Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 13, 2005, 11:34:15 AM
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I've seen all the reports of the Muslim community speaking out about fearing a backlash, and demanding protection from a backlash. I just read a report about a Pakistani being beaten to death by some juveniles. It may indeed have been an anti Muslim hate crime.
What I HAVE NOT READ is any reports of the Muslim community renouncing/denouncing those responsible, and turning in anyone they know who might have been involved.
So, what HAS the British Muslim community been saying and doing in Britain, besides demanding protection and claiming it's all a plot by Bush, Blair, the CIA, and MI6?
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The leaders of the faith stood with the leaders of all the others and denounced the actions of those they called criminals.
At the grass roots level not a lot. The day after a computer engineer at my office base came to install our network and told me it was all a MOSSAD plot and there was no way Muslims could have done it. This is a guy in his 30's quite sound in many ways pleasent not a radical nutcase but Muslim. Boy did he piss me off.
Its that total denial that anyone of his faith could actualy do such a thing. Total bollox. The problem is that these guys appear to want to blame everyone else rather than face up to the reality that there are nutters in any community theirs included.
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I hate to say I told ya so......
Um.....Actually, no I don't. Told ya so.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
What I HAVE NOT READ is any reports of the Muslim community renouncing/denouncing those responsible, and turning in anyone they know who might have been involved.
So, what HAS the British Muslim community been saying and doing in Britain, besides demanding protection and claiming it's all a plot by Bush, Blair, the CIA, and MI6?
I think this is what you are looking for: -
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13386346,00.html
"We expressed to the Prime Minister that all the communities, the Muslim communities, are in deep shock.
"We are deeply shocked that these are home-grown bombers, and the vast majority of the Muslim community condemn these barbaric attacks.
"We told the Prime Minister that the community will be hoping to extend full co-operation to find the mastermind behind these attacks.
"The Prime Minister endorsed that support from the moderate and liberal Muslims and said we had to deal with it together."
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Yeah, I hadn't found anything like that yet, but I hadn't been looking too long.
Will be interesting to see if there is action on the part of the community, or only empty rhetoric.
They claim the acts are the work of the minority. If so, then the majority should use whatever means necessary to remove that minority from its midst.
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I'd like to place one vote for empty rhetoric please.
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I have feeling that like Skydancer's Engineer there will be mostly denial. The standard response is that everything is a Mossad plot and in any case "Even though their methods are wrong. The cause is just". Ambivalence.
When the IRA were bombing trains in London in the Eighties. We had some of the same mentality. It infuriated me. In part because half my family lived in London at the time and travelled on those trains and in part because it was plain wrong.
What I think will happen is that quietly, moderate British Muslims will begin to call the police and tip them off when they hear of someone shooting his mouth off or acting strangely. Quite simply, the moderates know that their lives will become intolerable if they shelter the extremists. They have nowhere to go after all for the most part. In the end, extremism will mostly damage their own community.
I'm quite sure that one or two of the killers friends and acquaintences noticed a change in their behaviour and attitudes which they now recognise in hindsight. Next time they see it. They may pick up phone and make that call.
British tolerance only goes so far. Ask any Irishman who lived and worked in England during the IRA's terror campaign. It wasn't very common but at times you could be made to feel very uncomfortable particularly after some outrage. Even if you were anti IRA like me. You would feel a degree of guilt.
Comments like bombing Dublin in revenge or rounding up all the Irish and sending them home were common at the time. Similar comments in relation to Muslims are probably been made right now. I've seen some on this forum.
In fact it's implicit in Virgil Hilts first post. Admittedly Virgil is not British.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
In fact it's implicit in Virgil Hilts first post. Admittedly Virgil is not British.
I don't believe Virgil is espousing that we round up all the muslims. More that we all pay attention to what is being said and preached in the mosques and in these communities.
I am sorry if I offend some Civil-Libertatians but it is long past time that we infiltrated these "communities" and find the bad guys.
These young men probably would not have done what they did if it had not been for some of the "leadership" of their communities.
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I think banning US personnel stationed here from traveling to London after last thursdays bombings must count as the worst public relations gaffe since Kennedy senior said Hitler was 'ok'.
