aircraft
Week 3- add 1944 aircraft
Week 4- add 1945 aircraft
Im afraid the MA would not welcome this though.
It's the one thing i do miss the most from that other game
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Couldnt agree more.
I wonder if HT could code something that could count (somewhat like the ENY system) how many planes of each type are in the air at any given moment. Again, keeping with some sort of ratio or equation... that would give allow only a certain number of each type of plane in the air.
It could be dependent upon how many players are on at the time. Something like that...
This idea has been brought up before I think... something like this anywyas. I dont even know if I like it. But it would be/couuld be an alternative to perking.
I am sorry, but I disagree with a rolling plane set in the MA. It goes against everything that makes the MA what it is, and great.
That would be great for some other arena. What arena? I dont know. Just not the MA.
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CHog is so mildly perked I dont know how that is keeping anyone from flying them.
Hell if ya need more perks for a CHog just take a 109-f up for a couple flights
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Also, it is nice in the main arena to have the ability to fly anything so that you can practice for scenarios -- get flight time in on the plane you'll be flying, whatever it happens to be.
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I don't want diversity. I just wanna kill stuff.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Screw it all, take away all perk cost on craft save for the 163, 262, Ar234, and see how that goes. You'll get plane diversity.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
Screw it all, take away all perk cost on craft save for the 163, 262, Ar234, and see how that goes. You'll get plane diversity.
I stated the same basic thing in a post a few days ago. I don't believe any plane should be "perked" except the 163, 262 & 234.
I honestly don't believe it will make a difference in the "MA"
I know some people think that everyone and their brother will just fly Tempest's, Spit14's and TA152's all day but I don't think this is the case. People enjoy flying different types of A/C for all different reasons.
Case in point> tonight {7-6-05} four or five Knights were at a base and it was attacked by five LA7's. Of course this the plane that everyone jumps up and down about and screams bloody murder or calls it names.
They attacked the field, took out a few field ack and shot down a couple of low and slow planes. Fair attack, nothing new here, two were shot down by a squadie in a Flak, one augered and the other two were chased down and killed {if i remember correctly} bottom line, they didn't make it home.
I have yet to see an airfield be totally dominated from a few LA7's that are attempting a cap. Yes, their fast, so what, doesn't mean they can't be shot down or ganged up on or some other counter measure.
Same goes for other A/C in the game, the Typh, 190, G10, Spit, P51, P38..........all good planes for various duties. I highly doubt AKAK is gonna trade his 38 in because the Spit14 is now "unperked"
I know these guys that fly certain planes are very good in them, no doubt about it. I know they prob have a million perk points also. So why arn't they upping Spit14's all the time or TA152's ??
Point is, they don't up them because their "perked" they don't use them because they fly what thier good in or what they enjoy flying for whatever reason.
Again, my opinion, it's just like the child that you very seldom give candy to. If you make the candy=(perks) the issue, then that is where the attention is paid. If candy=(perks) is not made a big deal then the kid doesn't see it as anything big, it's just candy.
Just my 2 cents on this one
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If C-hog was now unperked, noone would fly it any more except D-hog guys---though it dives well, it's speed is only average, climbs like a stone, and down low it's LA-7 meat--guys who love that gun package drive the tiffie--rolls like chit, but an acceptable vulcher;
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How about this...
Each country gets 1 to 3 aircraft factories, depending on map size. These facs have manable ack guns. The plane type manufactured is based on the highest number of sorties flown by a specific plane type during the previous 24 hrs. Kill the factory and the plane...say an La7 is disabled from the arena for an hour or two.
my two cents
DmdMax
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Plane diversity isn't going to happen. You could remove the perks from every ride except the 262/163 and it would not change much. As MOIL said, players fly what they like, perk or no.
I see plenty of different planes. Just last nite we fought several Zekes along with the ussual La7s, 109's, 190s, f4Us, N1K2s, P51s, P47, etc., etc. I even occasionally see F4Fs, FM2s, Mossies, Ki84...
