Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mussie on July 09, 2005, 10:42:56 AM
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Ok this is gonna make me look like a total noob but
1- (YES/NO)
Wep is basically pushing an engine beyond its normal operating RPM.
2- (Correct? Yes No)
With water injection there would have been a limited amount of water to inject so I assume that WEP should be limited by this and it’s not just a case of waiting for the engine to cool down
3- Was WEP implemented in different ways or did all aircraft use water injection.
4- If there were other ways to produce WEP can you give some examples.
Just point me to a link if ya like
Thanks
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easy stick a can of nitrgen in the plane!! IM sure you already seen it. La7 was built with 20 cans on nitrgen in it so it can give it that UPMh!
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Originally posted by mussie
Ok this is gonna make me look like a total noob but
1- (YES/)
Wep is basically pushing an engine beyond its normal operating RPM.
(commonly know as millitary power)
2- (Correct? Yes)
With water injection there would have been a limited amount of water to inject so I assume that WEP should be limited by this and it’s not just a case of waiting for the engine to cool down
(the water i would think would have been recycled like that in the radiator in your car)
3- Was WEP implemented in different ways or did all aircraft use water injection.
(no clue)
4- If there were other ways to produce WEP can you give some examples.
Just point me to a link if ya like
Thanks
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easy stick a can of nitrgen in the plane!! IM sure you already seen it. La7 was built with 20 cans on nitrgen in it so it can give it that UPMh!
Jet, Are you serious, did they use Nox in the LA-7?
the water i would think would have been recycled like that in the radiator in your car
68, I thought it was injected directly into the cylinder chamber?
If thats correct then it could not be recycled
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68 the water isn't recycled. WEP water injection is not used to cool anything down (the purpose of the radiator) but rather injecting water in with the fuel/air mixture retards detonation giving you more oomph per puff of the cylinder.
There are liquid cooled engines, air cooled engines and both can use water injection which is nothing magical or super powered like an Afterburner, just a few more horsepower to help give you that last little edge to either win a fight or get away from it.
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But they would have a limit to how long they could use WEP till they landed and refilled the water tank right ?
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Wet WEP means there is a tank that contains water or water/methanol mix. This is injected into the inlet of the engine to cool the combustion chambers and prevent detonation at high boost levels. When it is gone, it is gone until the tank is refilled.
Dry WEP is simply a higher boost rating that can be used until the engine gets too hot.
Nitrous oxide was used by the Germans to increase power at higher altitudes where less dense air lowers power. Nitrous ixide seperates into nitrogen and oxygen. The cooling effect reduces intake temperatures and makes the air denser. The oxygen is there to allow more fuel to be burned. When the bottle is empty it is empty until it is replaced or refilled.
Only dry WEP is renewable in flight. When the engine cools enough, it can be run at the higher boost settings again for a while.
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ok so some of planes in AH should have limited WEP? and from jets comments I take it that the LA is one of them.
Thanks all
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Originally posted by Golfer
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There are liquid cooled engines, air cooled engines and both can use water injection
dont forget cooling with fuel too
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Americans Used water injection Germans used nitrox
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The Mosquito NF.Mk XIX used N2O as well.
The Ki-84's engine could use methanol/water, thought I don't know if it was used in service or not.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
dont forget cooling with fuel too
Unless you're talking about using a richer mixture I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Originally posted by Golfer
68 the water isn't recycled. WEP water injection is not used to cool anything down (the purpose of the radiator) but rather injecting water in with the fuel/air mixture retards detonation giving you more oomph per puff of the cylinder.
There are liquid cooled engines, air cooled engines and both can use water injection which is nothing magical or super powered like an Afterburner, just a few more horsepower to help give you that last little edge to either win a fight or get away from it.
Water injection (ADI / MW-50 etc..) is injected into the eye of the supercharger cooling the charge allowing higher boost by preventing detonation. The cooler the charge the more pressure you can have in the cylinder before the fuel detonates.
It certainly does provide some cooling. In fact water injection isn't needed above FTH to prevent detonation. Above FTH the supercharger is already losing power. However, injecting water will still provide cooling.
(the water i would think would have been recycled like that in the radiator in your car)
It is not recycled in any way.
Americans Used water injection Germans used nitrox
ADI and MW-50 work the same way. MW-50 = water / methanol 50% each. The methanol prevents the water from freezing and aids in evaporation (which is how it cools the charge).
