Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on July 09, 2005, 02:32:35 AM
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Hello,
I think I'm gonna be getting one sometime over the next year. It would be used for target shooting, I really dont think I will need it for defense or concealed carry. I am not intersted in revolvers.
What are the good ones?
Here is what I know from my limited gun firing experience.
40 vs 9mm: 40 seems to be all the rage the last few years. I have fired both 40 and 9mm and dont remember too much difference in recoil.
Glocks: Dont like the feel and I really get distracted by the trigger safety as I go to shoot. Plus I hear some worries about the trigger safety. But its very coomon so I wanna give it some consideration.
Beretta: Really love the feel of the 92/96FS in my hand, love the looks too. It would be my emotinal choice. But I hear some bad stories about reliabilty.
Sig: I think I may have fired a P226 once, I liked it and it shot very accurately. I hear very good things about them.
Any cooments on those guns or other brands? Advice please. :)
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If you want to shoot a Sig220 in .45 I can take ya anytime.
I like .45 over 9MM personaly. Target masters lets you rent all kinds of guns as well.
I also have an old tuned 1911 as well. (I have more but they are in WA state with the X)
:eek:
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I used to like my Glock.. never failed me. Not the most exciting weapon perhaps but i never had a problem with it. I used to carry it loaded alot for a couple of years and its not heavy at all. I could never hit anything with it at the 200 m range ;) so it may not be the most accurate weapon, but at close range its ok.
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I prefer .45 (1911), but also own a H+K USP .40 that I love almost as much. It is a great gun and if you are going .40 I recommend it. I fired the Sig in .40S&W and couldn't get over how accurate it was. I don't think you can go wrong with a Sig.
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I carry a Sig 226 .40 at work, and have shot a 9mm quite a bit as well. You're right, there's not much difference in recoil. I love the 226, and will probably buy one just for fun someday. It's an excellent gun that's never given me any problems with thousands of rounds through it.
When I bought my Sig 239, I went with .40 but also seriously considered a 9mm due to ammo cost. If caliber isn't that big an issue, 9mm might be the way to go for that reason.
Not a fan of Beretta at all. The thing just feels like a piece of junk, not to mention shoots like it (for me). I don't like glocks much either (don't like the trigger and not being able to see a hammer on the back), but I'd prefer them over the Berettas any day.
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If target shooting is your intention you may want to consider a Kimber in either the .40, or .45.
Patches
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I have two .40 S&W pistols. an H&K USP and a S&W 411. I like them both but the H&K is far more accurate. I used to carry the S&W.
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I used to have a Glock 23 as a backup to my 1911 .45. Was a real nice point-n-shoot weapon out to 20-25yds or so. Only problem I ever had with it was pulling the rear sight off.. it was a raised, extended sight and real easy to snag on something. Never bothered putting it back, and didn't need it on the gun.
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Grun,
I've fired .40 glocks, 9mm Taurus and .40 Taurus. I made my decision on the .40 Taurus. Its literally a good bang for your buck. Go to an indoor range that sells guns and they should let you fire a few rounds, up here they usually have about 50 guns that you can rent out.
The .40 caliber muzzle velocity is more than the .45 and less than the 9mm. It almost carries the punch of the .45 with way less recoil. Its sort of the best of both worlds (9mm and .45)
FWIW, I picked up my Taurus S&W .40 cal large frame for $400. Anyone know why Taurus is allowed to use S&W in its firearm name???)
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S&W makes top quality autos. you can't go wrong with them, very dependable.
the Sigs pretty much 'top of the line', the only downside is you could own a pair of the smiths for the price of the Sig.
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My favorite pistol I've ever owned was a Ruger .41 Mag Blackhawk. Accurate, uber deadly, classic looks and fun to shoot.
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If your interested in a .40 you might consider a Colt Delta Elite 10mm. Beautiful ballistics and a nice weapon.
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There are lots of things to consider when buying a new pistol.
Since you've decided that you want it for target practice, caliber isn't as important unless you're using it for competition. The lower caliber ammo obviously costs less than the higher. My 9mm ammo is half the price of my .45. I shoot at least 200 rounds at the range, at least once a week, usually more. That's over $50 for .45.
That being said, I enjoy my .45 far more than my 9mm. I find them more fun to shoot and more accurate. If you don't mind the extra cost, or if you plan to reload, get the .45. Specifically, get the P220 or a 1911, in that order. Ruger also makes a decent pistol, but I prefer Sig Sauer.
Strangely enough, I don't own a Sig Sauer 9mm. I wasn't sure if I'd like 9mm so I went out and bought a new (inexpensive) S & W SW9VE. The trigger was really hard until I broke it in, but now I don't mind it. I'd get one again since they are so inexpensive, but my first choice would definitely by Sig.
The caliber has a lot to do with the recoil, but it's not the only thing. My Sig recoils less than my S&W. Why? Because it's heavier, the barrel is longer, and the rails are full length. The rails on a Sig go the full length of the frame. That results in a smoother, more accurate pistol.
So, when you go pistol shopping, remember: The best pistol I've ever carried is the Sig Sauer P220. Two Tone is pretty sharp, but you can get it blued or in stainless.
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Heckler & Koch, Glock or Sig would get my nod. I shoot a USP .45.
Karaya
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Since you specified target shooting over all else I have a couple recoendations.
For right out of the box you can't beat a Kimber for features and accuracy with no extra tuning. It l;ikely will shoot far better then you are capable of.
If not a Kimber then get a 1911 pattern auto and have it tuned up for you. If you can find a less expensive one like a Springfield you'll save bucks in cost and it can be tuned us just as far as any Colt or Kimber.
If cost is a consideration for ammo the 9mm is by far cheaper and available in bulk for more savings. The most expensive is likely the .40 followed by the .45 ammo. If you reload, it's a moot point as they will all be far cheaper than any manufactured loads. You can save even more with hard cast slugs in all of them. I know Glock and other brands with polygonal rifling do not recomend cast but I've never had a problem with hard cast.
I don't think the .45 is inherrantly more accurate than the .40 as the feed ramp chamber and barrel have more impact there than the calliber. If you get a great chamber and barrel all will shoot better than you can hold.
It also depends on what kind of target shooting you are going to do. For informal any caliber will do, just have dun. If it's paper the .45 is more common and the "toys" to tune with are more available too. If it's "combat" competition then a "major" caliber like the .45 or .40 will help you there especially on steel poppers.
Lots to consider so you have to narrow down what you want.
IMO the Glock is a dandy firearm in 9mm or .40 as I have both callibers in them. I also have a S&W in .40 but it's not as common on the range to see them and there are far fewer folks "tuning" them than any Colt or clone.
Have fun experimenting and keep it safe. :aok
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With all of the weight that you’ve lost, do you think that you can handle such a big gun?
eskimo
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Originally posted by rpm
My favorite pistol I've ever owned was a Ruger .41 Mag Blackhawk. Accurate, uber deadly, classic looks and fun to shoot.
I knew a guy from Ohio that hunted deer with one of those and said it was better than anything else he had ever used. Had never heard of it before or since that one time/year. How common are they and how expensive is the ammo? Whats the recoil like (compared to a .45 / .44 mag / .357 mag? Was wanting to get something for deer in the next few years and this may be the way to go.
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I am confindent you would be happy with the SIG P226 in .40.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
dago
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41 Magnum recoil is usually about 2/3 of the way from 357 to 44.
There is not much choice in bullets for the 41, and even less choice in factory ammo. Everyone I know with a 41 (BOTH of them:D) rolls their own.
Loaded ammo for any of the hunting class Magnums is around $1 a round here. Finding 41 is like finding uranium. There just ain't none. Expect to special order it unless you just find a place that just happens to carry it, or will stock it for you.
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Derelict,
Recoil and especially felt recoil is a factor of the fit of the weapon to the shoter. The grip has a dramatic impact on it depending on what it is made of and how it fits your hand. I think the old S&W square grip is about a poor design in a hadgun as you can get. The round but pachmeyers make my 2.75" model 66 positively tame with mangum loads. The same with the 6" model 28 and pachmeyers.
There is a rather definite defference in the .357 vs the .44. The .45 in ACP (auto) has less recoil IMO than the .357 does.
This is an area where it is best to go to soem range that will let you shoot different models of handguns and decide on your own which you really like to shoot.
As far as deer are concerned a .357 is a bit light but doable for closer range hunting. Use solids or hard cast hollow points with a heaqvy for caliber slug like the 158 gr. in a semi wadcutter design.
It depends on the range. For Western deer you will be taking long shots and I think the Thompson Contenders in a rifle caliber are the way to go. If you are shooting under 100 yards, a GOOD revolver in any magnum from .357 through .44 will do. IF you can hit inside a 6" to 8" target reliably at that range. You have a duty to the animal to dispatch it cleanly and minimize a chance of losing it.
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If you want a 40 Short & Weak, I'd suggest a Sig or an H&K. Yes, they are more expensive, but the tend to be FAR more reliable and more accurate out of the box. Gunsmithing to fix a goofy acting gun can get REAL expensive.
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H+K .40 USP no other choices.
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I got a stainless beretta .40. I like it for a couple of reasons. It's big enough that it doesn't twist in my hand like smaller autos do. It's reliable enough for me, since I've never had a mis-fire or mis-feed even with the beat up 9mm berettas I qualify with in the military. My practice with the .40 directly crosses over to the weapon I have to qual with in the USAF. It field-strips and cleans easily and quickly without tools.
Downsides - it's a bit heavy if you hang it on a crummy belt, and I've heard that there is a part or two that may break if heavily used or abused. I haven't had mine break and I try not to abuse it, so YMMV.
On a plus side, from a generic spade holster I can rapidly draw from a "hands up" stance, fire without aiming, and bounce/hit a tin can at 25 ft so you might say I'm comfortable handling it. It's safe enough that we carry them loaded, off safe, and ready to fire whenever we carry at work.
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Ok so here is what I'm thinking so far.
Beretta 96 Stainless
Sig P226 & Family
HK USP
What about the Sig Pro?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Ok so here is what I'm thinking so far.
Beretta 96 Stainless
Sig P226 & Family
HK USP
What about the Sig Pro?
Here's a good forum to ask about sigs. (http://sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x)
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Owned a Ruger .44 Mag Super Blackhawk for a year back in the 80's. Loved that gun. Had to give it back :(
I've hunted upon occasion with the old man's S&W .44 mag and didn't like it, even with the pacmire(sp?) grips. Too short a barrel, and threw the rounds everywhere. Never hunted with a .357 though the one person I know that does says it just aint enough unless you get really close and hit really well. Shot a friends Colt 45 a few times at the range back in late '90's.. Was a sweet gun, but I don't think it would take down a deer without a really well placed shot.
I'd kinda figured that the .41 was a rare bird. But this dude from Ohio just raved about it like it was the cat's meow :) I'd be reloading myself so that wouldn't bother me much about the ammo cost. And it sound's like it should do well on PA Whitetail...may have to see if I can find one. Thanks.
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For my money, even though I dont own one, I'd go with a Sig. I know several guys that have them. Everyone who owns one swears by it, and I trust the word of guys who depend on guns every day.
While I love my Para .40, I don't recommend it for someone who doesn't have a bit of tinkerer/gunsmith in them. It comes a bit rough on the feed ramp from the factory (at least with the loads I shoot), and needs to be broken down and have some "cleaning up" done on the lip of the ramp. It does have a great feel in the hand though, and Para's safety system is great.
Taurus is also a great gun, very solid and very reliable, and again a great safety system. I dont own any shell chuckers in this brand, but I've shot a few. They handle recoil well. A bit awkward in my hand, but I think the newer ones have fixed that.
Kimber was suggested, and they do incredible things with the .45. I'm sure they make a good .40 as well. I know a couple of guys with Kimber's, but they are hardcore competition nuts too. I do know their guns will take alot of abuse and still function.
However.
I would NOT recommend any modified 1911s. There are plenty out there with modified triggers, lighter springs, whatever. This gun is VERY good for what it was designed for. Killing people in combat situations. A new one (read "stock") is ok, and they are fun to shoot in target/competition situations. I would never suggest it as a carry gun for anyone unfamiliar with it. Used ones, buyer beware.
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Grun,
It looks you have your mind set on the bigger calibers. Since you've set target shooting as your main (if not only) choice, get a .22. Ammo is so much cheaper! You'll be able to get in about 20X more practice for the $ compared. You'll not get as tired shooting it.
If you're not experienced with shooting handguns, you might develop some bad habits early on that will affect your shooting well in the long run.
With a .22, you'll learn to develop the skills necessary for consistent shot to shot placement. No flinching, no rushing the shot, more prone to actually use proper breathing, trigger squeeeeeze, developing a good grip, sight picture, no shock from the muzzle blast, no unpleasant felt recoil, etc.
If after all that and you wish to pursue it, then you'll be in good standing to shoot the larger calibers well.
But no matter what gun you decide on, make sure you try it first as what's good for others might not be good for you.
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Oh yeah, I really like my Sig P220-45. :)
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Grun,
It looks you have your mind set on the bigger calibers. Since you've set target shooting as your main (if not only) choice, get a .22. Ammo is so much cheaper! You'll be able to get in about 20X more practice for the $ compared. You'll not get as tired shooting it.
If you're not experienced with shooting handguns, you might develop some bad habits early on that will affect your shooting well in the long run.
With a .22, you'll learn to develop the skills necessary for consistent shot to shot placement. No flinching, no rushing the shot, more prone to actually use proper breathing, trigger squeeeeeze, developing a good grip, sight picture, no shock from the muzzle blast, no unpleasant felt recoil, etc.
If after all that and you wish to pursue it, then you'll be in good standing to shoot the larger calibers well.
But no matter what gun you decide on, make sure you try it first as what's good for others might not be good for you.
A .22 is an excellent target pistol. I've heard good things about the Mosquito.
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I've had some experience shoting rental guns for a few months several years ago and I think I like the feel of shooting 9mm and 40.
The stuff you describe reminds me of shooting Desert Eagle 50cals - that was something... :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Grun,
I've fired .40 glocks, 9mm Taurus and .40 Taurus. I made my decision on the .40 Taurus. Its literally a good bang for your buck. Go to an indoor range that sells guns and they should let you fire a few rounds, up here they usually have about 50 guns that you can rent out.
The .40 caliber muzzle velocity is more than the .45 and less than the 9mm. It almost carries the punch of the .45 with way less recoil. Its sort of the best of both worlds (9mm and .45)
FWIW, I picked up my Taurus S&W .40 cal large frame for $400. Anyone know why Taurus is allowed to use S&W in its firearm name???)
The Taurus plant in Porto Alegre, Brasil was the former Smith & Wesson facility for handgun production to South America and Europe. If you notice the Taurus and S&W revolvers are identical. The older model Taurus and Beretta automatics are also Identical.
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the EAA Witness, aka the Tanfoglio TZ-75, aka the Springfield P9, and (i think) aka the Desert Eagle .40. All the same gun, marketed by different importers over the last few years.
I have one that I have tried to beat TO DEATH over the last 10 years, THOUSANDS of Major power factor rounds shooting USPSA/IPSC. I have gone through two dot scopes, one dot scope mount, and nothing else. The gun still works perfectly. It doesn't look as good now, with the blue (black, actually) worn off the frame, but it will still shoot. The ergonomics of the grip are perfect. I mean perfect. The gun settles into your hand like it was custom made for your grip.
I also have a para ordnance in .40, a good gun, but a big handful of pistol in the grip area--not a problem for me, i have big hands, but some people don't like it.
Another out-of-the-box possibility is a Browning Hi Power in .40. It also has very good ergonimics, but it is sometimes a little difficult to get a good trigger on Hi Powers. That linkage arrangement makes for a very 'stagey" pull, and all sorts of creep.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I also have an old tuned 1911 as well. (I have more but they are in WA state with the X)
:eek:
Ouch did you lose them in a divorce?
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Just came back from a few local gun stores.
I really like the Sig P226 grip and feel, it's almost as good as the Beretta and combined with its reported greater reliabilty and accuracy makes it the current front runner. I'd be lookinng at a P226R DAK - double action with rails in blue finish - I wonder if its legal for civilans tho. :)
The Beretta still feels the best to my hand and I love its looks.
The USP feels pretty good in my hand, not as good as the two above.
I really dislike the Glock hand feel, I never liked them much before but I hate the new ones with the built in finger contrours on the grip front - my fingers just dont fit right. Plus it doesnt seem like you can get aftermarket grips like with the Sig or beretta.
So it looks tro a fight between Sig and Beretta. :)
GTO I'd love to go shooting with you, when do you wanna do it?
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Kimber gets my vote. Not gonna beat it for out of the box accuracy.
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If memory serves, the .40 S&W became popular because the FBI adopted it. Rather than train agents to shoot better, the thought was to go with a bigger round. Personally, I think they could have just changed the bullet and a 9mm would have worked very well. But then, that's just rational thinking taking over again.
The .40 is chambered for many fine handguns. Find one you like and are willing to shoot. Conversion kits exist for many handguns to shoot .22 ammo. I have a couple (of conversion kits) and they work well.
Personally, and I say this because I own several, 9mm's are similar to .38's in the 'fun to shoot' centerfire category. A 9mm is also much easier to find ammo, less expensive to shoot than a .40 and will shoot a wider variety of bullets. That said, the .40 is a neat round with nearly the muzzle energy of a .45 ACP. I have known several people who have owned and liked (loved?) the .40. However, it is not a shooters cartridge.
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by derelict
Owned a Ruger .44 Mag Super Blackhawk for a year back in the 80's. Loved that gun. Had to give it back :(
I've hunted upon occasion with the old man's S&W .44 mag and didn't like it, even with the pacmire(sp?) grips. Too short a barrel, and threw the rounds everywhere. Never hunted with a .357 though the one person I know that does says it just aint enough unless you get really close and hit really well. Shot a friends Colt 45 a few times at the range back in late '90's.. Was a sweet gun, but I don't think it would take down a deer without a really well placed shot.
I'd kinda figured that the .41 was a rare bird. But this dude from Ohio just raved about it like it was the cat's meow :) I'd be reloading myself so that wouldn't bother me much about the ammo cost. And it sound's like it should do well on PA Whitetail...may have to see if I can find one. Thanks.
I used to shoot competitively in high power revolver matches like bowling pin matches and metallic silhouette matches. I owned 1/2 a dozen Model 29 S&W 44 Magnums. They all SUCKED. Heavy loads made the cylinder rotate backwards when you fired, and the gun got loose quick. I was shooting loads that were approved and listed in several reloading manuals, not "proof" loads.
My current Dan Wesson 44HV has outlived all of the S&W junk ten times over, combined. I don't think it has seen more than 100 factory loads in the near 20 years I've had it. The rest were max or near max hunting loads or competition loads. I did have to do an action job, including some polishing and a set of modified Wolff springs.
The Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk are wonderful. I have a 45 Colt Blackhawk, if you use the loads suggested in the manuals for Ruger revolvers, the 45 Colt is every bit as good for deer, hogs, bear, or anything else as a 44 Magnum. I use mine for that as well.
Check out the websites for John Linebaugh, Hamilton Bowen, and Sixgunner.com, you'll LOVE what they have for revolver enthusiasts. Linebaugh has an EXTENSIVE series of articles on handgun hunting and heavy loads, and compares the 44 Magnum to the 45 Colt.
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Grun,
Anytime next week after about 430 is good for me. Targetmasters west is on my way home more or less.
We will have to rent a .40 or 9MM though cause I only have .45s heheh
Email me at gtora2@gmail.com
We can meet there or someplace else, I like to go over gun safety with new shooters before we get to the range but you have shot before so were are good hehe
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Grun,
Anytime next week after about 430 is good for me. Targetmasters west is on my way home more or less.
We will have to rent a .40 or 9MM though cause I only have .45s heheh
Email me at gtora2@gmail.com
We can meet there or someplace else, I like to go over gun safety with new shooters before we get to the range but you have shot before so were are good hehe
I made the boss take a saftey class when she moved in with me
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Grun,
Anytime next week after about 430 is good for me. Targetmasters west is on my way home more or less.
We will have to rent a .40 or 9MM though cause I only have .45s heheh
Email me at gtora2@gmail.com
We can meet there or someplace else, I like to go over gun safety with new shooters before we get to the range but you have shot before so were are good hehe
It's been a few years since I shot guns so a bit of a refresher from a current shooter would be great.
Bring along your 220 and I can rent some others too.
I'll get in touch soon about timing.
Thanks
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Cool sounds good.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Just came back from a few local gun stores.
I really like the Sig P226 grip and feel, it's almost as good as the Beretta and combined with its reported greater reliabilty and accuracy makes it the current front runner. I'd be lookinng at a P226R DAK - double action with rails in blue finish - I wonder if its legal for civilans tho. :)
The Beretta still feels the best to my hand and I love its looks.
The USP feels pretty good in my hand, not as good as the two above.
I really dislike the Glock hand feel, I never liked them much before but I hate the new ones with the built in finger contrours on the grip front - my fingers just dont fit right. Plus it doesnt seem like you can get aftermarket grips like with the Sig or beretta.
So it looks tro a fight between Sig and Beretta. :)
GTO I'd love to go shooting with you, when do you wanna do it?
My USP 45 has had a Hogue Hand-All on it after the first 200 rounds and made an ALREADY EXCEPTIONAL fireman, that much better.
Karaya
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I'm definitely getting Hogue grips when I buy the gun.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'm definitely getting Hogue grips when I buy the gun.
Grun, would you mind emailing me on your diet. I could stand to lose some weight myself. I've topped out at 260. I'd appreciate it.
Dolinski@sbcglobal.net
<> bud
Karaya
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If you're just going to shoot targets, you can easily narrow down your choices:
Autos: .22 or .45 (I own a .40 and would not recommend one for target shooting for numerous reasons)
Revolvers: .22 or .357 (don't listen to lazs)
The .40 is a nice comprimise gun between a 9mm and a .45, but it doesn't have the target support that a .45 or a .22 does. Those two calibers are pretty much the standard for autos.
The .22 and .357 revolvers are even better for target in that they have better accuracy than the autos do. The .357 is nice because you can shoot .38 out of it all day. Both calibers of revolver also have alot of support in the target shooting community... though the .44 would be there too.
The .40 is great if you're actually looking for a concealable weapon. But when it comes to shooting paper, there's just alot of better options out there.
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mini... he said he doesn't like revolvers.
I vote for a Kimber in .45 and something like the sig in 9 mm... two guns... the 9 mm stuff is dirt cheap by the thousand and the 45 is fun to shoot and accurate. A single gun in .40 is not a wise move in my opinion. You can buy a .460 rowlands kit ror the kimber too. You can also get a 22 conversion kit for it.
Everything maverick said is right on the money in this thread.
For revolvers... I like the 44 mag. If it had never been invented I might own a .41 but there is less than no point in that now... the brass would get mixed up with my 44 brass and so would the slugs... just a mess for no reason... anything the .41 can do the 44 does better..
44 vs 45 colt? the 45 colt is a good round loaded real hot. Less pressure for the same energy... maybe a little finicky in the accuracy dept and not as versitile in my opinion... again.. if they had no 44 mag I would have a hot 45 colt but not now.
The cz or.... witness.... you can get one cheap. I have one in .45 with a conversion kit for 22.. you can get kits for 9 mm or .357 sig or .40 or whatever... it takes like 10 seconds to switch over to another caliber.
Most semi autos have 22 conversion kits available but the eaa witness is probly the fastest and easiest and simplest to use.
lazs
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SigSauer p229 is a good auto. I had one a few years ago, loved shooting it. I was told that it had more "knock down" power than a .45. It has a hammer kinda like a revolver.
(http://cs.felk.cvut.cz/~xruzickj/sig/p229.gif)
Here's what mine looked like after I had to polish the slide after it accidentally slid down the road...
(http://www.accuratereloading.com/sig229.jpg)
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Oh yeah, the p229 is a .40 cal. btw...
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i have yet to shoot any 45 cal..that is bettr then the H&K Tactical
wow..it shoots like a Rollys Royce driving
Smooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooth
seems to me if you do a lot of target shooting..maybe a 9mm is bettr..ammo seems ot be much less when buying bulk
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green... have you shot an off the shelf Kimber .45? A Dan Wesson revolver in 44?
I like the HK but... the Kimber and DW are nicer.
lazs
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For a target pistol that is extremely reliable and easy to use, get a Glock 17 (standard size 9mm). It is everything you need for a simple range pistol to shoot continuously.
Essentially:
Easy to load (especially with the included loader)
Very easy to shoot
Very easy to control
Very accurate
Very easy to clean (Field strips to 4 parts)
Very easy to maintain (clean after every 1000 rnds or so)
Cheap Ammo (9mm)
Overall the best weapon made for everyday range shooting.
I would NOT recommend :
SIG, HK, or any pure dual action pistols.
Terror
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I don't think you'll regret buying a Sig P226. Btw, if it makes you feel any better about your choice, this is the company's line on the gun.
The SIG SAUER P226, available in 9mm, .357 SIG and .40 S&W calibers, is the chosen sidearm for the U.S. Navy SEALs, Federal agents, and numerous law enforcement agencies, such as the Ohio State Highway Patrol, Texas Department of Public Safety and the Michigan State Police.
Professionals appreciate two of the pistol's many safety features: the decocking lever and the patented automatic firing pin safety block. These eliminate the need for an external manual safety and allow the pistol to be ready for use at any moment - a critical need in modern law enforcement. Exceptional ergonomics and balance make these pistols easy to carry, with better ballistic performance and accuracy.
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I wanted a 226 for a time, but then the 10 round mag thing came around, see no point in a High cap 9 if you cant have high cap mags.
No doubt it is a fine firearm, like all sigs.
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Originally posted by Terror
For a target pistol that is extremely reliable and easy to use, get a Glock 17 (standard size 9mm). It is everything you need for a simple range pistol to shoot continuously.
Essentially:
Easy to load (especially with the included loader)
Very easy to shoot
Very easy to control
Very accurate
Very easy to clean (Field strips to 4 parts)
Very easy to maintain (clean after every 1000 rnds or so)
Cheap Ammo (9mm)
Overall the best weapon made for everyday range shooting.
I would NOT recommend :
SIG, HK, or any pure dual action pistols.
Terror
What exactly is a pure dual action pistol? Do you mean double action?
Sigs and I am fairly sure HKs, are only double action is the hammer is down, and only for the first ****.
You can order them as double action only, were every shot is double action, but I can only see this for police forces that require it.
your glock is no better or worse then any firearm you listed.
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I shoot ipsc for the past 5 years so i do fire more rounds in one practice then most people shoot all year. I see and have shot many different brands and calibers. I have a sig 229 in 9mm and is know collecting dust. Sig is a great weapon but their not a target shooting pistol. My practice days are mostly with steel from 10 yards to 35 yards. I shoot a glock 34c it a full size with the compensator. Some people say that the compensator doesn't do any good with factory ammo that's because they have never shot one. At $600 you cant go wrong and after you get better you can get almost any aftermarket part for it 1/2 the cost. Do yourself a favor if its for plinking at the range get a glock.. I also shoot a sti trojin in 38 super its a nice gun better than a glock but it was also 2k. Its not that much better!
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sorry the sig is a 226
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I dont like the feel of glocks in my hand, especially since they added the molded in finger grooves. That is pretty much a deal breaker on most Glocks I have tried so far.
Sig and Beretta feel much better in my hand, they fit better.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
What exactly is a pure dual action pistol? Do you mean double action?
Sigs and I am fairly sure HKs, are only double action is the hammer is down, and only for the first ****.
You can order them as double action only, were every shot is double action, but I can only see this for police forces that require it.
your glock is no better or worse then any firearm you listed.
Yes, a pure dual (double) action pistol is a pistol that can only be fired dual (double) action. They are the hardest guns to be consistently accurate.
The problem I have with SIG (and HK) is the design is restrictive on how high you can hold the weapon, thus making the "flip" of the recoil harder to control. Why get a firearm that from the start is more difficult to control and hence more difficult to get back on target and fire accurately on the subsequent shot. (Unless you want to take 3-5 seconds between shots.) I have fired both SIGS and GLOCKS in competition and the Glocks are just plain easier to shoot quickly and accurately. (I am not saying the a SIG cannot be shot well. It just takes ALOT more work and practice to do it.) In my opinion, only a revolver could out pace a Glock in competition. And then only when the round count is kept to no more than 6 shots between reloads.
Terror
PS. A 1911 in 9mm is pretty good in competition too, but seem to have more malfunctions than Glocks.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I dont like the feel of glocks in my hand, especially since they added the molded in finger grooves. That is pretty much a deal breaker on most Glocks I have tried so far.
Sig and Beretta feel much better in my hand, they fit better.
If "feel" is a major concern, then the best "feeling" gun I have shot, is the Springfield Armory XD series of pistols. They feel very nice in the hand. And they come close to performing as good as a Glock. Of course, after breaking one down, they are about as close to a Glock that a product can come with out getting every patent lawyer in the country involved.
Terror
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Update!
I went shooting with GtoRa the other day and we fired several hundred rounds through his P220 .45 and a rented p226 .40
I really like both Sigs. :)
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Originally posted by Terror
For a target pistol that is extremely reliable and easy to use, get a Glock 17 (standard size 9mm). It is everything you need for a simple range pistol to shoot continuously.
Essentially:
Easy to load (especially with the included loader)
Very easy to shoot
Very easy to control
Very accurate
Very easy to clean (Field strips to 4 parts)
Very easy to maintain (clean after every 1000 rnds or so)
Cheap Ammo (9mm)
Overall the best weapon made for everyday range shooting.
I would NOT recommend :
SIG, HK, or any pure dual action pistols.
Terror
HK is "tough to tame"? Well let's see, I have a USP .45, and have been shooting it consistently for 6 years now. It took about 500 round to get used to it. Now. LMAO. Best damn $500 I've ever spent.
9mm ammo is junk, period. I wouldn't trust a 9mm with my life.
Karaya
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Yeah Grun and I had a blast, now we gota get laz to let us come up so we can shoot his little .357 hand cannon.
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The Colt 1851 Navy in .44 caliber is more fun than a barrel of monkeys. Very nice for home defence, also. If you miss the intruder with the ball, you'll probably blind him with the powder flash.
BTW
Lord Nelson's last words: "Kiss me, Hardy!"
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Sure, if you can keep the barrel wedges from falling out. I doubt anyone is going to be scared of you if the barrel falls off your gun when you confront them. Hehe.
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Or if one of the caps falls off and jams the action.
GTo.. How did the new sleek grun look? I haven't shot more than a half a box out of the 340 pd since I've had it and that is usually one or two rounds at a time. I have shot umpteen j frames in the past and this one is about the same except for.....
THE RECOIL...
It was not all that bad with the stupid rubber gummy bear grips that came with it but I put on eagle wood concealment grips. trying to get a gun out of clothing with pachmyer gummy bears on it is like trying to get a wad of wet chewing gum out of your pocket.
lazs
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Sure, if you can keep the barrel wedges from falling out. I doubt anyone is going to be scared of you if the barrel falls off your gun when you confront them. Hehe.
I never had trouble with barrel wedges. And if the caps do jam, it makes one hell of a club, though the dragoon madel is better in this regard.
Very spectacular when fired at night, BTW.
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How come you guys don't like the 1858 remington instead? seems a better gun. Stronger... easy to reload (if you have extra cylinders) and nothing falls out or off.
lazs
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I do Lazs. A pair of them actually. I just didnt want to start the Remington/Colt debate lol.
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Originally posted by eagl
Downsides - it's a bit heavy if you hang it on a crummy belt, and I've heard that there is a part or two that may break if heavily used or abused. I haven't had mine break and I try not to abuse it, so YMMV.
Back in 1997, the INS gave me three 96Ds to test (we manufacture a sensor that is mounted in the right-side grip that counts rounds fired, time and dates stamps each firing and stores the data for future download).
These consisted of a brand new weapon and two "service trials" pistols that already had about 10,000 rounds through them and had been overhauled prior to giving them to us.
We experienced failures in both of the "service trials" guns and the new pistol as well.
At around 11,000 rounds, the front sight fell off one. I used a special loctite to repair this (worked great). Around 12,000 rounds the second gun had the slide lock cam pin fail and the slide, barrel and recoil spring went down range when returning to battery. This gun was returned to the INS, and then to Beretta for evaluation.
Around 4,000 rounds, the new 96D suffered a broken trigger spring. This was replaced and failed again just short of 9,000 rounds. We ceased testing at that point.
So, my suggestion is that you replace the trigger spring every 3,500 rounds as preventative maintenance. I doubt that you will have to worry about putting 10,000 rounds through the gun, so the other failures are probably not a concern.
The most amusing thing was the look on our receiving clerk's face when the INS delivered 25 cases of .40 Remington Golden Sabre +P ammo. We did all this testing with just 12 magazines, wearing out thumbs rather quickly. Every 100 rounds we downloaded the stored data. Over the course of the testing, the sensor system exhibited just 7 count errors, all double counts. However, every round was hand-fired and we had two guys with battered hands. The Remington .40 +P offers a moderate recoil in the 96D, but after a few thousand rounds, the hands get well and truly beat up.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by lazs2
Or if one of the caps falls off and jams the action.
GTo.. How did the new sleek grun look? I haven't shot more than a half a box out of the 340 pd since I've had it and that is usually one or two rounds at a time. I have shot umpteen j frames in the past and this one is about the same except for.....
THE RECOIL...
It was not all that bad with the stupid rubber gummy bear grips that came with it but I put on eagle wood concealment grips. trying to get a gun out of clothing with pachmyer gummy bears on it is like trying to get a wad of wet chewing gum out of your pocket.
lazs
Grun looks good, a hell of a lott better then my fat bellybutton lol.
There was a guy on the range shooting a 340pd, but he was anoying lol.
He had the big rubber grips on it.
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i hear alot of good things about the cz..its cheap..dependible and easy to clean..and they got one of the coolest rounds for it..its a 7.62 -25...about 150 bucks will set you up with one of them,,and i heard alot of good about that round
as for 40 cal..alot of people enjoy tarus and beretta...my freind has a beretta 40 cal..and it shoots very nice and looks good...but my buddy who works for a federal building said he seen beretta 9mm fail during the torture test in police acadamy..he said the range officer walked up to 2 guys and told them..your beretta will fail this test and so will this guys desart eagle 9mm...he said by the end of the test..both those guns failed...so they must know the flaws..im sure for a average shooter who keeps there gun clean will last a life time,,but if you abuse them..sounds like they wont last
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Just came back from Reeds Sport shop in San Jose, they are having a huge sale and gun show there.
I got to handle and dry fire the DAK trigger Sig229, now I just gotta find one to actually shoot.
Oh and I might just pick up one of those Ruger 22s at some point, the ammo is dirt cheap and the guns are kina classy.
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Originally posted by lazs2
green... have you shot an off the shelf Kimber .45? A Dan Wesson revolver in 44?
I like the HK but... the Kimber and DW are nicer.
lazs
What's specail about DW revolvers?
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suave.. the DW revolvers are very well made with a lot of hand work going into them... great trigger pulls.. a barell that is supported by tension from both ends.. adjustable barell gap.. light triggers. Line bored cylinders and tight tolerances. Probly one of the top five production revolvers in the world for accuracy and strength. You can also get any barell from 2" to 10" and bolt it on yourself. the mount for the grips is unique and allows you to customize the grips for any hand.
lazs
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Sweet I didn't know that. I just know the double action trigger pull is pretty smooth, and the single action is very very light. I didn't know if that was because of the previous owner being a gunsmith or what. I should get a smaller grip for it. I would prefer if it had a lighter barrel on it also. It's got a big bellybutton barrel and grip on it so it pretty much stays at home unless I'm moving.
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about the grip thing... My hands are very big so the grip is about right but.. you can get other grips or grind down the stock one to any size bigger than your index finger is around.. the grip is held on by that post and that is the only limitation.
they make several types of barells... really, not the barrel but the shroud.. you can get lighter shrouds or grind on one if you like.
I like the heavy shroud.
I have shot several groups of 1" with full power 44 mag loads at 25 yards (from a sandbag) with this gun... nothing else I own seems to be quite this accurate.
lazs