Sure you see more of some planes than others but that's just human nature and the nature of the MA.
I don't fly many perk planes because they don't offer me anything better than I can get from a non-perk plane for the common situation in the MA.
The MA is what it is. It will never be what you dream it to be. Frankly, a lot of us don't want it to be what some of you wish it to be.
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Perk them all!! except real early war stuff...so one can earn perk points.
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Originally posted by Cooley
RPS, Rolling Plane set for month
Week 1- 1939 to 1942 aircraft
Week 2- add 1942/43 aircraft
Week 3- add 1944 aircraft
Week 4- add 1945 aircraft
Im afraid the MA would not welcome this though.
It's the one thing i do miss the most from that other game
Maybe a rolling perk set. For example, in week 1, perk everything outside of 1939-42 and as the years become later and later, the perks become higher and higher. So, flying a 1945 aircraft in week 1 would cost you more than flying one in week 3.
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Cool ideas but . . .what is the best / most popular 1942/43 plane for example. Wouldn't most people end up flying that one? So, if diversity is what you are looking for, I don't think that will achieve it.
Honestly, I think most - not all - people complaining about the plane X (currently the LA7) is not because they seek diversity, they just seek more planes inferior to what they fly so they can kill them easylly. I looked up a few of the people complaining about plane X and most are D9 drivers and a few are almost never in a fighter. Think about it, if you are good and fly smart, what could possibly stop you if you are in a D9 or P51 or even a TYFFI?
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Originally posted by Cooley
RPS, Rolling Plane set for month
Week 1- 1939 to 1942 aircraft
Week 2- add 1942/43 aircraft
Week 3- add 1944 aircraft
Week 4- add 1945 aircraft
Im afraid the MA would not welcome this though.
It's the one thing i do miss the most from that other game
Isn't that the purpose of the CT? Why not try it there and see how it works out. If people like it they will come. If not, at least you gave it a go.
Just a suggestion but it seems the CT is the perfect arena in which to try out different setups and see how it works out and who favors it.
IMHO the perfect sounding board for player participation is here but the perfect test area is the CT. Why not set a thread so people could submit trial setups and see how it goes over.
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I could give a Rat's rump about diversity but I love the idea of placing aircraft factories in the rear areas of each combatant. That would even get my a** into a bomber. You capture the factory you get redundancy in your output - someone kills your Spit factory but you just captured a spare! Heck, have a factory for every late war plane in the game. If your in a Spit and your Spit factory gets flattened you better rearm instead of land or your plane gets put back into the pool for someone to grab.
This is a self managed "if you want it you got to fight for it" perk system. Imagine all the great hi-alt fights that will happen when you have to grab to 30K to fend off marauding hordes of enemy buffs hellbent on destroying your plane factory. We would see some different planes dominating the fight way up there for sure.
I'm here to tell you this idea would breathe life into the MA. I love it.
Magoo
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I remember a couple of players mention that HT added more weight (500lbs.) to the C-Hog around the time he perked it.
Anyone know if this was also done?
AmReo ..'MAW Consigliere'
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diversity = da more u try and perk things di verse it will get.....
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Ren
The Damned
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Originally posted by Sandman
Maybe a rolling perk set. For example, in week 1, perk everything outside of 1939-42 and as the years become later and later, the perks become higher and higher. So, flying a 1945 aircraft in week 1 would cost you more than flying one in week 3.
Hmm.. This is a new one to me, and something that I think is a good compromise... I'd like to see this one tried out.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Think about it, if you are good and fly smart, what could possibly stop you if you are in a D9 or P51 or even a TYFFI?
What stops you in A P-51D is trying to get the kill on the spit that drags you to the deck. Sure, you can kill him, but now you have burned all your E and are on the deck with 2 more spits flying at you.
I shoot fairly well (usually 10%+ HP), but with the new gun model, it is hard to kill a maneuvering fighter with one guns pass. Usually you end up having to chase them down to finish the job or you get no kill credits....
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Originally posted by Midnight
What stops you in A P-51D is trying to get the kill on the spit that drags you to the deck. Sure, you can kill him, but now you have burned all your E and are on the deck with 2 more spits flying at you.
:lol I said flying smart. Chasing Spit on the deck without the support of a horde, not smart :D
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Originally posted by Midnight
What stops you in A P-51D is trying to get the kill on the spit that drags you to the deck. Sure, you can kill him, but now you have burned all your E and are on the deck with 2 more spits flying at you.
I shoot fairly well (usually 10%+ HP), but with the new gun model, it is hard to kill a maneuvering fighter with one guns pass. Usually you end up having to chase them down to finish the job or you get no kill credits....
(you know I hate it when someone beats me to the puch. :mad: dedalos! jk)
Anyway, What does this have to do with the current discussion? You would want someone elses plane choices restricted because you fly into a crowd of spits in a p51 and get low and slow? Like Dedalos said, that ain't smart flying!
What's wrong with the gun model? You can rip a spitfire to pieces with 6 50s!
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FF, by your own statements, one could also say that the perking of the chog took all those pilots from 1 plane type and put them into 4 or 5 others. I would call that an increase in diversity. The chog didn't go away; it was never removed, and no one forced those guys into different planes. The simple truth is, you guys who switched weren't willing to risk even the token perk price to continue flying it. The diversity was always there, but the pilots limited it.
If everything is perked, everything will be flown as the few perkplanes are currently flown by the majority. To an old hand whose had an account for years, losing a few thousand perks in a week isn't a big deal. To a relative new comer with only a few hundred or thousand perks, losing all of them and being stuck in an a6m2 for most of a tour would not be all that fun.
Perking everything, or everything past year X, would only limit the newer players, not the vets. I know you guys want to face a bunch of n00bs in early war planes who can't put up much of a fight(well, I do anyway), but that would be both horribly unfair and an extremely bad business move for HTC.
I wanted to add, as the tone of the post seems stern, that I'm not trying to poopoo anyone's ideas. Nothing HTC can do will ever restore gameplay to the way it was in early AH1. The players could, at any time, forego the late war planes and start flying nothing but a6m2s. However, you can deduce that they don't want much diversity, they don't want to fly different planes. They want fast and well armed, and they want to fly in packs. Gameplay has never been up to HTC, its always been the community's responsibility. Remember when the ENY limiter was added to promote balance? What happened? 2 or 3 squads started rotating, and a few of the lone wolf types started moving around, but mostly we just got hordes of B ponies and 205s instead of Ds and 190s. Human nature is just that, and HTC can't change it with some lines of code. This is the path he chose for the game, and this is the one we followed him down.
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Originally posted by mojo55
I remember a couple of players mention that HT added more weight (500lbs.) to the C-Hog around the time he perked it.
Anyone know if this was also done?
AmReo ..'MAW Consigliere'
If I remember correctly, the weight wasn't added so much as corrected. The pre-perk Chog was 500 lbs. light.
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Divide the map into eras.
One corner for early war, one corner for later war. Also make some bases un-capturable.
I think the map could handle it.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Couldnt agree more.
I am sorry, but I disagree with a rolling plane set in the MA.
I think I missed something! :D
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All this talk about "Try it in the CT, or try it in a different arena" is crap. People play for numbers.
If Arena A has the set up exactly like Joe Bob loves, it will still never actually have Joe Bob in there if Arena B has 300 more people.
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I gotta back Cooley on this one...
I loved the RPS of WB2. It totally changed the way the game was played... strategy from week to week was completly contingent on the weapon technology at hand. Granted the first few day's were a total snooze fest, with little territory won or lost, but it certainly made you get creative when planning a mission...
Just my $.02
-dynamite