On the FW 190A and F series C3 injection was used to cool the charge. C3 fuel (right from the fuel line) is injected into the eye of the supercharger cooling the charge.
N20 was rarely used in standard service by the LW.
The Ki-84's engine could use methanol/water, thought I don't know if it was used in service or not.
The Japanese used Water/Methanol just like the Germans in several aircraft types (Ki-84, Ki-100 etc..)
But they would have a limit to how long they could use WEP till they landed and refilled the water tank right ?
All planes in AH should have a limit set for 'WEP'. In some cases exceeding the limit could cause engine damage but in most instances the limits were arrived at to pro-long engine life. The idea is to keep as many aircraft in service as possible and not to over burden your maintenance crews. In some instances where exceeding 'WEP' limits could result in damage.
In the case of water / adi / MW-50 these tanks need to be filled just like your fuel tank. When the water is gone running at max boost could case serious engine problems.
In AH all aircraft that have 'WEP' so that after a given amount of time your engine will heat up and automatically cut-off 'WEP'. After a given cool down period you have 'WEP' again. You could do this for ever. For most planes the time to 'WEP" cut-off varies, so does the cool down period.
Wep is basically pushing an engine beyond its normal operating RPM.
In AH the term 'WEP' is just a generic term assigned to max (emergency) power.
First you need to understand that there are various power settings for aircraft. These settings are arrived at in order to ensure a good service life, to increase range by conservation of fuel etc..
For example you would see something like this:
Take-off / emergency power
Max continuous - (max continuous power setting the aircraft can run at)
Climb / combat - (for German AC this was normally a 30 min limit.)
Special Emergency - 1, 3, 5, 10 min ect limit.
Exceeding those limits won't necessarily mean your engine would blow up or fail (but in some planes it could). What exceeding those limits will do is cut short expected service life of that engine and increase time between overhauls.
As the Cap'n points out with some aircraft 'emergency' power just means increasing rpm and boost and on others it would mean water injection etc...
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Nitrous oxide was used by the Germans to increase power at higher altitudes where less dense air lowers power.
Ahh! So THAT's why I'm laughing so hard when I shoot one of those numbnuts down at high alt! ;)
W~
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Ahh! So THAT's why I'm laughing so hard when I shoot one of those numbnuts down at high alt!
If you are referring to flying LW aircraft then no LW plane in AH has N20 (GM-1). IIRC not even the Ta-152 (as it should).
GM-1 wasn't standard for the LW AH has in game (exception 152).
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Originally posted by Wotan
If you are referring to flying LW aircraft then no LW plane in AH has N20 (GM-1). IIRC not even the Ta-152 (as it should).
GM-1 wasn't standard for the LW AH has in game (exception 152).
Ruh, roh! To serious here for me. In the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn, "It's a joke, son! It's a joke!"
I was thinking that in my virtual world (which you have TOTALLY destroyed by your "real life" facts) I was trying to pretend I was sniffing the Nitros Oxide from the planes I made leak it then blew up... Thanks.
Why does every thing have to be so seeweeous?
Oh, btw.. N2O is not NO. Don't really care who used N2O, or when or why. NO is STILL used in Hot Rod racers as boost to combustion engines. And you know what? It still works!
Feel free to ruin my jokes again at anytime in the future.
W~
P.S. Are you aware that Nitros Oxide (NO for short) is also known as "Laughing Gas" and is the propellent for the "Redi-whip" brand of sprayed whipped cream?
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Oh, btw.. N2O is not NO. Don't really care who used N2O, or when or why. NO is STILL used in Hot Rod racers as boost to combustion engines. And you know what? It still works!
Much like your 'jokes' your education is lacking as well.
N20 is Nitrous Oxide
NO is Nitric Oxide
I would focus on a more traditonal education rather then 'stand-up'.
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I'm glad I didn't comment on this... who knew Wotan had a periodic table of the elements at his desk? I mean damn! I haven't even seen one since High School...
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Originally posted by Wotan
Much like your 'jokes' your education is lacking as well.
N20 is Nitrous Oxide
NO is Nitric Oxide
I would focus on a more traditonal education rather then 'stand-up'.
I bow to your superior intellect.
:rolleyes:
I missed the little subset 2. Oh, well.
You might be pretty good at SWG. No jokes allowed there, either. It's oh so realistic.