Times like this reminds me we dont need anybody.
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Quite possibly true.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts Yeah, I hadn't found anything like that yet, but I hadn't been looking too long.
Will be interesting to see if there is action on the part of the community, or only empty rhetoric.
They claim the acts are the work of the minority. If so, then the majority should use whatever means necessary to remove that minority from its midst.
I think this sentence is what cpxxx might be talking about. I could be wrong though Virgil.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Chortle
I think banning US personnel stationed here from traveling to London after last thursdays bombings must count as the worst public relations gaffe since Kennedy senior said Hitler was 'ok'.
Times like this reminds me we dont need anybody.
Hey sutch tensions are here for last 5 years.
But its not quite about banning, but about Visa restrictions. A lot of people would like to see Visa in US passports because most of US citizens overhere cause troubles. They are not reliable in payments, they often break contracts w/o proper ending and so on.
Btw Hitler was fine, when he were building highways all around Germany :D
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I think this sentence is what cpxxx might be talking about. I could be wrong though Virgil.
Karaya
No, actually, he claimed it to be in my FIRST post.
Originally posted by cpxxx
Comments like bombing Dublin in revenge or rounding up all the Irish and sending them home were common at the time. Similar comments in relation to Muslims are probably been made right now. I've seen some on this forum.
In fact it's implicit in Virgil Hilts first post. Admittedly Virgil is not British.
He made a baseless rash assumption without any real knowledge of what he was talking about.
Take the following IN CONTEXT:
Will be interesting to see if there is action on the part of the community, or only empty rhetoric.
They claim the acts are the work of the minority. If so, then the majority should use whatever means necessary to remove that minority from its midst.
I suppose I should have specifically stated the MUSLIM community and the Muslim majority. The jist of the idea was that the Muslim community MUST take responsibility for those that they allow in their community and allow to operate terrorist cells in said community. For the Muslims to cry out about "backlash" and "Islamophobic acts" while allowing those who commit terrorist acts to live and operate openly in their community is beyond ridiculous. It can also no longer be tolerated. If they cannot or will not police their community themselves, then they should expect to be treated the same as the lawless psychopaths they share their community with.
The first post mentions NOTHING about revenge, or rounding anyone up. First post below:
Originally posted by Hilts
I've seen all the reports of the Muslim community speaking out about fearing a backlash, and demanding protection from a backlash. I just read a report about a Pakistani being beaten to death by some juveniles. It may indeed have been an anti Muslim hate crime.
What I HAVE NOT READ is any reports of the Muslim community renouncing/denouncing those responsible, and turning in anyone they know who might have been involved.
So, what HAS the British Muslim community been saying and doing in Britain, besides demanding protection and claiming it's all a plot by Bush, Blair, the CIA, and MI6?
[/B]
Anything in there about revenge or rounding anyone up?
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Damm I've been deleted.
It was implicit in the first post. Explicit in this line in the second as Masherbraun noted and in the other thread.
If so, then the majority should use whatever means necessary to remove that minority from its midst.
Respectfully CPXXX
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are lada and minus the same guy?
lazs
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I think banning US personnel stationed here from traveling to London after last thursdays bombings must count as the worst public relations gaffe since Kennedy senior said Hitler was 'ok'.
I saw a nice picture on a blog today which said: Britain raises it's alert level to a hot cup of tea.
Had a great day at the office today, we marched out at ten to twelve and observed the silence outside Aldgate Tube station. The feeling of defiance was palpable. All this has done is to have united London.
At Brick Lane, a large muslim community about a quarter of a mile from where I was, muslims stood outside observing the silence like everyone else. From what I've seen on the TV over here, there has been universal condemnation from all quarters of muslim society about what has happened. In Leeds, muslim children held up banners saying 'not in my name'. Today during the vigil at Trafalgar square a muslim community leader said that moderate muslims were not doing enough to denounce what had happened and that they should do more.
My firm belief is that the vast majority of people, regardless of their creed are opposed to the death of innocents. What tends to dilute their message is that they will oppose it and add the rider: 'but...do you know how many people have been killed by western policy?'
This may or may not be a fair point, but they need to get rid of the 'but' and we need to examine our foreign policy more closely if this madness is to stop.
