Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: killnu on July 10, 2005, 09:17:18 AM
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did the F6F have the ability for 2x20mms and some 50cals?
i seen on the USS Yorktown in Charleston, SC, they have an F6F in the hangar bay...on the label plate describing it, states had the ability for 6x50cals or 2x20mm and 2x50cals(i think 2, may of been 4). any truth to this? if so, why no option in game for it?
~S~
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We may not have the particular model F6f that had those options available.
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Did killnu2 watch the show last night also :D
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guess spade hasnt gotten to the grade when they teach to read?
i seen it on an WW2 aircraft carrier named the USS Yorktown which is permantly moored in Charleston, SC. :)
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Yes the F6F-5 could have 2 20mm with 225 rounds per gun and 4 50 cals with 400 rounds per gun.
ouch.
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I know they used some nightfighter Hellcats with the 20mm,
but it was fairly rare. I guess the reason we don't have the
37mm armed Il-2 either :).
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That would be ownage.
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I think it's because of the perk system. The big guns would need to be perked, but it would be unfair for anyone taking the 50s alone. The model is perked, not the loadout.
I think the 37mm armed IL2 should be in the game. We have no really effective tank busters as of now. Unless you bomb them, but that doesn't always work either.
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One of the books I have laying around makes a statement to the fact that all "late model" -5 hellcats could swap out 2 .50 MG's and replace them wth 2x 20mm cannon. To the best of my knowledge only a handful of the -5N night fighters ever operated with this loadout.
Personally I hope we never see it in AH.
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2x20mm + 4x0.5 = night fighter version only. Fairly rare iirc.
Bozon
edit:
Sorry, Soulyss beat me to it.
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Originally posted by killnu
guess spade hasnt gotten to the grade when they teach to read?
i seen it on an WW2 aircraft carrier named the USS Yorktown which is permantly moored in Charleston, SC. :)
:( well jeez, just curious. Was funny that i saw a show about it last night and you happened to post something about it.
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was only joking Spade ;)
The big guns would need to be perked, but it would be unfair for anyone taking the 50s alone. The model is perked, not the loadout.
isnt that kinda like 3 gun la7 vs 2 gun la7? we got those, both unperked.
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Don't tell me you've missed all the "perk the la7" threads...Both of the LA7 loadouts are worth perking, even at a low level. The plane by itself is superior to any other in the game.
Now then, let's stay on topic and not start another lgay war.
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ya missed the point ooz. if we have one plane (la7) with two different loadouts, one of which being more rare than other...why not have F6F with 20mm, which is more rare(well, from what i get from this thread it was)...and neither being perked.
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Welll...uh....because I said so! :D
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Originally posted by OOZ662
Both of the LA7 loadouts are worth perking, even at a low level. The plane by itself is superior to any other in the game.
Hardly...the only thing the La7 can do well is run. There are other planes that are far more capable than the La7. It is not the wonder uber plane you so fear.
And to get back on track...the only reason why I don't see ammo loadout being added to the F6F is that is only used by specialized units. In this case, those F6F's dedicated to the night-fighter role.
ack-ack
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to the F6F is that is only used by specialized units
so? not to be short, but so what? does that mean it is not eligible for game? if so, then i didnt know that and that was why i asked;) now i know...if that is the answer...:D
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Because you probably have less than a hundred planes that had this ammo loadout option in real life.
Now the majority of the pilots in the MA being what they are, do you really think that this wouldn't be the predominate F6F they fly?
ack-ack
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once again i refer back to 3 cannon la7s...
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I think the 37mm armed IL2 should be in the game. We have no really effective tank busters as of now. Unless you bomb them, but that doesn't always work either.
You've obviously never flown the Hurri 2d. I can land anywhere from 3-8 kills in it. (Assuming the GV nerds don't stop coming). And that's not M16's. That's Osties, panzers, and sometimes tigers.
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killin, the lala already has cannon, but if you add a cannon option to the hellcat everyone will only use that option. we might as well put in the p61 while we are at it. HTC has more important things to make than an option that will be overused to the point of gross historical inacuracy.
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Well, if its any defense for the La-7, the 3-cannon version was rare indeed, but only because the introduction of the advanced, B-20 cannons were late. After 1945 the 3-cannon version was to be considered a new standard. All La-7s after that time would be equipped with 3 cannons.
Much simularly, the Bf109s armed with MK108 30mms, were also part of a standard armament option after late 1944. In case of the Fw190A-8s, the MK108 armament seems a bit more pronounced as a specialized "buff hunter" variant, but these Sturmbock conversions were themselves fairly numerous.
With the P-38 and P-47, people in the MA usually fly with the increased ammo option, and IIRC, this is the "extra ammo" option. The basic option would be to fly with the smaller ammo load, but for both those planes, increased ammo was also a part of a standard armament loadout.
...
I'm not sure about the Hellcat, but my impression is that it's not anywhere near something to be considered a "standard armament option"... it was available only for night fighters, is it not?
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http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/F6F.htm (http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/F6F.htm)
here is link saying some "F6F-5 and F6F-5N" used 20mm, so 5N is nightfighter? and -5?
The F6F-5N was the definitive night-fighting version of the Hellcat, over 1500 of these built by Grumman.
the above quote was from this link
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/f6f_hellcat.html (http://www.acepilots.com/planes/f6f_hellcat.html)
"During 1944 deliveries began of a new Hellcat version, the F6F-5, with a number of detail refinements and improvements. The R-2800-IOW engine (with water injection) was retained, but the cowling was modified, and the windshield was also improved. Provision was made for 2,000 lb of bombs under the centre section and six rockets under the outer wings, and 20 mm cannon usually replaced the inner machine guns on this model. Production of this version totalled 6,436, plus 1,189 F6F-5Ns with APS-6 in the pod on the starboard wing. The Royal Navy received 252 F6F-3s and 930 F6F-5s which it operated as Hellcat I and Hellcat II respectively."
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/WWII/hellcat/helcat_info/hellcat_info.htm (http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/WWII/hellcat/helcat_info/hellcat_info.htm)
oops, just looked at plane page, we do have F6F-5...must be so everyone who flies F6F doesnt use the cannon version.
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ok, ive been googling like mad to find actual numbers of F6f-5s produced with 20mm and can find an acutaul numerical value...i get "some" and "many" but no numbers...anybody have a link that has that info?
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Originally posted by killnu
ok, ive been googling like mad to find actual numbers of F6f-5s produced with 20mm and can find an acutaul numerical value...i get "some" and "many" but no numbers...anybody have a link that has that info?
F6F - 12,275 built
F6F-5 - 7,870 built
F6F-5N - 1,434 built
Relevant quote:
"On April 4, 1944, the first F6F-5 varient of the Hellcat took to the air. This was the major production varient, with 7,870 being built, of which 932 were given to the British Navy. It differed from the previous version above all in its engine (a Pratt & Whitney R-2800-10W with water injection to increase power in the case of emergency) and in its heavier armament, which eventually included a maximum bomb load of 2,002 lbs (907 kg). A series of night fighters (F6F-5N) were derived from this version too, with 1,434 being built in all. Production ceased on November 16, 1945."
Source: Complete book of World War II Combat Aircraft, p. 310
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ive got that much, looking for the number of F6F-5's that had 20mm specifically. ty tho.
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FGF had 85 mph stall I have read. True? FW 190 had 70 mph stall according to Eric Brown. True?
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Lets have it. Don't perk it, but have it only available at night.
muahahahahahahah :rofl
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Originally posted by agent 009
FGF had 85 mph stall I have read. True? FW 190 had 70 mph stall according to Eric Brown. True?
FGF? You mean F6F?
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Yes, F6F. Must be gettin old. Sakai thought it was best US plane.
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Originally posted by killnu
ive got that much, looking for the number of F6F-5's that had 20mm specifically. ty tho.
May never know. Could have been mission specific armament. Doubt there are any figures on exact armament of A/C.
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"HTC has more important things to make than an option that will be overused to the point of gross historical inacuracy."
they have nothing better to do then add aircraft that thier customers are interested in.
The cannon Hellcat outnumbers the cannon hog by several orders of magnitude.
It out numbers the entire production run of several prominant planes in this game.
It should be added as a perk load out. A capability that HTC should have added to this game 4 years ago.
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wow, didnt catch that earlier pongo...guess he means like the 3 cannon la7, that has to be what he is referring to...but that is another thread altogether.
HTC has more important things to make than an option that will be overused to the point of gross historical inacuracy
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Factually, the F6F-5N did indeed have the ability to carry 20mm.
Was it in practice? Not sure.
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Yes it was in practice.
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I saw it on the History Channel. STHU and add it.
;)
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Hellcat got spring tabbed airalons at some point. Corsair is often said to have been best roller of US pacific planes. True? outroll Hellcat?
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Originally posted by Pongo
"HTC has more important things to make than an option that will be overused to the point of gross historical inacuracy."
they have nothing better to do then add aircraft that thier customers are interested in.
The cannon Hellcat outnumbers the cannon hog by several orders of magnitude.
It out numbers the entire production run of several prominant planes in this game.
It should be added as a perk load out. A capability that HTC should have added to this game 4 years ago.
:aok
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The spring tabbed ailerons helped, but because the hellcat was, by nature more stable it would never be able to out roll a Corsair.
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The Corsair is also extremely unstable with large loadouts.
Another neat Corsair fact is the flap overspeed springs that allow them to retract at higher than deployable speeds. Also, the Corsair can dump it's gear at high speeds which act as a dive brake. At high speeds, the gear will not fully extend, but they do not rip off! This mod was first started as a Main Gear only deal, but in later aircraft, all gear dropped.
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My book here states that 1432 F6F-5N night fighters wer produced with radar and in later aircraft, 2 of the guns were replaced with 20mm cannon.
Hmm my guess would be the last 1/4 to 1/3 maybe had cannons just a guess.
Oh and to who ever said we don't have a good tank killer.... The YAK 9T will do the job nicely. Just make a fly by and see what direction the tank is moveing turn around so you are lined up on his back side and put about 5 rounds of that 37mm right into his engine and that should kill him or at the very least his engine which makes him all the more easy to kill. This always gives me great satisfaction to kill a tank with a little fighter like a YAK.
This method also works for 20mm armed planes but requiers more ammo of course.
[NOTE you must have good aim and a
steady hand.]
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Originally posted by Flayed1
Oh and to who ever said we don't have a good tank killer.... The YAK 9T will do the job nicely. Just make a fly by and see what direction the tank is moveing turn around so you are lined up on his back side and put about 5 rounds of that 37mm right into his engine and that should kill him or at the very least his engine which makes him all the more easy to kill. This always gives me great satisfaction to kill a tank with a little fighter like a YAK.
This method also works for 20mm armed planes but requiers more ammo of course.
[NOTE you must have good aim and a
steady hand.]
Hurri IID is an outstanding tank killer. You can get 3-4 Panzers with one ammo load and it will take out the Tiger as well. T-34 is another story though.:confused:
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What kind of 20MM cannons on that HellKitty?
Magoo
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Same as on the '38's. U.S. built Hispano type cannon.
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According to Dean, in AHT, only "a few" F6F-5N with mixed armament of 20mm arrived in the Pacific Theater in June 1945.
All the best,
Crumpp
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Hurri IID is an outstanding tank killer. You can get 3-4 Panzers with one ammo load and it will take out the Tiger as well. T-34 is another story though.
Same with the 9T but the IID jerks all over when you fire the guns, The YAK fires nice and smooth.
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"Hellcat Aces of WW2" by B. Tillman
"Most nightfighting Hellcats kept the standard six gun .50 cal armament, most units experienced jamming problems with their cannon."
The book lists at least a half dozen Navy and Marine Night Hellcat squadrons, from the Phillipines campaign to Okinawa to the strikes on Japan. It does not say what unit specifically used the 20mm varient though. Just that they flew F6F-5(N)s.
It uses the term "a modest number" of Hellcats had the 20mm armament, but gives no exact #. My "guess" would be several hundred served in the Pacific. Thats "modest" for the US Navy in 1945, considering the huge # of CAGs deployed by wars end.
For what its worth.
For the most part 6 .50s would have lit up anything in the IJN/IJAAF inventory when tracked and hosed by a Night Hellcat. The 20mm option probably did not increase the kill probability all that much.
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Originally posted by Flayed1
Same with the 9T but the IID jerks all over when you fire the guns, The YAK fires nice and smooth.
Imagine having 2 of those NS-37 cannons firing AP rounds.
If only there was some plane with that armament.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Imagine having 2 of those NS-37 cannons firing AP rounds.
If only there was some plane with that armament.
-Sik
I detect sarcasm:D
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Originally posted by Slash27
I detect sarcasm:D
]
hehe. I'm still living a dream where the IL-2M3 and Ju-87G make an appearance.
-Sik
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I agree those planes would be nice...
But with a good aim you don't need it...
Almost any plane can kill a tank if you line up on the back side of it.
When I see people straifing tanks they come in from all angles 37mm 20mm or 50 cal. You may track a tank but the only shure way to kill it is from the rear. Other than a good 1000 or 500 pounder droped on his head.
You may think you need this uber tank killer but you don't. Try picking your aiming point on your target you may actually kill something...