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Originally posted by Golfer
Unless you're talking about using a richer mixture I have no idea what you're talking about.
When using nitrous oxide which is basicly an oxidizer, large amounts of extra gasoline are injected at the same time to richen the mixture otherwise it will burn a piston emediately. somewhat like a cutting torch cutting steele which is nothing more than rapid oxidation.
the same goes for added boost with more boost you also need more fuel otherwise you will burn a piston.
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Originally posted by Kurt
I'm glad I didn't comment on this... who knew Wotan had a periodic table of the elements at his desk? I mean damn! I haven't even seen one since High School...
Now I feel really geeky. I DO have a periodic table of the elements on my desk! But then again I make drugs for a living (legally of course).
Peace
Pillur
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Originally posted by LtPillur
Now I feel really geeky. I DO have a periodic table of the elements on my desk! But then again I make drugs for a living (legally of course).
Peace
Pillur
No need to feel 'geeky'.
Especially if you 'make drugs for a living'.
You should be able to tell the 'humpties' above what Nitric Oxide is...
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Numpties Wotan, numpties.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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Originally posted by jon
When using nitrous oxide which is basicly an oxidizer, large amounts of extra gasoline are injected at the same time to richen the mixture otherwise it will burn a piston emediately. somewhat like a cutting torch cutting steele which is nothing more than rapid oxidation.
the same goes for added boost with more boost you also need more fuel otherwise you will burn a piston.
Double check what I was replying to. Cooling with fuel...I wanted to clarify he wasn't thinking of using fuel to cool the engine in liquid form like a radiator would. I'm lost on what the heck he's talking about unless he's referring to mixture settings.
Water injection doesn't perform the same function as N2O it retards detonation rather then providing a bigger kaboom.
quote:
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Originally posted by Golfer
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There are liquid cooled engines, air cooled engines and both can use water injection
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dont forget cooling with fuel too
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Originally posted by Wotan
No need to feel 'geeky'.
Especially if you 'make drugs for a living'.
You should be able to tell the 'humpties' above what Nitric Oxide is...
LOL "humpties"? Threw me on that one. Nitric oxide is not only a major polluting gas from combustion engines it is found in the body and serves some interesting purposes, including penil erection (viagra etc work by modulating NO or nitric oxide).
Nitrous oxide is the stuff that makes you feel good at the dentist. It is the so called laughing gas. It is also used for injection in engines to increase power. N2O or dinitrogen monoxide was used in some german fighter planes during WWII (known as GM-1).
When N2O is burned it produces a very oxygen enriched mixture. Which when conterbalanced by increasing fuel in the mixture produces a nice power boost.
Test tomorrow.
Peace
Pillur
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Originally posted by Swoop
Numpties Wotan, numpties.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
yeah numpties, that's it...
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Double check what I was replying to. Cooling with fuel...I wanted to clarify he wasn't thinking of using fuel to cool the engine in liquid form like a radiator would. I'm lost on what the heck he's talking about unless he's referring to mixture settings
Golfer wasnt intended for you just for the people who may not understand your reply
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Originally posted by Wotan
GM-1 wasn't standard for the LW AH has in game (exception 152).
Be cool if it was cuz they'd have to model the extra black exhaust that was emitted when it was used.
p
o
p
g
u
n
...heavy exhaust stainage too.
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yep , air intake/chamber cooling, can be delivered in a few different ways/locations. prevents detonation ei. fuel instantly exploding before correct piston position(blows holes in pistons and bends/breaks rods).
works with cars and diesels also, we used to use it on marine/generator engines to clean out carbonation buildup from prolonged idling (fishing/no load generator at idle). Used to use an additive by Swepco Chemicals to the water and basically pour it into the eng. Some drawbacks include possible scoring of cylinder if large deposits fail to breakup and get ejected, you can visually scope the cylinder/head prior to making the decision to use to determine if heavy build-up exists.
use too much water ...and bye bye eng., wont blow up but will produce some heavy wear in a very short time on the friction surfaces.
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Originally posted by Golfer
but rather injecting water in with the fuel/air mixture retards detonation giving you more oomph per puff of the cylinder.
(http://www.earache.com/WickedWorld/interview/cradle_of_filth/Beavis-Butthead.jpg)
huh.. huhuhuh... huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh...
he said retards.
huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh