Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on July 08, 2005, 07:26:31 PM
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What do you think of coach shotguns, the 18-inch or 20-inch double barrel shotguns enjoying a revival in western style shooting events?
Talked with a guy today as he was buying a double barrel 20-inch, 12-gauge coach shotgun for his wife. They live in the mountains and are being bothered more and more by black bears.
They understand bears and don't intend to provoke them, but they also know you never know when you might be attacked for whatever reason.
He has other weapons, including pump shotguns, but says his wife needs something as simple and effective as possible for her defense in situations as basic as going out to her car when he is not around.
I'm thinking that for a lot of home defense situations, a double barrel 12-gauge coach shotgun might be ideal. Easy to safely store unloaded, easy to load even in the dark and while stressed, no safety per se since gotta (good grief, c--- is asterisked out) the hammers to fire, easy to reload as necessary.
Can load with anything from buckshot to deer slug or a two-shot combination. For a quick and safe grab of a lot of firepower for someone who doesn't shoot very often, is the coach shotgun the ultimate?
Where do you rank the coach shotgun as a home defense weapon?
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Depends on the person. Storing the gun unloaded, the SxS double barrel shotgun is faster and easier to load than any pump (unless you happen to be one of the speed shooters that use a 97 Winchester pump in cowboy action shooting). That alone makes it worthwhile as a home defense weapon. Dont get me wrong, I prefer the extra rounds of the pump, but if you need to be cocked and locked in a matter of seconds instead of tens of seconds, the SxS is perfect. Just dont pull both triggers at once. :)
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bah, if yer goin for the side by side forget the 12, buy the 20...its much prettier ;)
Theres something magical about a double 20
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In bear country this might be good medicine. Having a small ammo pack on the but of the gun is a good way to keep rounds handy but not in the gun. I am not in favor of shotguns in confined areas like you find in a home with halls and such. The spread factor with shot isn't great at short ranges under 20 yards even with open chokes so it's still easy to miss and for small folks recoil IS a bit of a pain. Given that it is bear protection and a shotgun with slugs is potent it is likely a good choice. I'd rather have a pump with the mag full but chamber empty.
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A set of Greeners. drooooooooooooool
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If you're buying a shotgun for looks buy a 20ga. If you are buying one to kill buy a 12ga. Just remember a shorter barrel means a more dispersed, shorter range shot. Unless you are using slugs.;)
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The coach gun has one BIG drawback for defense. Two shots before a reload, and a reload puts it completely out of action.
Recoil is quite stiff with full loads as well.
It will work in the hands of a skilled shooter, but it is questionable at best for the average person.
And I dearly LOVE a 12 gauge coachgun.
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One of the guys I used to goose hunt with used a 12 gauge 20 inch barrel and always dropped more geese than me with my 10 gauge 30" or my 12 gauge 28" choked.
For sheer elegance, I would go with a 20 gauge side by side with a 20" barrel.
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for bears plain and simple go with either a pump 12 guage 20" barrel with long magazine with hard slugs or a .357 revolver with hydro shoc or that size ilk.
I fear automatics in the wilderness. They are just too unreliable to trust your life with unless you intend to maintain them every day.
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Ah, nothing puts fear in the heart of an intruder like the sound of a pump shotgun jacking a round in the dark. It means only 1 of 2 things are going to happen next. He can run or die.
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There is something very scary (if you are not the one producing the sound) and very reassuring (if you are the one producing the sound) about a pump shotgun.
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home defense = mossberg 500 12ga with the plug out loaded with rifled slugs. them coach guns in 20ga sure are nice looking though.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
for bears plain and simple go with either a pump 12 guage 20" barrel with long magazine with hard slugs or a .357 revolver with hydro shoc or that size ilk.
I fear automatics in the wilderness. They are just too unreliable to trust your life with unless you intend to maintain them every day.
.357 over .45 LC? maybe on the smaller bears but on big western bears?
