Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: nirvana on July 11, 2005, 10:31:01 PM
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When car designers take it upon themself to mechanize a car, why do they make the oil filter so hard to reach sometimes? Sure there are tools for the job but come on. Nissan Pathfinder I worked on today (only been working 3 days so far, first job:) ). Anyways, the oil filter is above the front axle which is covered by a plastic shield, like off road racers have, only theirs are metal. I can't imagine doing a Chevy S10:rolleyes: They must have no mechanical background whatsoever, and I understand there is a lot to put in some of the small spaces, but come on. At least make one of the most commonly changed parts more accessible. Wait, no, that's too logical. Tomorrow I get to drop the engine and transmission out of a Caddy, supposed to be REAL fun from what I hear from the more experiemnced mechanics.
Just wondering if anyone that designs vehicles knows if they think about common maintenance.
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They do. They just make it harder for Joe Schmoe to work on their own car so
1) Joe Schmoe doesn't screw up his own car fiddling with things he shouldn't or doesn't know how to
2) Makes more money because Joe Schmoe has to bring his car in for oil changes, tune-ups, etc.
Capitalism at work.
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Because they have no problem installing the filter on the assembly line.
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What year S10? I had a '96 S10 with a 4-banger, and changing the oil/filter was a snap.
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I'm with the troutmaster. I own a 96 S10 Blazer (87 olds died, a moment of silence please), got it done in 15 minutes for crapsake.
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ha ha ha ha ha :rofl :lol
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126471&highlight=ford
I feel your pain. I thought I had a post about the plugs but cant find it. They took me 5 hours...well actually 5 of them took me 2 hours the last one with the dry rotted boot attacted to it took me an additional 3.
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Originally posted by nirvana
When car designers take it upon themself to mechanize a car, why do they make the oil filter so hard to reach sometimes? Sure there are tools for the job but come on. Nissan Pathfinder I worked on today (only been working 3 days so far, first job:) ). Anyways, the oil filter is above the front axle which is covered by a plastic shield, like off road racers have, only theirs are metal. I can't imagine doing a Chevy S10:rolleyes: They must have no mechanical background whatsoever, and I understand there is a lot to put in some of the small spaces, but come on. At least make one of the most commonly changed parts more accessible. Wait, no, that's too logical. Tomorrow I get to drop the engine and transmission out of a Caddy, supposed to be REAL fun from what I hear from the more experiemnced mechanics.
Just wondering if anyone that designs vehicles knows if they think about common maintenance.
Welcome to the wonderful world of auto/aircraft maintenance. Some things just leave you scratching your head.
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I don't know what year S10 it was, just installed a starter on it which took 2 hours or so cause of the hoses and such in the way. Seems like cars are much more easier for doing oil changes. Heck '94 Saturn had a transmission fluid drain exactly like an oil drain, the filter looked like an oil filter was well.
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Ever heard of a skid plate? 4x4 does nasty things to unprotected components.
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wait till yah get to talk to the customers.
"oil... ?
filter?
..
..think it was changed just before i bought it 75,000 miles ago.
why? what's the problem.. whatcha do?
..it wuz running when I brought it in here.."
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I've seen and done worse kind of maintenance...changing starters and engine blocks on Dusters, Road Runners, Caravans, my personal favorite that tops the pain in the arse list: Manuevering a 440 block into my brother's Duster and being below it within in the engine compartment.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
I've seen and done worse kind of maintenance...changing starters and engine blocks on Dusters, Road Runners, Caravans, my personal favorite that tops the pain in the arse list: Manuevering a 440 block into my brother's Duster and being below it within in the engine compartment.
Sigma you noble and brave sir!!!@:P
Hi!!!
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Originally posted by rpm
Because they have no problem installing the filter on the assembly line.
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!
We Have a winner!!!
Had a car some time back that was side mounted.
Couldnt get at the back 3 sparkplugs fer nuth'n.
Asked a Mechanic and he told me they unbolted the motor mounts and lifted the engine up a tad.
To change spark plugs!
Had another car that I had to change the alternator on.
To do that you had to jack the car up take the passenger side front tire off and remove the wheel well.
To change an alternator
THAT was per manufacturers instructions.
Dontcha just love engineers.
God how I miss the old cars
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Originally posted by RTSigma
I've seen and done worse kind of maintenance...changing starters and engine blocks on Dusters, Road Runners, Caravans, my personal favorite that tops the pain in the arse list: Manuevering a 440 block into my brother's Duster and being below it within in the engine compartment.
LOL Changing the starters on the old Chevys with stock exhaust was always fun.
Made the mistake of thinking changing a Manifold doughnut was gonna be an easy task once too.
Once.
Went with headers ever after.
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Had another car that I had to change the alternator on. To do that you had to jack the car up take the passenger side front tire off and remove the wheel well.
To change an alternator .....
My wife drives q '97 saturn and this is exactly how you change the alternator and the thing just eats alternators. I've put 4 in since the warranty expired. Glad I bought a lifetime warranteed(part only) alternator. First time took me over an hour to do. Last time got out and in in less than 20 minutes. Coincidentally my friend had a 97 saturn and had the same trouble. I enjoyed his slackjawed look as I buzzed thru changing out his alternator. He now thinks I'm an Ace mechanic instead of your average Joe w/ a wrench.(silly rabbit)
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Ah thats nothing.
My Wifes Suzuki ( motorcycle ) You have to remove the fairing drain the coolant and remove the radiator to get at the spark plug on the front pot ( V Twin 650 ).
My Triumph is fine to work on until you need to change the Airfilter. Off comes left and right fairing panel ( got so fed up with this they are permanently removed hanging in garage now ) Then rear bodywork, then seat, petrol tank, battery, carburetors, and finaly the air box which then has to be unbolted to remove filter. Takes two hours if you know what you are doing.
Most other jobs are simple helped by quality fasteners etc, but that airfilter is a pig.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Steve
My wife drives q '97 saturn and this is exactly how you change the alternator and the thing just eats alternators. I've put 4 in since the warranty expired. Glad I bought a lifetime warranteed(part only) alternator. First time took me over an hour to do. Last time got out and in in less than 20 minutes. Coincidentally my friend had a 97 saturn and had the same trouble. I enjoyed his slackjawed look as I buzzed thru changing out his alternator. He now thinks I'm an Ace mechanic instead of your average Joe w/ a wrench.(silly rabbit)
Yup. thats the car!
My wifes was a 95 though I think.
Oh and ya need a breaker bar to ease the tension on the belt too
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VW bugs.
I could take the engine out of my bug in 5 minutes; I actually timed it with a stopwatch. This was outdoors, on a hill, with one jack and by myself. I could put it back in in 10 minutes (to complete running condition). I preferred to do some maintenance with the engine out because it was so easy.
eskimo
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To change the timing belt on a Civic you have to unmount the engine on the left side, jack it up using a floor jack and block of wood, remove the left wheel, undo the compressor and alternator belt,take off the distributor cap, remove all spark plugs, make piston 1 top dead center (this is real fun, you have to turn the crankshaft and find the highest point the cylinder his while the distributor is pointing to spark plug #1), take off the crankshaft pulley (this requires purchase of a 400lb/ft impact wrench), remove the valve cover (which means new seals and cleaning up areas where the seals are), and take off the upper and lower timing belt covers.
After doing all that, I find out the previous owners must have had the timing belt changed at 60K because it looked brand new.
-SW
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Old cars had problems too. One of my Uncles had a 63 Chevy with a 350 CI or so V-8. In order to change the rear most spark plugs you had to either partially pull the engine or drill holes through the fenders to get to them.
Designers don't care about how easy it is to work on cars. They don't work on them. They just assemble "parts" and try ot make a coherant construction with engineers maybe assisting.
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Had a '73 Gremlin that I learned automechanics on. It had the big inline six, and I didn't care if I screwed it up, so, without fear, I was free to tear it apart and put it back together. Everything under the hood was a cinch to work on, except one little, teeny tiny thing .... the freeze plugs. You practically had to remove the engine to replace a 10 cent freeze plug.
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Swapped the tranny in a '92 Corolla. Took 12 hours over 2 days. Had we known there was an access plate so you could pop off to unbolt the flywheel from the torque converter and cause the tranny to drop straight out the bottom of the car... probably would've cut the time in 1/2 at least...
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!
We Have a winner!!!
Had a car some time back that was side mounted.
Couldnt get at the back 3 sparkplugs fer nuth'n.
Asked a Mechanic and he told me they unbolted the motor mounts and lifted the engine up a tad.
To change spark plugs!
Had another car that I had to change the alternator on.
To do that you had to jack the car up take the passenger side front tire off and remove the wheel well.
To change an alternator
THAT was per manufacturers instructions.
Dontcha just love engineers.
God how I miss the old cars
Bah. Try changing the plugs on a Fiero GT (or just keep driving it until it catches fire, it might take less time). The rear placement, sideways mount V-6 in that car had to be taken OUT of the engine compartment to reach the rear bank of spark plugs. Of course then you have the cruddy fuel lines on the cars that made them a rolling fire hazard. But you could get to those without removing the engine. :)
Oh, and my 92 Chevy Corsica V6 you had to remove one motor mount and pry the engine sideways to change the alternator. I just charged the battery, and drove it sans alternator to the garage. hehe.
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Originally posted by indy007
Swapped the tranny in a '92 Corolla. Took 12 hours over 2 days. Had we known there was an access plate so you could pop off to unbolt the flywheel from the torque converter and cause the tranny to drop straight out the bottom of the car... probably would've cut the time in 1/2 at least...
Heheh...workin on cars builds character, don't it?;)
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Oh, and my 92 Chevy Corsica V6 you had to remove one motor mount and pry the engine sideways to change the alternator. I just charged the battery, and drove it sans alternator to the garage. hehe.
my 95 skylark is the same... the serpentine belt goes through an engine mount.
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Originally posted by RightF00T
Ever heard of a skid plate? 4x4 does nasty things to unprotected components.
Like even 1% of pathfinder owners ever takes theirs anywear near a 4X4 Trail.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Like even 1% of pathfinder owners ever takes theirs anywear near a 4X4 Trail.
naturally, that would mean leaving the city, driving more than 60mph, driving on a gravel road, then putting up with the laughter of teenagers in trucks, when she gets stuck in the first mud puddle on the trail.
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LOL you may be right GTO, but it doesn't change the fact that 4x4 models are usually heavily armored.
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Is that plastic gonna even stop something? Half inch cheap stuff held on by a couple bolts.
Like you guys were saying, they don't have to build them, or repair them, so why make it easy? cram everything you need to run it in the car and let it go. It's a messed up world and someone is gonna get hurt. You can't ask factory engineers or mechanics anything cause they get paid 2-3 times what a normal shop does, so they can lift engines out just for a few spark plugs.
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The rear placement, sideways mount V-6 in that car had to be taken OUT of the engine compartment to reach the rear bank of spark plugs.
Nope. Changed those on 2 different fieros... the back ones are doable w/ engine in place.
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Guess not nirvana lol...S-plates are usually metal.
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Originally posted by Steve
Nope. Changed those on 2 different fieros... the back ones are doable w/ engine in place.
Yeah I have too, just took the engine compartment cover off, made it was easier.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
[B
Oh, and my 92 Chevy Corsica V6 you had to remove one motor mount and pry the engine sideways to change the alternator. I just charged the battery, and drove it sans alternator to the garage. hehe. [/B]
I just retired my 93 corsica last week. That was another car you needed to disconnect the motor mounts on to change the back bank of sparkplugs. And I had that same experience with the alternator, too.
Other than that, though, that car was very reliable and peppy for 160K miles. I absolutely dread working on anything on her replacement--the Grand Prix has a HUGE injector assembly blocking all access to anything under the hood.
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I wasnt complaining about the Corsica. I put over 200k on that car and it was still running fine when I got rid of it. It had an overheating problem that I never could completely fix, but as long as you drove it properly and didnt mind using the heat sometimes if it started getting too warm, it was liveable. I drove that car through close to a dozen states with never a breakdown.
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Originally posted by Steve
Nope. Changed those on 2 different fieros... the back ones are doable w/ engine in place.
Huh. I feel sorry for the guys at the dealership then, cause they took the dang engine out to replace the plugs and wires. Didnt cost anything, it was a warranty issue, so I dont know why they woulda made it up. Only made more work for them.
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Originally posted by rshubert
I just retired my 93 corsica last week. That was another car you needed to disconnect the motor mounts on to change the back bank of sparkplugs. And I had that same experience with the alternator, too.
And theres the other Car. 88 Corsica to be exact
When my wife got Pregnant with my son she decided her camaro wasnt gonna be good enough to haul a baby around in so she traded it in on a corsica.
God I hated that car. Nuth'n but aggrivation with it. Literally 10 miles after the warranty was out the oil pump went. And this was on a acar she brought to the dealer religiously for maintanance.
since the warranty was out they werent going to fix it.
after about a half hour on the phone arguing with them that an oil pump should never die on a vehicle less then 4 years old and them telling me the warranty was out I finally gave them the option of fixing the car or I was gonna "Drive it through the dealership window"
they decided to fix the car for free.
LOL 100% true story
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Bought the wifey a lil ford escort wagon back in the eighties.. a 'dealer demo' with 1,200 miles on it. Had an upgraded non-ford stereo in it. A week after I picked it up the stero died.. sounded like a nuke hit the radio station.. squealing waves of static.
Took it back to the dealer, they told me it was not a ford part, and was not covered under the warranty. Annoyed to beat the band, I told 'em to change the oil and filter. Then drove around the corner and took the drain plug out and ran it till the engine smoked.. about 6 miles. Called 'em up, had it towed in and a new engine put in it... all under warranty.
When I went in to pick it up I kindly inquired as to the status on the stereo.. "is it changed yet?" When they said 'no' I politely asked if they'd like to change engines in the damn thing every week. They replaced the stereo.