Ravs
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Actualy I feel sorry for both the victims of the bombings their families, and the families of the bombers. Those blind hate filled fools have ruined their own families and community's lives too. sensless isn't enough to describe such evil stupidity.
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I think I'd prefer to deal with evil people rather than deluded people...at least evil people have a sense of rationale.
The deluded don't.
I feel only pity for them, their wasted lives which they could have used to relieved human suffering instead of creating it.
Ravs
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Originally posted by lazs2
are lada and minus the same guy?
lazs
lol why do you think
lada is same guy like orel and same nationality like minus.
However minus live in france and i didnt hear from him for some 3 years.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
The leaders of the faith stood with the leaders of all the others and denounced the actions of those they called criminals.
At the grass roots level not a lot. The day after a computer engineer at my office base came to install our network and told me it was all a MOSSAD plot and there was no way Muslims could have done it. This is a guy in his 30's quite sound in many ways pleasent not a radical nutcase but Muslim. Boy did he piss me off.
Its that total denial that anyone of his faith could actualy do such a thing. Total bollox. The problem is that these guys appear to want to blame everyone else rather than face up to the reality that there are nutters in any community theirs included.
Its the same with any religion, ask a christian about the nutters in serbia or the ones that blow up people in abortion clinics and the response you usually get is a) "christians wouldn't do that" or b) they aren "real" christians.
You don't have to look far to find examples of this ;)
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I was reading some article that said the Muslim population, specifically in Britain, rebels by becoming radically Islamic. They said juveniles do this mostly. So the connection I got was:
Western kids get tattoos to rebel-Radicals blow themselves up
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Good point Vulcan.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
Damm I've been deleted.
It was implicit in the first post. Explicit in this line in the second as Masherbraun noted and in the other thread.
Respectfully CPXXX
WRONG. The meaning of that statement, taken in context with the rest of what was there, is that the Muslim community must police itself and remove from itself the minority that it claims is the problem. Simply denouncing their actions while allowing them to operate in their midst openly or otherwise, is merely paying "lip service" to their declaration that Islam is not violent.
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I guess my point is that there are a lot of these suicide muslim fanatics willing to kill as many infidels as they can.
What they want is misery for everyone... if they get what they want then anyone not a fanatical muslim will die and all the other muslims will be simply opressed... If they don't get what they want...
They will kill people till they do.
there is no way to appease them that does not involve more killing and/or oppression.
If we start getting a lot of catholic or baptist or budist suicide bombers I say we kill them too.
If that happens I say we kill every catholic that shows up at a pro suicide bomber rally.
lazs
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I was slightly OTT in my last post and I'm sorry. There have been many good sensible posts in this thread, didn't see the ones that were deleted.
My point is that we need to make concessions for times like these, not just attend the rallies or watch them on the news otherwise we'll all have bar codes from birth. There have been bomb scares to the north of me which freck up the buses and demonstrations against the bombings to the south, which coincedently freck up the buses.
Everyone condemns the bombings but ask some to keep their craptacular possessions with them on public transport to avoid unnecessary delays and it seems similar to defecating on their doorstep.
Life goes on but for gawds sake, be responsible or it'll be electric battons for all before we retire.
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I've been ruminating all day on the issues and outcomes of what happened and I've come to the conclusion that the best way for the country as a whole to deal with this is not only to go on as normal but to deliberately go out and party, use public transport, take buses, tubes, planes, trains and boats, sit in parks, eat ice cream, go to football, dance in public and basically anything else to show these murdering imbeciles that whatever you throw at us, it isn't enough.
It's not enough to get the tolerant British people to tear ourselves apart and create a race or culture war by looking for scapegoats,
It's not enough to get the sensible and stoic British people to limit our own freedoms and behaviour to make ourselves "secure",
It's not enough to dent, harm or intimidate the greatest country in the world.
And you know what? Because you've tried to have a go at us , I am going to retaliate in the best, most effective way I know how.
I'm going to go out with my mates this weekend and have a good drink, a good time and very possibly, some unhealthy food. Because doing what we want, when we want, how we want is what despite what you've done makes us and always will make us better than you.
Because Whatever you've got - it isn't enough.