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For bear I think ANY expanding slug is a bad idea in a handgun. You want penetration to get through bone gristle and hide. An expanding bullet is too likely to stop before it penetrates to the vitals. A .357 with a hard cast 158 gr semi wadcutter is good IMO IF you are limiting yourself to a handgun and that is the most power you are accurate with.
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We hunt bear and hogs with handguns. We use Ruger and Dan Wesson revolvers, either 44 Magnum or 45 Colt. The most common loads are 300-360 grain hard cast lead bullets with a relatively large flat meplat, over copious amounts of H110 or WW296, with velocities ranging from 1200-1300 FPS.
We tried the jacketed 300 grain flat point and 300 grain jacketed hollow point, but the hardcast lead bullets seem to be more accurate, and surely give better velocity. The hollow point does expand, and that cuts down on penetration, which we prefer in bear abd hogs.
We've found that using the heavy bullets to smash through a shoulder or the base of the skull to anchor the critters quicker. Chest shots through the heart and lungs usually take MUCH longer to kill both bears and hogs, leaving them up, running, and dangerous. I saw a hog shot through the heart and one lung with a 30-06 180 grain run for a very long time and distance, and he was on his feet grunting at us when we caught him SEVERAL minutes later. He turned to run, and I shot him in the shoulder and he never moved again. I walked up and put a round in the base of his skull.
You'd be surprised at the recoil. While there is serious recoil, it is more of a slow, smooth, heavy push as opposed to a sharp snapping twist. I find them VERY enjoyable to shoot.
For deer we use 180 grain jacketed hollow cavity bullets in the 44 Magnum, at 1700-1800 feet FPS, with H110 or WW 296 powder. The deer loads don't work as well on hogs, but will work. They've even killed a bear or two, but they are not nearly so effective. The bear/hog loads work on deer, but there is not nearly enough exit wound or blood trail. The deer loads have a MUCH sharper recoil, but they do make a real cool screaming noise like the sound effect for the German tank guns from the older World War II movies.
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Originally posted by storch
home defense = mossberg 500 12ga with the plug out loaded with rifled slugs. them coach guns in 20ga sure are nice looking though.
Slugs are VERY dangerous in home defense, they penetrate ANY interior home building material. So long as you have no other family and pet to worry about hitting, you're okay. I saw a 12 gauge Foster slug go through THREE sheetrock walls inlcuding two 2x4's edge wise and still go through a refridgerator.
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One of my favorite 12ga shells are the slugs I picked up at a gun show. Each shell has 2 slugs that are connected with 12ft of piano wire. Awesome.:cool:
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And illegal as hell.
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Illegal to hunt with, but that's not their purpose.;)
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I own two Coach Shotguns a 12 gauge and a .410 both are fun to shoot and easy to load in a hurry. I have several others and keep the 12 bedside with shells near by.
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Originally posted by rpm
One of my favorite 12ga shells are the slugs I picked up at a gun show. Each shell has 2 slugs that are connected with 12ft of piano wire. Awesome.:cool:
Sometimes killin' just ain't enough. For best results, harmonize your sights with a tuning fork.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Slugs are VERY dangerous in home defense, they penetrate ANY interior home building material. So long as you have no other family and pet to worry about hitting, you're okay. I saw a 12 gauge Foster slug go through THREE sheetrock walls inlcuding two 2x4's edge wise and still go through a refridgerator.
don't miss :aok
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They over penetrate PEOPLE too.
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A 12 guage Coach would be a pretty fair choice for either situation, the only accomodation would be the load.
As stated, you can use slugs for bear, and around the house, #6 shot would discourage the heck outta a home intruder without the overpenetration of more serious loads. Double 00 buckshot is a very good self defense load, and will kill a person quite well if that is your intention, but will have more wall penetration capability.
Probably one of the better choice for a self-defense weapon if someone doesnt want to spend the time to become an experienced shooter, but no matter, whoever is planning to be able to use it, they must be familiar with it and have had some practice.
dago
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
They over penetrate PEOPLE too.
I think this one could win for understatement of the year. :)
Shoot an intruder with a 12 ga. slug, watch a nice round 1 inch hole appear in him, watch the same hole appear in the wall behind him, in the next wall behind that one, through the picture window in your living room, through the windsheild of your car, through the backseat and MAYBE stop in the trunk.
Ok, that may be an exaggeration, but not by much.
Originally posted by Dago
A 12 guage Coach would be a pretty fair choice for either situation, the only accomodation would be the load.
As stated, you can use slugs for bear, and around the house, #6 shot would discourage the heck outta a home intruder without the overpenetration of more serious loads. Double 00 buckshot is a very good self defense load, and will kill a person quite well if that is your intention, but will have more wall penetration capability.
Probably one of the better choice for a self-defense weapon if someone doesnt want to spend the time to become an experienced shooter, but no matter, whoever is planning to be able to use it, they must be familiar with it and have had some practice.
dago
IMO, 00 Buck is the best home defense round ever made. Lots of folks would disagree with that I'm sure. By the same token, I'm a big fan of Glaser bullets in handguns for home defense, while others disagree there too. Like Dago and some of the others said, slugs (like hi-power hunting rifle rounds) are designed to penetrate the heavy muscle and bone mass of a large animal like deer or bear. They arent designed for wimpy creatures like us.
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For shotguns I like a pump.. the 97 or 12 winchester are very reliable. I have two 97's
#4 buck is the new hot setup for defense.
lazs
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Originally posted by Halo
Where do you rank the coach shotgun as a home defense weapon?
Originally posted by rpm
Ah, nothing puts fear in the heart of an intruder like the sound of a pump shotgun jacking a round in the dark. It means only 1 of 2 things are going to happen next. He can run or die.
Originally posted by storch
home defense = mossberg 500 12ga with the plug out loaded with rifled slugs.
Originally posted by lazs2
#4 buck is the new hot setup for defense.
We haven't had a "gun thread" in a while. Hope these are still allowed.
I've made some quotes above - I find it rather sad that you guys feel the need to arm yourselves against external threat. The burning question is... what is it that you're so afraid of? OK, I know that criminals can get guns easily in the US - is that it? I lie in bed in my sleepy three horse town most nights, and the only sound I'll hear is jets overhead, on final approach to the busiest airport in the world. I like it - it reminds me that I'm free. If ever I felt that I had to turn my home into an armed fortress, that would be the day when I'd look for somewhere else to live.
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beetle..when will u understand...cops dont show up till after a crime has been commited on you and your family..especially in some small podunk craker town..
Those are great places to go rob people
No one is afraid..Its called PEACE OF MIND...
Id rather be caugth with then without.
As easy acces to guns..yes we do..So..if a guy breaks into your house..or assaults your loved ones..he has to have a gun to be a threat?..lmfao..Im sure you can defend your family with your quick wit.......errrrr
You bettr get a gun..lololololollo
gusn are the great equalizer..especialy for weaklings or women...liek tomato...Just think if she was able to defend herself against a large man twice her size..You think she coudl use her fist?..No..She should have at MINIMUM..Pepper spray..A sharp objetc..knife ect..Or.....be trained with a revolver...That will stop rapes...beatings..ect
And yes we know not all folks can handle the responsibilty of fire arms.. for defense...those folks are what we call.....part of the "natural selection" process
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
beetle..when will u understand...cops dont show up till after a crime has been commited on you and your family..especially in some small podunk craker town..
GC Maybe I'll never understand. I live in a "small podunk craker town", and have done for 23 years. No-one has a gun here, and there's never been a gun homicide since I've lived here. There are no monsters out there that I know of, and we rest easy at night.
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beetle... if I had the choice of living on your island and never having a gun again or living in the U.S. and having to use one several times in my life....
Given all the other plus and minus features of both countries...
I would at least 100 times still rather live in the U.S. I can think of no feature of england that is better than the U.S. for me.
I will simply have to live in the place that I love to live and put up with the "fear".
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I can think of no feature of england that is better than the U.S. for me.
lazs
I'm in England. That should be good enough.
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Not sure I understand this.... in switzerland every closet has a.... a... "machine gun" an "assault weapon" a "bad ju ju stick" a aaaaa GUN!
Everyone is in the militia and prepared for an attack that may never come. First.... there are no problems with the firearms that are worth talking about... second... are these people "paranoid" and not enjoying life like the brits do? When I was in england every where I went were warnings about thieves and pickpockets... no one would leave antyhing valuable on the floor of the theatre they were in...
Brits seemed to be the most parnoid of all the people I have ever met... they seemed to be in constant fear of a crime happening... so much so that they don't even appear to notice anymore.
lazs
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lol furball...Lazs..he got you thee..
Beetle..
i live in a craker podunk town called loomis..even smaller then podunk craker town Dixon..like lAzs
So you skipped right over my point..but thats typical of a gun hater
YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN TO THREATEN/KIll someone
So..Please..Im sure there has been soem vilonce in your town..just becuase its not with a gun doesnt mean you dont have the rigth to defend yourself with one..
Even if you a "slim " guy came after me with a knife..Id pull my firarm on you..As soon as You violate my rights to live in peace..you give any of your rights...I will defend myself....
and dam..its like talking to a kid...Id rather be caught with ..then with out...
Do you have medical insurance?..car insurance?....think about it..its the same thing
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btw...
sorry about Hi jack..
Beetle...shouldnt you be locked out of this thread?..NO HIJAKING..
we are talking about Shotguns and differnt types./rounds
If you wan tto discuss practcial use..start your own Holy Crusader thread
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
Beetle...shouldnt you be locked out of this thread?..NO HIJAKING..
See Rule #6
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furball is a cute little fellow for a brit but...
he does suffer from socialist dentistry and the british version of sunshine.
(means he looks like a zombie who just finished a meal)
lazs
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Nobody ever accused me of jumping to conclusions, so after a year of research (okay, not continuously, more like resumed), I bought a 12-gauge Stoeger coach gun supreme.
Very sweet look and feel. I'll take it to the range this week and look for optimum patterns around 7 and 15 yards. Should be fun for skeet and trap too, with right barrel improved cylinder choke optimized at 30 yards and left barrel modified choke optimized at 35 yards.
Never shot much with shotguns, but Google research convinces me No. 1 buckshot is primo home defense load closely followed by 00 buckshot. For skeet and trap (actually informal foot launcher at farm) will use No. 8 birdshot (Winchester AA low noise low recoil target load).
Should be fun.
Actually, thinking about previous home defense setups, I'm amazed I didn't go 12-gauge shotgun years ago. Probably the world's most used and versatile gun as well as among the most lethal. Main thing is double barrel is ultra safe and easy to load and use even in the darkest of night and worst of situations.
I had a little 410 Mossberg home defense shotgun but I could never get as confident with pump loading and safety.
Incidentally, TopShot by HeadGames is a great computer shooting program that helped me do okay first time I shot real skeet.
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
bah, if yer goin for the side by side forget the 12, buy the 20...its much prettier ;)
Theres something magical about a double 20
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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bettle (hehe) don't be a tard. The original poster was clearly concerned about bears increasingly infringing on his property.
If you want to be sad about something, be sad about how you feel compelled to jump into every gun discussion and start spouting your pacifist nonsense.
Really.
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eagl,
beetle is gone, no loss there. Those posts of his in this thread are from a year ago.
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I'm not surprised to see Beetle PNG'ed, but Lizking? WTH did he do to get PNG'ed? I'd noticed I hadn't seen him post in a long time, but this suprises me.
culero
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Heh, who's the tard that resurrected a July 2005 thread? Oh yea, thanks Halo :( Someone call the MPs :furious
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Originally posted by eagl
Heh, who's the tard that resurrected a July 2005 thread? Oh yea, thanks Halo :( Someone call the MPs :furious
Oh now come on. Since Halo started the thread to start with, he has the right to dig it up. Especially since this was a continuation (or perhaps just the ending) of his original post.
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I think Halo did it on purpose. See, he tricked Laser and I into knee-jerk counter-posts against previous tardness. That kind of thing is sneeky and had to be deliberate.
I mean really, who digs up a post exactly one year later to brag about how it took them exactly one year to shop for a shotgun?
Deliberate I tell you, deliberate! That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
BTW my wife wants to know if the Coach shotguns come with matching purses. :huh
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beet... You allways accuse people who arm themselves of being paranoid.
You ask "why oh why would you live in fear and not love?"
Well.... You wear seatbelts... they are a pain. Your chance of being violently attacked in your life is about 1 in 4 england or U.S.
Your chance of getting into a car wreck where a seatbelt will be of any help to you is many times less than that of an attack. My seatbelt won't protect my family...
My 357 weighs 12 oz or, about what a cell phone weighs. It is no bother at all... my 45 with nightsights sits right on my nightstand with no problem whatsoever... It doesn't hinder my movement or chafe my neck.
soooo.... who is paranoid here?
lazs
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Well, I got caught. Didn't think to check the date, even though I don't remember this thread starting.
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If such is the case then I applaud Halo for a job well done. :aok
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Originally posted by lazs2
(means he looks like a zombie who just finished a meal)
lazs
i would be surfing the AH BBS looking for brains to eat, but i know that it is a waste of time... :D
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Originally posted by Furball
i would be surfing the AH BBS looking for brains to eat, but i know that it is a waste of time... :D
on the other hand if you were looking for crap to eat you could just go to your squad bbs and eat a small country's fill. just saying. :aok
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do you spend your day just going around and looking for threads which BK's just posted in?
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yes ma'am some days I do. why do you ask?
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storch is the guy I never like to talk to... He has no sense of humor but feels he has a highly developed one.
He is one person who can keep me from retorting tho.... it is just embarassing to be in the same thread. There is no good answer to his 4th grade "I know you are but what am I" style.
just participating lowers your IQ 5 points. What works with my grand daughter is to ignore that type of arguement... I should do the same here but.... hearing it from a supposedly grown man is disconcerting. Even for me.
lazs
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Originally posted by Halo
What do you think of coach shotguns, the 18-inch or 20-inch double barrel shotguns enjoying a revival in western style shooting events?
Talked with a guy today as he was buying a double barrel 20-inch, 12-gauge coach shotgun for his wife. They live in the mountains and are being bothered more and more by black bears.
2-barrel 12 will be ok not only against bears :) If to discuss about 20 inch or 18.... Really it's not very important when you shooting bullets. Anyway, it will be effective on 20-30 meters and not more. The muzzle length and it's narrow is important only for case-shot and barley-corn(? in russian it's "drob'"). In this case it's a usual self-defence shotgun. So, something easy, without triggers and with cylindrical drilling will be enough.
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Er, ahem, you gotta admit I have perseverence since this thread was highjacked in more directions than a totally unchoked 12-gauge (okay, admittedly a severely strained simile, analogy, whatever).
Point being, home defense is a serious issue and I wanted to learn and share whatever merits a coach shotgun might have for the Aces High community.
So bear (good pun) with me a moment while I share a few things some of you may not know. I was always a rifle and pistol guy. Never had any use for shotguns (because I haven't hunted since I was kid). I did finally buy a Mossberg 410 security shotgun for my wife, for Christmas yet, but that went over like a leadshot balloon (fortunately I also bought her a necklace -- I am trainable).
The 410 was okay. The sales lit compared it to a .38 pistol and showed how much more powerful the 410 was. Plus the intimidating factor of the pump sound and the generally mean look of the little shotgun.
But ... it was NOT a 12-gauge, the king of the mountain.
I never even heard of a coach shotgun until I watched a big burly guy in a Marine Corps BX buy one for his wife. She needed something simple, safe, and deadly because a bear was hanging around her house on a nearby little mountain, and she had to get to her car in the morning by herself after her husband left earlier for a longer commute.
So I spent a lot of time Googling and talking to gun shop people and gun enthusiasts, and found immense respect for the simple but deadly double barrel 12-gauge coach shotgun (18 and a half inch barrel).
My son-in-law brought one to his farm one day and we shot some clay pigeons with it. We shot some more with my little 410. Both were okay, but the coach 12-gauge was much more impressive.
Since then I find the 12-gauge shotgun is maybe the world's most popular gun and probably the most powerful routine home defense gun.
Like some other shooters, I find the semi automatic and pump actions less safe and more bother, especially fumbling around in the dark in a home defense situation.
I think a double barrel 12 gauge has plenty of firepower for most situations, and it's easy and safe to use and reload quickly. Like all shotguns, it's also easy to load shells of different power too if you want.
Today I went to a local indoor range and shot my Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme for the first time. It was delightful and awesome. Totally natural feeling and handling. And so powerful that I really hope I never have to point it at any living creature.
As you probably know, a standard shotgun test is 70% of the shot in one shell hitting within a 30-inch target at 40 yards. That's hunting criteria rather than the much shorter home defense ranges of about 7 to 15 yards.
To test my shotgun's patterns, I shot and marked a 14x18-inch target for first the right barrel and then a fresh target for the left barrel. My right barrel has an Improved Cylinder choke maximizing hit pattern at 30 yards; the left barrel has a Modified choke maximizing at 35 yards.
Those are clay pigeon ranges. Some people don't realize that contrary to popular delusion, shotguns still have to be aimed: they don't just obliterate everything 10 feet around.
Still, these chokes are fine for home defense. I recorded both barrel performances with different loads at 7 and 15 yards, typical home defense ranges. And every shot was lethal, no doubt about it.
I started out with light birdshot (No. 8) loads to get an idea how the coach shotgun would do for clay pigeon shooting. There are 410 pellets in No. 8 birdshot, and needless to say the targets were peppered at those close home defense ranges.
They were also peppered at the end of the indoor range, about 30 yards.
The birdshot was particularly delightful because it was Winchester AA Low Noise Low Recoil Shotshell. Rather pleasant to shoot, actually.
But birdshot has too little penetration for serious home defense. Gotta go to buckshot loads for that.
Then I got serious testing the home defense loads. First what many consider the best home defense shotgun load: No. 1 buckshot.
Although my coach shotgun accepts 3-inch shells, on the recommendation of many sources I stuck with lower recoil 2 3/4-inch shells in all sizes. I'm glad I did -- no way I need more juice than 2 3/4.
Incidentally, the Stoeger is a hammerless with two triggers and a safety (push forward for off) right behind the lever that opens the barrels -- excellent convenience, safety, versatility, and intuitive handling.
Each Remington No. 1 Buckshot has 16 pellets. I shot fairly fast, aiming quickly with the stock tucked tightly against my shoulder. At 7 yards, all 16 pellets from each barrel hit the target, most in the center, within a 7-inch diameter.
At 15 yards, all 16 pellets again hit, this time within a 9-inch diameter. The right barrel was mostly in the center and down; the left barrel was more to the upper left. Do you think I was flinching on the second shot? Could be.
With Federal Premium 00 Buckshot, the 12 pellets nearly obliterated the bullseye at 7 yards from the right barrel, and all 12 were almost as tight but slightly left with the left barrel. All pellets were within a 4-inch diameter.
At 15 yards, all 12 pellets from the 00 Buckshot again were dead center with the right barrel, but up and to the left with the left barrel. Normally jerking the trigger pulls shot down and left, so not sure what's going on with up and left unless I'm really flinching and almost trying to get away from the second shot. All pellets were within an 8-inch diameter.
Contrary to what I read about at least one source (the International Wound Ballistics Association) advocating the No. 1 buckshot as the premier home defense load, I'm more impressed with the slightly larger and more concentrated 00 Buckshot load. Surprisingly, in the article, the No. 1 Buckshot supposedly was more lethal than both 00 and 000 Buckshot.
Granted, four more pellets in the No. 1's slightly wider radius probably is better, and supposedly all three top loads can penetrate 12 inches of the test goop that simulates flesh and bone, so lethality is not a question with any of No. 1, 00, or 000.
Basically, it comes down to this: At 7 yards, most or all pellets hit within a seven-inch diameter with No. 1 Buckshot and within a four-inch diameter with 00 Buckshot; at 15 yards, most or all pellets hit within a nine-inch diameter with No. 1 Buckshot and within an eight-inch diameter with 00 Buckshot.
Therefore, every reasonably aimed and fired No. 1 or 00 Buckshot presumably would have stopped most any intruder up to 15 yards away (and undoubtedly farther) with the equivalent of quite a few submachine bullets hitting within a diameter of four to nine inches.
So, I hope this isn't more than you wanted to know about penguins. The more I read about shotguns, especially 12 gauge, the more fascinated I became, to the point I wondered why I ever considered anything else as the ultimate home defense gun.
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Most people whine and whine about the recoil of a shotgun. Any of my 3 shotgun's (2 pumps, one over and under) recoil doesn't even compare to most of my major rifles.
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They have pads to reduce recoil but i'm not sure if they work or not. I heard a "light load" shotgun is good for home protection, but again, i've no experience.
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I'm too dang lazy to read this whole thread..but I think a shotgun is the best home defense weapon period. Load it up and just point it in the general direction of the bad guy. :-)
Plus there is the psychological aspect of the sound of a pump shot gun being racked that has a tendency to get people's attention.:eek:
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I live in a small cracker town and about everyone here has at least 1 gun. I have one gun just 10 feet from where I am right now
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MY norinco 97 pump gun is very reliable and has the most spread I have ever seen. A 30" circle for 00 buck at 25 feet is normal for it. You couldn't hit skeet with it unless you shot em 15' out. The patterns are pretty uniform tho. It is more point and shoot than any shotgun I have ever shot and... the Model 97 is a great idea for a pump.
It is short and handy with a sturdy butt plate and stock and it has an exposed hammer so you know if it is ready to go or not. It is one of the most reliable actions ever. Easy to load single rounds and does not suffer from "short stroking" like a lot of pumps.
It even has a bayonet if all else fails.
Still.... It is not what I want for home defense. It sits in my safe.
My Kimber 45 with 9 rounds of hydroshoks sits on the nightstand. That or my cut down ruger Redhawk in 4" and 44 mag loaded with hydroshoks or my Smith J frame scandium 12 oz gun with 5 rounds of 125 grain federal hollow points.
lazs
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All this talk about shotguns made me go out and buy one today.:p
I bought a Spartan (by Remington) short coach gun. (They make a longer version..but I wanted the shorty). I paid $300.00 cash and unpacked it out of the box...came with 2 full chokes and they also threw in 4 boxes of shells.. 2 boxes of Super X 000 buck and 2 boxes small game load.
Now I gotta go kill some paper bad guys after work tomorrow with it. :D
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Congrats, shooter. I'm still enjoying the heck out of my Stoeger Coach Shotgun Supreme.
To keep the fields as pristine as possible on my son-in-law's farm, I'm getting a case of biodegradable clay pigeons. Hard to find. Gotta drive about 30 miles to a Gander Mountain store.
For skeet shooting, been investigating steel shot and other alternatives to lead shot. Required for most waterfowl, and some upland ranges. Very expensive, about four times more than lead shot, but ecology often is pricey.
Wimped out and bought Limbsaver slip-on recoil pad (medium size).
After all this immersion in loads and velocities and stopping power, I'm still delighted in the coach shotgun as a near perfect home defense gun and a fun plinker when you can find a skeet range or target range that allows them.
The coach shotgun is too short barrelled to be allowed in the nearest trap and skeet range around here. The local firing range allows shotguns but not steel shot which ricochets too much.